Snowden and our civil liberties

[umbertino]

by: PW Editorial

January 13 2014

 

 

 

 

We add our voice to the many - including the New York Times and the UK Guardian - calling for clemency for Edward Snowden, the whistle-blower who exposed the National Security Agency's massive domestic spying program. The NSA's unprecedented invasion of Americans' privacy included collecting phone and email records and other personal information of millions of ordinary citizens.

 

Snowden, a contractor with the NSA, says he first attempted to raise his concerns with his superiors over this unconstitutional activity, but was ignored. So he made the information public. The result has been unprecedented nationwide outrage and debate, and a welcome renewed attention to the need to protect our essential civil liberties.

 

Along with landmark struggles for freedom and democracy, this nation also has an unfortunate history of repression and attacks on civil liberties, carried out in the name of protecting the country from "threats." The Palmer Raids of 1919-1920 and the McCarthy witch-hunts of the 1950s are only two examples. So Americans have good reason to be concerned about the NSA program that Snowden revealed.

 

The NSA mass surveillance operation is a continuation of a renewed undermining of civil liberties launched with the misnamed USA PATRIOT Act, enacted in 2001 following the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Among other things, the PATRIOT Act authorized warrantless government searches of phone, email and financial records.  Starting in 2002 the Bush administration ordered the NSA to conduct widespread wiretapping of Americans' phone calls without any court orders. In 2008, additional legislation provided immunity to telecommunications companies who cooperate with such government programs.

 

Unfortunately, the Obama administration has continued these kinds of unconstitutional actions.

 

Those who are demanding Snowden's head have set up a false opposition between protecting safety and protecting civil liberties. As many experts have pointed out, the NSA's massive domestic surveillance program is not making us safer. It did not prevent last year's Boston Marathon massacre, for example, even though the bombers used cell phones extensively. To truly seek out actual terrorists, the experts point out, law enforcement agencies can pursue targeted information-gathering without violating our constitutional rights. Instead, the NSA program, scooping up random massive amounts of personal data without warrant, has compromised our national security by undermining the values that have encouraged generations to rally to this nation's defense -  whenever it actually was in danger. "Our values have been our best national security asset - in times of war and in times of peace and in eras of upheaval," said President Obama in a speech in 2009.

 

In the wake of Snowden's revelations and the furor that they have unleashed, President Obama appears to be having second thoughts. He is reportedly preparing to announce reforms that would curb the NSA abuses. That is welcome. But it would not have come about if Snowden had not made the NSA's unconstitutional spying program public.

 

Those who argue that Snowden should be severely punished for breaking the law miss the point. The information that he exposed is vital to the preservation of our democracy. For his service and his bravery he deserves thanks and a normal life - not a life in prison or having to run from prosecution.

 

We urge the administration to recognize this fact by offering leniency or clemency to Edward Snowden.

 

Furthermore, we urge the administration and Congress to take prompt executive and legislative action to end warrantless spying on Americans and other government violations of our essential civil liberties.

 

http://www.peoplesworld.org/snowden-and-our-civil-liberties/

Edited January 13, 2014 by umbertino

[AmericaInc]

Snowden's a patriot. Anyone who can think knows this.

 

Therein lies the problem...

[gymrat76541]

umbertino one question = have you lost your mind?

 

Snowden exposed the United States of America and spit on everything we believe in.

Lets look at the facts - Yes, the US did spy on other countries.

Now, do you for 1 minute actually think that we are alone in this offense? They do NOT spy on us?

That's the plain and ugly truth here - everyone spys on everyone else.

Our problem is that this low-life piece of dog crap exposed us.

Snowden deserves to be shot. By all means, if the USA can not do it, give him clemency and allow him to come home so that someone else can do it for them. Which will happen. Mark my words.

[Thaiexpat]

A true American hero. He risked it all to exposed the UN-constitutional activities of an Un-constitutional agency. Spying on Americans w/o a valid warrant is wrong. Anyone who thinks it is OK for the US gubermint to spy on its own people w/o the safeguards at have put in place needs to move to North Korea and enjoy the life under such a regime. NSA has not protected America in any way shape or form (and NEITHER has the TSA, another agency full-o-dirtbags). Stop the madness. Liberate Snowden. give him a metal and make John McStain (another loser, dirtbag) pin it on him. Love to see the face of that terrorist-lover having to do that!!

Dunno, just saying.....Peace and bring Mr. Snowden home a HERO

[waterman13]

Agreed Thaiexpat.

Wm13

[gymrat76541]

Since you guys like this joker so much, better get to work on that bullet-proof head gear that he will need to wear IF he ever comes back to the USA.

[Thaiexpat]

Since you guys like this joker so much, better get to work on that bullet-proof head gear that he will need to wear IF he ever comes back to the USA.

[/quote

Why? YOU going to shoot him, tough-guy?? What a joke. Threatening a man who spilled the beans on ILLEGAL wire-tapping and exposed the ILLEGAL activities of an ILLEGAL agency which serves no purpose, but to VIOLATE the laws of this land??? Like I said, Premier Kim has a nice re-education camp in NK for you to live and work in. Might like it. Everyone spying on everyone. Ratting out even your own family. nice place for people like you...On yong, Comrade Gymrat. Kamsa midaa

Agreed Thaiexpat.

Wm13

GR throwing out the negs. I evened you out.

[AmericaInc]

umbertino one question = have you lost your mind?

 

Snowden exposed the United States of America and spit on everything we believe in.

Lets look at the facts - Yes, the US did spy on other countries.

Now, do you for 1 minute actually think that we are alone in this offense? They do NOT spy on us?

That's the plain and ugly truth here - everyone spys on everyone else.

Our problem is that this low-life piece of dog crap exposed us.

Snowden deserves to be shot. By all means, if the USA can not do it, give him clemency and allow him to come home so that someone else can do it for them. Which will happen. Mark my words.

Amazing.

The issue was not spying on foreigners.

It is reading your emails and listening to your phone calls.

 

Domestic spying. Unconstitutional.

Aren't you righties always screaming about that piece of paper? But only when it suits your emotions...

 

Believe me - Umbertino's mind is just fine.

GR throwing out the negs. I evened you out.

Gymrat - there is time to mend your outlook.

This issue's complicated...but Thaixpat is right - he is a hero.

 

The gov't is breaking the law and calling it legal. We have our rights.

 

Personally, I find it hard WHEN.......the gov't wages war and empire overseas for big business, then when there's the inevitable blowback...says we have to be spied upon and our rights taken away for our protection...WHEN our elected officials are really protecting THEMSELVES because they know we are pissed and foreign countries are pissed.

Edited January 14, 2014 by AmericaInc

[Shabibilicious]

Whatever.  God willing it never happens......but if by some chance, somebody in your family or a friend is affected by terrorism on our soil.......you'll will be singing the blues that our government didn't do enough to protect them.  Snowden is in fact himself a terrorist.....albeit it, a cyber one.  Just my opinion.....but it would be in his best interest to remain bunked with the russkies.  

 

GO RV, and NO BV

[dog53]

Its not what he did. 

Its how he chose to do it.

and who he ran too.

Oh and guess what

They have been watching us for years people

nothing new here

[Shabibilicious]

Its not what he did. 

Its how he chose to do it.

and who he ran too.

Oh and guess what

They have been watching us for years people

nothing new here

 

Agreed.    

 

GO RV, and NO BV

[AoK]

'“..it is a universal truth that the loss of liberty at home is to be charged to provisions against danger, real or pretended, from abroad.”
 

“If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. “  
 

"Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes...known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. . . No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare."

- James Madison, Political Observations, 1795

 

 

“It is not the function of our Government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the Government from falling into error.” Robert H Jackson (1892 – 1954) 
 

"One may well ask: How can you advocate breaking some laws and obeying others? The answer lies in the fact that there are two types of laws: just and unjust. I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

 

“Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in fear.” - Harry S. Truman, 33rd POTUS 1884-1972

 

[AoK]

"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it."

 

"Why, the Government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them." 

 

- Mark Twain, 1835-1910

 

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself, without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, and intolerable...” ― H.L. Mencken

 

"Human law is law only by virtue of its accordance with right reason; and thus it is manifest that it flows from the eternal law. And in so far as it deviates from right reason it is called an unjust law; in such case it is no law at all, but rather a species of violence." -- Thomas Aquinas, 1225-1274

[Shabibilicious]

I love quotes.......especially the ones taken out of context of a larger speech and designed for personal or political gain.  A person's quote is generally unintelligible when they are on fire.     

 

GO RV, and NO BV 

[AmericaInc]

Whatever.  God willing it never happens......but if by some chance, somebody in your family or a friend is affected by terrorism on our soil.......you'll will be singing the blues that our government didn't do enough to protect them.  Snowden is in fact himself a terrorist.....albeit it, a cyber one.  Just my opinion.....but it would be in his best interest to remain bunked with the russkies.  

 

GO RV, and NO BV

Government didn't do enough to protect us?

It is because of the gov't we have terrorism.

If we didn't stick our fat cat business noses into the oil in the ME, there would be no terrorism here.

Ya think Australia is having this problem? ......NO

Because they don't have an empire...jeez guys. Get on the stick here.

Its not what he did. 

Its how he chose to do it.

and who he ran too.

Oh and guess what

They have been watching us for years people

nothing new here

How he did it was he lost his life, as he knew it, to tell the truth.

Now he is a fugitive forever.

That takes b@lls.

Edited January 14, 2014 by AmericaInc

[Shabibilicious]

Government didn't do enough to protect us?

It is because of the gov't we have terrorism.

If we didn't stick our fat cat business noses into the oil in the ME, there would be no terrorism here.

Ya think Australia is having this problem? ......NO

Because they don't have an empire...jeez guys. Get on the stick here.

 

I respectfully disagree.  Whenever you have a good thing going......there is always somebody that wants to take it from you.  It is the nature of man.......as old as Cain and Abel.  You cannot surround yourself in a bubble of peace and prosperity and expect somebody else to leave your bubble intact.  As always, just my opinion.    

 

GO RV, and NO BV

[dog53]

Government didn't do enough to protect us?

It is because of the gov't we have terrorism.

If we didn't stick our fat cat business noses into the oil in the ME, there would be no terrorism here.

Ya think Australia is having this problem? ......NO

Because they don't have an empire...jeez guys. Get on the stick here.

How he did it was he lost his life, as he knew it, to tell the truth.

Now he is a fugitive forever.

That takes b@lls.

 

Running never require`s b@lls 

[jonjon]

For all of you that think breaking the law to protect the people is okay, it's obvious just how cowardly you are.  Snowden is a hero.  The writer of the original post was wrong in stating that we are a democracy because we are a republic and even the government is charged with following the laws.  Snowden didn't break one law, his only fault was exposing the tyrannical over-reach of this criminal empire. 

[dog53]

For all of you that think breaking the law to protect the people is okay, it's obvious just how cowardly you are.  Snowden is a hero.  The writer of the original post was wrong in stating that we are a democracy because we are a republic and even the government is charged with following the laws.  Snowden didn't break one law, his only fault was exposing the tyrannical over-reach of this criminal empire. 

 

Hero`s don't run Jon Jon

Especially right to the hands of your enemy

Hero`s stand behind their actions and face whats attacking them.

Defend the action`s and path that they have chose to follow

He is a coward

[jonjon]

[gymrat76541]

Snowden had taken an oath—the Oath of Office, or appointment affidavit, given to all federal employees [Note: to clarify, this would have been when he was an employee earlier, for the C.I.A.]:

I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

Snowden signed an oath, as a condition of his employment as an NSA contractor, not to disclose classified information, and knew the penalties for violating the oath.

 

Anyone who has ever served their country in or out of uniform has taken the same oath. He spit in our faces!

Death is a fitting end to this story!

Edited January 16, 2014 by gymrat76541

[waterman13]

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/23/22417513-holder-clemency-for-snowden-too-far-but-open-to-resolution?lite

Wm13

[Shabibilicious]

Good article Wm13.  It's good to see that the majority of Americans see Snowden for what he is.  

 

GO RV, and NO BV

[George Hayduke]

Hero`s don't run Jon Jon

Especially right to the hands of your enemy

Hero`s stand behind their actions and face whats attacking them.

Defend the action`s and path that they have chose to follow

He is a coward

He is a coward with a capital 'P'.

There is no proof he provided the same level of concern to his supervisors.  He merely said he notified his supervisors.  Of what, who knows?

What would his supervisors gain by ignoring him? 

He had additional avenues here CONUS he could have used but instead chose to run like the little ***** he is, into the arms of our enemies.

Hero? RIght...

[gymrat76541]

Lets just for fun assume that the USA grants the request for clemency to Snowden.

 

Question - how long do you think it will be BEFORE someone blows his brains out?