California Couple Fined $300

[Dalevoss]

I would like to comment about this but words really can explain how pissed I am on so many different levels.

California Couple Fined $300 for Holding Home Bible Studies

Published September 21, 2011 | NewsCore

A southern California family has been fined for holding regular Bible studies at their home because it violates a city zoning code, The Los Angeles Times reported Wednesday.

The city of San Juan Capistrano, in Orange County, fined Charles and Stephanie Fromm $300 for having as many as 50 people assembled at their home twice a week, the Times reported. City officials also warned the couple that subsequent fines could increase if they continued to host the Bible studies without obtaining a special permit.

A religious legal non-profit group, the Pacific Justice Institute (PJI), has taken up the case saying the fine was a violation of religious freedom.

A spokeswoman for the city of San Juan Capistrano stressed that local authorities were not trying to prohibit home Bible study.

Instead, she said the city fined the Fromms for transforming a residential area into a place where people regularly assemble.

"The Fromm case further involves regular meetings on Sunday mornings and Thursday afternoons with up to 50 persons, with impacts on the residential neighborhood on street access and parking," spokeswoman Cathy Salcedo said in an email to The Los Angeles Times.

Brad Dacus, an attorney for the Public Justice Institute, said the Fromms live in a semi-rural area and have not caused any parking problems for neighbors.

The city "needed some kind of rational basis to justify their rigid intolerance towards this family for having a Bible study in their home," Dacus told the Times.

He said the Fromms should have their money returned, adding that PJI intends to defend "this family's home Bible study all the way to the US Supreme Court, if necessary."

The Fromms could not be reached Wednesday for comment, the Times said.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/09/21/california-couple-fined-300-for-holding-home-bible-studies/#ixzz1Ye1cCuC0

[Roadie]

as many as 50 people assembled at their home twice a week...

Instead, she said the city fined the Fromms for transforming a residential area into a place where people regularly assemble.

Read that part over again before you get too pissed.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Roadie

[hardmoney1]

Read that part over again before you get too pissed.

Really? Is that what we should pay attention to?

If you cannot see the infringement on Liberty, you CHOOSE not to see. Most liberals can't see the forest - the tree right in front of them blocks their view!

As long as it supports your views, right? Well, see what happens when your view becomes the minority view. I wonder, did you support "colored" drinking fountains? Perhaps you could see the "wisdom" of that? That frog is really getting close to the boiling point!

Where are you as you see 40 million aborted children since Roe v Wade? Happy about that one? On what grounds do you support this?

Wake up people!

[Dalevoss]

hardmoney1

Thank you... Right now, just thank you

[Lutie]

Be afraid be very afraid !!

[Mommyof3boys]

This is just crazy!

I saw an article posted the other day on DV about this couple. But in that article it stated “How dare they tell us we can’t have whatever we want in our home,” Stephanie Fromm told the Capistrano Dispatch. “We want to be able to use our home. We’ve paid a lot and invested a lot in our home and backyard … I should be able to be hospitable in my home.”

According to the Dispatch, the Fromms live in a neighborhood with large homes and have a corral, barn, pool and huge back lawn on their property, so parking and noise aren’t a problem.

Read more:

So basically the neighbors do not care about the people being there it is more of why they are there Sad

[Dalevoss]

Read that part over again before you get too pissed.

Roadie,

you dont see it do you? Piece by piece, everyday, more and more, our rights are being violated and took away! You really dont see it do you?

[Aces-n-Eights]

You see it's only "separation" of church and state when it's asking for religion to have the same voice in state matters as perverse activities... Now if the state wants to say that you can't practice your religion in your own home...then that's ok?? How convoluted can we get.. A home is sanctuary...well established law... what you do within it's walls is NONE of anybody elses business... If this home was being used for a M U S L I M gathering, well then , interfering would be a no, no... but it's Christians...so under the guise of "safety" we'll shut it down...you know, occupancy codes...

[Dalevoss]

If this home was being used for a M U S L I M gathering, well then , interfering would be a no, no... but it's Christians...so under the guise of "safety" we'll shut it down...you know, occupancy codes...

So true, so true but its not just about that... Mc donalds taking away happy meals because the state say so... pledge of allegiance gone cuz the state says so... ten commandments gone cuz the state says so... we are told what to feed our kids cuz the state says so... Illegal persons coming into this country and violating the hell out of every thing but it's ok cuz the state says so.... tag and dodge ball taken away from our children cuz the state says so.... other country's flag flying higher than our own ... i dont who said so on that one, but you get my point

[Nelg]

And more persecution is on its way. This thing is just getting started. Christians need to take a stand, but with compassion and concern for those doing the persecution.

Do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though some strange thing were happening to you; but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing; so that also at the revelation of His glory, you may rejoice with jubilation.

Persecution and trials start at the church. They are to test the church to see if they are trusting God

(1Peter 4).

[GhostDawg]

All jokes, hostility and bullshite aside, this is absofuckinlutely ridiculous! I for one hope that the Fromms win this battle, regardless of what religion they are practicing that is a violation of a constitutional right. Would the same thing happen to me if I had "family reunions" twice a week? Or, social gatherings of 50+ plus people twice or more a week? Probably not. Just another way for the government to corral its sheeple to THEIR meeting places where they can dictate what is preached to you. Heaven forbid someone decided to have a relaxed atmosphere, a "family" atmosphere to study something that they believe in. Absolutely appalling. I am at a point right now in my life that I have had enough of this garbage, taking a little here, taking a little there. If it aint broke you stupid phucks, don't try to fix it! Yeah you Mr. Politician, Ms. i Burnt Myself at the McDonalds drive thru on coffee because I am an idiot, Mr. My Kids Fat because I feed them junk food all the time. Gimme a break, take responsibility for what you do and for what you teach your children. The more you sheeple complain about how phucked up things are the worse it is going to get for the rest of us that enjoy the liberties that we have now. Illegals getting better breaks than those of us born and raised here legally, foreigners disrespecting our country by complaining about OUR traditions, our songs, our flag and our belief in GOD. In my opinion fellow DV's, it is going to get far worse before something is done about it, if at all. A revolution perhaps, civil unrest, a historical NON turnout for voting, I don't know. Your guess is as good as mine, but something is on the horizon and it does not bode well at all.

Sorry for the long winded post, I vented a bit more than expected. Just my

[Roadie]

Really? Is that what we should pay attention to?

If you cannot see the infringement on Liberty, you CHOOSE not to see. Most liberals can't see the forest - the tree right in front of them blocks their view!

As long as it supports your views, right? Well, see what happens when your view becomes the minority view. I wonder, did you support "colored" drinking fountains? Perhaps you could see the "wisdom" of that? That frog is really getting close to the boiling point!

Where are you as you see 40 million aborted children since Roe v Wade? Happy about that one? On what grounds do you support this?

Wake up people!

LOL you guys crack me up. Way to read into my post that's really not there. Do you really think I am against Bible study? NO. I was really upset over this story until I read the part of 50+ people at their house over and over again. Here in California we live pretty close together. NOW put yourself in the neighbor shoes. Parking for 50, noise from 50 people just being together. Once in awhile sure, but twice a week huh no thank you. I don't care what they are doing that many people in on my street twice a week would suck.

Since you brought up abortion, my wife, daughter and I are doing a fund raiser walk for Care Net this weekend. Want to donate?

All jokes, hostility and bullshite aside, this is absofuckinlutely ridiculous! I for one hope that the Fromms win this battle, regardless of what religion they are practicing that is a violation of a constitutional right. Would the same thing happen to me if I had "family reunions" twice a week? Or, social gatherings of 50+ plus people twice or more a week?

Would you not complain if your neighbor had 50+ member family reunions twice a week? My point is 50+ in my neighborhood is too much.

[Luigi1]

This is nothing new. They been doing this in Pelosi's district for decades.

[magawatt]

I don't think the issue is one of free assembly to worship as they see fit.

I suspect it about parking. Where I used to live on Long Island, if your car encroached upon another persons parking spot there was hell to pay.

Even though it may look like it, not every challenge to personal freedom comes directly from the communist party.

[Chape]

Would you not complain if your neighbor had 50+ member family reunions twice a week? My point is 50+ in my neighborhood is too much.

Read more:

Yes, although I am not against bible study, I had an incident in my neighborhood a while ago.

Unlike this article states, there was traffic everwhere. And nowhere for locals to park, as they clogged up all of the street on both sides.

Even an emergency vehicle could not get passed. Then of course the noise and hustle and bustle of the crowd

did disturb the usually peaceful neighborhood. However, this was just a little house, with a usual size lot.

But the difference is, this bible study group is in a huge area.

The property appears to be perfect for such a gathering, and would suite me just fine.

Yes folks, we are losing our freedoms one step at a time, and we need to WAKE UP !

We all have some studying to do!!

If you want to learn more about how to protect your freedoms,

visit this site and read, read, read!

http://www.republicfortheunitedstates.org/

Best Regards.

[GhostDawg]

Would you not complain if your neighbor had 50+ member family reunions twice a week? My point is 50+ in my neighborhood is too much.

No actually I would not complain as I do have neighbors that have gatherings of this magnitude on a regular basis. One Hispanic family 3 houses to my North, a Somali family across the street, and the White heavy set couple next door to me. I myself have people over about once a month for Texas Hold Em, about 15-20 people and sometimes more. Besides that, I am rarely home as I work more than I should, and I have really screwy hours.

[bright]

making a big deal out of this seems crazy.........with such a huge following why not rent an assembly hall.....I'm sure everyone would be more comfortable........Why doesn't their church provide a place to meet.....some trying to make this a liberal issue is a weak point(believe it or not there are Christain liberals in this world) I wonder how conservatives will greet liberals in heavan....something to think about hopefully they will not try to trick God into sending someone like President Carter down below.......be happy you have such a following........they could probably through a few dollars in a hat find a place where parking and gathering for their meeting would be so easy.....

[Photochic]

The title had me up in arms, but the more it's explained, it makes sense from a purely civic/safety reason. Haven't you ever been in a building where it posts "This room accommodates X amount of people capacity". It's a simple restriction per the fire dept.

I'd be a little pissed to see 50 extra cars parked on my street at any regular interval. And I'm only saying this because it stated that they were supposed to have a special permit. If they were adding a room to their house, would they be upset because they'd need a permit? I don't think religious freedom is the issue this time.

[donnydoright]

believe it or not there are Christain liberals in this world

How does a Christian vote along with a party that supports, homosexual Marriage is Pro-choice and is Against Prayer in School? I'm not sure that there ARE any Christian Liberals...But i have trouble believing their are any, non-religious Conservatives either

Edited September 22, 2011 by donnydoright

[Dragnut Oprah]

NICE!

[Nelg]

LOL you guys crack me up. Way to read into my post that's really not there. Do you really think I am against Bible study? NO. I was really upset over this story until I read the part of 50+ people at their house over and over again. Here in California we live pretty close together. NOW put yourself in the neighbor shoes. Parking for 50, noise from 50 people just being together. Once in awhile sure, but twice a week huh no thank you. I don't care what they are doing that many people in on my street twice a week would suck.

Since you brought up abortion, my wife, daughter and I are doing a fund raiser walk for Care Net this weekend. Want to donate?

Would you not complain if your neighbor had 50+ member family reunions twice a week? My point is 50+ in my neighborhood is too much.

Here is a quote from the post by their attorney, "Brad Dacus, an attorney for the Public Justice Institute, said the Fromms live in a semi-rural area and have not caused any parking problems for neighbors."

So, parking is not the problem. It is only the excuse used by the state, city, whoever. I might go alone with you if it was being held in the middle of a sud-division where the houses are close to each other. But apparently there is quite a bit of distance from one house to another. Note: I MIGHT go alone with you. . . there is more involved than we know.

[detroitjazzman]

I don't know what to say.......Someone,,,, comes to my home and I'm having bible study.....they get to say how I use my mone???? Right in my "Deed" is a covenant "Right to quiet enjoyement" local municapilities do not get to dictate my use with the exception of for Illegal purposes. My wilfe tells me that Im kinda stubborn...but I would never pay that fine...never !!! You dont get to tell me who I can have over....next will it be kids studying for SAT/ACT? .....or maybe, cannot have a party at the house..... The reason that folks buy big houses on big lots.....so they don't have to deal with the neighbors being too close... This is waaaaaayyy over the top! I hope he dosent pay and makes this a very embarrasing mistake on someone's part...just saying

[kliklok00]

If they obeyed the local laws and ordinances, there wouldn't be an issue...and guess what? The very Bible they are studying commands believers (and I am a Christian-Bible Thumping Believer) to obey the laws of the land and to live in peace among their neighbors. We (believers) are referred to as "foreigners" living in a lost world---our lives here on earth should not be wasted fighting a legal system that doesn't agree with our belief system. We should be seen as "lights" and as a people who do good deeds...not as people angered and offended by those who are not of our faith!