Really? Can someone RATIONALLY justify an $3 RV?

[dinarded]

The U.S., European Union, China, and Japan combine to generate about

$27.555 trillion in gross domestic product, which represents 50.65% of

the world domestic product.

For estimation purposes, we'll assume they also control 50.65% of the

world money supply. The four regions combine for an M2 money supply of

$23.559 trillion. That translates to a world money supply of $46.513

trillion.

http://askville.amazon.com/money-exists-world-ratios-pound-euro-yen-dollar/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=3612391

Bash me for asking a simple question OR leave a legitimate response.....

How can a country like Iraq......OR ANY COUNTRY for that matter.....possess a currency that will hold a value of over 80 trillion US dollars?

think........think............think

[Chillin' out]

Probably not, but some might give it a solid effort.

But, can you first give me verifiable proof that their is 27 trillion dinar in circulation?

(I assume thats where you are getting your "over 80 trillion" basis point)

If you can let me know and show solid proof how much dinar is left in the market, then we can take a stab at reasonable RV rates.

But since you cant, then I cant..........which leaves us with SPECULATION.

Which is really what this is all about.

[dinarded]

Probably not, but some might give it a solid effort.

But, can you first give me verifiable proof that their is 27 trillion dinar in circulation?

(I assume thats where you are getting your "over 80 trillion" basis point)

If you can let me know and show solid proof how much dinar is left in the market, then we can take a stab at reasonable RV rates.

But since you cant, then I cant..........which leaves us with SPECULATION.

Which is really what this is all about.

Thank you for your response.....I too have had a hard time understanding the 27 trillion Dinar notes (no one has been able to provide ample proof one way or the other on that deal).....but even if there were only HALF of that number, you would be looking at a value above the 2005 estimate of global currency value in US dollars.

That's a +1 for you

[Chillin' out]

yes sir. Those are still some big numbers!

So in your opinion, what is a reasonable rate?

Because I would take $.10 and happily retire.

Really ANYTHING without a LOP is a huge win.

[dinarded]

yes sir. Those are still some big numbers!

So in your opinion, what is a reasonable rate?

Because I would take $.10 and happily retire.

Really ANYTHING without a LOP is a huge win.

I would have to agree with you! ESPECIALLY the "without a LOP" scenario.

[drox]

Countless articles from Iraqi economists and even from those at the CBI pin the number between 23.5 and 27 trillion. Many removal of 3 zero articles discuss going from 25 Billion up to those numbers since 1990. It is logical to assume they feel that number is a preferred number for their GDP. Not that I want a lop at all. The problem I have with the Ghost fils theory is that people think they will destroy the larger notes with 3 zeros. To get to the preferred number they would have to destroy 99% of the currency in existence. That is illogical just as it is to think it could RV at $3. My hope is it will steadily progress to a comfortable and stable number within the Middle East currencies range in alignment with both population and comparable GDP's without having to lop. Specifically closer to Saudi Arabia. We can all still make a huge profit that way. That could put their GDP real value against the dollar at around 6 or 7 trillion. The currency number would still be the same though unless they destroyed some notes. Still high but much more manageable.

[Chillin' out]

Man this strikes at the heart of my biggest problem with this "investment" and my fellow investors.

People should understand that anything non-Lopped is HUGE. A straight up $1 RV means massive returns.

I think folks are going to be in for a hard fall if they are counting on the $3 RV.

Either we are seeing greed run amok, or we have some inexperienced investing here.

I wont argue with a $3 RV, but I just dont expect it.

Merry Christmas to all..........wake me up when CBI reopens :lol: :lol:

Later

[dinarded]

Countless articles from Iraqi economists and even from those at the CBI pin the number between 23.5 and 27 trillion. Many removal of 3 zero articles discuss going from 25 Billion up to those numbers since 1990. It is logical to assume they feel that number is a preferred number for their GDP. Not that I want a lop at all. The problem I have with the Ghost fils theory is that people think they will destroy the larger notes with 3 zeros. To get to the preferred number they would have to destroy 99% of the currency in existence. That is illogical just as it is to think it could RV at $3. My hope is it will steadily progress to a comfortable and stable number within the Middle East currencies range in alignment with both population and comparable GDP's without having to lop. Specifically closer to Saudi Arabia. We can all still make a huge profit that way. That could put their GDP real value against the dollar at around 6 or 7 trillion. The currency number would still be the same though unless they destroyed some notes. Still high but much more manageable.

As the judge told Joe Pesci's character in "My Cousin Vinny,"

"Mr. Gambini, that is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection" ...

[Chillin' out]

BTW Dinarded, I have always appreciated your position, even though you usually get slammed for it.

And hey Drox........didnt see you lurking there. Your input is very much appreciated. Always the clear, concise, level-headed one.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you both!

GO RVVVVVVVV

[tbush]

Dinarded, I too would agree that .10 would be fine with me but it only seems reasonable to expect at that rate, Iraq would be owned by others once they go international. I truley wonder just how many private investors there really are and if we really are even a drop in the bucket being IQD holders.

I spent some time in Iraq in 05 and 06 and am familiar with the many many many different contract companies just on the USA side of things. Each one of these contract companies contracts per year alone add up to 300 million and up per company per year.

I don't know how or where we (the USA) pulls this kind of money from but it seems to me that in only one year we have spent at least some trillion dollars for private companies contracted trough the State Dept, Defense Dept. fairly easily.

I do feel that Iraq wants to come out at least equal to the dollar or a tad higher if not just out of pride. I do wonder if it would not be such a big deal though for the USA to be able to afford to pay us if it came out close to 3.00.

[dinarded]

Dinarded, I too would agree that .10 would be fine with me but it only seems reasonable to expect at that rate, Iraq would be owned by others once they go international. I truley wonder just how many private investors there really are and if we really are even a drop in the bucket being IQD holders.

I spent some time in Iraq in 05 and 06 and am familiar with the many many many different contract companies just on the USA side of things. Each one of these contract companies contracts per year alone add up to 300 million and up per company per year.

I don't know how or where we (the USA) pulls this kind of money from but it seems to me that in only one year we have spent at least some trillion dollars for private companies contracted trough the State Dept, Defense Dept. fairly easily.

I do feel that Iraq wants to come out at least equal to the dollar or a tad higher if not just out of pride. I do wonder if it would not be such a big deal though for the USA to be able to afford to pay us if it came out close to 3.00.

Thank you for your response.

When I think about the potential(possible) ramifications of an Iraq RV, I can play several VERY NEGATIVE scenarios in my head, from a global currency(s) value effect, to the banking aspect, to the markets, and eventually to you and me. Go ahead and sprinkle in some politics and national security issues to round out the effect.

Sometimes what we HOPE FOR, once revealed in full, can actually do more damage to us than ANY GOOD we may have perceived to derive from the event.

I think a good study of the possible NEGATIVES of an Iraqi RV would be a responsible consideration for ANYONE that holds the Dinar...or doesn't for that matter.

BTW Dinarded, I have always appreciated your position, even though you usually get slammed for it.

And hey Drox........didnt see you lurking there. Your input is very much appreciated. Always the clear, concise, level-headed one.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you both!

GO RVVVVVVVV

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you as well.

[tbush]

I'm glad you brought that up because normally I keep these conspirocy theories to myself BUT we all know (or at least most of us) when this rv's for our favor, when we cash in, our IQD is not being shipped back to Iraq (CBI), some although think that. Federal reserve will attain that.

This situation (IRAQ IE RV) in the magnitude that it is and in the world economic critical wound that is currently upon us falls right in line with the power intities that be for the perfect time of the creation and 50 year plan for the one world currency.

Alot of people think this is hogwash but their blinded falsly by innocently not paying attention to economic monetary news. It's out their daily, it's real and if people think that our president runs things their crazy. He is just a puppet in the grand scheme of things.

When this RV for Iraq occurs, it is the start of new things that have been in the works for a long long time.....

Edited December 26, 2010 by tbush

[r.fine]

I'm glad you brought that up because normally I keep these conspirocy theories to myself BUT we all know (or at least most of us) when this rv's for our favor, when we cash in, our IQD is not being shipped back to Iraq (CBI), some although think that. Federal reserve will attain that.

This situation (IRAQ IE RV) in the magnitude that it is and in the world economic critical wound that is currently upon us falls right in line with the power intities that be for the perfect time of the creation and 50 year plan for the one world currency.

Alot of people think this is hogwash but their blinded falsly by innocently not paying attention to economic monetary news. It's out their daily, it's real and if people think that our president runs things their crazy. He is just a puppet in the grand scheme of things.

When this RV for Iraq occurs, it is the start of new things that have been in the works for a long long time.....

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GCC Monetary Council to form executive body

Saudi Gazette - 25 December, 2010

The central bank governors from six Gulf countries agreed Wednesday to pursue plans to set up an executive body ahead of the creation of the region's first central bank.

The Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) central bank governors said they had already approved the budget of the GCC Monetary Council (GMC) and would hold more talks through 2011 to establish an executive body that will carry out the GMC’s functions.

"The executive body is to be drawn from the four members and will be headed by a CEO, who will pick the administrative staff and devise plans of action," Aleqtisadiah Arabic daily said.

"The GMC will assume a supervisory role while the executive body will chalk out plans and implement GMC’s decisions."

The paper said the GMC should hold at least six meetings every year pending the creation of a GCC central bank, which will in turn launch a single currency.

In press comments Wednesday, GCC Secretary General Abdul Rahman Al Ateyya urged the other GCC members to rejoin the currency union to ensure full economic merger within the 29-year-old Gulf alliance.

UAE quit the monetary union in early 2009, while Oman quit two years earlier.

http://www.gulfinthemedia.com/index.php?m=economics&id=547977〈=en&PHPSESSID=fd8fb8c9d8c0380fe5f7e52e68afee26

[TWONS29]

I appreciate all the post!!! Thanks to all of you... Please check out this Thanks. "This is from a link that I read" This post of mine is dedicated to explaining how an RV will happen.

CONCEPT EXPLAINED:

First off, I’ll use the exchange of a 10,000 IQD note as my example. To help explain the economics of this cash-in example, I will use a 1:1 cash-in ratio between the USD and IQD, that is given a two-tier payout, and a 2% bank spread.

What You Will Receive:

If you were to cash in your 10,000 IQD note with a bank that charges you a 2% spread, you would personally receive a net take-home of $9,800 credited to your bank account.

What Your Bank Will Receive:

Your Bank will receive a $10,000 credit to its Federal Reserve Account. They will also be able to add the $200 profit to their “capital account”.

If you don’t understand the “Fractional Banking“ concept that runs our country, you may want to, as that is what this is based on, and is what is behind this entire concept and plan. To learn more about this concept, I suggest you click HERE, and go to a video post I brought to the forum previously, and posted in my “Tidbits“ section.

Ultimately, the bank wins because they are able to gain $2,000 in lending power under the 10% “Fractional Banking“ model.

What the US Treasury Will Receive:

First off, the US Treasury will receive $3,500 in estimated taxes in the quarter after the exchange, because you are now in the “rich” category and get to enjoy the 35% tax bracket. This lowers the “net cost” of the IQD exchange to the US financial system to $6,500 USD (i.e. $10,000 out – $3,500 in). Furthermore, the US Treasury’s rate is higher than the banking rate (we will use in this example 1.25), thereby further reducing their “net cost” from $6,500 to $4,000.

Oil Now Enters the Picture:

At some point, a Fed-appointed agent orders $12,500 worth of oil from Iraq. Payment will consist of a $12,500 transfer from the Fed’s foreign currency reserve IQD account to the IRAQ Oil payment account at the CBI in a form otherwise known as PetroDollars/PetroDinar. Even though the world spot price of oil is defined in terms of USD, the actual transaction may take place in any internationally recognized currency agreed to by the parties. For example, Iran only accepts Yen from Japan for their oil orders, because they don’t want USD in their foreign currency reserves.

How the CBI “RECAPTURES” the Money:

The $12,500 order is filled with 250 barrels of oil based on the spot price on the date of the sale (for this example we used a $50 USD spot price). What does it cost Iraq to produce the oil to fill this order? Well they have negotiated productions agreements for approximately $1.50 USD/barrel. From that price $.50 USD goes to the national Iraqi oil company who is the partner in the field the oil came from. Out of the remaining $1.00 the other oil field partners have to pay the Iraq government a profit tax of $.35 USD (35%). The net cost to Iraq to produce a barrel of oil used in this scenario is $.65 USD. (i.e. $1.50 – .50 – .35)

What does all that mean? It cost Iraq $162.50 to bring back a 10,000 IQD note! Can they afford that? I think so! So, instead of paying out $12,500 for a 10,000 IQD note, they only pay $162.50! That doesn’t add to the money supply much at all does it! They receive their IQD back and place it in the CBI, or destroy it.

The transaction is completed with the Federal Reserve exchanging foreign reserve credits which are equal to $12,500 USD (which had a net acquisition cost of $4,000 USD for the US) for 250 barrels of oil (which has a TOTAL COST to produce of $162.50 USD for Iraq.

More completely explained, and simply put, it cost Iraq $162.50 USD from their foreign currency reserve accounts to redeem the value of 10,000 IQD, which goes into their operating accounts. At the same time the US got $12,500 worth of oil for a net cost of $4,000. That’s how it was originally planned for Iraq to RV at 1 IQD = 1 USD, with the variable being the political element (i.e. UN Sanctions, GOI actions, IMF actions, World Bank actions etc.)

Other Factors that Strengthen Iraq’s Position and Ability to RV:

■DFI Funds Returned & Other Assets: $280+ Billion USD, plus other frozen assets (estimated at $100 billion) will be returned back to Iraq and added to their foreign currency reserve, bringing it up to $430+ billion USD.

■CBI IQD Reserve Requirement Adjustment: The CBI will change the current fractional IQD reserve requirements from 100% to 15% at the appropriate time. As a result, the the total potential money supply will be raised in value to $2.8 Trillion (430 billion/15), while at the same time, the total physical IQD in circulation will be reduced by removing the large bills with the 3 zeros over a period of 2 years, as they have indicated.

■Oil Production Increased: Iraq will also execute the plan they announced to increase oil production from 2+ million barrels/day to 10 million barrels/day with the resulting revenues flowing directly to the Iraq treasury.

■Oil Futures & Forex Contracts Added: To further stir the pot, the CBI will continue to use it’s sales window to market oil futures and forex contracts. They have shown they can generate significant cash flow in the private market. Think of their impact in public markets.

There, my friends, is how this plan will be enacted and made possible. Taking NOTHING, and turning it into SOMETHING, then bringing it back to a “manageable and reasonable something” that is accepted and supported by seeming endless supplies of oil. This is how the world’s ENTIRE NEW MONETARY SYSTEM will be regenerated and supported and backed, given, in essence, a re-birth and renewed for most governments and economic regions… even by “Black Gold”.

So, here’s the summary for all the “players” involved, giving ballpark numbers, and not taking into account superfluous costs, fees, and other small details that don’t really affect the larger picture:

■Investor’s Net Gain: $10,000 – $200 = $9,800 x .65 = 6,370 for an investment that cost $10

■Bank’s Net Gain: $200 added to “capital account”, plus $2,000 they can use to loan out.

■US Treasury Net Gain: $2,500 from the .25 spread on top + $3,500 in quarterly taxes = $6,000

■CBI/GOI/Iraqi People Net Gain: $12,500 – $162.50 = $12,337.50 + Profits from “Other Factors”

■Overall Net Gain for All Involved: $6,370+$200+$6,000+12,337.20 = $24,907.20

This is the wealth that was generated from a single 10,000 IQD note that was given an original value of approximately $10! Is that amazing or what?! You tell me… can Iraq afford NOT to RV?!!! Will the IMF allow them to NOT RV their currency, but simply replace their large denoms for smaller ones?!!! LOL!!!

In this scenario, EVERYONE WINS… and the IQD is slowly (over 2 years) taken back in to the CBI… eventually destroyed, leaving a manageable M2 behind, having created HUGE WEALTH throughout the world to re-supply what was allowed to be destroyed in the “great bleed” over a period of just a few weeks a couple of years ago, even the greatest redistribution of wealth the world has ever seen. Believe it or not, it has happened for this very purpose, and it IS coming!

Go Iraq… Go Understanding… Go RV… Go Dinar!

How much ties do the U.S.A have with Iraq concerning the RV of the dinar? How much "say so" does the USA have in all of this? And if it has a significant effect on America does this also weigh into the overall economic status that the RV will bring and also help determine the actual RV rate? What if we have to look at more than just Iraq? I appreciate all responses.. I am here to learn from whoever that seeks knowledge. Thanks.

[marknet73]

Countless articles from Iraqi economists and even from those at the CBI pin the number between 23.5 and 27 trillion. Many removal of 3 zero articles discuss going from 25 Billion up to those numbers since 1990. It is logical to assume they feel that number is a preferred number for their GDP. Not that I want a lop at all. The problem I have with the Ghost fils theory is that people think they will destroy the larger notes with 3 zeros. To get to the preferred number they would have to destroy 99% of the currency in existence. That is illogical just as it is to think it could RV at $3. My hope is it will steadily progress to a comfortable and stable number within the Middle East currencies range in alignment with both population and comparable GDP's without having to lop. Specifically closer to Saudi Arabia. We can all still make a huge profit that way. That could put their GDP real value against the dollar at around 6 or 7 trillion. The currency number would still be the same though unless they destroyed some notes. Still high but much more manageable.

Drox, always great to get your take on this. I think this is the most realistic possibility and also will benefit us as investors. A gradual appreciation of their currency as their infrastructure grows would be in their best interest. I'm curious what the economic implications would be if they simply removed the zeros from the currency and then did a revaluation of say 2 or 3x that (they get their currency levels way down but their purchasing power remains low and we might double our money at best) versus an RV at a rate near Saudi Arabia's and then a redomination? (They now have much more purchasing power but a rate that they possibly can't sustain but we make a much bigger profit). I'm thinking they're going to do what's best for them in the long run and your theory holds the most water - and is also good for us investors!

[Soldier]

like you said no you can't. Common sense will tell you that. But I like it when others try, it makes them feel important.

[CaptainJack]

Man this strikes at the heart of my biggest problem with this "investment" and my fellow investors.

People should understand that anything non-Lopped is HUGE. A straight up $1 RV means massive returns.

I think folks are going to be in for a hard fall if they are counting on the $3 RV.

Either we are seeing greed run amok, or we have some inexperienced investing here.

I wont argue with a $3 RV, but I just dont expect it.

Merry Christmas to all..........wake me up when CBI reopens :lol: :lol:

Later

Kudoes Crazy .... you hit the nail on the head twice .... Greed and inexperienced investing! That's why a majority of folks go crazy about every rumor that comes along and then B & M when the rumors don't pan out. The rate may at some point in the future get to $3.00 or on par with other Middle East countries, but that is a long, long road to travel. The dictatorship they were subjected to didn't work .... and their democracy is continuing to struggle because of sectarian differences.

[okiea&p]

Hello all , this is my first post , hope everyone is recovering from Christmas ok . Just wanted to say that I really like this thread . I an a new investor , and it helps me to see you you folks think through things the way you have , Thanks

[jrcrna]

dinarded, thanks for asking the "hard" question. A 3$ rv falls under the category of "if it sounds too good to be true..."

I would be happy to earn a 10% annual ror on my investments for the rest of my life! If the currency rv's @ 1:1 that is over a 1000% ror...hmmm

believe me I wish for the best, but I am prepared for the worst.

these forumns a real insight into human psychology, and quite entertaining.

Happy New year, jr

[Tiffany23]

Excellent posts everyone...even though we are not all in agreement, everyone has been very kind and considerate!

I'm working on a white paper for my advance finance class on where the Iraq dinar fits in one's portfolio...including a sharpe ratio analysis. I'm using this site as one of my major sources...so thank you all for doing the heavy lifting! I'll try to post it once I'm done!

[marcuscurtis]

I appreciate all the post!!! Thanks to all of you... Please check out this Thanks. "This is from a link that I read" This post of mine is dedicated to explaining how an RV will happen.

Oil Now Enters the Picture:

At some point, a Fed-appointed agent orders $12,500 worth of oil from Iraq. Payment will consist of a $12,500 transfer from the Fed’s foreign currency reserve IQD account to the IRAQ Oil payment account at the CBI in a form otherwise known as PetroDollars/PetroDinar. Even though the world spot price of oil is defined in terms of USD, the actual transaction may take place in any internationally recognized currency agreed to by the parties. For example, Iran only accepts Yen from Japan for their oil orders, because they don’t want USD in their foreign currency reserves.

How the CBI “RECAPTURES” the Money:

The $12,500 order is filled with 250 barrels of oil based on the spot price on the date of the sale (for this example we used a $50 USD spot price). What does it cost Iraq to produce the oil to fill this order? Well they have negotiated productions agreements for approximately $1.50 USD/barrel. From that price $.50 USD goes to the national Iraqi oil company who is the partner in the field the oil came from. Out of the remaining $1.00 the other oil field partners have to pay the Iraq government a profit tax of $.35 USD (35%). The net cost to Iraq to produce a barrel of oil used in this scenario is $.65 USD. (i.e. $1.50 – .50 – .35)

What does all that mean? It cost Iraq $162.50 to bring back a 10,000 IQD note! Can they afford that? I think so! So, instead of paying out $12,500 for a 10,000 IQD note, they only pay $162.50! That doesn’t add to the money supply much at all does it! They receive their IQD back and place it in the CBI, or destroy it.

The transaction is completed with the Federal Reserve exchanging foreign reserve credits which are equal to $12,500 USD (which had a net acquisition cost of $4,000 USD for the US) for 250 barrels of oil (which has a TOTAL COST to produce of $162.50 USD for Iraq.

More completely explained, and simply put, it cost Iraq $162.50 USD from their foreign currency reserve accounts to redeem the value of 10,000 IQD, which goes into their operating accounts. At the same time the US got $12,500 worth of oil for a net cost of $4,000. That’s how it was originally planned for Iraq to RV at 1 IQD = 1 USD, with the variable being the political element (i.e. UN Sanctions, GOI actions, IMF actions, World Bank actions etc.)

Other Factors that Strengthen Iraq’s Position and Ability to RV:

■DFI Funds Returned & Other Assets: $280+ Billion USD, plus other frozen assets (estimated at $100 billion) will be returned back to Iraq and added to their foreign currency reserve, bringing it up to $430+ billion USD.

■CBI IQD Reserve Requirement Adjustment: The CBI will change the current fractional IQD reserve requirements from 100% to 15% at the appropriate time. As a result, the the total potential money supply will be raised in value to $2.8 Trillion (430 billion/15), while at the same time, the total physical IQD in circulation will be reduced by removing the large bills with the 3 zeros over a period of 2 years, as they have indicated.

■Oil Production Increased: Iraq will also execute the plan they announced to increase oil production from 2+ million barrels/day to 10 million barrels/day with the resulting revenues flowing directly to the Iraq treasury.

■Oil Futures & Forex Contracts Added: To further stir the pot, the CBI will continue to use it’s sales window to market oil futures and forex contracts. They have shown they can generate significant cash flow in the private market. Think of their impact in public markets.

There, my friends, is how this plan will be enacted and made possible. Taking NOTHING, and turning it into SOMETHING, then bringing it back to a “manageable and reasonable something” that is accepted and supported by seeming endless supplies of oil. This is how the world’s ENTIRE NEW MONETARY SYSTEM will be regenerated and supported and backed, given, in essence, a re-birth and renewed for most governments and economic regions… even by “Black Gold”.

So, here’s the summary for all the “players” involved, giving ballpark numbers, and not taking into account superfluous costs, fees, and other small details that don’t really affect the larger picture:

■Investor’s Net Gain: $10,000 – $200 = $9,800 x .65 = 6,370 for an investment that cost $10

■Bank’s Net Gain: $200 added to “capital account”, plus $2,000 they can use to loan out.

■US Treasury Net Gain: $2,500 from the .25 spread on top + $3,500 in quarterly taxes = $6,000

■CBI/GOI/Iraqi People Net Gain: $12,500 – $162.50 = $12,337.50 + Profits from “Other Factors”

■Overall Net Gain for All Involved: $6,370+$200+$6,000+12,337.20 = $24,907.20

This is the wealth that was generated from a single 10,000 IQD note that was given an original value of approximately $10! Is that amazing or what?! You tell me… can Iraq afford NOT to RV?!!! Will the IMF allow them to NOT RV their currency, but simply replace their large denoms for smaller ones?!!! LOL!!!

In this scenario, EVERYONE WINS… and the IQD is slowly (over 2 years) taken back in to the CBI… eventually destroyed, leaving a manageable M2 behind, having created HUGE WEALTH throughout the world to re-supply what was allowed to be destroyed in the “great bleed” over a period of just a few weeks a couple of years ago, even the greatest redistribution of wealth the world has ever seen. Believe it or not, it has happened for this very purpose, and it IS coming!

Go Iraq… Go Understanding… Go RV… Go Dinar!

How much ties do the U.S.A have with Iraq concerning the RV of the dinar? How much "say so" does the USA have in all of this? And if it has a significant effect on America does this also weigh into the overall economic status that the RV will bring and also help determine the actual RV rate? What if we have to look at more than just Iraq? I appreciate all responses.. I am here to learn from whoever that seeks knowledge. Thanks.

I do not agree with this scenario. I will say at one time this is what I believed. As I began to dig I discovered that I was wrong. So let me just talk about the parts I disagree with.

Oil and Iraq

To understand oil we must first understand the Bretton Woods System. After World War II Bretton Woods was set up. The allies worked out three post-war plan arrangements. They are (1) ITO (still born), replaced by GATT and WTO (2) IBRD (which was replaced by the world bank) and (3) IMF. These organizations today are extensions of the United Nations. Before World War II the United Nations was called the League of Nations.

America had 80 percent of the gold After world war II. At this time our dollar became backed by gold. The Bretton Woods System was based on adjustable and stable exchange rates. Exchange rates were not permanently fixed, but occasional devaluations of individual currencies were allowed to correct fundamental disequilibria in the balance of payments.

By signing this agreement Nations were submitting their exchange rates to international disciplines and laws. This amounted to a significant surrender of national sovereignty to the international communities and organizations. Under Bretton Woods nations held the US dollar in their currency basket to back its currency, and our dollar was backed by gold.

In the 1960’s entitlement spending increased. Under Johnson the Vietnam war accelerated. The cost of this war began to add up. The US printed way too many dollars for the gold it had. Nations who saw the US debt mounting wanted to trade in the dollar for the gold. This led to the collapse of the financial part of Bretton Woods So in August of 1971 Nixon removed us from the gold standard. The Bretton Woods System was reluctantly replaced with a regime of floating exchange rates.

When this was done it made our currency a fiat currency. (faith based) All the nations that had currency backed by the dollar also became a fiat currency. Now the Feds could print as much money as they wanted without regard to gold. Something needed to be done to give value to our currency. In the same year Nixon removed us from the gold standard the petro-dollar system was set up.

America basically said to nations like Saudi Arabia and other Arab oil producing nations that the US would protect them with American military should they ever be invaded. They would not need to raise an army for their protection. We would be their protection. The only thing we ask for in return was for them to only use the US dollar when they sold their oil. So today oil is bought and sold from nations like Saudi and Kuwait only using the US dollar.

This is why the US went to Kuwait in 1991. (the first gulf war) Saddam switched from selling oil in US dollars in 2002. He started using the Euro. Shortly after that we invaded Iraq. The first order of business for the US was to return to a system that used the US dollar to sell oil. This was done shortly after we invaded.

You see if we begin to trade dinars for oil it will undermine the entire petro-dollar system. This will result in the collapse of the US economy as all of the now worthless US dollars make their way back to the United States. If that is the case the Revalue will not do anyone any good. It could RV for 5 dollars but that 5 dollars will not be worth anything once hyper inflation kicks in.

This is why dinar will not be traded for oil. It will start to collapse the petro dollar system. Iraq is obligated to sell oil only using the US dollar. This creates demand for the US currency which would be otherwise worthless.

I disagree with the fractional reserve banking model you gave as well, but this post is already to long to address it. I will work on a new blog post that will address this issue and the petro-dollar. I will supply links.

[BobbyBuns]

Hope you all had a happy holiday. I've been quietly reading the news (seems like a lot of conflicting reports out there lately) as well as all the predictions from the "gurus" on these forums. I just wanted to give my take on the idea of coming out the gate with a $3 RV. I'm just going to use some simple math and go with a world supply of Iraqi dinar of 25,000 (I've read post stating 25 trillion dinar are out there based on 2008 numbers) to keep it simple and you guys can let me know if it makes sense or not.

1st scenario is to RV once and come out the gate at the predicted value of $3 US:

$3 US RV x 25,000 IQD = $75,000 US

2nd scenario is to RV at a lower rate ($.50) and increase it incrementally over a 3 year period at the same rate for simplicities sake and at each RV 50% of the supply is cashed in :

1/1/11 - $.50 x 12,500 = $6,250

6/11/11 - $1 x 6,250 + $6,250

1/1/12 - $1.50 x 3,125 = $4,687.50

6/1/12 - $2 x 1,562.50 = $3,125

1/1/13 - $2.50 x 781.25 = $1.953.13

6/1/13 - $3 x 781.25 = $2,343.75

total cost to cash in all dinar and return to Iraq's reserves = $24,609.38

Obviously, this is an oversimplified scenario but seems to me that scenario 2 is a more realistic and economically beneficial option that scenario 1. I don't want to be a downer but even a $.50 RV makes this investment a winner.

I point this out because there seems to be a lot of people banking on the RV over $3 and I don't want anyone shooting themselves if it doesn't happen. I also have noticed in life that if most people are saying one thing is going to happen ($3+ RV) then it usually is the opposite that happens.

[Action316]

I'm glad you brought that up because normally I keep these conspirocy theories to myself BUT we all know (or at least most of us) when this rv's for our favor, when we cash in, our IQD is not being shipped back to Iraq (CBI), some although think that. Federal reserve will attain that.

This situation (IRAQ IE RV) in the magnitude that it is and in the world economic critical wound that is currently upon us falls right in line with the power intities that be for the perfect time of the creation and 50 year plan for the one world currency.

Alot of people think this is hogwash but their blinded falsly by innocently not paying attention to economic monetary news. It's out their daily, it's real and if people think that our president runs things their crazy. He is just a puppet in the grand scheme of things.

When this RV for Iraq occurs, it is the start of new things that have been in the works for a long long time.....

This iz not the Govz 1st Rodeo... we will have RV it iz just a matter of when and how much

[iqdheadlines]

A $3.00 RV is only being conservative when Kuwait had an RV of $9.00 before it when down to over $3.00 a week later.

[marcuscurtis]

The U.S., European Union, China, and Japan combine to generate about

$27.555 trillion in gross domestic product, which represents 50.65% of

the world domestic product.

For estimation purposes, we'll assume they also control 50.65% of the

world money supply. The four regions combine for an M2 money supply of

$23.559 trillion. That translates to a world money supply of $46.513

trillion.

http://askville.amaz...questId=3612391

Bash me for asking a simple question OR leave a legitimate response.....

How can a country like Iraq......OR ANY COUNTRY for that matter.....possess a currency that will hold a value of over 80 trillion US dollars?

think........think............think

I don’t know what the rate will be. I don’t know when the dinar will gain value. I just believe that it will through research I have done. I stay away from rate and date debates for two reasons. First I am unable to verify anything, and second I don’t like riding an emotional rollercoaster based on hype. That being said I need to point out that the numbers in the article you posted are way off and I will explain why.

It is typical for an economist to come on DV and point to the GDP and say we only have 50 trillion total money supply world wide and that is why we can not RV for over a dollar. There are several mistakes in this, and I have covered most of them in previous posts and threads on DV. So I will only give a summary here and not go into too much detail.

Mistake 1 The M2 money count is off. It is not 6 trillion. It is more like 8.5 trillion. I suspect this is an much older article that only takes into account the M money supply when trying to determine the worlds money supply.

Mistake 2 The M3 money supply is not 9.4 trillion it is more like 14 trillion. Once again this is an old article.

Mistake 3 They use GDP to try and track the worlds money supply. A lot of people make this mistake. GDP tracks the flow of money, but is does not and cannot tell you how much money is in the world. This is much like trying to figure out how much water is behind a dam by watching the trickle on the other side. If money is not moving and is not in circulation then it is not counted and there is a lot of stagnate money just sitting around.

Mistake 4 US money that is circulation overseas is not counted in this scenario. Two thirds of the US dollar is outside the United States. It is used to buy and sell oil. China and Russia just recently announced that it will no longer use the US dollar when exchanging goods between each other. This is an attempt to weaken the US dollar. You can count all the Rubbles and Wuhan you want and convert it to try and figure out their money supply, but US money can be found in a lot of countries around the world and that can not be ignored in the calculations.

Mistake 5 No one took into account the Fractional Reserve Banking system as outlined in Modern Money Mechanics. Fraction Reserve Banking is not counted in the M1, M2, M3, or M4 money supply. FRB expands the money supply. This is how it works.

Someone walks into a bank and opens a savings account for 25,000. we will call him Bob. If there was a reserve limit of 10 percent then the bank would be required to hold 10 percent of the money, but it could loan out the rest. This means the bank would keep 2,500 dollars and loan the rest out. The next day I walk on to a car lot to buy a new car. I finance 22,500 from the same bank that Bob has his savings account with. Because the bank has 22,500 from Bob’s account they can finance the loan and charge me interest. The crazy thing is that the money they use to finance the car is made up when I get approved for the loan. It does not come out of the existing money Bob put in yesterday, It is newly created money with interest. The bank has the right to make that loan and create that money because Bob opened up a savings account yesterday.

Now add the 25,000 with the 22,500 you get 47,500. Now the money that was loaned out is deposited in the car dealers account. The bank that has the dealers account can now loan 20,450 dollars. When it loans this amount it will also be newly created money. So far the total money is 67,450.00 this money was expanded by 42,950.00, and on it goes.

Also consider that the reserve limit has been removed. Since there is now no reserve limit the initial deposit can be expanded to 75,000. Under Fractional Reserve Banking the debt is monetized and the money supply is expanded. This is not calculated using M’s or GDP

Consider this: over 10 trillion is missing from social security. That is more than the M2 money supply. There is somewhere around 8.5 trillion in retirement accounts like 401 k and pension funds. Total retirement 18.5 trillion that’s more than the M3 money supply in the US. If there is only 14 trillion according to M3 (which is suppose to be total money supply) then how is it that there is 18.5 trillion tied into retirement assets. The Rothschild family is projected to be worth 500 trillion and that is said to be a little over half the worlds money supply.

Bottom line is you cannot use the M’s or GDP to try and figure out the worlds money supply. I am in no way trying to make an argument for a 3.00 RV. All I am saying is the world money supply is much larger than 50 trillion. All of this can be supported through links I supplied in older post on this forum. I will leave you one link to consider.

Missing money