Why you wont see a 3 dollar RV.....

[aaanth]

sorry, but i have to go with CTS on this one. even though it sounds crazy his numbers are the way it really works. it's the old "money as debt" routine. it will come back to iraq and allow them to recover all the dinar they want to at a fraction of the actual worth of the paper and then what ever they want with them. i know. it's CRAZY!!! but, this is the way it will work. make sense? no! is it reality? YES!

[Striker]

Dont know too much about it but here is a post that made sense. Not arguing just showing the other side and this is just for a 1 to 1 ratio.

First off, I’ll use the exchange of a 10,000 IQD (Iraqi Dinar) note as my example. To help explain the economics of this cash-in example, I will use a 1:1 cash-in ratio between the USD (US Dollar) and IQD (Iraqi Dinar), that is given a two-tier payout, and a 2% bank spread.

What You Will Receive:

If you were to cash in your 10,000 IQD note with a bank that charges you a 2% spread, you would personally receive a net take-home of $9,800 credited to your bank account.

What Your Bank Will Receive:

Your Bank will receive a $10,000 credit to its Federal Reserve Account. They will also be able to add the $200 profit to their “capital account”.

If you don’t understand the “Fractional Banking“ concept that runs our country, you may want to, as that is what this is based on, and is what is behind this entire concept and plan. To learn more about this concept, I suggest you click HERE, and go to a video post I brought to the forum previously, and posted in my “Tidbits“ section.

Ultimately, the bank wins because they are able to gain $2,000 in lending power under the 10% “Fractional Banking“ model.

What the US Treasury Will Receive:

First off, the US Treasury will receive $3,500 in estimated taxes in the quarter after the exchange, because you are now in the “rich” category and get to enjoy the 35% tax bracket. This lowers the “net cost” of the IQD exchange to the US financial system to $6,500 USD (i.e. $10,000 out – $3,500 in). Furthermore, the US Treasury’s rate is higher than the banking rate (we will use in this example 1.25), thereby further reducing their “net cost” from $6,500 to $4,000.

Oil Now Enters the Picture:

At some point, a Fed-appointed agent orders $12,500 worth of oil from Iraq. Payment will consist of a $12,500 transfer from the Fed’s foreign currency reserve IQD account to the IRAQ Oil payment account at the CBI (Central Bank of Iraq) in a form otherwise known as PetroDollars/PetroDinar. Even though the world spot price of oil is defined in terms of USD, the actual transaction may take place in any internationally recognized currency agreed to by the parties. For example, Iran only accepts Yen from Japan for their oil orders, because they don’t want USD in their foreign currency reserves.

How the CBI “RECAPTURES” the Money:

The $12,500 order is filled with 250 barrels of oil based on the spot price on the date of the sale (for this example we used a $50 USD spot price). What does it cost Iraq to produce the oil to fill this order? Well they have negotiated productions agreements for approximately $1.50 USD/barrel. From that price $.50 USD goes to the national Iraqi oil company who is the partner in the field the oil came from. Out of the remaining $1.00 the other oil field partners have to pay the Iraq government a profit tax of $.35 USD (35%). The net cost to Iraq to produce a barrel of oil used in this scenario is $.65 USD. (i.e. $1.50 – .50 – .35)

What does all that mean? It cost Iraq $162.50 to bring back a 10,000 IQD note! Can they afford that? I think so! So, instead of paying out $12,500 for a 10,000 IQD note, they only pay $162.50! That doesn’t add to the money supply much at all does it! They receive their IQD back and place it in the CBI, or destroy it.

The transaction is completed with the Federal Reserve exchanging foreign reserve credits which are equal to $12,500 USD (which had a net acquisition cost of $4,000 USD for the US) for 250 barrels of oil (which has a TOTAL COST to produce of $162.50 USD for Iraq.

More completely explained, and simply put, it cost Iraq $162.50 USD from their foreign currency reserve accounts to redeem the value of 10,000 IQD, which goes into their operating accounts. At the same time the US got $12,500 worth of oil for a net cost of $4,000. That’s how it was originally planned for Iraq to RV at 1 IQD = 1 USD, with the variable being the political element (i.e. UN Sanctions, GOI (Government of Iraq) actions, IMF actions, World Bank actions etc.)

Other Factors that Strengthen Iraq’s Position and Ability to RV:

■DFI (Development Fund for Iraq) Funds Returned & Other Assets: $280+ Billion USD, plus other frozen assets (estimated at $100 billion) will be returned back to Iraq and added to their foreign currency reserve, bringing it up to $430+ billion USD.

■CBI IQD Reserve Requirement Adjustment: The CBI will change the current fractional IQD reserve requirements from 100% to 15% at the appropriate time. As a result, the the total potential money supply will be raised in value to $2.8 Trillion (430 billion/15), while at the same time, the total physical IQD in circulation will be reduced by removing the large bills with the 3 zeros over a period of 2 years, as they have indicated.

■Oil Production Increased: Iraq will also execute the plan they announced to increase oil production from 2+ million barrels/day to 10 million barrels/day with the resulting revenues flowing directly to the Iraq treasury.

■Oil Futures & Forex Contracts Added: To further stir the pot, the CBI will continue to use it’s sales window to market oil futures and forex contracts. They have shown they can generate significant cash flow in the private market. Think of their impact in public markets.

There, my friends, is how this plan will be enacted and made possible. Taking NOTHING, and turning it into SOMETHING, then bringing it back to a “manageable and reasonable something” that is accepted and supported by seeming endless supplies of oil. This is how the world’s ENTIRE NEW MONETARY SYSTEM will be regenerated and supported and backed, given, in essence, a re-birth and renewed for most governments and economic regions… even by “Black Gold”.

So, here’s the summary for all the “players” involved, giving ballpark numbers, and not taking into account superfluous costs, fees, and other small details that don’t really affect the larger picture:

■Investor’s Net Gain: $10,000 – $200 = $9,800 x .65 = 6,370 for an investment that cost $10

■Bank’s Net Gain: $200 added to “capital account”, plus $2,000 they can use to loan out.

■US Treasury Net Gain: $2,500 from the .25 spread on top + $3,500 in quarterly taxes = $6,000

■CBI/GOI/Iraqi People Net Gain: $12,500 – $162.50 = $12,337.50 + Profits from “Other Factors”

■Overall Net Gain for All Involved: $6,370+$200+$6,000+12,337.20 = $24,907.20

This is the wealth that was generated from a single 10,000 IQD note that was given an original value of approximately $10! Is that amazing or what?! You tell me… can Iraq afford NOT to RV?!!! Will the IMF allow them to NOT RV their currency, but simply replace their large denoms for smaller ones?!!! LOL!!!

out F N Standing. Now this is a real debate.

[JuryPicker]

That scenerio has been brought up many times and many holes shot through it......that still doesnt account for all the currency in circulation.....we hold a VERY SMALL percentage....it doesnt matter what we do with our dinar here....what matters is all the currency in Iraq itself......this scenerio you posted only covers how they could possibly pay or afford our exchange here in the states.....but you still have over 23 trillion in the country of Iraq that has to be reduced before they can come out at any high rate.....but thanks for sharing....

But, give us a break down of where that 23 Trillion Dinars in country is at? Do the citizens have all that currency with a population that low? Does the GOI have it? Does Donald Trump have it? Is CBI burning it? Does DC have it and are holding it for asset reasons? How much does China have???? Russia???? England???? Canada???? Dallas Cowboys???? THERE is WAYYYYYY to many unanswered equations to make any kind of judgement on a rate. Impossible. Impossible. No Numbers………No Answer. Period

[keepmwlknfny]

sorry, but i have to go with CTS on this one. even though it sounds crazy his numbers are the way it really works. it's the old "money as debt" routine. it will come back to iraq and allow them to recover all the dinar they want to at a fraction of the actual worth of the paper and then what ever they want with them. i know. it's CRAZY!!! but, this is the way it will work. make sense? no! is it reality? YES!

But you are forgetting that the scenerio he posted only works for people here in the US....and we only account for MAYBE 1.5 trillion and thats shooting high......so that doesnt account for all the dinar in country that they need to recover.....ALL of us speculators dont matter to them....we are a extremely small part in this plan.....the issue is the currency in country.....and they must get the trust of the people with the banks for it to work properly....and unfortunately they dont trust them.....which is why only a small portion is actually in the banks.....

[Doctor Smith]

I have heard all types of possible rates from currency experts. Ali Says it will probably start at 15 cents and float up. Rudy says it will have to be at least something like 1.20 or it will be bought up and Irag will not own their own country. I think it could be whatever they want. Iraq has a bag of marbles and the IMF is going to increase the value of the marbles.

[keepmwlknfny]

But, give us a break down of where that 23 Trillion Dinars in country is at? Do the citizens have all that currency with a population that low? Does the GOI have it? Does Donald Trump have it? Is CBI burning it? Does DC have it and are holding it for asset reasons? How much does China have???? Russia???? England???? Canada???? Dallas Cowboys???? THERE is WAYYYYYY to many unanswered equations to make any kind of judgement on a rate. Impossible. Impossible. No Numbers………No Answer. Period

Its in the hands of the citizens........not in the banks......think about how much they need to purchase simple items.....thousands......tens of thousands....not to mention whats being stashed under their mattresses......which is probly millions since the purchasing power is so low......then multiply that by 30+ million.......they took down the charts off the CBI site for this year but if need be I can break out the graphs from end of 2009 to give you an idea of what I am talkin about......

[Drunken Irish]

The RV will be less than 1 to 1 and it will be on a managed float as Iraq cannot handle the volatility of a free float. There will be a small window to cash in the large denoms. This will bring in almost all the speculator dinar as it will be hard to get the small denoms outside iraq. The value will be raised slowly over time based on oil output, infastructure and security of foreign contractors. This scenario makes the most sense for Iraq.

jmo

Edited March 16, 2011 by Drunken Irish

[coldwarvet]

Thanks for everyone's OPINIONS. 'Nuff said.

[keepmwlknfny]

The RV will be less than 1 to 1 and it will be on a managed float as Iraq cannot handle the volatility of a free float. There will be a small window to cash in the large denoms. This will bring in almost all the speculator dinar as it will be hard to get the small denoms outside iraq. The value will be raised slowly over time based on oil output, infastructure and security of foreign contractors. This scenario makes the most sense for Iraq.

jmo

That very well could be!!! Hows it goin bro? Long time no talk Sorry I havent got back to you.....been freakin busy as hell....but your scenerio does make sense....its possible.....small gains over time.....

Thanks for everyone's OPINIONS. 'Nuff said.

Just curious but do you really think that there being no way they can come out high with such a large amount in circulation is just an "opinion"?? hmmmmmm.........I suggest you dig a bit deeper friend.....

[JuryPicker]

Its in the hands of the citizens........not in the banks......think about how much they need to purchase simple items.....thousands......tens of thousands....not to mention whats being stashed under their mattresses......which is probly millions since the purchasing power is so low......then multiply that by 30+ million.......they took down the charts off the CBI site for this year but if need be I can break out the graphs from end of 2009 to give you an idea of what I am talkin about......

But are you 100% sure of the numbers? All this is speculation because nobody knows for sure. Well, nobody here anyway. I don't think the people have that kind of dinars. It would be very hard for us to live in such poor conditions like they do. Even tho the dinar is devalued, 23 Trillion is a monster amount. With out the correct numbers, you can't do the numbers. Take it from somebody who works numbers 12 hours a day. You have to have the numbers. Anything else is a pure guess. Not saying it'll be 3.86 or .001, without the FACTS, you can't do it. It's like saying 100,00 X_____=______. Impossible. And I don't trust anything their or our Gov says either.

[keepmwlknfny]

But are you 100% sure of the numbers? All this is speculation because nobody knows for sure. Well, nobody here anyway. I don't think the people have that kind of dinars. It would be very hard for us to live in such poor conditions like they do. Even tho the dinar is devalued, 23 Trillion is a monster amount. With out the correct numbers, you can't do the numbers. Take it from somebody who works numbers 12 hours a day. You have to have the numbers. Anything else is a pure guess. Not saying it'll be 3.86 or .001, without the FACTS, you can't do it. It's like saying 100,00 X_____=______. Impossible. And I don't trust anything their or our Gov says either.

I am 99% sure of the numbers because they cant and wont change that much but Ill leave that extra 1 % to any flucuation or change in the amounts, I have been over those numbers so many times and its the ONLY thing holding my mind back from believing we will see a large gain overnight in the dinar....and I have seen some pretty convincing things since being around over a year.....Iraq since being under sanctions, is required to be completely transparent with EVERYTHING they do.....including their finances and budgets......I will post the graph showing the numbers and how much is reported to being in the banks......the one I have is from the end of 2009/ beginning of 2010 but it hasent changed much since then......

[easyrider]

makes pefect sense even adam has aid .10 cents from the start but i saw he raised his rate a little higher now when we had ur first chat i believe it was lastweek it was.25-1.00 those were adams wods not mine if there are so much dinar in circulaton i jst dont see how they can get it all in without inflationkilling them but mr. ich is correct we dont know the precise fgures all we are doing is specualting what the figures are. For all we know theymight just haveabout 70%-85% back who knows and if indeed that is the case thenwe ca expect a reasonable rate but in my eyes anything will do right about now. Good post keep.

[hiloeven]

I have personally had enough of you and the other international economy theorists opining about the actual tangibles of value and conversion of the IQD when we have yet to demonstratively pinpoint the possibility/probability/rationale/timing of any RV actual happening for the benefit of the Iraqi government and its people. You have spent so much useless brainpower addressing the theoretical application of the event that you have completely missed the much more important fundamental point, being the impetus for the RV "by Middle Eastern logic" . I dare you to addresss that in a knowledgeable and experienced fashion before "going to second base" with your Western professorial dissertation. Once you climb that steep mountain of Eastern explanation, then initiate discussions on the value of any RV that might occur. I realize from your prior posts and retorts you never err, but I challenge you to address the developmental timing and driving forces (by Eastern standards, not ours) for the RV before professing your American textbook economics "expertise" of the resulting value and other factors........I'll await the mandatory "I'm never wrong reply".

[Drunken Irish]

That very well could be!!! Hows it goin bro? Long time no talk Sorry I havent got back to you.....been freakin busy as hell....but your scenerio does make sense....its possible.....small gains over time.....

Just curious but do you really think that there being no way they can come out high with such a large amount in circulation is just an "opinion"?? hmmmmmm.........I suggest you dig a bit deeper friend.....

Keep,

the people that disagree with you are the same people who agree with okie. most of these sheeple will spend their rv money on corvettes and bass boats then be broke within 3 years.

it is sad but you and I are in the minority.

[crosbone]

Stop it

[jaykay]

I think you meant 3 USD = 1 IQD, and I agree that that's ridiculous. But I also believe that they have been tightening up their money supply as Kuwait is said to have done, according to Scooter. What sold me on this investment is the idea of monetizing their oil. They have over $10 trillion in their oil reserves alone, so if they can tighten up their money supply to 10 trillion they can easily RV at $1. And as the Iraqis begin opening up bank accounts in their new electronic format the fractional reserve possibilities open up. I think $1.50 is possible but I wouldn't think much more than that, but who really knows? We just don't have enough data on the current figures.

I Agree it will be higher than.10

[graml]

For everyone of these people that come in saying it wont RV at $3.00 you have another guy telling you why it will come in at $3.00. This should not have been posted in the Rumors section. It is just his opinion. And that is jmo!

[easyrider]

Stop it

lmao stop what? he does have a point, does he not?

[Star Ship]

In my humble opinion. and of course I like everyone else would be estatically pleased with a high $$ Rv - but anyway, if Iraq is going to be a player on the world stage and competitive with it's Mid East neighbors, then thier currency has to be valued about the same as their neighbors such as Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. So, I keep looking at the exchange rate of the currencies of the other countries close to Iraq. It is all a crap shoot at best and as we all well know, we really have no idea what will happen. The Kuwaiti Dinar was up to $4.19 the other day. Haven't checked the Saudi money rates - but I think it is around $3. Unless Iraq puts a time limit on dinar cash-in with the threat of new currency, I think I will not cash in all my stash at one time. Have to wait and see what all is in play at time of the actual happening. I am enjoying the ride. Cheers!

[Drunken Irish]

I have personally had enough of you and the other international economy theorists opining about the actual tangibles of value and conversion of the IQD when we have yet to demonstratively pinpoint the possibility/probability/rationale/timing of any RV actual happening for the benefit of the Iraqi government and its people. You have spent so much useless brainpower addressing the theoretical application of the event that you have completely missed the much more important fundamental point, being the impetus for the RV "by Middle Eastern logic" . I dare you to addresss that in a knowledgeable and experienced fashion before "going to second base" with your Western professorial dissertation. Once you climb that steep mountain of Eastern explanation, then initiate discussions on the value of any RV that might occur. I realize from your prior posts and retorts you never err, but I challenge you to address the developmental timing and driving forces (by Eastern standards, not ours) for the RV before professing your American textbook economics "expertise" of the resulting value and other factors........I'll await the mandatory "I'm never wrong reply".

Their whole banking system is based on our western Federal Reserve. Their monetary policies will follow suit and that includes their exchange rate. The IMF WTO WB and good ole USofA have Iraq by the balls. Shabibi only appears to call the shots

[keepmwlknfny]

I have personally had enough of you and the other international economy theorists opining about the actual tangibles of value and conversion of the IQD when we have yet to demonstratively pinpoint the possibility/probability/rationale/timing of any RV actual happening for the benefit of the Iraqi government and its people. You have spent so much useless brainpower addressing the theoretical application of the event that you have completely missed the much more important fundamental point, being the impetus for the RV "by Middle Eastern logic" . I dare you to addresss that in a knowledgeable and experienced fashion before "going to second base" with your Western professorial dissertation. Once you climb that steep mountain of Eastern explanation, then initiate discussions on the value of any RV that might occur. I realize from your prior posts and retorts you never err, but I challenge you to address the developmental timing and driving forces (by Eastern standards, not ours) for the RV before professing your American textbook economics "expertise" of the resulting value and other factors........I'll await the mandatory "I'm never wrong reply".

I cant address any timing of the RV cause I/we have no clue when they will have all their ducks in a row....... Do I need to go any further?? Hahahaha....other then the specific articles concerning this years budget and shabibi stating himself that the budget proposed for 2011 will see the dinar rise in value, I really cant go any further then that.....and I really dont need to....if it happens this year then it happens....or starts to happen I should say....In no way am I trying to say that I know when its going to happen........just simply making a point about a realistic rate since so many seem to get wrapped up in the nonsense rumors and logic of a 2+ dollar rate......do you need a nap or something?? Calm down....its ok....really it is.....just a simple, and logical reasoning from an "american" and "western" mind....can you dig that?

[crosbone]

I think they will come out with a low RV to bring in millions of the dinar because there are many people who won,t wait for a higher RV they need the money ..just an opinion.

[BW3]

Keep,

the people that disagree with you are the same people who agree with okie. most of these sheeple will spend their rv money on corvettes and bass boats then be broke within 3 years.

it is sad but you and I are in the minority.

LMAO~~ "spend their rv money on corvettes and bass boats then be broke within 3 years."

THAT IS SAD BUT TRUE for some of these people... Thanks for the laugh....

Even if it RV'd even at a penny,,, we all made a nice ROI...

[keepmwlknfny]

For everyone of these people that come in saying it wont RV at $3.00 you have another guy telling you why it will come in at $3.00. This should not have been posted in the Rumors section. It is just his opinion. And that is jmo!

Again its not an opinion that it cant come in at 3 dollars because of the amount in circulation.......please read some more about other countries...much bigger countries and how much they have in PHYSICAL currency in circulation.....even the most widely used currency in the world has no where near that much in physical currency.....its simple economics of supply and demand when you break it down.....the more you have of something, the less it is worth....you dont need a degree in economics to understand that.......all those that are screaming it will come out at 3 dollars fail to mention the only way thats possible is if they lop......or they just cant comprehend the simplicity of the situation....

Edited March 16, 2011 by keepmwlknfny

[JuryPicker]

I am 99% sure of the numbers because they cant and wont change that much but Ill leave that extra 1 % to any flucuation or change in the amounts, I have been over those numbers so many times and its the ONLY thing holding my mind back from believing we will see a large gain overnight in the dinar....and I have seen some pretty convincing things since being around over a year.....Iraq since being under sanctions, is required to be completely transparent with EVERYTHING they do.....including their finances and budgets......I will post the graph showing the numbers and how much is reported to being in the banks......the one I have is from the end of 2009/ beginning of 2010 but it hasent changed much since then......

I think you have a good point. At first glance. And I would almost buy it except for the Transparent comment. Iraq has never, and will never be transparent. And neither will the other 194 countries in the world. When it comes to money…….all bets are off. I hope you're wrong and i'm right. I know you do too. Great discussion.