Iraq refiles case in U.S. court over disputed Kurdish crude cargo

[kenman31]

 by Thomson Reuters

HOUSTON, Sept 5 (Reuters) - Iraq has refiled a suit in U.S. court in a bid to gain control of some 1 million barrels of disputed Kurdish crude oil on a tanker near Texas, days after the court said it lacked jurisdiction to have the cargo seized but that it could hear arguments about who is the oil's rightful owner.

The United Kalavrvta tanker, carrying about $100 million worth of Kurdish crude, has been stationed near Texas since late July, as the central government of Iraq wages a legal battle against Iraqi Kurdistan over who has the sole right to export crude.

U.S. District Court Judge Gray Miller had invited Iraq to replead the case. (Reporting By Terry Wade)

http://research.tdwaterhouse.ca/research/public/Markets/NewsArticle/1314-L1N0R61NX-1

 

 

[dontlop]

Looks like they want to look at the Kurds hand before this is settled in Iraqi Supreme Court

Will the Kurds just drive away with the oil , or will they prove they own the oil

When the Constitution says it belongs to all Iraqis

Who handles the affairs of all Iraqis ?

The central govt ?

Or the Kurds ?

I guess there's a show down in Texas

[billio0]

The Kurds handle their oil.

 

It's as simple as that.

 

Billio0

[dontlop]

It's not the Kurds oil

You can't understand English ?

Iraq’s Oil Ministry has now revised its complaint, citing different statutes to obtain a new arrest warrant aimed at preventing the Kurdistan Regional Government, or KRG, from selling the cargo in the U.S. Iraq now cites the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act and state law governing stolen property

[dontlop]

Chapter 812

THEFT, ROBBERY, AND RELATED CRIMES

View Entire Chapter

812.019 Dealing in stolen property.—

(1) Any person who traffics in, or endeavors to traffic in, property that he or she knows or should know was stolen shall be guilty of a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in ss. 775.082, 775.083, and 775.084.

(2) Any person who initiates, organizes, plans, finances, directs, manages, or supervises the theft of property and traffics in such stolen property shall be guilty of a felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in ss. 775.082, 775.083, and 775.084.

All the Kurds got to do is produce the title of ownership for the oil

They can get one of those from the central govt of Iraq

Oh

Wait

They are the ones asking for it from the Kurds m

I guess that's not going to happen

I sure am glad this new guy is taking over , things sure are different now

[dontlop]

The world is warned and the us govt has warned everyone not to buy the Kurdish oil

They know who owns the oil in Iraq and it's not the Kurds

The federal govt of Iraq sets the international trade policy in Iraq

The Kurds dream is over and its time to pay the piper

Can't ya see how this is unfolding

Or do ya got your blinders on?

[jcfrag]

It is the Kurds. Where I come from possession is 9/10ths the law. If it belongs to Iraq why don't they come and get it. Oh wait a minute, those are the guys that handed the guns over to the ISIS and ran like hell.... They should work with Kurds to get this crap settled and stop the BS...

Edited September 6, 2014 by jcfrag

[dontlop]

Another with his blinders on

And proving they are on

That's the mentality

The Kurds been getting their asssses kicked for the last 60 years in Iraq, Iran, turkey, and Syria

There is a reason for it

They had a short break while the us troops were there but those days are over

Your statement about Iraq throwing its weapons down and running away shows you know very little about what's going on in Iraq

The Sunnis threw there weapons down or just pulled a black mask over their heads

The Iraqis in Baghdad did not throw down their weapons and run away

There's 7 general facing the death penalty for ordering them to defect in Sunni areas of Iraq

So you say the Iraqis ran away

I see the Kurds crying for air support from the Iraqis and crying for money and crying for arms

They are nothing without Baghdad

And you think Baghdad should stoop down to their level

Their days of stealing Iraqi oil are coming to an end

Its the Kurds who need to work with Baghdad not the other way around

They are in Iraq

There's no country of Kurdistan

Not will there be

Turkey is against it

Syria is against it

Iran is against it

Iraq is against it

They are surrounded

It's over they are a thorn in Iraqs side that's about to be pulled out

Possession is 9/10ths of the law

What law is that ?

That is bs too

Nothing true about that statement

If I steal your money you think the law says its mine now ?

Get real

You tell those boys to bring the oil up into Texas and unload it

Then when it's unloaded and want paid they will just say its our oil now we own it , possession is 9/10ths of the law now GIT out of here

Then what ?

[jcfrag]

Another with his blinders on

And proving they are on

That's the mentality

The Kurds been getting their asssses kicked for the last 60 years in Iraq, Iran, turkey, and Syria

There is a reason for it

They had a short break while the us troops were there but those days are over

Your statement about Iraq throwing its weapons down and running away shows you know very little about what's going on in Iraq

The Sunnis threw there weapons down or just pulled a black mask over their heads

The Iraqis in Baghdad did not throw down their weapons and run away

There's 7 general facing the death penalty for ordering them to defect in Sunni areas of Iraq

So you say the Iraqis ran away

I see the Kurds crying for air support from the Iraqis and crying for money and crying for arms

They are nothing without Baghdad

And you think Baghdad should stoop down to their level

Their days of stealing Iraqi oil are coming to an end

Its the Kurds who need to work with Baghdad not the other way around

They are in Iraq

There's no country of Kurdistan

Not will there be

Turkey is against it

Syria is against it

Iran is against it

Iraq is against it

They are surrounded

It's over they are a thorn in Iraqs side that's about to be pulled out

Possession is 9/10ths of the law

What law is that ?

That is bs too

Nothing true about that statement

If I steal your money you think the law says its mine now ?

Get real

You tell those boys to bring the oil up into Texas and unload it

Then when it's unloaded and want paid they will just say its our oil now we own it , possession is 9/10ths of the law now GIT out of here

Then what ?

You can type like there is no tomorrow, but where's your head been???

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0GF1PY20140815?irpc=932

Just saying........

[sandfly]

THANKS

[billio0]

Hello again dontlop.

 

It's so comforting to see you get so riled up over something that's none of your business.

 

You asked if I understand English.

 

Whose language is English?

 

Is it yours, or does it belong to the English?

 

More to the point of your little diatribes over the Kurds and the oil they own; yes own!

 

If you grow tomatoes on your property, assuming you are a property owner, and one day I come to you and say I want your tomatoes for everyone to share, you will probably tell me to get lost, or something far worse. But, if I present you with a deal you can't refuse such as paying you a fair share for your tomatoes, which is more than you get for them that you don't eat or sell or can/preserve for the future, you will probably consider my offer, and maybe even consent to it.

 

And, suppose you give me your tomatoes, but I keep promising you the payment yet never come up with it. Meanwhile, your family is starving now because you depended upon that payment for your tomatoes, and it hasn't come; just promises and more promises.

 

Well, it doesn't take a genius to figure out who owns the tomatoes; it's you, and not me.

 

So, is it a stretch to figure out that the Kurds are now laying claim to their oil, because the country of Iraq that they thought they were a part of has proven that they are not so equally treated or thought of after all?

 

Go figure!

 

Billio0

[Furbrain]

I have been reading the arguments on this subject for days and I have to tell you guys and galls, I side with dontLop on this one.

The arguments for the KRG owning the oil in this thread have come from the cultural ideas of the U.S.

For example "ownership is 9/10 the law" and Billio's tomato scenario.

They are not the United States and there are many countries where thr resources of the country are owned by the government. As anti- capitalist and appalling as that sounds, it is still the reality.

The arguments of the Kurds having to fight ISIS are irrelevant. reports of the Iraqi army running and leaving weapons behind are irrelevant.

I will agree the Kurds have gotten the short end of this stick for a long time but if Iraq is to function properly there needs to be rule of law. There is a new PM and shortly a new govrement - give them a chance.

Yes, the central government should start paying KRG the money they owe them minus the oil they STOLE to support themselves.

[dontlop]

Thanks

These guys don't want any one to know the truth until the Kurds finally admit it

Then they make the story about dontlop instead of the facts in the matter

There are some crazy people hangin around so use your best judgement

The pretending has to stop somewhere

Yes, the central government should start paying KRG the money they owe them minus the oil they STOLE to support themselves

Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/186044-iraq-refiles-case-in-us-court-over-disputed-kurdish-crude-cargo/#ixzz3CXqIHwIx

Right that's the central govts claims as why the Kurds didn't get the 17% they were supposed to get

Because the Kurds didn't pay their bills to the contractors they hired to develop the oil fields

So the central govt paid them and deducted it from the 17%

They would be way better off letting the govt handle the oil contracts and let the govt pay

The Kurds objective is to break away from Iraq and form their own country

But that takes a civil war

They have to be able to fund a civil war

So if the Kurds can establish an income , if the Kurds can get people to buy the stolen oil , they can finance a war , the war they still would have to win before they actually did steal Iraqi territory and its oil

It sounds harsh

Because it is harsh

If the Kurds just took that 17% and shut their mouths and get into something else to support themselves

Like agriculture or manufacturing cars , or something

They could have a peaceful life , and they could support the country of Iraqs army and govt

They can become lawyers and use the rule if law and the constitution to change Iraq

But they don't care about Iraq , they care about having their own sovereign. Nation

The problem is no one else wants that because south eastern turkey is loaded with Kurds too

A sovereign nation can buy arms and support a take over in southern tirkey next

And the same goes for north west Iran it to is loaded with Kurds

They can't set that precident that people can just devide up the country's they live In if they want to

It will not happen

And in the mean time it's the Kurdish people who will suffer because of the greedy Kurdish polititions

[dontlop]

The statement also calls on all member states to take “necessary measures” to stop “nationals, entities and individuals” from engaging in transactions linked to non-state actors in the oil industry in Syria.

The Russia-backed statement will be discussed in the coming days at the Security Council. If it is adopted it will be less binding than a resolution, but will still send out a strong message to those trading oil with the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) and the al-Nusra Front in Syria and Iraq.

Russia’s Permanent Ambassador to the UN, Vitaly Churkin, told reporters that one of the main sources of finance for terrorists in the Middle East was the sale of oil to “various countries” through intermediaries.

“We know that terrorist organizations are doing illegal oil trading from the territories of both Syria and Iraq,” he said. Commenting on the Security Council meeting on Monday, Churkin said the US had pushed for the wording to be changed in the statement.

“We had bilateral negotiations with the United States and the American delegation did everything they could to dilute the wording of the document. We would have preferred a much stronger statement,” said the diplomat.

The UN Security Council statement comes after ISIS militants overran four small oilfields in northern Iraq last month. Reports have emerged that after taking control of the facilities, ISIS militants began sending the crude oil over to neighboring Syria to be processed and then sold.

The militant Sunni organization then uses the revenues from the oil sales to finance the newly-formed Islamic State, which spans the border region between Syria and northern Iraq. ISIS began seizing vast swathes of northern Iraq last month, starting with the country’s second-largest city, Mosul.

The group has promised to take the fight to Baghdad and has accused Shiite Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki of discriminating against Iraq’s Sunni minority

[dontlop]

The Kurds need to understand the importance of a sovereign nation

And what protections they get from the United Nations

They can't take over Iraq by force

It won't happen

The central govt does have the right to send military forces into any part of its country

And the first bit of resistance they get out of any one , its on

The Kurdistan provinces fall within the Iraqi borders

The only way for the Kurds to successfully achieve any thing is thru the courts

That's it

They need to become lawyers

Not sharp shooters

The laws are written already

You can't change them any other way then diplomatically

Or by force like the USA did

So if its a war

Every one is looking for in Iraq

Then cheer them on

Go Kurds go war in Iraq

[ezrapound]

The Kurds need to understand the importance of a sovereign nation

And what protections they get from the United Nations

They can't take over Iraq by force

It won't happen

The central govt does have the right to send military forces into any part of its country

And the first bit of resistance they get out of any one , its on

The Kurdistan provinces fall within the Iraqi borders

The only way for the Kurds to successfully achieve any thing is thru the courts

That's it

They need to become lawyers

Not sharp shooters

The laws are written already

You can't change them any other way then diplomatically

Or by force like the USA did

So if its a war

Every one is looking for in Iraq

Then cheer them on

Go Kurds go war in Iraq

Don'tlop I certainly mean you no disrespect whatsoever, but I need to point out that perhaps you go a little too over the top. Seems you have staunch opinions about just about every post on this site, which is fine except that after awhile it get's a bit old. At times I have had to wonder if I was reading you or Med! Again, no disrespect, but a suggestion to just tone it down a bit. No need to dominate every post here and disagree with a LOT of good folks. You are entitled to your opinion and so is everyone else, but you come across as needing to be the absolute top dog and last word. I used to read everything you posted, but lately it just isn't worth it. Hope you are not offended...I meant none.

[Indraman]

Hello again dontlop.

 

It's so comforting to see you get so riled up over something that's none of your business.

 

You asked if I understand English.

 

Whose language is English?

 

Is it yours, or does it belong to the English?

 

More to the point of your little diatribes over the Kurds and the oil they own; yes own!

 

If you grow tomatoes on your property, assuming you are a property owner, and one day I come to you and say I want your tomatoes for everyone to share, you will probably tell me to get lost, or something far worse. But, if I present you with a deal you can't refuse such as paying you a fair share for your tomatoes, which is more than you get for them that you don't eat or sell or can/preserve for the future, you will probably consider my offer, and maybe even consent to it.

 

And, suppose you give me your tomatoes, but I keep promising you the payment yet never come up with it. Meanwhile, your family is starving now because you depended upon that payment for your tomatoes, and it hasn't come; just promises and more promises.

 

Well, it doesn't take a genius to figure out who owns the tomatoes; it's you, and not me.

 

So, is it a stretch to figure out that the Kurds are now laying claim to their oil, because the country of Iraq that they thought they were a part of has proven that they are not so equally treated or thought of after all?

 

Go figure!

 

Billio0

This is by far the best analogy to the Kurdish-Baghdad oil relationship that I can think of. When the central government has broken ever promise for a meaningful and lasting relationship with one of its provinces and this results in the withholding of funds and services necessary for the survival of said province, than the province can take whatever actions are necessary for the survival of its citizens. Maliki is a dictator and has treated the Kurds like a father would treat his adopted child that he doesn't want to take care of, but wants the welfare payment to come in any case.

 

Indy

[Furbrain]

Correction Indraman - Maliki WAS a dictator.

The Kurds may or may not have stole the oil under duress but they still stole it.

The time to come to the table to negotiate is now since there is a new government. If they continue stealing and blaming the need to steal on Maliki all they will do is make enemies with the new government. Then nothing gets settled.

[dontlop]

The duress the Kurds create so they can steal the oil as the cure for the duress they themselves are responsible for

I can see the cure to this type of duress in the future , a chunk of led in their head

The Kurds been stealing oil since 2003

Maliki was a dictator

Ah ha ha ha ha

Sorry

Parliment kept that from happening

Not sure about the next guy though

He looks like he will be the next dictator

There is no choice in that hell hole with all those idiots running around

Heck they have even recruited a few from here

Some people love fantasy

They love the bs , they pass it around

Hide the truth

Ya the Kurds are just out there and gaining steam

Man they are so smart

There ya go , for the fantasy boys

Edited September 6, 2014 by dontlop

[billio0]

I shall try once more to provide a bit of clarity for the benefit of both dontlop and furbrain. In doing so I have no ax to grind, nor do I need to be right. I do care about each member's opinion here, and especially when I disagree with it.

 

I begin with the following analogy:

 

The DinarVets website and forums are owned and operated by a Dictator. His name is Adam Montana. He decides what the format shall be here, and what will be allowed and what won't by its members. Thus, Adam Montana IS the LAW here, and those who wish to object to the policies and principles he has established will in very short order disappear from here forever.

 

In other words, they shall be eliminated by force!

 

I have witnessed this occur on numerous occasions in the past, and over time the necessity to do so has diminished exponentially. That is because, as Dictator, Adam Montana is the sole authority to decide who stays and who goes, and that is also why you who have been here any length of time have also witnessed the advent and emergence of many of the now so-called Gurus we must put up with. They were once members here, and for whatever reason got their feelings hurt because they couldn't get their way here, and were either kicked out, or left with their "tails between their legs," to quote an oft-used phrase.

 

Now on to the Kurds.

 

They are a people united by blood, beliefs, and geography. They occupy several neighboring countries including Iraq, Syria, and Turkey, but what is most important to this discussion is that THEY ARE UNITED. They have learned from experience to stick together as a people in order to survive and prosper in spite of the opposition received from those outsiders who constantly attempt to impose their will upon them, and usually by force. They have formed a functioning self-government, a military, and society.

 

They have gained the respect of many of the world's leaders in government and industry for their resourcefulness and integrity, and over time have been charged with conducting the business of commerce with regard to the one resource they have complete access to on the lands they occupy: oil. Multinational corporations have engaged them contractually to provide oil or develop the oil fields because of their ability to operate in a reciprocal and dependable manner devoid of corruption, strife, or interruptions of supply.

 

In other words, while others are making war, committing violence, stealing from each other, and creating and perpetuating chaos of one kind or another, the Kurds are going about the business of trying to conduct themselves as responsible citizens and partners of the world community.

 

The fact that they agreed in principle to join with Iraq and become a legitimate part of it in every aspect has proven to be less than beneficial to the Kurds to-date. Regardless of the reasons for this, unless and until they are convinced that past inequities shall be addressed and corrected, they have little incentive to participate in good faith with Iraq again. In other words, the proof is on Iraq to demonstrate to the Kurds, not with more words and so-called laws that are not binding, but with actual concrete and tangible changes.

 

Meanwhile, other countries of the world are rallying to the aid of the Kurds with resources, weapons, and intel, as they mount an effective effort to rid their territories of the encroachers; ISIS. This is obviously an embarrassment to the central government of Iraq, but that is not the fault of the Kurds. The GOI must do its part to perform as a functioning and effective government in order to earn the respect of the greater world community of nations, which the Kurds have obviously already achieved.

 

For the GOI to act like spoiled brats by complaining that the Kurds are in violation of laws that pertain to the oil in the ground is similar to those folks who treat the Bible like Golden Corral, which is to say they think it is a smorgasbord, to pick and choose those items they like, and avoid those they don't like.

 

Well, it just ain't how it works, and I applaud the Kurds for their acumen. At least they're getting something positive accomplished!

 

Whether either of you, furbrain and dontlop, agrees with my assessment of the situation above, or not, doesn't really matter to me actually. I am almost certain that you would find no problem with how the United States of America was formed either, by taking the lands of the peoples who occupied it before there was a United States of America.

 

Of course, after that was done, then the laws you hold so dearly followed, and according to you, nothing is more important than keeping those laws.

 

Billio0

Edited September 6, 2014 by billio0

[dontlop]

The Kurds will again as usual end up getting their rears kicked and cut out of the Iraqi economy

The USA will not be back to save them

No more invasions

They think they are in charge of something

they gave them an inch and they want a mile

Their not smart enough

The Kurds will be cut out of the Iraq economy as they were before it's just a matter of time for due process to take hold

They threw away their only chance they had

The Arabs don't like them

It's that easy

No one does

I do

They could move to the USA

Wouldn't bother me

But if they try to take over I would take them out

Just like turkey , Iran , Iraq, and Syria

They take turns bombing the Kurds and shooting them

[dontlop]

Iraq Files New Complaint Against Kurdish Oil Exports

Baghdad Claims Kurds' Sales of Iraqi Crude are Illegal

An oil tanker, shown here off the coast of Scotland, is currently parked off Texas with a disputed shipment of crude oil from Kurdistan. Photo: Reuters

By SARAH KENT

Iraq's oil ministry refiled a complaint in a U.S. court asking American authorities to seize a cargo of Kurdish oil waiting off the coast of Texas, the latest maneuver by Baghdad to stanch slowly growing volumes of Kurdish crude exports.

The new request, filed late Thursday in U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Texas, Galveston Division, in Houston, amends an earlier complaint asking for U.S. law enforcement to seize about one million barrels of crude, worth about $100 million, if the tanker attempts to discharge the oil at Galveston. It is one of several tankers that have left laden with oil pumped from Kurdistan, a mostly autonomous enclave of northern Iraq.

Baghdad says the exports are illegal, claiming all foreign sales of Iraqi crude must go through the central government's state marketing group. Amid a standoff between the central Iraqi government and the Kurdistan Regional Government, or KRG, Baghdad has also threatened to take legal action against any potential buyers.

Baghdad secured an order from the same court in July to seize the shipment should it come ashore. But last month, the court overruled the order on technical grounds related to jurisdiction after it was contested by the KRG.

The KRG has 21 days to respond to the new suit to avoid a default judgment against it by the court. A KRG official said Friday there wasn't a legal basis for Baghdad's claims. The tanker remains parked off the coast of Texas.

Earlier this year, landlocked Kurdistan started shipping its crude via pipeline to Ceyhan, Turkey, on the Mediterranean Sea. Before that, it sold a limited amount of crude to overseas buyers via trucks.

According to Turkey's energy minister, the KRG has exported 10 million barrels of oil on 13 tankers via Ceyhan. At least one of these tankers has successfully offloaded its crude to a buyer in Israel. Hungarian oil and gas company MOL Group said in August it had taken delivery of about 600,000 barrels of Kurdish crude at the Croatian port of Omisalj.

But the fate of most of the Kurdish oil so far exported by ship remains uncertain. The first tanker to set sail with Kurdish crude appears still to be off the shore of Morocco, where it hasn't yet been able to offload its cargo.

http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/iraq-oil-ministry-files-new-complaint-against-kurdish-oil-exports-1409937751?mobile=y

[yota691]

Iraq is suing the Kurdistan before an American court on shipment of oil

 

September 7, 2014 10:32   Last Updated: September 7, 2014 10:32 Source: Direct

 

 

 

 

Iraq has returned to provide a case before an American court in an attempt to take control of about one million barrels of oil Kurdish crude disputed and which afford a tanker near the Texas and days after telling the court that she did not have the authority of the reservation on the shipment but they can listen to the pleadings of the rightful owner of the oil. He expanded judicial documents in Iraq that have been found on Friday the lawsuit to include potential buyers of the shipment and said that the Kurdistan Regional Government did not declare whether it owns the cargo Halaa.bhsp newspaper Twilight News

Baghdad had asked the court to intervene to control temporarily on consignment to be done to resolve the dispute and said the Inter-American Court has in fact the power to do so because the lawsuit include commercial transaction entered into in the States Altdh.onaqlh United Kalaverwta parked a distance of about 60 miles off the Texas since late July July and carrying Kurdish oil worth about 100 million Dolar.otjud the Iraqi central government in a legal battle against the Kurdistan on who owns the right to export V.okan US District Judge Gary Miller of Iraq may request amendment of his complaint.

[jcfrag]

Things that make you go "hmmm".... Why is Iraq so concerned about this one sale. They don't seem to be fighting the other tanker sales that have already taken place. Yet when it comes to a sale to America they fight with tooth and nail. Does petrodollar sales come into play here???? What is really going on with this court battle????

[Maggie123]

Things that make you go "hmmm".... Why is Iraq so concerned about this one sale. They don't seem to be fighting the other tanker sales that have already taken place. Yet when it comes to a sale to America they fight with tooth and nail. Does petrodollar sales come into play here???? What is really going on with this court battle????

 

It really does... huh Jcfrag...

 

I'm pretty sure Baghdad has been threatening to sue over every sale... yet this one is so... what's the word... "hypocritical"... on the part of the US. One side of the mouth is saying "GO UNITED IRAQ"... The other side of the mouth is saying "C'mon Over Kurds"... "We'll Buy Your Oil". The US guberment put out a statement warning oil co's that they "could be sued by Iraq" if they bought this shipment... but at the same time said "We won't do anything to stop you".

 

The way we are arming and supporting the Kurds seemingly more than Baghdad (in relative terms) and have made a cushy alliance up in Erbil/Arbil where the oil is flowing freely... I dunno maybe it's hedging all bets... or perhaps the US really does want a divided Iraq. Either way I can easily see that given first opportunity Baghdad would go the way of the BRICS... I'm pretty sure they don't care much for the "support" they are receiving from the US. Just thinking out loud here...

One thing I'm sure about... There is a whole lot going on behind the scenes that we are not aware of.