"Christian" religeous nut case...

[The Original Spike]

A question, or a statement that I saw on here has stuck in my mind and has bothered me for several days. Usually things don't bother me for long lengths of time, but the statement that was made probably bothered me so much because it hit me so close to my heart. In short it happened to be a question that I have asked myself many times and have not been able to obtain an answer that is reasonable to me. The statement was how could we choose to follow a God that allows so many bad things happen to so many good people, mainly children. My person answer is I simply don't know. I had started a volunteer stint at children's hospital years ago and didn't finish it because I got transferred. I don't know how long they would have kept me because we were not allowed to discuss religion. I thought this was ludicrous being that I was surrounded by dieing people that needed comfort. It is horrible to see children dieing from cancer and other terminal diseases.

I have experienced Gods voice several times in my life, and know it was Him from my reaction. Regrettably, afterwards, it usually ended up with me rebelling and shaking my fist at the sky as I blamed Him for being in the situations in the first place. I have also had and have seen things happen that were no doubt demon influenced.

I have attended many different churches. I have had to avoid passing judgment and keep from passing judgement because of how silly some of the things that were done in the services seemed to me. Maybe they were just connecting in ways I just couldn't grasp. There are actually a lot of funny stories with some of these experiences. I told my second cousin and one of his churches elders once that either everyone in their church either were getting something I couldn't grasp, or they were all going to hell. I half-way stated that to see the reaction on their faces. Not right I know... They were speaking in tongues and running up and down the isles and when it came to the people needing healing up front, I went. They were pushing on people heads and they were falling out. When they got to me, he pushed on my head and it didn't do anything but make me kind of mad. He tried several times, but I wasn't going to play along just to fit in. I have a few more like that...

I, like most Christians have many valid, unanswered prayers, but prayer can be a strange thing. I have been having a lot if friends that were good people doing good things dieing around me lately. Some of them from some really unusual situations, and I have to think why them? Shouldn't You have taken me out before them? One was a fairly young preacher with a deaf wife and two very young kids. He was in great health and ended up dieing from a freak heart attack checking on his kids because his wife couldn't hear them because of her deafness. Another I worked with that had many adopted children. A young girl that I used to joke with when I went to order food to go and would order a beer and joke with her while I waited for the food to come out. There are a lot more...

Anyway, why does our God let happen what He let's happen to good people and children? I don't know... Some Christians will say it is because maybe they weren't really Christians, you just never know what was really in their hearts, or maybe they were doing things that the rest of us didn't know about. You know, find a way in their mind to justify it. You simply can't justify the children, or really, a lot of the good folks being taken so soon.

I was moved once in my life to pray this guy I used to work with. It is really not like me to call folks up in the middle of the night and have them pray, especially a bunch of my mothers little old lady friends. I don't know to this day why that hit me as being so urgent, to tell you the truth, I never really liked the guy, he was a crude ass of am old man, with a nasty temperament. I felt moved by the spirit in such a way that I was going to do what I was told, so I did. I found out later that all of the man's organs were shutting down, and the doctors had told his wife to male her peace, because he would be lucky to make it another hour. After all those prayers went up, he was brought back from death. The next time I saw him I told him he better do what ever it was that God wanted him to do, because a bunch of little old ladies praying for him saved his life that night on Gods behalf. He stated, I know.

Now, my question is why him and not for the others that seem to deserve it so much more and of all people, why me?

So why am I a Christian? A few events in my life, hope and the fact that every single prophecy in the Bible has been 100% correct. I tried at one point in my life to dismiss my reason for choosing Christ. I couldn't... But I don't know why God let's bad things happen to good people and children. I can't even venture a reasonable guess. I would like to tell you God is simply the cosmic clock maker, but I've seen Him work and have no idea why He chooses to do the things He does the way He does them. I've been fighting Him my whole life, maybe to just push a reaction, but all that will do is make you tired, take it from me.

I don't know why I felt the need to post this, but here it is, may God bless and give you, and me for that matter, enlightenment.

[The Original Spike]

Sorry some of the spelling and words are messed up, but you get the jest. It happens when you're working from your phone.

[BanG]

It is not for us to know his Grand Design and purposes for what takes place around us, not yet anyways. God has always and always will be in control there is much comfort in knowing that. JMO. Peace.

[The Original Spike]

I agree with that brother, just one of those things that when hit with it by someone that doesn't believe, stating His ways are not our ways just is not a good debating point with them. But I do agree.

[vested]

Isaiah 45:5, 6, 7

[willy1der]

I agree with that brother, just one of those things that when hit with it by someone that doesn't believe, stating His ways are not our ways just is not a good debating point with them. But I do agree.

All of creation groans. The fallen nature of man has affected God's creation. We are to subdue the earth, exercise the authority in that wonderful name, Jesus. There are things too great for us to understand and if God's did reveal it to us we might not be able to handle it! God's is good. I have been a partaker of God's mercy. Remember the seed will bare fruit of its own kind. Sow mercy and grace into peoples lives and watch God move. 1st Corinth, chpt. 13:8, love never fails. We tend to think that God didn't or hasn't moved when it appears nothing happened. God can health and take someone in the twinkle of and eye.

God bless you brother!

[BanG]

Isaiah 45:5, 6, 7

AWESOME!!!! Loved it! Very appropriate for this post, thank you.

[Markinsa]

Isaiah 57

¹ Good people pass away;

the godly often die before their time.

But no one seems to care or wonder why.

No one seems to understand

that God is protecting them from the evil to come.

[Mr.Nobody]

This is JMO....

I hear alot of people ask "Why would GOD allow this/that to happen"...

I believe that in the begining God created and then set everything in motion....He then gave man freewill...I believe that man, with this freewill has made choices...These choices are how we got to this point in history....(this statement meaning man-made disasters ) We have all heard the statement...Absolute Power corrupts Absolutely! All these disasters from today and the past are caused by someones choices to act....Again...freewill!

On the natural occurances like hurricanes and tornados or any weather related disasters...I believe, again, GOD set the earth and the weather...(etc.) in motion and these disasters are naturally occuring...In other words, it is part of the design..You know, like seasons and such....

For instance Joplin...I am from Missouri...A very cold front and a very warm front collide and the result is a storm...Being from Missouri I know that a lot of tornados don't make the news because they did not cause damage...Unfortunately when one very huge tornado wipes a city from the face of the earth, we ask GOD why...? Everybody starts questioning why this/that could happen...Or why would GOD allow this to happen... The truth is it is weather realated and is naturally occuring...I don't believe for one minute that GOD sent the tornado to Joplin....So why would we ask him Why???

So in conclusion...This is just my opinion! Things just happen...

[lizlemon78]

People who feel the need to ask "why God allows" anything have a fundamental disadvantage to understanding the answer to their own question.

[BeeCee]

"In short it happened to be a question that I have asked myself many times and have not been able to obtain an answer that is reasonable to me. The statement was how could we choose to follow a God that allows so many bad things happen to so many good people, mainly children. My person answer is I simply don't know. "

I follow a God who, when man kind was lost and going to hell, sent His only Son to pay the price for our sins. It is not God's design that His creation should suffer, but because of our sin bad things happen to all kinds of people, but, He says in Romans 8:28 " We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God: those who are called according to His purpose". He said we will have tribulations, trials, pains and sorrows in this life, but I beleive His promise in Revelation 21:3-4 "Look! God’s dwelling is with humanity, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them

and be their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. Death will no longer exist; grief, crying, and pain will exist no longer, because the previous things have passed away."

Our purpose on this earth is not to have God fulfill our every desire, but rather to bring honor and glory to His Son so that men, women and children will be drawn unto Him to live with Him through all eternity.

[AoK]

+1 Markinsa...I was thinkin the same!!

[hoosier1470]

Sickness, diesease, tragity...nothing evil comes from God, but it is from Satan. He comes to steal, kill, and destroy. God is Love! Though God does have The Master Plan! Everyone has a time to go....but all things can and are effected by our own free will! We were not created to die, or to sin for that matter....sin came into the world through the lies of Satan by telling Eve that it was okay to eat of the tree of which God had commanded them to NOT eat! Both had the choice, and both made the wrong choice! From that point on, we were and are born into sin. Even the precious face of an infant is born of sin! But for that reason, God came into the flesh...Jesus, Gods only begotten Son was God into the flesh...and he became sin...and by his own free will gave himself to be crucified for us, that sin could be...and was defeated! We still have our own free will, but because of the blood that was shed on that cross, we have the Blood bought covenant right to ask forgiveness...and to repent of our sins! God is still alive and well, He still Heals people...but to recieve healing, you must have Faith...and you must truely believe by faith, and recieve by faith your healing. If you have doubt into your heart, that keeps God from being able to work into your life! Just as fear, depression, lack, or any other negative spirit that lives in you does! God is unable to work into your life if faith does not exist! Likewise, Satan is alive and well...and will do his best to place strongholds into your heart! He knows all of our weaknesses, and uses them to try to defeat us! But! If you rebuke him...into the name of Jesus....he has no choice but to flee! It is up to us to choose Salvation! And up to us to believe...and thats where faith comes in. Faith comes by not only hearing the Word of God, but believing it, and making it your FINAL authority! If you have questions, get into Gods word! Meditate in it night and day....roll it around in your heart until it becomes such truth to you that anything that is contrary to it is immediately recognized as false! I hope this helps, all of the answers to every problem, or questions in life are in His Word! His Word is Life! The Bible is a living Word! Get into it....Afterall, it is a matter of life....or death! May God Bless each and everyone of you! Take advantage of the Covenant Right that was given to each of us for WHOLE LIFE PROSPERITY!

[Wassaap]

Spike...I used to feel like you do...but I had to stop thinking of God as an exalted human. God is so far beyond our experience that we cannot even begin to understand.

Bad things happen to good people, because we are subject to the world we live in. God is not concerned with our earthly experiences so much as he is concerned with what goes on afterwards.

Not even going to try to start explaining...but here's a keyword: Writings of Henry Laurency

[tlammy]

I sincerely believe that my sovereign God never intended me to know all of the answers, hence Genesis 2....."Stay away from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil."

I also beleive that God loves us so much and knows what each path holds, that He does protect us by "keeping us in the dark:" about many things. "We see through the glass darkly".

Things like children dying and things like Joplin drive me to my knees and cause me to seek His face.

Good thread!

[Sonnet]

Spike . . . noone but God has the answers . . . we know that. There are a few things that I would like to mention that help me and perhaps, it will you too. God's justice is of utmost important to Him! He will either get justice from repentance (paid by the Blood of Jesus) or His judgment comes. Whe He woos us to repentance, a person, a nation . . . over and over and if we do not repent, He pulls back His sustaining Grace and the enemy hits!

I, personally feel that God gets a bad wrap lots of times for things He does not do! The enemy brings destruction . . .

Lots of times there are generational curses in a family line that are passed down and need to be broken off. I have had many broken off of me. The Word says the sins of the fathers are visited in the children up until the 3rd or 4th generation. It takes someone to stand up and bring them to an end. He says if you will confess the sins of your fathers and ancestors, he will restore to you your rightful inheritance. (I am at work and can not look up the address for these right now but it is in the Old and the New Testaments.)

I believe, according to Scriptures that there are 4 things that can bring a curse down . . . on a person or on a nation:

* Shedding of innocent blood

* Idolatry

* Sexual Sins

* Breaking of Covenants

If any of these are in our family line, or in ourselves . . . we need to repent and restoration will immediately take place. Take a look at our nation and the things going on . . . all of the above. Also, if we break our covenant with Israel, we have really had it! God means what He says . . .

At any rate, God bless you and I trust that He will reveal to you the truth on your journey to answers about this. I hope not to offend anyone but this is my two cents worth.

[CocoaScott]

You ask an age-old question. When God created the universe, He created it good and perfect. When man chose to sin, that sin brought with it death, and everything that accompanies death, i.e., sickness disease, destruction, etc. This is when the 2nd law of thermodynamics, called entropy, kicked in (google it).

Much of the distress in the world is brought on by people's free will, which God allows people to have. Whether it be the free-will of parent to be bad or the free-will of governments to mistreat their people. It often gets so bad that it boggles the mind. We see children born with defects because of the choices their parents, g-parents or someone else thrust upon them.

We need to take the long view of things. Our time on earth, compared to eternity, is, as James tells us, like a vapor. It's here then it's gone. But how we choose to live this short life, no matter what the circumstances, will determine where we spend eternity.

I've been a preacher for 23 years and I have seen and heard of some pretty terrible things. But we must always hold to the long view of things.

[desimo]

I know that some people wonder how we can 'love a God who permits bad things to happen'. I would question how we could love a God who would be so much of a dictator that He did not allow free choice. Yes I look at some of the starving children in third world countries. But I also see the governments who are not allowing the food that is rotting on sea ports to get to the people. One person's choice will have effects upon others. That is not God's fault. Corruption and greed that might be one person's free choice will have natural consequences. If a woman is taking drugs while pregnant there is no need to blame God if the child is deformed. Some people get upset saying that God should make it so that she did not take the drugs. But, those same people would be even more upset if God took away free choice. Our role as Christians is to try and pick up the pieces after people make poor choices while not enabling them to continue to make more.

[Markinsa]

By looking at the Book of Job, Chapter 1, we can see how God withdraws his protection to let Satan test us. By having others kidnap and kill our children and those close to us. We also see how Satan uses a “strong wind” which causes a house to collapse killing his remaining children.

In the Books of Matthew, Mark and Luke when Jesus and the disciples are on the Sea during a storm, Jesus “rebukes” the wind and the sea. If God was causing the high winds and the waves, then why would he rebuke himself? The answer is, HE wouldn’t, so that means something else is causing it.

What does this all mean to you and I? When something bad happens, we automatically say to ourselves what did this person do, or why would God allow this? Perhaps, instead of asking why would he allow it to happen, we should ask ourselves, what is he trying to teach us?

We all think that death is bad, and so final. Death isn’t a bad thing, unless you aren’t saved. I have faith in God that only those who truly deserve it and don’t want a relationship with him, end up in hell.

About a year ago, I had a Christian friend of mine pass away from a Brain Tumor. What joy I felt when he passed. I knew he was with Jesus. I relate a story about why Jesus wept when he brought Lazarus back from the grave. It wasn’t because Lazarus had died, but he wept because Lazarus had to leave Heaven and the Father, and come back to earth (My take). Think about it.

In the meantime, let us all LIVE for Jesus, and be his light for the world to see.

[The Original Spike]

Spike...I used to feel like you do...but I had to stop thinking of God as an exalted human. God is so far beyond our experience that we cannot even begin to understand.

I know it's off topic, but what is that a picture of on your profile pic? Some type of centipede under plastic-wrap?

[john1234]

Markinsa--great reply--you said many of the things I was going to say. I think we forget that our life on earth is only a part of our story--the ending is not in this life. There are many things we will never understand, but I don't think that a child's death or sickness is punishment for something his parents have done. I think we are supposed to try to learn something from every situation.

One of my favorite verses, "Don't worry about anything; instead, pray about everything. Tell God what you need, and thank him for all he has done. Then you will experience God's peace, which exceeds anything we can understand." Phil 4:6-7

I think in this verse Paul is not talking about an absence of conflict, since conflict will unfortunately forever be a part of our lives on this Earth. Paul is talking about a lack of anxiety in the face of conflict. He is promising that if we truly give our concerns to God, then we will never have to worry about the outcome.

I think we will always have apprehension about physical or emotional suffering--when Jesus was in the Garden, (Matthew 26:38-39), he did not want to go through the suffering that He knew he would soon endure. But he also knew without a doubt what the outcome would be. Jesus knows beyond any doubt that His Father in Heaven is in charge and that victory over death is assured. We need to remember that God had an amazing plan for each of us.

[roxyredhead]

Spike, Thanks!!!!!

I will share a personal experience of the question " why". I found the Lord (My Personal Savior) at the age of seventeen. I remember that day like it was yesterday! A very, very real experience!

Fast forward a few years and I married a true rebel. We were a very odd couple. I was always called a miss goodie goodie and he was always called anything but good. I would try to talk to him about my personal experience with God and he would laugh. If we got into an argument over something he would tell me to go talk to God about my problems and laugh. This went on for about seven years and by this time we had two small children.

Two years after my second child was born, my husband (still a young man) was given less than a year to live, due to kidney and heart failure. In a panic I said very loudly you cannot just let him die! My two year old son was in the doctor's office with us, when we were told the news. He repeated over and over, my daddy die, my daddy die. At this time I felt a pain that I did not know existed. We were told he could not survive a transplant of a heart or kidney. I argued with them that they were not God and they did not have the final say. They looked at me like I was a pitiful little girl that just didn't understand. For three months I called these doctors every single day (multiple times) until someone would talk to me. He was on dialysis and going down quickly. I asked them over and over, to please try to do something and God would take it from there. My husband got very angry with me and told me to stop! He said obviously my God did not want him to live.I prayed and prayed and refused to stop calling.

Finally they agreed to attempt a kidney transplant if we could find a donor. They told us that his odds were 70/30 of not surviving due to his heart being so weak. We found a donor and his surgery was scheduled very quickly. He became very scared and angry because he thought this would shorten the time he had left. He told me he had started praying for God to let him live but didn't feel anything. He told me that he didn't believe God would talk to people's heart like I had always claimed. He asked me "why God was being mean to him" since I always said he was a very Loving and Forgiving God. I told him that I thought he was asking God for the wrong thing. I told him he needed to repent and ask God (Our Lord Jesus Christ) to forgive him and come into his soul as his personal savior and give him eternal life, not to just let him live a little longer here on earth. I told him it was most important to have eternal life with God. Much more than to have a few more days on this earth. I told him this is just our temporary home. Once again he became very angry with me. He thought I was telling him not to ask God to let him live.

After they came to take him away for surgery I was heartbroken. I knew how bad his odds were and was scared that the last feelings he had for me was anger. Several hours later the doctors came to me and said that the surgery went perfect. They were very surprised that they had no issues at all. Shortly after they said that my husband was asking for me. I went to him and he was crying. He kept putting his hand on his heart and moving his lips to say " I am okay". I told him I know, the doctors told me that everything went perfect. He looked at me and shook his head no and put his hand on his heart and moved his lips to say "I am okay with GOD"! He said he found the Lord. He had tears running down his face and the most beautiful smile! He told me after finding the Lord, he no longer asked him to let him live, but he only asked for enough time to tell me " he was okay". He was a changed man and we had TEN more happy years together. My children were blessed with ten more years with their father. Before he found God, he would ask "why me"? After he found God he would always tell our children, trust and believe, we don't always understand but God makes no mistakes!!!

I am sorry this is so long but it is a life story in a few paragraphs..... Please overlook misspells and many other mistakes I am sure you will find..... GOD IS GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sonnet]

Awesome testimony . . . Roxy . . . thanks!

[The Original Spike]

That was awsome Roxy. Here's part of mine. I married a girl God told me not to. Weird I know, but as I was walking across the lawn with the engagement ring, I heard a very calm voice that simply stated, "Don't do it". How I knew it was God was that I immediately look to the heavens and shook my fist stating this is the best You have sent and I don't want to be alone. Not good, I know and me and my two children have paid for it ever since.

When I was in college I found I could take sign language as my minor and make special ed my minor in deaf studies. I got worried with no reason, that my first child was going to be deaf. I banged pots behind her to gauge her reaction time. Stupid I know, but the fear subsided the more I learned.

After our second child was born, my ex convinced me to move where she was from, Omaha, NE under the ruse of attending a grad program that would help me better support our family. First I had no business being in a grad program for computer science with no foundation, second I was taking ridalin, a drug for ADHD that is supposed to help people with this focus. I had taken it as a child and found as an adult, it did not calm me down, but ended working like speed. It made me feel like I was having a heart attack ever time I took it.

We were living in her parents nasty house, fighting every minute I was home and I started to crack under so much pressure. I lost about 70 lbs in under 2 months. I had told her I had made a mistake and we needed to return to AR so I could re-group. She told me I needed to get the hell out. The drugs and the pressure had broke me. I was not thinking straight and was about to do something stupid at one point and God whispered, " If you do it, then she wins". It may sound stupid, but it saved my life. It was just what I needed to hear. Not to much later I was asking God what He wanted me to do, I was wrecked trying to hold on and do the right thing by my kids, Gods simple answer was, "Go home". Even though it was the hardest thing I had ever had to do, I knew if I could not function, I was no good to anyone, including my kids.

It eventually brought about the hardest moment of life. I drove up 11 hrs to see my kids about a month after I left. My oldest was barely 2 at the time, ran out when it was time for me to leave crying " please daddy don't leave me, take me with you, I want to go home". I have had to be a very tough man growing up, but that killed me to have to leave that day. My ex was standing outside with a look of indifference on her face. She hissed she being overly dramatic, just go, she will be fine. I knew my daughters would need each other, so splitting them up was not an option. She made sure my visit was at the house because she was afraid I would "steal" them. After that, I probably would have if I thought I would have been able to make it home with them. All I could think of was that it would be another traumatic experience my children would have to see, their dad getting arrested for taking them and would ultimately hurt my visitation. I drove around the corner and cried for the first time in twenty years.

Before the airline job came about, I would drive 11 hours visit for 2 or 3 then drive 11 hours back in order to make it to work the next day.

About six months into the visits, before I got on with the airlines, the ex called. She was all distraught, and stated our youngest was deaf. I told her it was ok, my indirect training at college had shown me being deaf was really not that bad.

So, I have many other stories, but God does do things in mysterious ways. The latest, that I am waiting on, is a miracle for my getting hurt working for the airlines, my ex moved my kids who are now young teens, 22 hours away. This, and I am continuing to have things go wrong with my body as I try to fight the airlines. It has to get better, it always has found a way in the past. I understand... Sorry you have had so much pain, but glad you know you will see him in heaven.

[roxyredhead]

Awesome testimony . . . Roxy . . . thanks!

Sonnet, Thank you for the kind words!!!