Why Iraqs currency reserves matter.......

[fastarnie]

Yea there are funds from that being held in NY, but if Im not mistaken, i think they also spread some out in other places. I could be wrong but i think i saw a glimpse of an article talking about the EU funds being released and i thought it mentioned DFI.....

I'll take your word for it. Just was hoping they had a bunch of money we didn't know about. Enough perhaps to change the game a little bit....

[skitealwedrop]

Just talking about the foreign currency reserves which they predict will be over 100 billion by years end......it consists of mostly USD but there are others included......

Show me an audited Balance Sheet for the CBI and the Republic of Iraq. KPMG, offshore doesn't count. Their numbers are wrong.

[keepmwlknfny]

Show me an audited Balance Sheet for the CBI and the Republic of Iraq. KPMG, offshore doesn't count. Their numbers are wrong.

You dont think the CBIs own balance sheets are correct? Like they dont know how much of their own currency they issued??

Why are their numbers wrong? There are audits done by Ernst and Young as well and those numbers seem to be in line with what the CBI states....had to format my hard drive from all the lopster porn lol....so it would take some digging to find them again...

[dontlop]

Finally, that is correct. Note nothing is owed to anyone just due to the trade deficit.

Of course it is important. That is why we OWE them money, its principal and interest on the bonds we are paying off. They are loaning us the money we paid them for goods. If they just bought say commercial real estate (in the US or anywhere) this would not result in the US owing China.

the way i see it you were wrong the entire time and you still l dont have a clue .. i was talking back and fourth with keep and you came along butted in as usual and took this whole conversation into something that had nothing to do with what me and keep were even talking about .. thats what i think .

[LIBoy]

Thank goodness we have you here to save us lost sheep from mass confusion.

I knew there was too much of a positive vibe on this site lately. People have actually been having fun and the number of members on the board has been the highest I've seen in a long time. So of course the time was ripe for you to come along and give us your pearls of wisdom as to why Iraq can't back it's currency.

You are the book smart kid who has no street smarts and sees things only in black and white. Meanwhile what is going on in Iraq is anything but by the book. It's time to think outside the box and have belief in a higher power that is telling the rest of us that something great is going to happen. You don't have to be afraid of the unknown, you only need to have faith in it.

[makecents]

the way i see it you were wrong the entire time and you still l dont have a clue .. i was talking back and fourth with keep and you came along butted in as usual and took this whole conversation into something that had nothing to do with what me and keep were even talking about .. thats what i think .

I don't use it often but, LOL!!

You go on and on about a trade deficit meaning one country owes another the difference and only got the picture that it was bonds bought by the country with the surplus after I spelled it out for you (after all you kept using the US and Iraq as the example and they do NOT buy each others bonds, Iraq doesn't even have a bond market yet).

[dontlop]

I don't use it often but, LOL!! :lol:/>/>

You go on and on about a trade deficit meaning one country owes another the difference and only got the picture that it was bonds bought by the country with the surplus after I spelled it out for you (after all you kept using the US and Iraq as the example and they do NOT buy each others bonds, Iraq doesn't even have a bond market yet).

you prove yourself to be nothin but a dam liar . we were not talking about that you changed the topic using a sentence out of one of my posts to keep .. . al your posts add up to complete garbage

I don't use it often but, LOL!! :lol:/>

You go on and on about a trade deficit meaning one country owes another the difference and only got the picture that it was bonds bought by the country with the surplus after I spelled it out for you (after all you kept using the US and Iraq as the example and they do NOT buy each others bonds, Iraq doesn't even have a bond market yet).

we werent talking about anything that you changed the topic to .. then you continously drag out with remark after remark . at first like your some concerned person trying to help .. then you slowly esculate it into a debate . then you pretend like your correct and pretend like i finally got it right .. your nothing but a trouble maker . and not a very intelligent trouble maker either .. just a nusance , a pest .

hey make cents .. ill see ya tommarro im getting tired im going to sleep . ya want to debate that too lol

ill see ya tomarro im sure youll be here you got no life either .. and ill smack ya around as usual since i see you get a kick out of it .. good night cent . ill see ya tommarro ..

Edited February 3, 2013 by dontlop

[makecents]

you prove yourself to be nothin but a dam liar . we were not talking about that you changed the topic using a sentence out of one of my posts to keep .. . al your posts add up to complete garbage

we werent talking about anything that you changed the topic to .. then you continously drag out with remark after remark . at first like your some concerned person trying to help .. then you slowly esculate it into a debate . then you pretend like your correct and pretend like i finally got it right .. your nothing but a trouble maker . and not a very intelligent trouble maker either .. just a nusance , a pest .

Oh stop, you're just embarrassing yourself. You brought up the whole trade deficit topic by attempting to use it to try and support your case. In a post to Keep you said:

if iraq bought 20 billion dollars worth of goods from the us .. and the us bought 25 billion of oil .. . the us would have a trade deficit of 5 billion dollars they would need to pay iraq or they could let it ride into the next phisical quarter or year.

but since you are totally wrong about that, it does not support anything. If you want to have a private chat, a public forum is not the place for it. I AM trying to help folks here. You might sound like you know what you are talking about, but hardly ever do. I merely point out these many flaws. I'm sure you do find that a nuisance. Nothing personal, just factual.

[Darin]

Are you guys married? You guys sure seem to bicker like it...

Call ya Mr & Mrs Bickerson lol

[dontlop]

WELL AT LEAST WERE ON THE SAME PAGE HERE BEING NEITHER OF US BELIEVE FIAT CURRENCYS NEED TO BE BACKED UP BY RESERVES ..ALTHOUGH THERE IS ONE STIPULATION .. ALL THE FIAT CURRENCYS OUT SIDE OF THE COUNTRY OF ORIGIN I DO THINK HAVE TO BE BACKED UP BY RESERVES .. THATS ACCORDING TO THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANK OF NEW YORK ANY WAY . .. OR AT LEAST THIS IS WHAT I THINK THEY MEANT HERE >>> In order to sustain a fixed exchange rate, a country must have sufficient foreign exchange reserves, often dollars, and be willing to spend them, to purchase all offers of its currency at the established exchange rate. When a country is unable or unwilling to do so, then it must devalue its currency to a level that it is able and willing to support with its foreign exchange reserves.

AS LONG AS IRAQ SETS UP LEGAL TENDER LAWS WITHIN ITS BORDERS ,, DE-DOLLARIZATION WOULD BE IN EFFECT . AND THERE WOULD BE NO REASON TO BACK UP ANY CURRENCY UNLESS IT IS USED OUT OF COUNTRY SOMEWHERE ..

WHO KNOWS ,, MAYBE ITS GOING TO FLOAT ITS CURRENCY .. BECAUSE A FIXED RATE THEY WOULD HAVE TO FOLLOW RULES , RULES LIKE THIS .. ALSO FROM THE FEDERAL RESERVE IN NEW YORK >>>>> When a country is unable or unwilling to do so, then it must devalue its currency to a level that it is able and willing to support with its foreign exchange reserves.

FLOATING THEIR CURRENCY DEMAND WOULD DICTATE ITS VALUE..

this is my original post .. you make cents started your entire rant from here

you started by tearing this post in half .. and responded with your post coming up .

this is you in your first post to me :

Far more "offers of exchange" come from within Iraq due to imports than (will) come from the outside. They import about as much dollar value as the dollar value of oil they export (sometimes more and hence go into debt, sometimes less and hence have a surplus). In 2009 they imported $41B of stuff so about 48T IQD could have been exchanged (some might have stayed in dollars).

Read more:

i responded to you but i forgot to put your name on it in post # 21

if iraq has a 50 billion dollar trade balance with the us .. theres not another pile of money somewhere else being used up in trade . once the wto comes into the picture .. declarations of value, taxes . payments are resolved thru the wto .. balances and trade deficits would have to be squared away .. if iraq bought 20 billion dollars worth of goods from the us .. and the us bought 25 billion of oil .. . the us would have a trade deficit of 5 billion dollars they would need to pay iraq or they could let it ride into the next phisical quarter or year.. ... in the end iraqis will be using their own legal tender after de-dollarization not dollars ..i hope no one thinks if you buy something from some other countryy you first have to go to the foriegn exchange and exchange your currency

. in the end one dollar is redeemable for one dollar in the united states ..no gold .. just another dollar

Read more:

i had no reason to be talking to keep about any of this .. you jumped in ..as usual and started this crap .

heres your response in post # 23

Completely ridiculous. In 2011 the US exported $104B to China and imported $399B from China, so you're saying China actually "needs to pay" the US about $295B dollars?

Read more:

which is a tattally made up bougus post that made absolutly no sense .. your seeing everything backwards .

shall i go any further or . are you going to stick with your how i was going on annd on crap about trade deficits and people owing the difference in the trade deficit . we were discussing currency outflows and the need of those currencies to be backed if they were out of country ..

you destroyed keeps topic with garbage and stupid qwuestions to me and me only like you always do . your nothing more than a liar and a trouble maker .. live with that .. ill be back tommarro .. and slap ya around some more .. you happy now you destroyed keeps topic with stupidity ?

[makecents]

shall i go any further or . are you going to stick with your how i was going on annd on crap about trade deficits and people owing the difference in the trade deficit .

You did go on and on about it. I never said that was the first thing you said.

we were discussing currency outflows and the need of those currencies to be backed if they were out of country ..

you destroyed keeps topic with garbage and stupid qwuestions to me and me only like you always do .

When anyone posts an obvious logical fallacy or false information, if I see it, I'll point it out. The first I saw in this thread was indeed the one you show about demand for exchange (i.e. backing) coming only from outside the country, which as I pointed out ignores the huge amount from imports. Many of your posts have such flaws and this entire thread shows that in spades.

your nothing more than a liar and a trouble maker .. live with that .. ill be back tommarro .. and slap ya around some more .. you happy now you destroyed keeps topic with stupidity ?

I try to be honest at all the times actually and stand by what I posted. Further I think I have commented only about the contents of your posts, not about you. If you didn't want the interruption all you had to do was not respond. But you did not take that course.

and don't forget to put out the trash and lock up dear.... oh wait maybe that's my job...

Edited February 3, 2013 by makecents

[20Mil]

your right , no one wants a trade deficit like the one you described with china .. or the one i described with iraq .because that trade deficit has to be coverd with foriegn reserves .. in my example .. which you call rediculous .. the united states spent 5 billion more in iraq .. its a net gain for iraq of 5 billion dollars .. iraq spent 20 billion here.. we spent 25 billion there ..

how did your china thing go .... the us spent 399 bilion in china ..... china spent 104 billion here .. we owe china the difference .. you say china owes us

i say we spent 295 billion more dollars in china than they spent here . so those dollars are accountable and are in china and if china wanted to have that in cash chinese yen ...,,we wouldnt have it in foriegn currency .. so we owe it to them . we owe them over a trillion dollars worth of yen right now ..do we have it ? nope ... ..they hold our promisary debt notes . and we cant pay. what whats next we go to the exchange and buy chineses yaun to buy things .. well guess what was used to buy those yaun .. yep the us dollar debt note .. yep we owe that much to them .. swap it out if ya want .. with what .. more yaun .. ya need to buy more yaun to do that ..what are ya going to buy it with .. dollars ? .. then ya owe them the yaun again for the next set of dollars . it doesnt work like that

when ya go to the exchange to buy your chinese yaun ... who do ya think you bought it from . our government ..the us treasury ? .. we dont print yaun .. the chinese government does .. our government owes their government the difference

This is completely FALSE! The country running a trade deficit DOES NOT pay anybody anything... Where are you getting your facts from DontLop?????

I read through a lot of your posts and am completely baffled by the nonsense that comes out of your mouth. Do you listen to what you say? I try to hold my tongue by not responding but you simply have no idea about economics but you try to come across as a know it all and it is pretty pathetic. OK, my rant is done, moving on...

MakeCents,

You have a pretty good understanding of what is going on so hats off to you for trying to bring reality to this forum.

ok so china comes up with 295 bilion extra us dollars , so they just throw it away according to you .. . according to you everyone just goes to the foriegn exchange before they buy things in another country . .. so if 295 billion dollars exchanged into chinese yen equalling the deficit in trade .. so we can buy things from chinese companys .. now those dollars have to be honored by the united states treasury..,we didnt give them gold for those yaun .. we gave them debt notes .. the us dollar promisary note ..and the chinese says i want to redeem your debt notes ..and we dont have the foriegn reserves ..what do they do .. they run up a trade deficit .. and our govt owes that money to china .. its not a forgiven debt .. why do you think we owe china so much money ..

China buys US Treasuries with their surplus. Should they decide to "cash in" all of their US Treasury Bills at one time it would act as a doubled edged sword. Yes the USD would be affected as trillions of USD are brought back home and value of the USD would probably drop, however, being that US is one of the biggest (if not the biggest) importers of china's products our USD would by less goods from China which would obviously have a negative affect on China's exports. China has a budget surplus due to all of the exporting it does to the US, if exports fall then their budget surplus falls. Would they want to jeopardize this by dumping all of their US T Bills? I think not...

You are right though that IF china dumped all of their US Treasuries the USD would lose value. Why don't you see this relation to all of the IQD that people cash in after a significant RV? Trillions and trillions of IQD are "cashed in" by speculators which would in turn send the value of the IQD DOWN! Amazing how you understand the concept for the USD but not for the IQD...

[zul]

There seems to be some questions or even some confusion on the importance of Iraqs currency reserves. Some think they dont matter and dont play a role in the dinar and its value. Being that Iraq is using a fixed exchange rate system or simply, being a pegged currency it does actually play a huge part. Yes, we know that all currencies are fiat, but even under that category and system, there still is a value placed on currency and what backs its value. Floating currencies operate differently then pegged currencies, and while there is a POSSIBILITY that sometime in the future that Iraq could change their monetary policy, it might not even be for the currency we hold currently....could be for the new currency they plan on putting out, which would make more sense seeing as how at that point, the money supply would also be reduced drastically to manageable numbers.

So in all reality.....we need the CBI to drastically increase its foreign reserves, AND we need them to drastically reduce the amount in circulation WITHOUT deleting the zeros......it wont be a quick process, but its not impossible....

Keep,

What you posted are true facts ~ on the assumptions that their exchange rate are determined by fundamental factors relating to real economy.

At this time, it is almost impossible to determine whether Iraq’s currency/exchange rate is working the same way… (based on fundamental factors)…./ IF they are, I’m almost certain, the fundamental factors on which it depends, are themselves away from equilibrium.

In all reality, I still say, we cant totally discount the fact that speculative factors is part and parcel in determining exchange rate movements, at least for a short term movement. Especially for a country like Iraq.

[keepmwlknfny]

Thank goodness we have you here to save us lost sheep from mass confusion.

I knew there was too much of a positive vibe on this site lately. People have actually been having fun and the number of members on the board has been the highest I've seen in a long time. So of course the time was ripe for you to come along and give us your pearls of wisdom as to why Iraq can't back it's currency.

You are the book smart kid who has no street smarts and sees things only in black and white. Meanwhile what is going on in Iraq is anything but by the book. It's time to think outside the box and have belief in a higher power that is telling the rest of us that something great is going to happen. You don't have to be afraid of the unknown, you only need to have faith in it.

Do you always get this upset when you learn something new?

This thread was educational.....nothing negative about it....there were even things listed to watch for so that we can see a better return on this speculation......legitimate things that the CBI should or needs to do. Not once did anyone say that the CBI cant revalue or that we are not going to see any kind of revaluation ever lol.....

Would you rather read posts full of BS just because it makes you feel good inside? There are plenty of those coming from other sites, didnt think I needed to add to the hype campaign.......lol

You have no idea of what your speaking of about street smarts....nor where I came from, where I grew up, my environment around me and so on lol.....it really makes you sound silly when you assume what another knows, simply because they need more then blind faith to believe in something.....

[LIBoy]

Do you always get this upset when you learn something new?

This thread was educational.....nothing negative about it....there were even things listed to watch for so that we can see a better return on this speculation......legitimate things that the CBI should or needs to do. Not once did anyone say that the CBI cant revalue or that we are not going to see any kind of revaluation ever lol.....

Would you rather read posts full of BS just because it makes you feel good inside? There are plenty of those coming from other sites, didnt think I needed to add to the hype campaign.......lol

You have no idea of what your speaking of about street smarts....nor where I came from, where I grew up, my environment around me and so on lol.....it really makes you sound silly when you assume what another knows, simply because they need more then blind faith to believe in something.....

What you haven't been able to educate yourself on in the four years I've been reading or active on this site, is that for many of us this is a "faith based" investment. You can throw all the numbers and charts at me that you want and it means absolutely nothing. It goes well beyond anything you can see, touch or feel.

You are obviously not a faith based person, and I respect that. However, your lack of respect for those of us that are has been difficult for me to deal with for quite some time now. That is absolutely my issue and I need to deal with it. I pray every day for the ability to not allow other people's words and actions to have an effect on my state of mind. I've gotten better however I still have a way to go.

I hope that someday you will have a clearer understanding of what I am talking about.

To answer your original question. I would not say I am upset. I think frustrated is a better word and it is not because I learned something new, because I haven't. I don't think that you and I will ever agree on what this investment is truly about and that is ok. However your rigid stance and need to play devil's advocate in order to, as you claim, "educate" others is a form of antagonism and arrogance that I just don't enjoy seeing.

Take care.

[captl1]

Good Morning all.....let us remember one very important thing ...This is their country! It's their barbeque. They can do as they choose. We have no say so what so ever. They can Rv,Rd, or Ri at their choosing. We really don't know what they are worth for they surely have more than one set of books. They can and will do what they see fit for themselves. Throw reasoning out the window sit back and enjoy the ride! I really hate seeing people get upset when No One really knows.... So sit back respect one another and Go Ravens!

Edited February 3, 2013 by captl1

[keepmwlknfny]

What you haven't been able to educate yourself on in the four years I've been reading or active on this site, is that for many of us this is a "faith based" investment. You can throw all the numbers and charts at me that you want and it means absolutely nothing. It goes well beyond anything you can see, touch or feel.

You are obviously not a faith based person, and I respect that. However, your lack of respect for those of us that are has been difficult for me to deal with for quite some time now. That is absolutely my issue and I need to deal with it. I pray every day for the ability to not allow other people's words and actions to have an effect on my state of mind. I've gotten better however I still have a way to go.

I hope that someday you will have a clearer understanding of what I am talking about.

To answer your original question. I would not say I am upset. I think frustrated is a better word and it is not because I learned something new, because I haven't. I don't think that you and I will ever agree on what this investment is truly about and that is ok. However your rigid stance and need to play devil's advocate in order to, as you claim, "educate" others is a form of antagonism and arrogance that I just don't enjoy seeing.

Take care.

Its not just educating others.....provoking thought makes it a learning experience for all.....I learn new things from asking questions and having others bring their own info to the table. If no one asked questions in this world and we all just accepted everything as fact or for as it is, this would be a VERY boring world to live in and needless to say, we would not have come so far in civilization as we have today.

No one is harping on you or anyone else for having blind faith that the dinar with revalue in our favor.......you can do that all day long with your money if you wish. And just because I dont have blind faith in this, does not condemn me either for not living a faith based life.....there are many things in my life that I have faith about, I just choose not to mix faith with investing hard earned money.....just like I believe faith/religion and investments should not be mixed together......it can lead to poor financial choices....

Let me ask you.....do you think its fair for a lot of people on these boards, to come here, read some complete BS by a faceless person on the internet, and based on that made up nonsense, they go and blow more of their money that should be saved (cause they might be a dire situation) thinking that this will save them and get them out of their horrible financial crisis??

Or should there be another side presented so that they may actually think long and hard before making such a decision??

Good Morning all.....let us remember one very important thing ...This is their country! It's their barbeque. They can do as they choose. We have no say so what so ever. They can Rv,Rd, or Ri at their choosing. We really don't know what they are worth for they surely have more than one set of books. They can and will do what they see fit for themselves. Throw reasoning out the window sit back and enjoy the ride! I really hate seeing people get upset when No One really knows.... So sit back respect one another and Go Ravens!

Well I can agree on one thing.....

GO RAVENS!!!!!!

[captl1]

Debate is a great thing as long as people don't take it to heart.....Keep hope you and the family are well and thanks for taking the time to bring your side and knowledge to the debate.

One more thing "Go Ravens"!

[keepmwlknfny]

Debate is a great thing as long as people don't take it to heart.....Keep hope you and the family are well and thanks for taking the time to bring your side and knowledge to the debate.

One more thing "Go Ravens"!

Thanks bud....me and the lil princess will be watchin the bowl together pulling for ray lewis and the boys!!!

Her first super bowl .....

Its funny cause Ive been watching football with her all season, she isnt even 1 yet but from watching the panthers she has already learned how to high five daddy!

[Maggie123]

Thanks bud....me and the lil princess will be watchin the bowl together pulling for ray lewis and the boys!!!

Her first super bowl .....

Its funny cause Ive been watching football with her all season, she isnt even 1 yet but from watching the panthers she has already learned how to high five daddy!

Keepums Enjoy Your Day!

I Never Had Any Doubts About You Being A Great Daddy... She is one lucky little girl!

Bless You And Yours

Hugs, Maggie

(Would you please give that little princess a hug from me?)

[dontlop]

This is completely FALSE! The country running a trade deficit DOES NOT pay anybody anything... Where are you getting your facts from DontLop?????

I read through a lot of your posts and am completely baffled by the nonsense that comes out of your mouth. Do you listen to what you say? I try to hold my tongue by not responding but you simply have no idea about economics but you try to come across as a know it all and it is pretty pathetic. OK, my rant is done, moving on...

MakeCents,

You have a pretty good understanding of what is going on so hats off to you for trying to bring reality to this forum.

China buys US Treasuries with their surplus. Should they decide to "cash in" all of their US Treasury Bills at one time it would act as a doubled edged sword. Yes the USD would be affected as trillions of USD are brought back home and value of the USD would probably drop, however, being that US is one of the biggest (if not the biggest) importers of china's products our USD would by less goods from China which would obviously have a negative affect on China's exports. China has a budget surplus due to all of the exporting it does to the US, if exports fall then their budget surplus falls. Would they want to jeopardize this by dumping all of their US T Bills? I think not...

You are right though that IF china dumped all of their US Treasuries the USD would lose value. Why don't you see this relation to all of the IQD that people cash in after a significant RV? Trillions and trillions of IQD are "cashed in" by speculators which would in turn send the value of the IQD DOWN! Amazing how you understand the concept for the USD but not for the IQD...

. country a runs a deficit .. buying country b currency .. and country a never has to pay the difference . you clowns are so smart ..you must of gone to school at the same place

[dontlop]

i guees the united states doesnt care , they just print up more money to replace it once another country is stuck with it .. oh thats right they dont have it .. because they didnt have to give it to them ,if i was china id buy ships .. trilions ofdollars worth of ships aircratf carriers from north korea with those dollars .. and then north korea can be stuck with them . so thats how it works .. the united states spends its money all over the world .. then borrows the money back ... then spends it again .. then borrows it back and every time it takes us deeper and deeper in debt . man that dollar sure does go far ... but i guess only they can do that here in the united states, no other country can do it they have all these rules they must follow for a strict fiat currency system .. no borrowingof trilions of dolars to support your country and no printing of money and decreeing its value . just the united states , or we will blow you up with nukes .

so what your saying is everything in this video is true ..

MONEY AS DEBT ..

[Zman6]

What you haven't been able to educate yourself on in the four years I've been reading or active on this site, is that for many of us this is a "faith based" investment. You can throw all the numbers and charts at me that you want and it means absolutely nothing. It goes well beyond anything you can see, touch or feel.

You are obviously not a faith based person, and I respect that. However, your lack of respect for those of us that are has been difficult for me to deal with for quite some time now. That is absolutely my issue and I need to deal with it. I pray every day for the ability to not allow other people's words and actions to have an effect on my state of mind. I've gotten better however I still have a way to go.

I hope that someday you will have a clearer understanding of what I am talking about.

To answer your original question. I would not say I am upset. I think frustrated is a better word and it is not because I learned something new, because I haven't. I don't think that you and I will ever agree on what this investment is truly about and that is ok. However your rigid stance and need to play devil's advocate in order to, as you claim, "educate" others is a form of antagonism and arrogance that I just don't enjoy seeing.

Take care.

If you've been following this site for 4 years then u obviously have a good idea on what Keeps stance is on the Dinar. Why in the world would you read and respond to a thread that was started by Keep? It doesn't attack anyone. There's plenty of feel good threads on this site, perhaps you should stick to those.

I personally will continue to listen to both sides of the debate and make my own conclusions.

[makecents]

Good Morning all.....let us remember one very important thing ...This is their country! It's their barbeque. They can do as they choose. We have no say so what so ever.

It isn't our "say" that matters, its basic economics and the workings of currency.

They can Rv,Rd, or Ri at their choosing. We really don't know what they are worth for they surely have more than one set of books. They can and will do what they see fit for themselves.

Its a bit hard to imagine how a different set of books could conceal the economic realities of the country. Oil is bough by outside parties, payments are made, government budgets are executed. Could all that be even 10x BETTER than they say it is? Let alone 100x or 1000x? And what possibly would be their motivation to hide the fact that Iraq was not a war torn country but had a incredibly strong economy with a small money supply very low inflation and huge foreign reserves? You keep a 2nd set of books to hide BAD things, not good things. It makes no sense.

Throw reasoning out the window sit back and enjoy the ride! I really hate seeing people get upset when No One really knows.... So sit back respect one another and Go Ravens!

But you are not doing this, you are "reasoning" or more accurately rationalizing that they way this works is that they have a 2nd set of books. What you want is for reasoning to stop at the point you want, but reason doesn't work that way.

and I'm sorry to be even more upsetting, but the 49'ers are going to win!

Edited February 3, 2013 by makecents

[dontlop]

This is completely FALSE! The country running a trade deficit DOES NOT pay anybody anything... Where are you getting your facts from DontLop?????

Amazing how you understand the concept for the USD but not for the IQD...

only because the dinar isnt recognized yet like the us dollar is . if everything was in place in its true transparency. then i could accept that the dinar is internationally accepted . right now its not . i dont see how anyone can accept the dinar as an accepted currency .

pardon all my crap , sometimes my emotions get the best of me . i do procieve you as an intelligent person .. debt is debt .. if we dont owe them anything for all those trade deficits .. then we have no debt .. the fact is our dollars are debt notes nothing more. we owe all holders of the dollar . china has been carrying our debt notes for a long time that resulted fromour trade deficits with their country . andyou are correct if they choose to collect on this debt .. .. that in itself would not only hurt the us . it would hurt china , they would lose their biggest customer.. the u.s. /// what would they do then ... they would have to lay off a hundred million workers .. .. and we know what happens after that .. so they are forced to hold our debt .. they have no choice .. what do they do with that debt .. they invest in in our country and take even more .

that was the whole point of the conversation i was having .. if your currency(dept) out of country is collected on . you need something other than your currency to pay for it .. it has to be covered by foriegn reserves .. . all your local currency that is out of country has to be covered by foriegn reserves .. your local currency doesnt while its inside its country of origin .

in the united states .. our dollar is redeemable for a dollar .. thats it . because its fiat .. its not redeemable by our govt in anything else ... our govt backs our curency . with policy . now we can trade it for goods and sevices . but they dont except our goods and services , because we charge to much for them ..they can make the products themselves cheaper .. they do buy somethings but not enough to cover our debt. so we have debt. thats owed to them ..watch the video money as debt . just google ....."money as debt" . i know your smart , and you know things , but that utube series . takes it home ..their are a couple holes in it but . it covers the big picture .