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This is freaking me out!

NYer

By NYer,
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NYer Newbie

NYer

Posted
Posted

Please click on the link below. This is an article that most of us have already read but scroll down and start to read the comments posted by Brian along with the debate that ensues.

Please don't bash me as I am not a naysayer but I don't want to walk around with my head in the clouds either.

I would love to hear your take on this.

It is a lengthy read but worth the time.

http://www.rferl.org/articleprintview/24245867.html?showforum=1

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tmcgraw
tmcgraw

Simple math + logic = you've been duped Play the lotto

DAME1
DAME1

Oh thank you how can I ever repay you??? If it were simply math and logic you wouldn't be here........No one hangs out on a forum to warn people of nefarious currency scams.......

tmcgraw
tmcgraw

AN RV IS NOT POSSIBLE WITHOUT A RD. SIMPLE. NO OVERNIGHT MILLIONAIRES. SORRY BUT IT IS THE TRUTH

Dalite Newbie

Dalite

Posted
Posted

Please click on the link below. This is an article that most of us have already read but scroll down and start to read the comments posted by Brian along with the debate that ensues.

Please don't bash me as I am not a naysayer but I don't want to walk around with my head in the clouds either.

I would love to hear your take on this.

It is a lengthy read but worth the time.

http://www.rferl.org/articleprintview/24245867.html?showforum=1

I have the whole five pages saved in a rich text file, but have held off on posting.

He patiently takes on all rumors and answers factually.

I saw very little that could come into question in what he has posted.

It would take a fairly massive shift in policy and reasoning to arrive at another outcome.

Hopefully, I wait..

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DAME1 Newbie

DAME1

Posted
Posted

Simple math + logic = you've been duped

Play the lotto

Oh thank you how can I ever repay you???

If it were simply math and logic

you wouldn't be here........No one hangs out on a forum to warn people of nefarious currency scams.......

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DRV1804 Newbie

DRV1804

Posted
Posted

Oh thank you how can I ever repay you???

If it were simply math and logic

you wouldn't be here........No one hangs out on a forum to warn people of nefarious currency scams.......

LOL!! Good one Slum i needed that laugh..."oh thank you how can i ever repay you" :D:lol:

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tmcgraw Newbie

tmcgraw

Posted
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Everybody needs to read this article and all the responses by Brian. http://www.rferl.org/articleprintview/24245867.html?showforum=1

Open your eyes!!!!!

Here is one of the responses

It's a complete myth that they've been buying and hoarding it in vast quantities. If any country can just declare itself 1,000x richer, well, so can all those other countries! Maybe 6 other countries could "RV" after Iraq and you could invest one straight after the other - that way you'll be a Septillionaire! Maybe 150 countries could "RV" and you could be a Quinquagintacentillionaire! All of a sudden, reality starts to implode when you realize claimed "RV" in the way Dinar holders dream of is just printing money and pretending it's "different" because they want it to be! A real "RV" is a peg adjustment and no new banknotes are involved with that.

It's also rather meaningless to say "Iraq won't say they'll RV because it'll be like insider trading" if everyone already apparently "knows" the "super-ultra-secret" that it'll supposedly go up by 99,999% overnight given the amount of Internet pumper-chat-room hype. Do people really believe that Forex pros and much of the educated general public are sitting there scratching their heads not "getting it"? The real reason they've said it won't "RV" is quite simply because it won't - it'll "RD" instead. And I'll repeat it again : You cannot "print yourself richer" with fiat currencies. Not now, not ever.

"IMO I think this is 50% about Iraq and 50% to help all the other Governments and their countries around the world."

Iraq creating 99,999% more money overnight without selling a single drop more oil will *NOT* make either Iraq or the world richer, any more than Zimbabwe or WW2 Germany made it richer, it'll just export chronic inflation. $1,300 loaves of bread? No thanks! The world "saved" by a war-torn country with 15% unemployment, 12hr per day electricity supply and 0.18% of global GDP share? Keep it real people.

Ask yourself these common sense questions:-

1. If everyone ran out tomorrow and bought $1k worth of Dinar with the $10tn of US notes in circulation, where do you think the $10quadrillion would come from to give everyone $1m back other than printing it? Where do you think this 99,999% increased money supply falls into existence from?

2. The average Iraqi earns $2k-4k in Dinars. Do you seriously believe they'll be given $2-4m each year for sweeping the streets, and will be able to sell their old 1990's Toyotas for $5-10m and their 3rd-world houses for $50-75m each after the RD by changing up Dinars for $? Some of this stuff is bordering on insanity.

3. The total global GDP is approx $60tn of which Iraq's share is 0.18%. If that 0.18% is supposedly "magic" enough to sustain a $29tn Iraq money supply whilst the other $30tn is shared by 99.82% of the rest of the planet then by extension, you must also believe everyone else on the planet can magic $16 quadrillion into existence via similar "RV's" including Obama who can magic $4qdrn and will hand out $13m to every American all without inflation?

4. If Iraq's 0.18% is enough to sustain $29tn money, then by extension, the $60tn total global GDP can be substituted for just 0.37% GDP. Or in other words, everyone can just stop working, buying and selling, and constantly "RV" (print) themselves money and no inflation will occur anywhere because everyone on Earth will be a retired millionaire...

The sad truth is, some people are so brainwashed by this "millionaire for nothing" stuff, that when the RD does take place, they won't even understand it then and will just angrily shout at the exchange cashier they've had $999,000 promised money "stolen" by Iraq when they change their original $1k worth of Dinars back into $1k. Seriously people, if you truly believe the more money you print, the more value each note has and that printing enough for $1m each will make everyone rich with no other negative effect, then I have some magic beans to sell you...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Darin Newbie

Darin

Posted
Posted

Simple math + logic = you've been duped

Play the lotto

I suppose if you view a scenario negatively, if your right you won't be let down while if your wrong you'll end up pleasantly surprised.

But, claiming simple math & logic is rather a bold & naive claim. If it was obviously "that" simple.... None of us would be here.

Lets look at 4 scenarios (all possible outcomes)

1 - Re-denomination

2 - Re-denomination + Re-value (i.e., 1000:1 + R/V to $1 or $3.22)

3 - Long-term slow increase in value

4 - Re-value

Option 1:

A fear amongst many of us, as it is a neutral revenue event. Those who are familiar with stocks would consider this a reverse-stock split (As it is quite similar in some ways). The CBI has enough foreign cash reserves to pay out every IQD with the current exchange rate. Granted, at times, it may be necessary for them to do some exchanging and converting to pay out incoming notes. (I.e., converting gold to USD). So, ask yourself this... "Who would continue to hold IQD upon a re-denomination?" Speculative investors would be looking to cash out on a global scale. This would directly impact their net foreign reserves as a run on the banks would occur. Many would view that the % of return that they could potentially "seek" has greatly been reduced, so why continue to hold, right? It "would" greatly reduce their M1 & M2, which is good, but equally impact their net foreign cash reserves. The CBI could find themselves in a pinch where the exchange is for a currency like USD and they don't have enough to supply the exchange. (Probably would become a big problem). Within the region: It may not defeat a dollarization issue, belief in the IQD, and likely confusion.

Option 2:

The best case of a worst-case scenario. Whether they were to re-value at a $1 or $3 after a re-denomination would also impact their net foreign reserves. But more significantly, which could nearly deplete it. In my opinion, if this were to occur, those that hold physical notes such as the 000s would likely not benefit as this would occur after the time-frame of drawing in the 000s. So, to benefit, you would need to either exchange for new lower denominations or hold an account with warka. Exchanging for lower denominations would likely have mark-ups & fees not making the process feasible. Than, the question is remains on the stability of warka and if they are worth the trouble to make a move like that.

Option 3:

This would seem to be quite logical from an outside perspective. As the economy improves, so does the value of the dinar. The CBI could slowly pull in 000s from circulation while also slowly pulling in USD as well. This would reduce the M1/M2 figures and as export of crude is on the rise would help the over all economy. Each person would cash-out based upon the time they felt it was appropriate. Yet, the disadvantage of this, the likelihood some people would continue to buy IQD based upon crazy rumors. That region is only like to increase their export over time, however, they're population is likely to double within a short time-span as well. Other factors to consider: Their desire to enter a free-market society.

Option 4:

This is where 98% of the forum members are a fan of. A straight R/V of the IQD. We have seen rates as low as $0.01 to $3.00, but the questions remain on how the process would play out and make a straight-up R/V feasible. If the CBI were to follow with suggestions of the IMF and allow for monetizing of non-liquid assets, that alone would help increase the value. From my understanding, all assets that back the IQD currently today are liquid assets (I.e., USD, Gold, SDRs, and other foreign currencies). Moving from Article XIV to VIII would allow non-liquid assets (Assets not easily converted to liquid cash) as the backing of their currency. This would require a policy change in how they value their currency and other banking policies. It would give the value a significant increase. The CBI would maybe not be required to hold 10-20% of liquid assets while the 80-90% of non-liquid assets would back the currency. Overall, the IQD is still backed 100% (Just not only by liquid assets).

Other things to consider:

That particular region may not believe or use fractional banking, but other banks around the world may use that process. If any central bank were to currently sit on any IQD, any increase in the value of the IQD would directly effect their capital reserves. This would increase lending power to the domestic region of that particular central bank. I would give a run-down on how fractional banking works, but I believe many of understand that process.. So, most of the notes outside of the region such as the U.S., would have a good chance of never seeing the land of Iraq again. Other central banks around the world may look to exchange for the IQD to diversify the liquid assets they have to help feel any significant impact of a global shift (i.e., falling value of a dollar). So, a $1 may seem more enticing to other foreign central banks, while a $3 R/V would likely help with lending power.

So, if the CBI knew it would not technically be on the hook for a large portion of currencies outside of their region, they would benefit greatly from a R/V. Than, any backlogged foreign investors who jump into their region would help the overall economy.

This is only a theory - and how the process seems to possibly play out. It would help their region & have a significant global impact.

** I have no idea which route they'll choose... I just see a R/D or R/D + R/V potentially damaging..

So, for myself, if they do decide to R/D - I will be cashing out as soon as possible before a window of opportunity closes. (Than, I may consider looking into Warka or finding lower denoms at a reasonable price to than maybe make a profit.)

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Alex38 Newbie

Alex38

Posted
Posted

Everybody needs to read this article and all the responses by Brian. http://www.rferl.org/articleprintview/24245867.html?showforum=1

Open your eyes!!!!!

Here is one of the responses

It's a complete myth that they've been buying and hoarding it in vast quantities. If any country can just declare itself 1,000x richer, well, so can all those other countries! Maybe 6 other countries could "RV" after Iraq and you could invest one straight after the other - that way you'll be a Septillionaire! Maybe 150 countries could "RV" and you could be a Quinquagintacentillionaire! All of a sudden, reality starts to implode when you realize claimed "RV" in the way Dinar holders dream of is just printing money and pretending it's "different" because they want it to be! A real "RV" is a peg adjustment and no new banknotes are involved with that.

It's also rather meaningless to say "Iraq won't say they'll RV because it'll be like insider trading" if everyone already apparently "knows" the "super-ultra-secret" that it'll supposedly go up by 99,999% overnight given the amount of Internet pumper-chat-room hype. Do people really believe that Forex pros and much of the educated general public are sitting there scratching their heads not "getting it"? The real reason they've said it won't "RV" is quite simply because it won't - it'll "RD" instead. And I'll repeat it again : You cannot "print yourself richer" with fiat currencies. Not now, not ever.

"IMO I think this is 50% about Iraq and 50% to help all the other Governments and their countries around the world."

Iraq creating 99,999% more money overnight without selling a single drop more oil will *NOT* make either Iraq or the world richer, any more than Zimbabwe or WW2 Germany made it richer, it'll just export chronic inflation. $1,300 loaves of bread? No thanks! The world "saved" by a war-torn country with 15% unemployment, 12hr per day electricity supply and 0.18% of global GDP share? Keep it real people.

Ask yourself these common sense questions:-

1. If everyone ran out tomorrow and bought $1k worth of Dinar with the $10tn of US notes in circulation, where do you think the $10quadrillion would come from to give everyone $1m back other than printing it? Where do you think this 99,999% increased money supply falls into existence from?

2. The average Iraqi earns $2k-4k in Dinars. Do you seriously believe they'll be given $2-4m each year for sweeping the streets, and will be able to sell their old 1990's Toyotas for $5-10m and their 3rd-world houses for $50-75m each after the RD by changing up Dinars for $? Some of this stuff is bordering on insanity.

3. The total global GDP is approx $60tn of which Iraq's share is 0.18%. If that 0.18% is supposedly "magic" enough to sustain a $29tn Iraq money supply whilst the other $30tn is shared by 99.82% of the rest of the planet then by extension, you must also believe everyone else on the planet can magic $16 quadrillion into existence via similar "RV's" including Obama who can magic $4qdrn and will hand out $13m to every American all without inflation?

4. If Iraq's 0.18% is enough to sustain $29tn money, then by extension, the $60tn total global GDP can be substituted for just 0.37% GDP. Or in other words, everyone can just stop working, buying and selling, and constantly "RV" (print) themselves money and no inflation will occur anywhere because everyone on Earth will be a retired millionaire...

The sad truth is, some people are so brainwashed by this "millionaire for nothing" stuff, that when the RD does take place, they won't even understand it then and will just angrily shout at the exchange cashier they've had $999,000 promised money "stolen" by Iraq when they change their original $1k worth of Dinars back into $1k. Seriously people, if you truly believe the more money you print, the more value each note has and that printing enough for $1m each will make everyone rich with no other negative effect, then I have some magic beans to sell you...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My response: (Alex38) Well they declared themselves 1000 times poorer in the blink of an eye.... so why not the reverse? Ya feel me???? B)

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acceb75 Newbie

acceb75

Posted
Posted

This is the kind of reading that everyone holding dinar should read because its a bikg part of what could happen and what they have been telling us for sometime that will happen......tryin to stay hopeful but we can't say they didn't warn us.....

I actually have read that discussion and even though I choose to keep my rose colored glasses on for the sake of my own sanity, I do see a valid point that Brian is making.

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Darin Newbie

Darin

Posted
Posted

This is the kind of reading that everyone holding dinar should read because its a bikg part of what could happen and what they have been telling us for sometime that will happen......tryin to stay hopeful but we can't say they didn't warn us.....

Yup!

R/V - go cash out

R/D - go cash out

I figure, there may be a process in getting the exchange completed.

And lower-denominations may not initially exist outside of the country.

Best bet? Warka account for quickest attempt to jump in for hoping $0.86 goes to $1-$3 and you profit.

May not be worth the headache at that point, considering the amount of fees involved.

I am only saying, which ever route they decide, I'm likely not going to sit and hold much longer as too much can happen at a moments notice.

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keepmwlknfny Newbie

keepmwlknfny

Posted
Posted

Yup!

R/V - go cash out

R/D - go cash out

I figure, there may be a process in getting the exchange completed.

And lower-denominations may not initially exist outside of the country.

Best bet? Warka account for quickest attempt to jump in for hoping $0.86 goes to $1-$3 and you profit.

May not be worth the headache at that point, considering the amount of fees involved.

I am only saying, which ever route they decide, I'm likely not going to sit and hold much longer as too much can happen at a moments notice.

Very true.....I think I'm gonna sell mine back to fund a warka account......the ISX seems to be the ticket....the next steep for me anyways....can't go wrong in investing something that's making good headway after being at the bottom!

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tmcgraw Newbie

tmcgraw

Posted
Posted

Very true.....I think I'm gonna sell mine back to fund a warka account......the ISX seems to be the ticket....the next steep for me anyways....can't go wrong in investing something that's making good headway after being at the bottom!

There is money to be made in Iraq but unforetunately it is not by holding paper currency

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HopefulTxn Newbie

HopefulTxn

Posted
Posted

They said the same things about Kuwait...Old News

There is absolutely nothing about the situation that transpired in Kuwait that is comparable to the situation Iraq is in.

In regards to 'they said the same things about Kuwait' - I highly doubt that in 1991 there were many people using dial-up access on AOL, CompuServe and BBS's discussing much about the KWD. But that is JMO.

I do wonder sometimes how many of the Kuwaiti dinars that the banks refused to exchange (based on serial numbers) and were deemed worthless made it into the hands of people that were hoping to profit off of them.

Everything we do and know has been manipulated by someone.....a currency is not purposefully devalued for no reason....a country is not purposefully invaded for no reason.......

When was the dinar 'purposefully devalued'?

Everything I have researched on the value has shown that the value began to slow depreciate, beginning with the 5% devaluation by Saddam in 1982, but continued its depreciation throughout the 80's and the value depreciated accelerated due to economic sanctions imposed after Iraq invaded Kuwait.

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