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Doc31

Stop Relying on Your Certificate and De La Rue Machines

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Thank you so much, good information. I bought all my dinars through 5/3 Bank, they will be responsable for any problems I could have.

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Thanks for the details. At the risk of sounding ignorant. My printing background tells me that it would be cheaper to buy the dinar then to try to counterfit it.

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Thank you for your research into this subject. leave it to the bank to come up with unnecessary steps to make it seem as though there was some impressive action required to authenticate our bills.. They have to make themselves seem important. to justify the fees they will want to charge us to cash in.. B)

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I refer to "idiots" in the term of government officials just as we have idiots running the USA government. Nothing was meant towards the people it is just a terminology for "crooked officials"..

I was being nice by stating idiots…

B)

I agree - these people who deem themselves government officials / politicians .. are causing the people of Iraq a lot of grief with thier own personal agendas ... they need to get this thing organized and under way. This delay is rather serious and costly to many - not just to us.

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Amazing Article Doc (as usual) You should turn it into an mini E-Book and sell it on the Net... or create a Counterfeit Dinar For Dummies book on Amazon.

:lol: Sorry folks, it's just the American Capitalist Entrepreneur in me... :D

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Thank you for a fantastic and informative post. This especially puts some dealers in their places who have videos up that make any of us who did not buy from them be wary. I especially liked your clear description of how to inspect our own notes.

I love this forum!!

Thank you for your research into this subject. leave it to the bank to come up with unnecessary steps to make it seem as though there was some impressive action required to authenticate our bills.. They have to make themselves seem important. to justify the fees they will want to charge us to cash in.. B)

Absolutely right on!!

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Doc, thanks for the awesome information. I agree with others .. this is one of the most informative posts I've seen.

I do have a question ... in your research, did you by chance discuss banks using the De La Rue machine to verify authentic currency? It seems this information is to help us determine if what we have is authentic and I certainly agree that a certificate provided with our dinars is not really worth much ... but how will this play out at a bank if that is where we cash in?

Please forgive me if I missed this info in your post ... I read it a few times and still could have missed it . The banks require this, or so I was told by my bank, so just wondering what your thoughts are on that.

Thanks again for such a wonderful post.

luckylucy

The Infamous De La Rue Machine

Stop Relying on Your Certificate and/or a De La Rue Machine Scan for Authenticity of Your IQD

Most holders of IQD know that they are printed by the De La Rue Corporation of Viables, Basingstoke, Hampshire, England with some of the most sophisticated equipment in the world while utilizing some of the most difficult to counterfeit features imaginable. It only makes sense that they would also produce a cash counting machine with verification/authentication features.

We’ve all heard about how the De La Rue Machine, specifically the Brandt 8625, which is used to authenticate IQD

by most vendors ... and when IQD are run through them you get a certificate telling you that your IQD is the real deal! When I started buying I didn’t get a certificate … nor did I fret since I was purchasing IQD from the largest purveyor of IQD in America at the time and because I understood that the certificate proffered is only as good as the people who write it and will be good only as long as they are in business (when they close their doors and you haven’t verified your IQD; if they are indeed counterfeit, you are stuck … no one to take to court and only yourself to blame).

My plan was to learn the security features of the IQD which seemed more prudent than a certificate … and become as expert as possible rather than rely on someone else. We have a small group in SW Florida that helps folks purchase IQD by sharing banking fees and FedEx expenses. As our little group grew I taught all that bought IQD; insisting that they count the number of bills that they received to verify that they had indeed received what was due them and then one by one go through the steps of authenticating an Iraqi Dinar. After a few tries, most could carry on a conversation while going through the steps taking anywhere from 1.5 – 3 seconds per bill.

Several weeks ago a friend who had purchased for himself and his friends called. He was worried because two bills appeared to have the same serial number. I told him that I was sure that with careful scrutiny that he would see a slight difference in the Arabic numbers but that if he would bring them over I would replace them with other notes. He agreed and arrived within minutes. I examined the notes and with my 55 year old eyes they did look very similar … I told him that non-familiar scripts often appear the same. I used a 10X diamond loupe and the differences were obvious immediately. I handed him the loupe and he instantly concurred. Regardless, I handed him two different notes to give his friend and explained that they were obviously sequential … at least within 9 digits of each other (still not knowing their numbering system). We later discovered that they were indeed sequential … the Eastern Arabic numbers for 2 and 3. He was grateful that I knew what it was and that I handled it quickly and succinctly. For me … I merely swapped two good bills for two other good bills. No big deal.

This past weekend, this same friend called me and asked what I thought about buying a De La Rue machine. “That way, everyone could run their’s through the machine and have increased confidence in their purchase/investment/currency exchange/whatever.” I really didn’t see the need for one … however, I did understand that he or his friend were still a bit unnerved about the sequential bills ... in fact the only reason that I could see to buy one would be to help me accurately count bills for buyers and I told him that I had heard that they were very expensive. He told me that he had located some used units (the same ones used by all of the IQD vendors) and their price was not all that bad if I could find a couple of guys to go in with us. He sent me a link and I spent the weekend looking into it. What I found was eye opening to say the least!

Briefly, I discovered that there are various types of counterfeit detection systems, including multi-currencies: * UV (Ultraviolet) * IR (Infra-Red) * EMG (Enhanced Magnetics) * MTD (Metal Thread) * PPD (Paper Properties Detection) for US$ * SMDS (Superior Magnetic Detection System) or €III detector and more. Mostly I discovered that these were for authentication of the most highly counterfeited currency on the planet, the USD. They don’t apply to IQD or hardly any other currency that you might be familiar with.

To see exactly what was going on when a De La Rue 8625 processed bills, I called De La Rue (now Talaris) and asked for the most experienced rep that they had regarding all of their models and authentication. I had to wait for a call back from a different time zone but the wait was worth it because this guy knew all of the products new and old. When I quizzed him about IQD he told me that the only feature that it has that was identifiable by a currency counter is UV. (This is actually borne out in the video above, about 16 seconds into the clip, as he explains, “that the Saddam Dinar has a different UV signature than the New Iraqi Dinar”.) I told him that the UV feature is possibly the least impressive feature on the IQD (which is rated as the 4th most difficult to counterfeit) and that any concert/bar/dance hall patron had experienced a version of it when their hand/etc. was stamped with an ultraviolet ink via a rubber stamp which was only visible under a wood’s lamp/UV light/black light. Most people think it’s great because it seems like it “magically” appears from nowhere … when in reality using a rubber stamp of the same size and shape and applied to the correct location on a bill with ink of the approximate wave length is “child’s play”. When I asked him if doing the aforementioned on a piece of white paper cut to the same size as an IQD and placed in a stack of IQD, would be rejected as a counterfeit or whether it would pass as authentic he responded, “it’s possible” that it would be authenticated.

I asked about other models at any price and I was told that when a machine had other detection systems that they had to be turned off! The only exception to this were two European systems with patent right infringement problems in America and costing about $45,000 (named N-Tegra and N-Vision) and designed for tellers for a buy/sell currency situation where the currencies were identified by authenticating software and stored in the systems vault (in and out) rather than involving the main vault. My guy didn’t know whether the authentication software even existed for IQD!

Bottom line … IQD authentication is by the easiest to fake security feature …the postage stamp size UV feature on the back of the IQD! Not the raised ink. Not the water mark. Not the foil strip. Not the color changing ink. Not the metallic ink at the dove nor the backside of the foil strip. Not the paper. Not the webbing. Not positional placement of objects in relation to other objects on the bills. And certainly not a combination of any of these security features!

To counterfeit the IQD you would not only have to be a master forger but a master paper maker. These two skills are not one in the same but are two separate skill sets. The fourth most difficult to counterfeit! Yet the currency counter authentication feature is not MTD (metal thread) AND UV … Nor is it just MTD ... it is just UV … UNBELIEVABLE!!!

For the record, the serial numbers are written in Eastern Arabic. The numeral conversions can be discovered here: http://www.dinarprofits.com/iraqi_dinar_information/security_features/

My friend and I have since decided that we don’t need a De La Rue machine to authenticate anything! Counting machines can be purchased at Sam’s Club for less than a used De La Rue machine.

I believe that the “intel” from various sites regarding banks requiring a De La Rue machine to "actually authenticate" IQD for RI/RV is at the least suspect … they may use it for convenience sake but a $5 hand held black light will do the same thing. Yes, I understand that processing hundreds of thousands of bills will preclude them from doing this ... that is why I said "actually authenticate" ... and they do need something to speed up the process or they would hold up our money forever ... and yes it is the only thing available to them. If I haven't already made my point it's just that the equipment be used ... isn't really up to the job of authenticating anything.

As far as bank employees requiring training on the De La Rue machine … I have serious doubts. I mean 1) plug unit in 2) turn unit on 3) place stack of bills in tray 4) press start button … there … you’ve been trained.

Didn’t get your training? Here’s the Operator’s Manual : www.welchsystems.com/DTP-DATA-8625-0302.pdf take a minute … okay, now you are trained!

Please understand, I’m not taking a shot at Frank … I’m taking a shot at those who I believe lied to Frank! I don’t like it when other folks lie to the folks who help me on a regular basis.

Further, I’m not taking a shot at vendors … as far as I can tell … short of individually teaching buyers how to authenticate IQD they’ve done what they can to protect themselves and buyers by utilizing the DLR 8625. In fact many have an authentication page showing the 25K note features on their website for this reason.

And while I’m not happy with the De La Rue Corp … I’m not taking a shot at them either.

What I’m really doing is shining a light on the inadequacy of the technology that is supposedly standing between us and counterfeiters. I support buying from legitimate IQD vendors with IRS/US Treasury licenses. The problem is that millions of IQD are sold on ebay, Craig’s List, and the like. I’m not saying that they are all counterfeit and I’m not saying that all vendors are solid. I’m saying that you had better know your “stuff” when buying from anyone! How much was supposedly “brought back” to the States by an acquaintance? How many times have you heard “I trust so-and-so”? When investing or exchanging your hard earned cash for IQD that just won’t cut it!

I recommend learning these and the procedure that we go through is this:

1) Don’t forget that one of the simplest ways to identify an authentic IQD is to take the bill between your fingers (we recommend upper right and lower left corners with the numbers facing you that’s the front) and search for “texture” … a color copy will have none. Raised ink on a bill is a special ink and process that generally requires heat to activate (an extra step in the printing process that many counterfeiters will be unable to duplicate).

2) With it still between your fingers hold it up to the light and find the horse’s head watermark on the right of the bill (25K note)

3) Also search for the foil strip/thread usually about 40% from left edge

4) Tip the bill toward you (not flip) until it is flat and follow the foil strip from step #3 and you should see a metallic ink in small rectangles and even intervals down the backside

5) With the bill still tipped, move your eyes to the right side of the bill and find a silver dove (looks like a mustache) nearest to you which is a second metallic ink feature.

6) Straight down the bill from the dove, at the bottom of the bill is a webbed button … rock the bill back and forth slightly and verify the color changing ink feature

7) Place the backside of the bill under a black light/UV light and a small postage stamp area will glow in what looks to be a bush at about the upper right 1/3 margin.

There are more features written in Eastern Arabic that are wasted on us but these 7 steps will give you the confidence that you are looking for. Educating yourself and placing yourself among the elite IQD holders is paramount in accomplishing your financial goals.

And here’s a link with a partial list of the security features on the IQD if you don’t have one: http://www.iraqpapermoney.com/new/images/25000dinar.jpg

I hope that this has been helpful to you.

Peace

Doc

a.k.a. Doc31, Whatsupdoc31 (depending on what blog or forum you might be on)

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]doc31, Thanks for your research and this great post ! I'm going to check my dinar as soon as I get home.

Great post and great work Doc! Thanks for dedicating the time for a terrific post.

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Doc, thanks for the awesome information. I agree with others .. this is one of the most informative posts I've seen.

I do have a question ... in your research, did you by chance discuss banks using the De La Rue machine to verify authentic currency? It seems this information is to help us determine if what we have is authentic and I certainly agree that a certificate provided with our dinars is not really worth much ... but how will this play out at a bank if that is where we cash in?

Please forgive me if I missed this info in your post ... I read it a few times and still could have missed it . The banks require this, or so I was told by my bank, so just wondering what your thoughts are on that.

Thanks again for such a wonderful post.

luckylucy

Thanks for the nice comments and your welcome.

Regarding banks ... I'm guessing that we've all heard stories about how certain banks that you might want to take your IQD to post RI/RV will count it, give you a receipt, and ship it off to (only) God knows where and notify you within 10-14 days whether it is good or not and what your bank balance is.

1) first and foremost ... no one is separating me from my IQD without a bank balance verified in my account

2) they are shipping it off because they don't have the proper equipment "in house" to "authenticate" (my hasn't that word taken on new meaning) the IQD and so they must outsource the process ... probably done at a larger/more centralized location (that's why they call them branches)

3) the company that printed the currency is De La Rue ... many banks will own at least a few DLR machines because don't forget that De La Rue is a UK company that prints many currencies throughout the world and banks may have them for use with these other currencies including:

Central Bank of Bahrain

Central Bank of Barbados

Central Bank of Belize

Bank of England

Reserve Bank of Fiji

Banco de Guatemala

Banco Central de Honduras

Central Bank of Iraq

Isle of Man Government

Bank of Mauritius

Bank of Jamaica

Central Bank of Kenya

Central Bank of Kuwait

National Bank of the Republic of Macedonia

Bank of Scotland

The Royal Bank of Scotland

Monetary Authority of Singapore

Central Bank of Sri Lanka

Bank of Tanzania

4) my question is what choice do banks have but to use the De La Rue machines to "authenticate"? You can buy more expensive (and less) but you are saddled with but one lowly technology. If included in tandem with the MTD (metal thread) technology as indicated in the post it could be terrific. I'm merely pointing out a weak link.

I will share with you what one of the guys in my group emailed me ... he told me that he has scrutinized his IQD so much with the process that we use that "if they are fakes, they are such good ones that they will pass!" LOL

PEACE

Doc31

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Doc31.

You need to get out a bit more mate.

Spend time with the kids, if you aint sure there yours take to the bank & run them via the uv ray machine.

Good work but hardly worth the time mate :blink:

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Doc31.

You need to get out a bit more mate.

Spend time with the kids, if you aint sure there yours take to the bank & run them via the uv ray machine.

Good work but hardly worth the time mate :blink:

LOL

I've got God children and Grandchildren ... I get out just fine ... but thankyou

Thanks, but I disagree ... if only one person rests easier, doesn't get scammed, or personally benefits from the time I spent compiling that info ... it was worth it!

Actually, I enjoyed the chase! But thanks for watching my intensity level ... LOL

Peace Zantac

Doc31

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We are coming down to the wire here folks ... you newbies and you vets who have not checked your IQD to date should go through the steps. It doesn't matter where or from whom you bought them. The moment you walked out of the bank you gave up the right to complain about them. If you did not immediately contact the vendor upon receipt from FedEx or UPS or USPS ... it's over ... whatever you have is yours ... good or counterfeit.

You won't just be embarrassed when you go to cash them in ... you will be devastated!

The steps are simple and black lights are cheap (and/or you know someone who already owns one).

Peace

Doc31

Edited by Doc31
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What's up Doc? lol

Thank you for your time on this! I will not let mine part without a balance! And thank you for your advice. I went and counted my shipments and to my suprise,:D I found that one of my bundles had an extra note in it! These were counted by a Rue machine.:unsure: This mistake will make me very careful when turning in mine or receiving any!!

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I have to ask, has anyone seen a counterfeit bill? I would think that is would cost more to make a counterfeit they what the bill is worth to sell right now.

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