IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE

[Marko59]

This post is written to remind all of the impending event that is to come. It will involve all people of this earth and there will be no escaping its moment. Those who know Jesus as the savior of his children will know what i am talking about and the rest will read, scoff, try to debunk it by their misunderstanding or their lack of knowledge by choice.

Jesus said behold when i return i will come like a thief in the middle of the nite, and all who know me and all who believe in me will hear my call. In that moment in the twinkling of an eye all this world will be changed. His return is eminent as set forth by the father to set in motion the cleasning of this earth of its sinful nature. The earth and all its inhabitants who are left here will not have but seven years from that moment to liveand then the end will come. Yes you can be saved during this time but it will be hard you will suffer the some of the bowls of judgement. God set forth this moment in time and it is coming to believers and non believers alike. It will be a joyous time for all who know him and a sorrowful and painful time for all that is left. What i am refering to is the rapture and the time proceeding it. It will be a time when people will want to kill themselves to end the pain but death will escape them. I understand why some has lack of understanding of this because they have never had the desire or even a wish to draw closer to God, but there will be no excuses offered on the day of judgement. Silence will be the order of the moment for the sinful when his last words to you will be " depart from me for i never knew you". Your destiny will be fulfilled according to your choice.

Question:: one morning when you get up and turn on the news and the tv is silent, you look outside and the birds have stopped singing you find out that there are cars all over the road with people missing, planes have crashed because pilots disappeared in flight, friends and neighbors gone, on your way to work you notice busy roads are vacant except for a few who are left and you are still here.....Jesus said when i come, " two will be working one will be taken and one will be left, husband and wife shall be lying in bed one will be taken and one will be left, this is the way it will for the believers and non believers. I can hear the scoffers trying to debunk this already but that is to be expected and is alright. Jesus said my wish is that no one should miss the rapture but it is also declared that many will hold on to this this world and what it has to offer rather than put their faith in him. Narrow is the way and wide is the gate to destruction and many will fall in. Some words of every message will fall on deaf ears and some will lift up and at least remind people what is set in stone and is coming. The ones who know Jesus and put their faith in him to guide our paths can see the signs winding down each day closer to that moment but it should not hinder us because we will not miss his call. All the money in the world will not be worth missing this moment. To God be the glory and may something i write be an inspiration to someone who still don't know you like i do, reach out and touch the readers of DV and show them that you are real and inspire them with understanding so that they might see also............Heavyduty053

Thank you for this reminder. I am a born again christian but many many out there need to know and believe Jesus Christ as the only way to heaven. God's word proves itself to be true. Just humble yourself and ask Him to save your soul. He will. It's as simple as that.

[estewart]

God Bless you

We have a choice in everything we do. I choose to know God and most people don't know God's voice or His word.

Oh? Have you ever actually had a true cosmic experience? Have you ever traveled out of your physical body into other more advance worlds that exist? Or are just believing in the limited beliefs that have been laid on you to box in your soul within a very limited scope or sense of Reality?

That's true, we do have choices. In FACT, we are forced to choose every step of the way through life. Or we can choose not to choose. Our choice.

The result of the choices made, if any, can bring experience which can become KNOWLEDGE. Do you have knowledge based upon experience or merely beliefs? Beliefs are the opposite of true knowledge, you know.

If you tell me you have a belief about this or that you will be telling me you do not actually know about the matter due to a lack of genuine experience.

[Heavyduty053]

What God wants us to know?

Well, I thought God was All-Powerful, and knows EVERYTHING, and can do anything, too. Besides, on the Seventh Day God rested. His work was done. He doesn't WANT anything further. (READ THE BIBLE!)

The God you seem to be talking about does not seem all that capable or knowledgeable. (Note: If you tell me that God hopes for this or that I will need to ask you, "How do you know that? How do you know what's on God's mind?")

In my view, any God who is not One with Infinity is a pip-squeak, really.

Oh, is God a being who enjoys bursts of vengeance and who creates a Hell to send His Creation into, and where those that believe in Him are proud that they are God Fearing Christians?

In my view, further, all the above is concerned with a totally spiritually sick situation. Very ill. Altogether unwell. Lost, even.

Read your Bible if you have one, there is non so blind as those who cannot see, so i guess you think he was talking about a blind man. Whetherr you like it or not he has dominion over this earth and everything in it. Do you honestly want to take a chance on being cast into the alternative. What most fail to understand is the sole of a man has the feelings, suffers the pain the same as you do now and will for eternity. So if one is cast into the eternal fire, well you do the math. The question is do you want to ride that train.

[estewart]

Read your Bible if you have one, there is non so blind as those who cannot see, so i guess you think he was talking about a blind man. Whetherr you like it or not he has dominion over this earth and everything in it. Do you honestly want to take a chance on being cast into the alternative. What most fail to understand is the sole of a man has the feelings, suffers the pain the same as you do now and will for eternity. So if one is cast into the eternal fire, well you do the math. The question is do you want to ride that train.

THINK about it. All the qualities of YOUR God tells me you actually worship the Devil, himself. ONLY a Totally Demonic being would be like yours.

You really need to stop listening to those that have corrupted your mind and begin thinking for yourself and start analyzing things. You have become seriously infected.

[Nelg]

"Folks...as you can tell, this is my first post...having joined this forum just a few days ago in search of data regarding the anticipated RV event.

However, I couldn't resist commenting on Heavy Duty's post and responses by oatman and Aqua Dude."

Good to have you aboard, Ice. The water is fine as long as you don’t stamp around in the mud. Ha.

This threat will be interesting if we stay away from name-calling and try to be respectful of the other person’s belief. That does not mean that you can’t disagree as you have with Heavyduty, and I do with your post. We can learn from each other as “iron sharpens iron.”

I will try to make short post to not exhaust the read in a marathon of information. He section will address only one aspect of eschatology or exegesis, so be patient. Others will comment as well and those should be answered or commented on by the participants.

If we do our research properly then all of us will learn.

Again, welcome to the forum.

Heavyduty, thanks for the comments.

[Nelg]

"IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE" you will be dead and that will be the same as the second coming of the Lord.

If you believe that you will be ruptured before the tribulation you are wrong! This is a false doctrine which will enslave many to the beast. Christ will return after the tribulation.

Those who long to die, refers to those in Hades who long for the death of the soul but it does not come to them because the soul does not die.

"If you do not eat My flesh and drink My blood you have no life in you." Here is the deeper mystery.

ARE WE SPIRITUALLY ALIVE AT ALL?

Personally, I agree with you concerning the rapture (not rupture). But when you make your point, do so with the Scripture and do not immediately proclaim something as "false doctrine." If it is false, show us from the Bible. Your word or mind means nothing unless it can be verified by what the Spirit has revealed to us. Are we to be taken up after the tribulation, then show me from the word.

You make a statement about "those who long to die" or desiring the "death of the soul" being in Hades. I don't find that in the Scripture, can you give me a Bible reference?

You quoted the passage in John 6:53 where Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you." But He continues to say, "Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

In the context of the chapter, Jesus is speaking to the crowd who wanted a sign from Him. He quickly directs them to their real problem, they did not believe in Jesus as being from God. His answer is that to do the work of God is to believe (6:28-29). The entire section, John 6:25-68, is a discourse and challenge to the followers to believe in Him. The "eating of His flesh" and "drinking of the blood" is a metaphor for believing in Him. Note John 6:55-58 Jesus compares Himself to the "manna" given by God to the Hebrews in the wilderness. As they (Hebrew fathers) ate the manna and lived, so if we "eat" the "bread of life" (Christ) we will live. This is not really a mystery.

Oh, my God! We're goina get Nuked!

Hey estewart, what makes you think that? We may if some terrorist get his finger on the trigger!

It isn't a question of whether we are spiriatually alive, or not, it is a question of whether we are spiritually blinded by beliefs laid on us to enslave us, body, mind and soul.

Agreed! John 9 is a good chapter for what you are saying. The greatest prison is the mind that is locked.

[sportfisher]

Great post HD053

[Nelg]

Do you think G-d rules with fear of wrath? Interesting

G-d rules with love and grace. His disciplines (judgments, not the final judgment) are because of His love (Hebrews 12:5-12). The child of G-d, a believer, has no fear of the final judgment (1John 4:13-18).

[iceni]

Hey there folks;

Thanks for all the responses, whether pro or con doesn't matter...just nice to see people thinking and responding.

Kind of overwhelming when you think of it.

I will attempt to respond as much as possible and as time allows.

When I do it will probably be extensive because one cannot do a study with only a verse or two.

It requires using scripture to prove scripture and that means the WHOLE Word.

I have learned long ago that people will believe what they want to believe and they don't want to be confused with the facts.

Man's carnal nature wants it their way and it takes a major change from the old man (carnality) to the new man (spiritual) to begin the journey towards achieving the mind of Christ.

It's all a work in progress for all of us and some happen to have progressed further than others towards achieving the status of the Sons of God.

Just like salvation is a process towards justification.

I could go on and on about this subject itself but will have to deal with it a bit later as I gotta go and get some work done.

Hope to get back to this later today and respond to some of your comments regarding the rapture and some other related subjects.

ice

[Heavyduty053]

When i posted this it had been on my mind for a while. So much of sunday sermons is watered down for what ever reason and the Word of God is not spoken as it is supposed to be. All of us who claim to hold his word dear to our hearts is supposed to go out and proclaim the Gospel of Jesus to all who will listen. The comments to this message for or against is welcome and is getting attention and is planting seeds that maybe God will cultivate. If one person can see that maybe the truth has escaped them and ask Jesus into their life then the devil has been defeated once again. Bringing attention to this is not for me it is for the one who substaines my life and yours and watchs over us daily. It is him to whom i bring this glory. If we all share in the beliefs that Jesus will bless us if we keep this going it might just reach someone who really needs our lord. Please add your comments to this message as to how you feel about what God has done for you and why you know that he is real or why you don't believe in God because of whatever the reason. Without comments it will fade away into the last pages of this site. Please help i know the lord has blessed you in many ways that you should be thankful for. If this could save one sole for Jesus he will remember who all played a part in spreading his word..........Heavyduty053

[Aqua Dude]

false doctrine i don't think so that is what i was talking about truth is falling on deaf ears but you will see one day.

just post scripture that points to Jesus will return BEFORE the tribulation period to take believers away so that they don't have to go through the tribulation...please post the scripture

my ears aren't deaf, i am a follower of Christ and i've been reading the revelation since i was 12, nearly 15 years later i think i have a great understanding of the truth

[Nelg]

Hi Ice,

Here are some comments on your post. I have taken sections and commented before going to the next.

Whoa! I am in awe. Never thought I would ever be impressed by anyone thumping the Bible, so to speak. Pretty impressive, indeed. Prolly hurt a few poor peep's feelings, here, though. You will likely experience a strong back lash. So, gird yourself.

I am interested in the extent of your studies, ice. Have you studied about Paul? I should maybe mention I have a real respect for authentic words of Jesus (the so called Lord's Prayer isn't among them), but little for Paul. In my view, the Christian church became utterly corrupted at the onset, and by Paul. <br style="mso-special-character:line-break"> <br style="mso-special-character:line-break">

Just a question, Why do you think Paul corrupted the church? My thoughts are totally different. Paul, as well as the other writers of the New Testament, were writing under the inspiration and direction of the Holy Spirit (Jno 14:16-21), which was the Spirit of Christ (14:18 ). So all the words of the writers of the New Testament were words of Jesus, the Christ, through the Spirit. If Paul’s writings corrupted the church, then it was Christ who corrupted the church. I don’t think that is what you meant, but that is what you are saying.

Jesus appointed a certain one of his disciples to lead the church into the future, and as a kind of mystical-minded joke named the person, Peter. Petros. Which means, rock. This in turn meant, FOUNDATION. Peter was supposed to be the foundation of the church.

Peter was not to be the head of the church. There is only one Head and that is Christ (Colossians 1:18) and the statement that Jesus is the Christ, the son of God is the foundation of the gospel (1Corinthians 3:10-11).

But another man trumped him. And that man's name was Saul. This is the same man who made the incredible claim that over 500 people witnessed the risen Christ at the same time, at a gathering. Paul wasn't there. He was supposedly but simply reporting on the event. Passing it on in passing. Just a side remark. (Sorry I don't recall the chapter and verse.). (1Corinthians 15:1-11)

With that many witnesses one would think that the most incredible event of all time and history would have been reported also by others, considering just how many there was present.

A couple of things you need to consider. Paul was writing this chapter (1Cor. 15) to glorify the resurrection of Christ from the dead. He placed no emphasis on himself. The resurrection of Christ was unique in that the body that Christ received was one that was fitted for eternity. He was buried a physical body, but raised a spiritual body. A real body, but changed into a glorious one (1Cor 15:35-49). Because there were so many witnesses, when the resurrection of Christ was proclaimed (Acts) there is no questioning by the Jews, no rejection by the disciples, for what they proclaimed was known to be true. Accepting or rejecting the resurrection was another matter.

All through his writings he sets the tone for modern day Evangelists' style of preaching, like the "fundamental" exaggerated performances. It's like Paul sanctified it all.

I find the preaching of Paul and his writings as totally opposite to what you are saying. Do you have some examples to justify the way you feel?

Have you studied about Paul and how he had been a Roman soldier bent on persecution of Christians?

Paul was not a Roman soldier. He was part of the Jewish religion and under orders by the Jewish temple officials (high priest) to arrest and put to death believers (Acts 9:1-2; Galatians 1:13-14).

Since Paul was not a Roman soldier and had no part of a cultic religion, the following illustration concerning his participation in Mithraism is bogus and is based on a false conception of Paul's faith.

Are you aware of the so-called, Secret Religion of the Roman Soldiers? That region was called, Mithraism. And one of the main features of this religion concerned the sending of a goat out in the desert to suffer and die as a sacrifice for the expiation of the sins committed that year by the Roman soldiers. I am going to claim here (though this is actually not my own idea) that what Paul mainly did was he took his Mithra religion and translated it into Christianity with the idea that Christ suffered and died on the cross for the ridding of sins of those that "believe" in him. All Paul's idea! He made it up. I am not aware that Jesus said anything about anything such matter as that, so modern Christianity is misnamed. It should be called, Paulinism. He mostly invented it.

The redemption of mankind from sin is the theme of the entire Bible. It was planned before the foundation of the world and will be complete when Christ returns. Paul knew nothing about the total plan of God. It was a mystery which was revealed to him by the Holy Spirit (God) (Ephesians :1-13). The Bible is not a randomly selected collection of writings. It has a purpose and that purpose is to reveal the plan of God to redeem the human race from sin. One of the main problems of modern Christianity is that it does not have a clue in consideration of metaphors.

I would agree with you here. Metaphors are the language of communicating to us by God. There is a wonderful book that helps to explain metaphors entitled “Plowshares & Pruning Hooks, Rethinking the Language of Biblical Prophecy and Apocalyptic” by D. Brent Sandy. I recommend this book when someone is having problems understand the way God communicates through the Bible.

Jesus was asked, "Why do you speak in parables." He said, to paraphrase it, "It is because you aren't ready to hear the straight dope. You have not spiritually matured enough, yet." And he indicated that there were incredible things he could tell, but none of it would be understood. So he makes a point to keep things simple by using parables, which are but symbolic stories. And those parables are just one type of symbology among many others in the Bible. But modern Christians, it seems, are no more mature than they were back at the start as they seem to have no clue as to the use of symbols, and, thus, dramatically, fanatically, take ideas and things at their face value.

That is true. However, all symbols, metaphors, figures of speech are based in truth or a reality. And all of them have a specific purpose.

Just as our governments of the world have become corrupted, so have religions. I sometimes watch the Sunday preachers on TV, in amazement. They are all very much alike. I believe they study each other. Copy each other's moves. I am astounded how anyone could accept any of that malarkey. Basically, it is all a scam business and art to suck wealth out of poor peoples pockets, and it hinges on what was done in the past by powerful people inventing ridged doctrines and beliefs for the sake of enslaving a population's mind body and soul. This is spiritual enslavement. To get really dramatic, here, it is like it's the work of the Devil himself. But the believers just close their minds to the idea of learning and evolving on their own power and initiative and become spiritually stuck as a result. Stopped. In a sense, dead. See? If one is not actively living one's life it is the same as being dead.

Again, you and I would agree about the some of the TV preachers. They are giving Christianity a bad rap by not speaking the truths of God. They are perverting the gospel and robbing the saints much like the priest and Pharisees who robbed the widows (Lk 20:45-47).

All who fail to live godly in Christ are truly spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1-3; 1Timothy 5:6).

The immediate foregoing is a point from a series of books I am working on which will be called, the GUIDE Book. It is a set of books concerning spiritual guidance, and alternate Dimensions of Consciousness, but I expect them to be seriously attacked by the fundamentalist community. Their subtitle, is, A Metaphorical Psychology Series. In an early draft stage they were asked for by the Professor of Psychology at the University of Duquesne in Pittsburgh for use as text books. But they were not developed enough for me feel I could let them go yet.

A critical analysis of every work SHOULD be done to see if what is being taught is truth. Your own statements about TV preachers, Paul, or the teachings of others is a validation of the need for a critical look at what you have written. That's part of the journey in writing. If it is a valid truth, it will stand under the pressure. If it is not, then it needs to fall as false.

You mentioned about how Jesus emphasized the idea that one should remain in a state of expectation, in my terms. My books present the understanding that one needs to expect the unexpected. The idea is that such an attitude keeps one from developing a closed mind. It helps to keep one alive, alert. On one's toes. It is a means for enabling a quality of spiritual vitality to ever be present. It allows Life Force to be able to enter the body and the mind. And, tell me, WHAT MODERN RELIGION TEACHES ANYTHING LIKE THIS? None do. At least, as far as I know. I say, they all fail. They actually oppose congregation members from doing doing anything but BELIEVING what they are told to believe. No inquiry such as you are doing is permitted. No investigation. It's like such questioning is the work of the Devil, himself, at least this is the idea stemming from the modern pulpit, or the TV screen.

I know for sure that you and I have a totally different experience with Christianity. I was raised with believing parents who encourage an open minded and an enquiry into what was being taught. Christians who do not question what they have been taught and find out for themselves the truthfulness or falsity of their belief system are borrowing their faith. Faith is a constant questioning. I have encouraged my daughter (one child now 43) to make her faith real by questioning and observing, listening and learning what God is telling us. Questioning is good, but if you accept all teaching as being truth, you will reject everything.

We live in a truly Dark Age.

[Nelg]

Whether we are spiritually alive or not is the only question really worth asking with our limited time.

Sin is the only thing that truly enslaves, loving God and being loved back is liberating, fullfilling, challenging and basically the missing part of our fallen nature.

God gave us free will and we give it back to Him freely, not as blinded slaves but as enlightened beings so enlightened by the truth of God's revelation.

You are the servant of whatever has mastered you.

Nice post iceni

Athim, good summation. That is certainly the major teaching of Christianity. The Second Coming is a major teaching of Christianity, but we do not need to know all the answers. Nor can we know them. We can only speak what has been written in the Bible. But this post is about the teaching of the Second Coming. Looking forward to hear what you have to say.

[Nelg]

Oh? Have you ever actually had a true cosmic experience? Have you ever traveled out of your physical body into other more advance worlds that exist? Or are just believing in the limited beliefs that have been laid on you to box in your soul within a very limited scope or sense of Reality?

That's true, we do have choices. In FACT, we are forced to choose every step of the way through life. Or we can choose not to choose. Our choice.

The result of the choices made, if any, can bring experience which can become KNOWLEDGE. Do you have knowledge based upon experience or merely beliefs? Beliefs are the opposite of true knowledge, you know.

If you tell me you have a belief about this or that you will be telling me you do not actually know about the matter due to a lack of genuine experience.

Explain to me your out of body experience? Do you believe that YOU have knowledge of advanced worlds that others know nothing about?

Scripture states that faith (belief) is being sure of things hope for and certain having proof of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1) Faith has nothing to do with unexamined evidence. Faith is based on facts and truths that have been revealed.

Psychological experiences can be nothing more than ghosts of the mind without any reality. Experiences of this type are cannot be used as fact. Their only validation is by the person having the experience.

[chocolate1]

This post is written to remind all of the impending event that is to come. It will involve all people of this earth and there will be no escaping its moment. Those who know Jesus as the savior of his children will know what i am talking about and the rest will read, scoff, try to debunk it by their misunderstanding or their lack of knowledge by choice.

Jesus said behold when i return i will come like a thief in the middle of the nite, and all who know me and all who believe in me will hear my call. In that moment in the twinkling of an eye all this world will be changed. His return is eminent as set forth by the father to set in motion the cleasning of this earth of its sinful nature. The earth and all its inhabitants who are left here will not have but seven years from that moment to liveand then the end will come. Yes you can be saved during this time but it will be hard you will suffer the some of the bowls of judgement. God set forth this moment in time and it is coming to believers and non believers alike. It will be a joyous time for all who know him and a sorrowful and painful time for all that is left. What i am refering to is the rapture and the time proceeding it. It will be a time when people will want to kill themselves to end the pain but death will escape them. I understand why some has lack of understanding of this because they have never had the desire or even a wish to draw closer to God, but there will be no excuses offered on the day of judgement. Silence will be the order of the moment for the sinful when his last words to you will be " depart from me for i never knew you". Your destiny will be fulfilled according to your choice.

Question:: one morning when you get up and turn on the news and the tv is silent, you look outside and the birds have stopped singing you find out that there are cars all over the road with people missing, planes have crashed because pilots disappeared in flight, friends and neighbors gone, on your way to work you notice busy roads are vacant except for a few who are left and you are still here.....Jesus said when i come, " two will be working one will be taken and one will be left, husband and wife shall be lying in bed one will be taken and one will be left, this is the way it will for the believers and non believers. I can hear the scoffers trying to debunk this already but that is to be expected and is alright. Jesus said my wish is that no one should miss the rapture but it is also declared that many will hold on to this this world and what it has to offer rather than put their faith in him. Narrow is the way and wide is the gate to destruction and many will fall in. Some words of every message will fall on deaf ears and some will lift up and at least remind people what is set in stone and is coming. The ones who know Jesus and put their faith in him to guide our paths can see the signs winding down each day closer to that moment but it should not hinder us because we will not miss his call. All the money in the world will not be worth missing this moment. To God be the glory and may something i write be an inspiration to someone who still don't know you like i do, reach out and touch the readers of DV and show them that you are real and inspire them with understanding so that they might see also............Heavyduty053

quote the scripture bub-in order to avoid sounding like Harold Camping....

[Nelg]

Hi Ice,

Here are some comments on your post. I have taken sections and commented before going to the next.

Whoa! I am in awe. Never thought I would ever be impressed by anyone thumping the Bible, so to speak. Pretty impressive, indeed. Prolly hurt a few poor peep's feelings, here, though. You will likely experience a strong back lash. So, gird yourself.

I am interested in the extent of your studies, ice. Have you studied about Paul? I should maybe mention I have a real respect for authentic words of Jesus (the so called Lord's Prayer isn't among them), but little for Paul. In my view, the Christian church became utterly corrupted at the onset, and by Paul. <br style="mso-special-character:line-break"> <br style="mso-special-character:line-break">

Just a question, Why do you think Paul corrupted the church? My thoughts are totally different. Paul, as well as the other writers of the New Testament, were writing under the inspiration and direction of the Holy Spirit (Jno 14:16-21), which was the Spirit of Christ (14:18 ). So all the words of the writers of the New Testament were words of Jesus, the Christ, through the Spirit. If Paul’s writings corrupted the church, then it was Christ who corrupted the church. I don’t think that is what you meant, but that is what you are saying.

Jesus appointed a certain one of his disciples to lead the church into the future, and as a kind of mystical-minded joke named the person, Peter. Petros. Which means, rock. This in turn meant, FOUNDATION. Peter was supposed to be the foundation of the church.

Peter was not to be the head of the church. There is only one Head and that is Christ (Colossians 1:18) and the statement that Jesus is the Christ, the son of God is the foundation of the gospel (1Corinthians 3:10-11).

But another man trumped him. And that man's name was Saul. This is the same man who made the incredible claim that over 500 people witnessed the risen Christ at the same time, at a gathering. Paul wasn't there. He was supposedly but simply reporting on the event. Passing it on in passing. Just a side remark. (Sorry I don't recall the chapter and verse.). (1Corinthians 15:1-11)

With that many witnesses one would think that the most incredible event of all time and history would have been reported also by others, considering just how many there was present.

A couple of things you need to consider. Paul was writing this chapter (1Cor. 15) to glorify the resurrection of Christ from the dead. He placed no emphasis on himself. The resurrection of Christ was unique in that the body that Christ received was one that was fitted for eternity. He was buried a physical body, but raised a spiritual body. A real body, but changed into a glorious one (1Cor 15:35-49). Because there were so many witnesses, when the resurrection of Christ was proclaimed (Acts) there is no questioning by the Jews, no rejection by the disciples, for what they proclaimed was known to be true. Accepting or rejecting the resurrection was another matter.

All through his writings he sets the tone for modern day Evangelists' style of preaching, like the "fundamental" exaggerated performances. It's like Paul sanctified it all.

I find the preaching of Paul and his writings as totally opposite to what you are saying. Do you have some examples to justify the way you feel?

Have you studied about Paul and how he had been a Roman soldier bent on persecution of Christians?

Paul was not a Roman soldier. He was part of the Jewish religion and under orders by the Jewish temple officials (high priest) to arrest and put to death believers (Acts 9:1-2; Galatians 1:13-14).

Since Paul was not a Roman soldier and had no part of a cultic religion, the following illustration concerning his participation in Mithraism is bogus and is based on a false conception of Paul's faith.

Are you aware of the so-called, Secret Religion of the Roman Soldiers? That region was called, Mithraism. And one of the main features of this religion concerned the sending of a goat out in the desert to suffer and die as a sacrifice for the expiation of the sins committed that year by the Roman soldiers. I am going to claim here (though this is actually not my own idea) that what Paul mainly did was he took his Mithra religion and translated it into Christianity with the idea that Christ suffered and died on the cross for the ridding of sins of those that "believe" in him. All Paul's idea! He made it up. I am not aware that Jesus said anything about anything such matter as that, so modern Christianity is misnamed. It should be called, Paulinism. He mostly invented it.

The redemption of mankind from sin is the theme of the entire Bible. It was planned before the foundation of the world and will be complete when Christ returns. Paul knew nothing about the total plan of God. It was a mystery which was revealed to him by the Holy Spirit (God) (Ephesians :1-13). The Bible is not a randomly selected collection of writings. It has a purpose and that purpose is to reveal the plan of God to redeem the human race from sin. One of the main problems of modern Christianity is that it does not have a clue in consideration of metaphors.

I would agree with you here. Metaphors are the language of communicating to us by God. There is a wonderful book that helps to explain metaphors entitled “Plowshares & Pruning Hooks, Rethinking the Language of Biblical Prophecy and Apocalyptic” by D. Brent Sandy. I recommend this book when someone is having problems understand the way God communicates through the Bible.

Jesus was asked, "Why do you speak in parables." He said, to paraphrase it, "It is because you aren't ready to hear the straight dope. You have not spiritually matured enough, yet." And he indicated that there were incredible things he could tell, but none of it would be understood. So he makes a point to keep things simple by using parables, which are but symbolic stories. And those parables are just one type of symbology among many others in the Bible. But modern Christians, it seems, are no more mature than they were back at the start as they seem to have no clue as to the use of symbols, and, thus, dramatically, fanatically, take ideas and things at their face value.

That is true. However, all symbols, metaphors, figures of speech are based in truth or a reality. And all of them have a specific purpose.

Just as our governments of the world have become corrupted, so have religions. I sometimes watch the Sunday preachers on TV, in amazement. They are all very much alike. I believe they study each other. Copy each other's moves. I am astounded how anyone could accept any of that malarkey. Basically, it is all a scam business and art to suck wealth out of poor peoples pockets, and it hinges on what was done in the past by powerful people inventing ridged doctrines and beliefs for the sake of enslaving a population's mind body and soul. This is spiritual enslavement. To get really dramatic, here, it is like it's the work of the Devil himself. But the believers just close their minds to the idea of learning and evolving on their own power and initiative and become spiritually stuck as a result. Stopped. In a sense, dead. See? If one is not actively living one's life it is the same as being dead.

Again, you and I would agree about the some of the TV preachers. They are giving Christianity a bad rap by not speaking the truths of God. They are perverting the gospel and robbing the saints much like the priest and Pharisees who robbed the widows (Lk 20:45-47).

All who fail to live godly in Christ are truly spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1-3; 1Timothy 5:6).

The immediate foregoing is a point from a series of books I am working on which will be called, the GUIDE Book. It is a set of books concerning spiritual guidance, and alternate Dimensions of Consciousness, but I expect them to be seriously attacked by the fundamentalist community. Their subtitle, is, A Metaphorical Psychology Series. In an early draft stage they were asked for by the Professor of Psychology at the University of Duquesne in Pittsburgh for use as text books. But they were not developed enough for me feel I could let them go yet.

A critical analysis of every work SHOULD be done to see if what is being taught is truth. Your own statements about TV preachers, Paul, or the teachings of others is a validation of the need for a critical look at what you have written. That's part of the journey in writing. If it is a valid truth, it will stand under the pressure. If it is not, then it needs to fall as false.

You mentioned about how Jesus emphasized the idea that one should remain in a state of expectation, in my terms. My books present the understanding that one needs to expect the unexpected. The idea is that such an attitude keeps one from developing a closed mind. It helps to keep one alive, alert. On one's toes. It is a means for enabling a quality of spiritual vitality to ever be present. It allows Life Force to be able to enter the body and the mind. And, tell me, WHAT MODERN RELIGION TEACHES ANYTHING LIKE THIS? None do. At least, as far as I know. I say, they all fail. They actually oppose congregation members from doing doing anything but BELIEVING what they are told to believe. No inquiry such as you are doing is permitted. No investigation. It's like such questioning is the work of the Devil, himself, at least this is the idea stemming from the modern pulpit, or the TV screen.

I know for sure that you and I have a totally different experience with Christianity. I was raised with believing parents who encourage an open minded and an enquiry into what was being taught. Christians who do not question what they have been taught and find out for themselves the truthfulness or falsity of their belief system are borrowing their faith. Faith is a constant questioning. I have encouraged my daughter (one child now 43) to make her faith real by questioning and observing, listening and learning what God is telling us. Questioning is good, but if you accept all teaching as being truth, you will reject everything.

We live in a truly Dark Age.

My apologies to Ice and Estewart. The article is estewarts. My bad.

[chocolate1]

My apologies to Ice and Estewart. The article is estewarts. My bad.

thanks, Nelg. You are very refreshing...

[ATHIM]

(A) Personally, I agree with you concerning the rapture (not rupture). But when you make your point, do so with the Scripture and do not immediately proclaim something as "false doctrine." If it is false, show us from the Bible. Your word or mind means nothing unless it can be verified by what the Spirit has revealed to us. Are we to be taken up after the tribulation, then show me from the word.

( You make a statement about "those who long to die" or desiring the "death of the soul" being in Hades. I don't find that in the Scripture, can you give me a Bible reference?

© You quoted the passage in John 6:53 where Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you." But He continues to say, "Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

In the context of the chapter, Jesus is speaking to the crowd who wanted a sign from Him. He quickly directs them to their real problem, they did not believe in Jesus as being from God. His answer is that to do the work of God is to believe (6:28-29). The entire section, John 6:25-68, is a discourse and challenge to the followers to believe in Him. The "eating of His flesh" and "drinking of the blood" is a metaphor for believing in Him. Note John 6:55-58 Jesus compares Himself to the "manna" given by God to the Hebrews in the wilderness. As they (Hebrew fathers) ate the manna and lived, so if we "eat" the "bread of life" (Christ) we will live. This is not really a mystery.

As a general observation, it is interesting that, primarily Protestants, want everything proven with scripture and yet the scriptures (New Testament) were not compiled until 300 years after the Church was established at Pentecost. The Church taught, as Jesus did, face to face, life to life, word to word, tradition to tradition, understanding of scripture to understanding. If you do not have an interpreter to reveal the truth of the scriptures then you are like the gurus trying to predict the RV. There is a holy tradition associated with the One Church which gives the proper interpretation of scripture and without this guide you are flawed. The Spirit of God did not reveal the scriptures to us as an isolated, stand alone reference book, it was given as a suppliment to living tradition established by Jesus and the Apostles.

Fundamental Heresies were disproved at the Ecumenical Councils by Bishops and Fathers of the Church and the teachings were canonized to become the Churches Doctrine. To sum up these beliefs and truths about God’s incarnation they gave us the Apostolic Creed which believers have spoken as the truth about God’s Son Jesus Christ for around 1,700 years. The Bible is a powerful Icon in the Church but yet, it is only one Icon and without the living tradition of the faith it can be a weapon of mass soul destruction. I do not have the truth, You do not have the truth, the Church has the truth and it is not open to interpretation or discussion, you either accept it or you are outside of the truth established by Jesus Himself and divinely revealed through His living Apostles and Saints of which we are not yet proven to be.

(A) Matthew 24:29-31

But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory

( Those who long to die is a reference to Revelation 9:6 “In those days people will seek death but will not find it. They will long to die, but death will flee from them!” It is in Hades though that the soul will seek death but will not find it eternally. The smoke of their torment will be unending. The scripture though refers to earthly torment.

© This is absolutely a Mystery that’s why people don’t get it. What Jesus says and does cannot be taken in isolation, His revelation of Divine truth came on a daily basis and all aspects of His ministry were intertwined. You are mistaken in your understanding about this scripture as Jesus Himself rebukes you.

John 6: 52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?” Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.” It is not a metaphor; it is the foundation of our faith, confirmed by Jesus on multiple occasions and formalized into a new covenant at the Last Supper. It is the Holy Body and Blood of Christ that cleanses sinners who approach Him with faith, fear and love.

Merely saying you have been “Washed in the blood of the Lamb”, does not make it so, just as much as saying “I am saved” does not make it so. Being washed in the blood of the Lamb relates to the intimate connection we have with the Eucharist, we receive God into our bodies for the remission of sins and for life eternal. And as with all of Christ’s truth, this is not a single act that ensures salvation it is carried out in accordance with the teachings of the Church and the other Mysteries of salvation including Baptism, Chrismation, Holy Unction, Confession, Eucharist, Marriage and Ordination in conjunction with repentance, Prayer and Fasting. The differences between Christian understandings, the denominations, come down to how they interpret and approach the Eucharist.

Just for the record I am a Greek I speak and read both Greek and English. I am an Orthodox Christian and for me and Our Church it really is only a question of whether we are spiritually alive or not.

Edited September 1, 2011 by ATHIM

[estewart]

My apologies to Ice and Estewart. The article is estewarts. My bad.

I had to copy out and paste below your reply because it was all embedded within a quote, and otherwise, unaccessable for in a new reply.

Nelg, on 31 August 2011 - 01:58 PM, said:

Whoa! I am in awe. Never thought I would ever be impressed by anyone thumping the Bible, so to speak. Pretty impressive, indeed. Prolly hurt a few poor peep's feelings, here, though. You will likely experience a strong back lash. So, gird yourself.

I am interested in the extent of your studies, ice. Have you studied about Paul? I should maybe mention I have a real respect for authentic words of Jesus (the so called Lord's Prayer isn't among them), but little for Paul. In my view, the Christian church became utterly corrupted at the onset, and by Paul. <br style="mso-special-character:line-break"> <br style="mso-special-character:line-break">

Just a question, Why do you think Paul corrupted the church? My thoughts are totally different. Paul, as well as the other writers of the New Testament, were writing under the inspiration and direction of the Holy Spirit (Jno 14:16-21), which was the Spirit of Christ (14:18 ). So all the words of the writers of the New Testament were words of Jesus, the Christ, through the Spirit. If Paul’s writings corrupted the church, then it was Christ who corrupted the church. I don’t think that is what you meant, but that is what you are saying.

It is easy to make claims. I can also claim that my own work was spiritually inspired. In fact, most of the original drafts were penned as fast as I could write immediately after waking, as I bent to get down on paper all the words that had passed through my mind in dream. But claims like this are unprovable as to their validity, exactly the same as claims that Jesus, himself, inspired Paul's et al's writings. It is an empty idea and carries no weight. Actually, Paul was illiterate and simply dictated to a scribe, not that that makes any difference.I am not going to be delving into the considerable differences between Jesus' teaching and Paul's dogma, here. But I did mention already about salvation and elimination of sins.Jesus appointed a certain one of his disciples to lead the church into the future, and as a kind of mystical-minded joke named the person, Peter. Petros. Which means, rock. This in turn meant, FOUNDATION. Peter was supposed to be the foundation of the church.

Peter was not to be the head of the church. There is only one Head and that is Christ (Colossians 1:18) and the statement that Jesus is the Christ, the son of God is the foundation of the gospel (1Corinthians 3:10-11). WHAT I meant was leader of the physical church as a material entity. Not spiritual. Peter, as I said, was meant to be the foundation, as it were, and Jesus stated this clear.

"In concert with His redemptive act, Jesus did three things that established the framework of His Church. First, He chose humans to carry out His work. He appointed Peter to be the visible head of the Church. Jesus said to Peter, "You are Rock and on this rock I will build my Church." (Matthew 16: 18) Jesus said "build," as in to create a structure. Jesus built His structure on specifically chosen human beings Peter and the apostles.http://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/churb1.htmBut Paul jumped in and overthrew Jesus' plan. Hah! Fact.But another man trumped him. And that man's name was Saul. This is the same man who made the incredible claim that over 500 people witnessed the risen Christ at the same time, at a gathering. Paul wasn't there. He was supposedly but simply reporting on the event. Passing it on in passing. Just a side remark. (Sorry I don't recall the chapter and verse.). (1Corinthians 15:1-11)

With that many witnesses one would think that the most incredible event of all time and history would have been reported also by others, considering just how many there was present. A couple of things you need to consider. Paul was writing this chapter (1Cor. 15) to glorify the resurrection of Christ from the dead. He placed no emphasis on himself. The resurrection of Christ was unique in that the body that Christ received was one that was fitted for eternity. He was buried a physical body, but raised a spiritual body. A real body, but changed into a glorious one (1Cor 15:35-49). Because there were so many witnesses, when the resurrection of Christ was proclaimed (Acts) there is no questioning by the Jews, no rejection by the disciples, for what they proclaimed was known to be true. Accepting or rejecting the resurrection was another matter. Yeah but this wild exaggeration is obviously deliberately ignored by modern churches and even by the Evangalists it is so far fetched. Whenever I bring it up no Christian I have ever talked to even believes the Bible tells about the 500. They think I'm making that wild claim up. It's too fantastic.

All through his writings he sets the tone for modern day Evangelists' style of preaching, like the "fundamental" exaggerated performances. It's like Paul sanctified it all.

I find the preaching of Paul and his writings as totally opposite to what you are saying. Do you have some examples to justify the way you feel?

I don't have anything prepared and am too preocupied with other matters to dig it all up. It is likely though that there exist books with the understanding already laid out. I will research this issue some time.Have you studied about Paul and how he had been a Roman soldier bent on persecution of Christians?

Paul was not a Roman soldier. He was part of the Jewish religion and under orders by the Jewish temple officials (high priest) to arrest and put to death believers (Acts 9:1-2; Galatians 1:13-14).

Since Paul was not a Roman soldier and had no part of a cultic religion, the following illustration concerning his participation in Mithraism is bogus and is based on a false conception of Paul's faith.

In those days with VERY RARE exception a young man did not entered his father's trade. Doing the same work one's father did was the normal way to go.

There are many who like to believe that Jesus was a fisherman. He was not. He was a carpenter by trade. And that was the early main reason he ventured about, doing construction jobs where ever they might be found.Paul was a Roman because his father was, and in his writings he put a great deal of emphasis on Roman Soldiers and their sword as metaphor because he thought like a Roman Soldier because he had been one.It was many years before the existence of the Internet I understood that Paul was a Roman Soldier and was into Mithraism.It's not just my idea."Saul was well educated and highly trained as a Roman citizen, though he was an Armenian by birth. He and his family were well known Pharisees of Tarsus. He spoke several languages as well as Latin, the language of the "empire". Early in his life he became a Roman soldier, and because of his nationality, he was placed in Jerusalem as a key person to both understand and help control the native Palestinians. Saul and his Roman troops closely followed the developments of the "christian cult" led by Esu (Jesus) Immanuel in Palestine."http://www.truthwinds.com/siterun_data/bellringers_corner/people_of_the_lie/news.php?q=1225075901"Roman Soldier and Paul’s Metaphors of the Christian Life"The apostle Paul wisely used everyday, common things that the people he was ministering to could relate to when teaching spiritual truths. One of his frequently used metaphors came from the life of the Roman soldier. Several times Paul used the soldiers armor as a metaphor for the Christian life. For example, in 1 Thessalonians 5:8 Paul employs the breastplate and helmet of the soldier in an effort to show how faith, hope and love are the Christians powerful defenses in difficult times. Here is a picture that gives us an idea of what Paul had in mind with this. . . . " http://prolepticlife.wordpress.com/2011/05/17/roman-soldier-and-pauls-metaphors-of-the-christian-life/"It always possible to recognize Saint Paul by his iconographic attributes: A sword and a book. Legend tells us that Saint Paul was a Roman soldier (hence the sword) who was converted to belief in the Holy Scriptures (the book) by an appearance of Christ on the Road to Damascus."http://italytravelista.com/rome-basilica-of-saint-paul-churches-in-rome/"There are also some similarities between events in Josephus' alleged life and that told of Paul (Saul) of the New Testament. Both Josephus and Paul, in the early years of their lives, subscribed to the sect of the Pharisees. Paul changed his name from the Jewish "Saul" to the Roman Paul (Paulus). Josephus changed his name from the Jewish "Joseph ben Matthias" to the Roman "Josephus." Paul was a Roman soldier before being converted to Christianity and Josephus was said to be a priest before becoming a Jewish army commander. Both Josephus and Paul were said to have made a similar disastrous sea voyage to Rome, in the same 62-64 CE time period, as a result of an interview with Felix, the Roman governor of Caesarea. Both were writers while residing in Rome, both changed their allegiance to their governments; Paul, from the Romans to the Christian Jews, and Josephus from his Jewish background to Roman citizenship, and both Paul and Josephus were apparently about the same age." http://sidneyrigdon.com/vern/Vern2000.htm

Are you aware of the so-called, Secret Religion of the Roman Soldiers? That region was called, Mithraism. And one of the main features of this religion concerned the sending of a goat out in the desert to suffer and die as a sacrifice for the expiation of the sins committed that year by the Roman soldiers. I am going to claim here (though this is actually not my own idea) that what Paul mainly did was he took his Mithra religion and translated it into Christianity with the idea that Christ suffered and died on the cross for the ridding of sins of those that "believe" in him. All Paul's idea! He made it up. I am not aware that Jesus said anything about anything such matter as that, so modern Christianity is misnamed. It should be called, Paulinism. He mostly invented it.

The redemption of mankind from sin is the theme of the entire Bible. It was planned before the foundation of the world and will be complete when Christ returns. Paul knew nothing about the total plan of God. It was a mystery which was revealed to him by the Holy Spirit (God) (Ephesians :1-13). The Bible is not a randomly selected collection of writings. It has a purpose and that purpose is to reveal the plan of God to redeem the human race from sin. One of the main problems of modern Christianity is that it does not have a clue in consideration of metaphors.

I would agree with you here. Metaphors are the language of communicating to us by God. There is a wonderful book that helps to explain metaphors entitled “Plowshares & Pruning Hooks, Rethinking the Language of Biblical Prophecy and Apocalyptic” by D. Brent Sandy. I recommend this book when someone is having problems understand the way God communicates through the Bible. A good statement.Jesus was asked, "Why do you speak in parables." He said, to paraphrase it, "It is because you aren't ready to hear the straight dope. You have not spiritually matured enough, yet." And he indicated that there were incredible things he could tell, but none of it would be understood. So he makes a point to keep things simple by using parables, which are but symbolic stories. And those parables are just one type of symbology among many others in the Bible. But modern Christians, it seems, are no more mature than they were back at the start as they seem to have no clue as to the use of symbols, and, thus, dramatically, fanatically, take ideas and things at their face value.

That is true. However, all symbols, metaphors, figures of speech are based in truth or a reality. And all of them have a specific purpose. True. They have meaning or there's no point to them.Just as our governments of the world have become corrupted, so have religions. I sometimes watch the Sunday preachers on TV, in amazement. They are all very much alike. I believe they study each other. Copy each other's moves. I am astounded how anyone could accept any of that malarkey. Basically, it is all a scam business and art to suck wealth out of poor peoples pockets, and it hinges on what was done in the past by powerful people inventing ridged doctrines and beliefs for the sake of enslaving a population's mind body and soul. This is spiritual enslavement. To get really dramatic, here, it is like it's the work of the Devil himself. But the believers just close their minds to the idea of learning and evolving on their own power and initiative and become spiritually stuck as a result. Stopped. In a sense, dead. See? If one is not actively living one's life it is the same as being dead.

Again, you and I would agree about the some of the TV preachers. They are giving Christianity a bad rap by not speaking the truths of God. They are perverting the gospel and robbing the saints much like the priest and Pharisees who robbed the widows (Lk 20:45-47).

All who fail to live godly in Christ are truly spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1-3; 1Timothy 5:6).

Time again some famous evangelist can find his career ruined as a result of a scandalous situation occurring which reveals that the evangelist is the very thing he preaches so strongly against, while collecting millions. TV Evangelism has nothing to do with religion. It is a business, and generally falsely set up as a non-profit corporation. Those mega-churches compare. One of those failed in Texas a couple of years ago, so there is hope that people are beginning to see the light.The immediate foregoing is a point from a series of books I am working on which will be called, the GUIDE Book. It is a set of books concerning spiritual guidance, and alternate Dimensions of Consciousness, but I expect them to be seriously attacked by the fundamentalist community. Their subtitle, is, A Metaphorical Psychology Series. In an early draft stage they were asked for by the Professor of Psychology at the University of Duquesne in Pittsburgh for use as text books. But they were not developed enough for me feel I could let them go yet.

A critical analysis of every work SHOULD be done to see if what is being taught is truth. Your own statements about TV preachers, Paul, or the teachings of others is a validation of the need for a critical look at what you have written. That's part of the journey in writing. If it is a valid truth, it will stand under the pressure. If it is not, then it needs to fall as false. VERY true. But the material needs to be able to physically endure a degree of time for a true testing to occur which can prove validity. Such "proof" may not be available in its early days.THAT IS WHY I need the RV. HOWEVER, I had a vivid dream a few weeks ago. A very pronounced and effectual one, too, wherein I was told that I would be being given a "gift." Upon waking I consider how that could be the RV. Maybe. Need it for the work to eastablish a Foundation to hold the copyright. I plan for the work to out live me. And it will if I set it up right I will be publishing in several forms and this includes digital. In many cases one can buy sample copies of digital books (say, one third) for 99 cents. They allow one to view a considerable portion of a book. One will easiliy be able to know whether the book is any good. I plan to offer this feature. But not soon.You mentioned about how Jesus emphasized the idea that one should remain in a state of expectation, in my terms. My books present the understanding that one needs to expect the unexpected. The idea is that such an attitude keeps one from developing a closed mind. It helps to keep one alive, alert. On one's toes. It is a means for enabling a quality of spiritual vitality to ever be present. It allows Life Force to be able to enter the body and the mind. And, tell me, WHAT MODERN RELIGION TEACHES ANYTHING LIKE THIS? None do. At least, as far as I know. I say, they all fail. They actually oppose congregation members from doing doing anything but BELIEVING what they are told to believe. No inquiry such as you are doing is permitted. No investigation. It's like such questioning is the work of the Devil, himself, at least this is the idea stemming from the modern pulpit, or the TV screen.

I know for sure that you and I have a totally different experience with Christianity. I was raised with believing parents who encourage an open minded and an enquiry into what was being taught. Christians who do not question what they have been taught and find out for themselves the truthfulness or falsity of their belief system are borrowing their faith. Faith is a constant questioning. I have encouraged my daughter (one child now 43) to make her faith real by questioning and observing, listening and learning what God is telling us. Questioning is good, but if you accept all teaching as being truth, you will reject everything. You are no ordinary man. Modern dogma holds that questioning is doubt which stems from the Devil, himself. So the preaching is that it is best to avoid any questioning. Or at least, that is the idea if one wishes to be a worthy Christian, while remaining fundamentally a fool.We live in a truly Dark Age.

Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/81874-in-the-twinkling-of-an-eye/page__st__40#ixzz1WeOln8Vi

[estewart]

As a general observation, it is interesting that, primarily Protestants, want everything proven with scripture and yet the scriptures (New Testament) were not compiled until 300 years after the Church was established at Pentecost. The Church taught, as Jesus did, face to face, life to life, word to word, tradition to tradition, understanding of scripture to understanding. If you do not have an interpreter to reveal the truth of the scriptures then you are like the gurus trying to predict the RV. There is a holy tradition associated with the One Church which gives the proper interpretation of scripture and without this guide you are flawed. The Spirit of God did not reveal the scriptures to us as an isolated, stand alone reference book, it was given as a suppliment to living tradition established by Jesus and the Apostles.

Fundamental Heresies were disproved at the Ecumenical Councils by Bishops and Fathers of the Church and the teachings were canonized to become the Churches Doctrine. To sum up these beliefs and truths about God’s incarnation they gave us the Apostolic Creed which believers have spoken as the truth about God’s Son Jesus Christ for around 1,700 years. The Bible is a powerful Icon in the Church but yet, it is only one Icon and without the living tradition of the faith it can be a weapon of mass soul destruction. I do not have the truth, You do not have the truth, the Church has the truth and it is not open to interpretation or discussion, you either accept it or you are outside of the truth established by Jesus Himself and divinely revealed through His living Apostles and Saints of which we are not yet proven to be.

(A) Matthew 24:29-31

But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory

( Those who long to die is a reference to Revelation 9:6 “In those days people will seek death but will not find it. They will long to die, but death will flee from them!” It is in Hades though that the soul will seek death but will not find it eternally. The smoke of their torment will be unending. The scripture though refers to earthly torment.

© This is absolutely a Mystery that’s why people don’t get it. What Jesus says and does cannot be taken in isolation, His revelation of Divine truth came on a daily basis and all aspects of His ministry were intertwined. You are mistaken in your understanding about this scripture as Jesus Himself rebukes you.

John 6: 52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?” Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.” It is not a metaphor; it is the foundation of our faith, confirmed by Jesus on multiple occasions and formalized into a new covenant at the Last Supper. It is the Holy Body and Blood of Christ that cleanses sinners who approach Him with faith, fear and love.

Merely saying you have been “Washed in the blood of the Lamb”, does not make it so, just as much as saying “I am saved” does not make it so. Being washed in the blood of the Lamb relates to the intimate connection we have with the Eucharist, we receive God into our bodies for the remission of sins and for life eternal. And as with all of Christ’s truth, this is not a single act that ensures salvation it is carried out in accordance with the teachings of the Church and the other Mysteries of salvation including Baptism, Chrismation, Holy Unction, Confession, Eucharist, Marriage and Ordination in conjunction with repentance, Prayer and Fasting. The differences between Christian understandings, the denominations, come down to how they interpret and approach the Eucharist.

Just for the record I am a Greek I speak and read both Greek and English. I am an Orthodox Christian and for me and Our Church it really is only a question of whether we are spiritually alive or not.

Truly excellent post.

One of the reasons, if not the ONLY reason, you can see modern Protestants preaching the Gospel on the internet the way they do is because it is all they know. In their involvement with other "Christians" the accepted practice is to learn and memorize all the key buzz words and phrases being commonly exchanged. And when one is able to "share" with others parroting glibly the accepted and expected jargon then one can fit in and belong to the the group. And not otherwise. Any involvement with the understanding of ideas is not a part of this. And the TV Evangelists apply this situation to the hilt, powerfully. In modern times, in the US, for the most part, being a Christian is not a matter of any extent of of understanding or realization or any form of revelation, it is a matter of simply claiming that one has been SAVED (WAHOO!) and skilluly being able to throw one's hands in the air in churches and acting wild together with the rest of the group. NEVER MIND that Jesus said to go into one's closet, alone, to pray. Spiritual matters are a personal private affairs and the blatantly displayed public performances are but pure fraud. I am convinced if Jesus suddenly appeared in our midst today He would say exactly the same thing I just did.

[Sam T]

Oh? Have you ever actually had a true cosmic experience? Have you ever traveled out of your physical body into other more advance worlds that exist? Or are just believing in the limited beliefs that have been laid on you to box in your soul within a very limited scope or sense of Reality?

That's true, we do have choices. In FACT, we are forced to choose every step of the way through life. Or we can choose not to choose. Our choice.

The result of the choices made, if any, can bring experience which can become KNOWLEDGE. Do you have knowledge based upon experience or merely beliefs? Beliefs are the opposite of true knowledge, you know.

If you tell me you have a belief about this or that you will be telling me you do not actually know about the matter due to a lack of genuine experience.

Question 1 Yes

Question 2 NO but to another realm.

Question 3 NO

What about you ?

[estewart]

Question 1 Yes

Question 2 NO but to another realm.

Question 3 NO

What about you ?

Yes.

Yes.

No.

[Nelg]

As a general observation, it is interesting that, primarily Protestants, want everything proven with scripture and yet the scriptures (New Testament) were not compiled until 300 years after the Church was established at Pentecost.

The Scriptures of the NT were circulated and were being used before the end of the first century. By mid second century the complete NT had been written and copies were being distributed to existing and developing churches. Catholics are taught that the NT did not come into existence until “300 years” after the church was established at Pentecost.

By the way, I am not a Protestant, Catholic, or Jew. I am simply a Christian, a saint, a believer in Christ.

The Church taught, as Jesus did, face to face, life to life, word to word, tradition to tradition, understanding of scripture to understanding. If you do not have an interpreter to reveal the truth of the scriptures then you are like the gurus trying to predict the RV. There is a holy tradition associated with the One Church which gives the proper interpretation of scripture and without this guide you are flawed. The Spirit of God did not reveal the scriptures to us as an isolated, stand alone reference book, it was given as a suppliment to living tradition established by Jesus and the Apostles.

As a child of God, a priest of God, and a saint of God I am part of the Church of the Living God. I am also indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and he assists me in understand the Scripture. He does not give the saint a revelation or inter moving to let me know whether it is true or not, but His assistance is still there. I study the word of God, read history, study language, and use sound exegetical principles. These writers also help me. I do not need an official from any religion to tell me what the Bible says. If I did, it would be their faith and not mine.

Fundamental Heresies were disproved at the Ecumenical Councils by Bishops and Fathers of the Church and the teachings were canonized to become the Churches Doctrine. To sum up these beliefs and truths about God’s incarnation they gave us the Apostolic Creed which believers have spoken as the truth about God’s Son Jesus Christ for around 1,700 years.

I have but one creed, the Bible. All other creeds are unnecessary and only tend to codify rather than clarify. I have read and have copies of all the creeds, but I find them tiresome. Why do I need them when I have all of what they say in the Bible?

The Bible is a powerful Icon in the Church but yet, it is only one Icon and without the living tradition of the faith it can be a weapon of mass soul destruction. I do not have the truth, You do not have the truth, the Church has the truth and it is not open to interpretation or discussion, you either accept it or you are outside of the truth established by Jesus Himself and divinely revealed through His living Apostles and Saints of which we are not yet proven to be.

I accept the truth of Christ, the truth of the Bible, and the truth of salvation it reveals. I do not accept the teaching of Protestantism or Catholicism or any tradition except where they agree with the Bible. To say that the truth is not open for interpretation is close-minded and arrogant. Yet Scripture tells me that because of my trust and obedience, I am “in Christ” and indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

(A) Matthew 24:29-31

But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The prophets and saints have been experiencing tribulation since the teaching of God started being proclaimed. The prophets suffered death and so did many saints. Tribulation is not new. It marked the rejection of God and the promise of physical judgment of those that were ejectors.

The passage you quoted is taken from a discourse about the destruction of the temple, a passage used in the OT to describe a “day of the Lord” or judgment upon a nation or people (Babylon – Isa 13; Edom – Isa 34:8; 63:4); Egypt – Jer 46:10; Ezk 30:3; Philistia – Jer 47:4). Specifically the quote comes from Isaiah 13:10; Ezk 32:7; Joel 2:10, 31; 3:5. Jesus was using those passages to tell the Jewish nation that they and the temple will be destroyed. This took place in 70 AD. Jesus even says, “this generation will not pass away until all these things take place” (Mt 24:34); by “this generation” Jesus was speaking of the Jewish nation of Israel who had rejected Him as the Messiah.

( Those who long to die is a reference to Revelation 9:6 “In those days people will seek death but will not find it. They will long to die, but death will flee from them!” It is in Hades though that the soul will seek death but will not find it eternally. The smoke of their torment will be unending. The scripture though refers to earthly torment.

© This is absolutely a Mystery that’s why people don’t get it. What Jesus says and does cannot be taken in isolation, His revelation of Divine truth came on a daily basis and all aspects of His ministry were intertwined. You are mistaken in your understanding about this scripture as Jesus Himself rebukes you.

I don’t think I am mistaken. The passages are not that difficult to understand, especially when you allow Christ to explain what He means. Not much mystery to that.

John 6: 52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?” Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.” It is not a metaphor; it is the foundation of our faith, confirmed by Jesus on multiple occasions and formalized into a new covenant at the Last Supper. It is the Holy Body and Blood of Christ that cleanses sinners who approach Him with faith, fear and love.

I know that you have been told that this passage refers to the Last Supper, but those who told you and you are mistaken. This passage is speaking of Jesus being the “bread of life” and that one must believe in Him (eat His flesh) to obtain eternal life.

The passages of Matthew 26; Luke 22; Mark 14; 1Corinthians 11 speak of the Last Supper or the Lord’s Supper or Communion. I don’t care if you believe transubstantiation, consubstantiation, or that the elements only represent the body and blood of Christ. This did establish an new covenant between Christ and the saints. My personal belief is that it represents the body and blood of Christ. But partaking of the emblems has no part in the forgiveness of sin. Only our participation with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection does that. What he did at the cross gives forgiveness and not the partaking of communion.

Merely saying you have been “Washed in the blood of the Lamb”, does not make it so, just as much as saying “I am saved” does not make it so. Being washed in the blood of the Lamb relates to the intimate connection we have with the Eucharist, we receive God into our bodies for the remission of sins and for life eternal. And as with all of Christ’s truth, this is not a single act that ensures salvation it is carried out in accordance with the teachings of the Church and the other Mysteries of salvation including Baptism, Chrismation, Holy Unction, Confession, Eucharist, Marriage and Ordination in conjunction with repentance, Prayer and Fasting. The differences between Christian understandings, the denominations, come down to how they interpret and approach the Eucharist.

The above teaching concerning the forgiveness of sin every time we take the communion is entirely false and you have been mislead. The interpretation is from man and not what the word of God says. Salvation in Christ is a single act of believing, repenting, and being baptized (Act 2:38). It is at that point that the person has the remission of sin and receives the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Just for the record I am a Greek I speak and read both Greek and English. I am an Orthodox Christian and for me and Our Church it really is only a question of whether we are spiritually alive or not.

Glad to know the above. I know enough Greek to read the NT and enough English (native language) to make myself understood most of the time.

As a general observation, it is interesting that, primarily Protestants, want everything proven with scripture and yet the scriptures (New Testament) were not compiled until 300 years after the Church was established at Pentecost.

The Scriptures of the NT were circulated and were being used before the end of the first century. By mid second century the complete NT had been written and copies were being distributed to existing and developing churches. Catholics are taught that the NT did not come into existence until “300 years” after the church was established at Pentecost.

By the way, I am not a Protestant, Catholic, or Jew. I am simply a Christian, a saint, a believer in Christ.

The Church taught, as Jesus did, face to face, life to life, word to word, tradition to tradition, understanding of scripture to understanding. If you do not have an interpreter to reveal the truth of the scriptures then you are like the gurus trying to predict the RV. There is a holy tradition associated with the One Church which gives the proper interpretation of scripture and without this guide you are flawed. The Spirit of God did not reveal the scriptures to us as an isolated, stand alone reference book, it was given as a suppliment to living tradition established by Jesus and the Apostles.

As a child of God, a priest of God, and a saint of God I am part of the Church of the Living God. I am also indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and he assists me in understand the Scripture. He does not give the saint a revelation or inter moving to let me know whether it is true or not, but His assistance is still there. I study the word of God, read history, study language, and use sound exegetical principles. These writers also help me. I do not need an official from any religion to tell me what the Bible says. If I did, it would be their faith and not mine.

Fundamental Heresies were disproved at the Ecumenical Councils by Bishops and Fathers of the Church and the teachings were canonized to become the Churches Doctrine. To sum up these beliefs and truths about God’s incarnation they gave us the Apostolic Creed which believers have spoken as the truth about God’s Son Jesus Christ for around 1,700 years.

I have but one creed, the Bible. All other creeds are unnecessary and only tend to codify rather than clarify. I have read and have copies of all the creeds, but I find them tiresome. Why do I need them when I have all of what they say in the Bible?

The Bible is a powerful Icon in the Church but yet, it is only one Icon and without the living tradition of the faith it can be a weapon of mass soul destruction. I do not have the truth, You do not have the truth, the Church has the truth and it is not open to interpretation or discussion, you either accept it or you are outside of the truth established by Jesus Himself and divinely revealed through His living Apostles and Saints of which we are not yet proven to be.

I accept the truth of Christ, the truth of the Bible, and the truth of salvation it reveals. I do not accept the teaching of Protestantism or Catholicism or any tradition except where they agree with the Bible. To say that the truth is not open for interpretation is close-minded and arrogant. Yet Scripture tells me that because of my trust and obedience, I am “in Christ” and indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

(A) Matthew 24:29-31

But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The prophets and saints have been experiencing tribulation since the teaching of God started being proclaimed. The prophets suffered death and so did many saints. Tribulation is not new. It marked the rejection of God and the promise of physical judgment of those that were ejectors.

The passage you quoted is taken from a discourse about the destruction of the temple, a passage used in the OT to describe a “day of the Lord” or judgment upon a nation or people (Babylon – Isa 13; Edom – Isa 34:8; 63:4); Egypt – Jer 46:10; Ezk 30:3; Philistia – Jer 47:4). Specifically the quote comes from Isaiah 13:10; Ezk 32:7; Joel 2:10, 31; 3:5. Jesus was using those passages to tell the Jewish nation that they and the temple will be destroyed. This took place in 70 AD. Jesus even says, “this generation will not pass away until all these things take place” (Mt 24:34); by “this generation” Jesus was speaking of the Jewish nation of Israel who had rejected Him as the Messiah.

( Those who long to die is a reference to Revelation 9:6 “In those days people will seek death but will not find it. They will long to die, but death will flee from them!” It is in Hades though that the soul will seek death but will not find it eternally. The smoke of their torment will be unending. The scripture though refers to earthly torment.

© This is absolutely a Mystery that’s why people don’t get it. What Jesus says and does cannot be taken in isolation, His revelation of Divine truth came on a daily basis and all aspects of His ministry were intertwined. You are mistaken in your understanding about this scripture as Jesus Himself rebukes you.

I don’t think I am mistaken. The passages are not that difficult to understand, especially when you allow Christ to explain what He means. Not much mystery to that.

John 6: 52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?” Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.” It is not a metaphor; it is the foundation of our faith, confirmed by Jesus on multiple occasions and formalized into a new covenant at the Last Supper. It is the Holy Body and Blood of Christ that cleanses sinners who approach Him with faith, fear and love.

I know that you have been told that this passage refers to the Last Supper, but those who told you and you are mistaken. This passage is speaking of Jesus being the “bread of life” and that one must believe in Him (eat His flesh) to obtain eternal life.

The passages of Matthew 26; Luke 22; Mark 14; 1Corinthians 11 speak of the Last Supper or the Lord’s Supper or Communion. I don’t care if you believe transubstantiation, consubstantiation, or that the elements only represent the body and blood of Christ. This did establish an new covenant between Christ and the saints. My personal belief is that it represents the body and blood of Christ. But partaking of the emblems has no part in the forgiveness of sin. Only our participation with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection does that. What he did at the cross gives forgiveness and not the partaking of communion.

Merely saying you have been “Washed in the blood of the Lamb”, does not make it so, just as much as saying “I am saved” does not make it so. Being washed in the blood of the Lamb relates to the intimate connection we have with the Eucharist, we receive God into our bodies for the remission of sins and for life eternal. And as with all of Christ’s truth, this is not a single act that ensures salvation it is carried out in accordance with the teachings of the Church and the other Mysteries of salvation including Baptism, Chrismation, Holy Unction, Confession, Eucharist, Marriage and Ordination in conjunction with repentance, Prayer and Fasting. The differences between Christian understandings, the denominations, come down to how they interpret and approach the Eucharist.

The above teaching concerning the forgiveness of sin every time we take the communion is entirely false and you have been mislead. The interpretation is from man and not what the word of God says. Salvation in Christ is a single act of believing, repenting, and being baptized (Act 2:38). It is at that point that the person has the remission of sin and receives the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Just for the record I am a Greek I speak and read both Greek and English. I am an Orthodox Christian and for me and Our Church it really is only a question of whether we are spiritually alive or not.

Glad to know the above. I know enough Greek to read the NT and enough English (native language) to make myself understood most of the time.

[cooked]

i like the twinkle in Sophia Laurens eyes.

Here little pink piggy piggy

[SFlorida]

Another Harold Camping story.