Exactly what we were talking about GUN CONTROL!

[TonyDownTheShore]

It doesn't matter which side of the fence you are on, PLEASE take a couple seconds and PRAY for these beautiful kids and their families!

In Memory of the Angels of Sandy Hook Elementary School

This is the reason I'm so angry with guns, look at all the beautifull faces of these angels that were taken from their families and friends because some crazy guy had a gun and wanted to die.

I have been praying everyday that these angels are in a better place with God.

[Bumper64]

Mayor Bloomberg and other push for more gun control in the wake of this tragedy, but they ignore the real ways in which the tragedy could have actually been minimized

• A 1997 high school shooting in Pearl, Miss., was halted by the school's vice principal after he retrieved the Colt .45 he kept in his truck.

• A 1998 middle school shooting ended when a man living next door heard gunfire and apprehended the shooter with his shotgun.

• A 2002 terrorist attack at an Israeli school was quickly stopped by an armed teacher and a school guard.

• A 2002 law school shooting in Grundy, Va., came to an abrupt conclusion when students carrying firearms confronted the shooter.

• A 2007 mall shooting in Ogden, Utah, ended when an armed off-duty police officer intervened.

• A 2009 workplace shooting in Houston, Texas, was halted by two coworkers who carried concealed handguns.

• A 2012 church shooting in Aurora, Colo., was stopped by a member of the congregation carrying a gun.

• At the recent mall shooting in Portland, Ore., the gunman took his own life minutes after being confronted by a shopper carrying a concealed weapon.

Read more at: http://www.lp.org/ne...elf-defense-in/

Support the victims of this senseless, preventable tragedy at: https://newtown.uwwesternct.org/

[dontlop]

So does your wife and your daughter carry a gun too? and if you were facing a guy with a gun by the time you reached for your gun you'd be shot, who are you kidding?

if its that simple .. have congress first pass a law that no criminals can have guns any more ..

we will give it 1 year .. and if no criminals use a gun during that year .. i will galdly listen to the next step .. which will also be debatable

you dont make ANY sense right now

and their will always be guns for protection .. from wild animals .. hunting .. ect. ... your nonsense is going in one ear and out the other .. there is no debate here.. first eliminate the common criminal .. and every animal like bears .. wild dogs .. wolves .. aligators .. snakes .. .. and every single threat by both foriegn and domestic attackers.. ignorance doesnt win debates

if the govt comes for my weapons they better not be backing themselves with weapons ..they best come with reason .. not force

[RodandStaff]

Jeez bro, that brings me to tears every time I see it. All those little lives needlessly lost to the worst act of cowardice known to man. The debate will rage on forever as to how this could have been stopped, but the bottom line is if someone wants to kill someone and they are willing to die to do it, they are almost impossible to stop, gun or no gun, they will find a way to cause catastrophes. I truly believe an armed teacher or security guard would have ended this story without these children having to have their lives cut short by this nutcase.

I agree DiveDeepSix... but imo the objective is to eliminate the "soft targets" like schools, church's, etc... by placing at least one or two gun carriers at each of those sites. Read the post on "Defenseless Schools" ( http://dinarvets.com...entry1078291) and it's easy to see why these are magnets for these type of "terrorist's". You never see these cowards storm a police station...why??? ...cause they might get shot!!! Instead they go for the easy targets. Make each target less of a push over and they will be less likely to make such big statements (so to speak) unless they are highly trained... which imo reduces the number of threats significantly.

[DiveDeepSix]

Haha you're funny Rod, I'm not saying take guns away from everybody read all my posts, I think if you were being robbed by a guy with a gun, a knife or a baseball bat you would more than likely get hit before you got your gun out, and if you're lucky enough to get your gun out and control it then I think you might have a chance.

I see what you are saying and I'm not talking about blowing someone away for walking up to me with their hand in their pocket, maybe they are cold. A responsible gun owner understands you raise your defense to the level of the threat, ask a cop. You put up your fists, he grabs a club or tazer, you pull a knife, he pulls a gun, you move in, you get an increase of lead in your diet. Personal responsibility, the only way I'd pull a gun out in the first place would be as a last resort, and If I did pull it, bet your rear I will be pulling it to kill in defense. Never point a weapon at something you aren't ready to destroy, hesitation will get you killed. Back to my question though do you agree when you are laying on the ground wounded the best line of defense would be a firearm? YES OR NO?

[TonyDownTheShore]

It depends on the situation, and no my daughter doesn't carry, but they know how to use one, and they are available if someone broke into my house, they'd for one see all the dead animals on the wall and say OH @#% a gun lives here, most would exit as quickly and quietly as possible as they'd know bullets would be flying shortly. What makes you think you wouldn't get a shot off? It usually takes more then one shot by the way, unless it's a head shot, bread basket hit, or an exceptionally large caliber with lots of knock down power, which is not normally a gun used in violent crimes, you'd still have time to pop one into the perp, even wounded and on the ground you are still a deadly force capable of protecting yourself. Unlike having your skull caved in from a bat or your throat slit from a blade. So who are you kidding?

You never answered my question about laying on the ground watching someone you cared about getting beaten to death, would you want a gun then? YES or NO? Easy question. If not there is no hope for you and I feel for anyone who has you as a protector in a dangerous situation, nothing personal.

My answer is I would fight till I died before I see somebody beating my family, I wouldn't be laying on the ground unless I was dead. I'm not trying to brag but I have fought people with baseball bat and a knife and not a scrach on me, I have never faced anybody with a gun though so I don't know what I would do and neither would you.

[dog53]

So does your wife and your daughter carry a gun too? and if you were facing a guy with a gun by the time you reached for your gun you'd be shot, who are you kidding?

Well god forbid it ever happens to you tony but if it does you have my condolences.

The proverbial brick wall

[DiveDeepSix]

I agree DiveDeepSix... but imo the objective is to eliminate the "soft targets" like schools, church's, etc... by placing at least one or two gun carriers at each of those sites. Read the post on "Defenseless Schools" ( ) and it's easy to see why these are magnets for these type of "terrorist's". You never see these cowards storm a police station...why??? ......they might get shot!!! Instead they go for the easy targets. Make each target less of a push over and they will be less likely to make such big statements (so to speak) unless they are highly trained... which imo reduces the number of threats significantly.

I agree 100% buddy, soft targets for sure. My wife and sister were just talking on facebook about a school meeting for donations and volunteers to take turns watching the doors and helping with security at our schools.

[Bumper64]

I agree DiveDeepSix... but imo the objective is to eliminate the "soft targets" like schools, church's, etc... by placing at least one or two gun carriers at each of those sites. Read the post on "Defenseless Schools" ( http://dinarvets.com...entry1078291) and it's easy to see why these are magnets for these type of "terrorist's". You never see these cowards storm a police station...why??? ......they might get shot!!! Instead they go for the easy targets. Make each target less of a push over and they will be less likely to make such big statements (so to speak) unless they are highly trained... which imo reduces the number of threats significantly.

I agree, You don't see these idiots running into the Police station trying to commit mass murder and why is that?? THE POLICE ARE ARMED!!!!!

[desimo]

In the list of countries that have gun bans I notice that they are the ones also who ususally have mass bombings. I think I would prefer to take my chances with a gun. I believe that tony means well but I must highly disagree with a high portion of what he says. I have seen the results after someone who is experiences with a knife starts cutting. Someone good with a knife can go from 20 feet away to having you look like the Thanksgiving bird in a matter of seconds. I've worked around the gangs and know that they will not come after you one at a time, they are like a swarm and attack in a crowd. All you can hope for is to shoot first. I respect the pictures of the kids but personally see no reason to post it except for prayers for their families. Guns did not take their lives, a nutjob did. His tool was a gun. But just like with those countries that ban guns the nutjobs still have guns. Japan has their mafia. Germany has theirs and all the countries have their terrorists. They all have guns in those countries. It is just the legal people who do not have a gun. I collect guns. I am a retired shrink and a former pastor. I like the works of Dietrick Bonnheffor who was a clergy but during WWII could not accept the safety of the clergy while his brothers were dying at the hands of the Nazis. He later was hung in a German death camp after being involved in a plot to assissinate Hitler. He held that a person could assissinate Hitler in the name of God and be justified. He held that we have a primary responsibility to each other. We cannot be safe when others are at risk. We have a duty to protect each other. One big reason why I carry when I am out is because is someone whats to shoot my wife or the place that I am at I have a responsibility to my fellow citizens to do MY job and try and protect them. I will shoot back if I am given half a chance. That is my responsibility. I would not be doing too good of a job if all I could do would be to throw a salt shaker at the terrorists.

[DiveDeepSix]

My answer is I would fight till I died before I see somebody beating my family, I wouldn't be laying on the ground unless I was dead. I'm not trying to brag but I have fought people with baseball bat and a knife and not a scrach on me, I have never faced anybody with a gun though so I don't know what I would do and neither would you.

I'm not doubting your dedication to your family Tony, and I'm sure you would fight very bravely but you would also die very quickly, something a gun could have prevented. I don't consider it you bragging either, I'm glad you can defend yourself. But what if it would have been your wife? Would she be better off hoping for a lucky shot on a bat wielding thug or pulling an equalizer out of her shoulder holster and feeding some loser a mushroom? I have looked down the wrong end of gun barrels before, it's not good, obviously I'm still here unless it's my ghost typing this. If someone pulls a weapon you must understand they intend to harm or kill you, if you have to defend yourself and they die, it was their own fault. Personal responsibility. The old saying I'd rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6 is something anyone with a family has to live by if it comes to protecting them.

[dontlop]

So does your wife and your daughter carry a gun too? and if you were facing a guy with a gun by the time you reached for your gun you'd be shot, who are you kidding?

i was in houston texas awhile back .. i had been drinking at a bar .. and alone walking down main street around 3 a.m. .. three people mid twebties . thug loking guys eyeing me as i was approaching them walking .. it didnt look good for me ..tinking and using the texas concieled law to my advantage was ,, make eye contact .. make sure they saw me doing so ... and while they gazed at their target .. i smiled and put both my hands inside my leather jacket side pockets ,, and smiled .. all three of them got this dumb look on their face .. . they had second thoughts of any provacation.... it was just that law that protected me .. see they had no idea if my finger was on my trigger of my gun .... they all .. all three of them took a step or two backwards as i walked past them ..thank god for the concieled weapons laws of texas .. they never know ....but if they knew i wasnt armed because its the law .. where would that of left me ..

these nuts attack at places where they know no one is armed .. .. like i said before . you wont see them attacking a police station where they are heavily armed.. if you want to braod cast that you are not armed .. be my guest .. set an example .. go out and walk around wearing tee shirts .. saying you dont carry any protection for self defense .

i stand with our laws .. and will not give in to some one who uses guns to defend themselves when they come for mine..

[TonyDownTheShore]

Well god forbid it ever happens to you tony but if it does you have my condolences.

The proverbial brick wall

Talk is cheap God forbid it ever happens to you too, if you were walking down the street and somebody aproached you with a gun pointed at you, you would do nothing unless you wanted to die, you and I can sit here all day and argue back and forth but until you or I are in that situation we don't know what we would do, plain and simple.

[DiveDeepSix]

In the list of countries that have gun bans I notice that they are the ones also who ususally have mass bombings. I think I would prefer to take my chances with a gun. I believe that tony means well but I must highly disagree with a high portion of what he says. I have seen the results after someone who is experiences with a knife starts cutting. Someone good with a knife can go from 20 feet away to having you look like the Thanksgiving bird in a matter of seconds. I've worked around the gangs and know that they will not come after you one at a time, they are like a swarm and attack in a crowd. All you can hope for is to shoot first. I respect the pictures of the kids but personally see no reason to post it except for prayers for their families. Guns did not take their lives, a nutjob did. His tool was a gun. But just like with those countries that ban guns the nutjobs still have guns. Japan has their mafia. Germany has theirs and all the countries have their terrorists. They all have guns in those countries. It is just the legal people who do not have a gun. I collect guns. I am a retired shrink and a former pastor. I like the works of Dietrick Bonnheffor who was a clergy but during WWII could not accept the safety of the clergy while his brothers were dying at the hands of the Nazis. He later was hung in a German death camp after being involved in a plot to assissinate Hitler. He held that a person could assissinate Hitler in the name of God and be justified. He held that we have a primary responsibility to each other. We cannot be safe when others are at risk. We have a duty to protect each other. One big reason why I carry when I am out is because is someone whats to shoot my wife or the place that I am at I have a responsibility to my fellow citizens to do MY job and try and protect them. I will shoot back if I am given half a chance. That is my responsibility. I would not be doing too good of a job if all I could do would be to throw a salt shaker at the terrorists.

Well said, great post! :twothumbs:/>/> You are right about the gang bangers too, even a warning shot from a would be victim, takes the fun away and sends them scattering like spineless roaches. Aren't guns banned in Mexico as well? Yet it's one of the most violent places you could be lately, because the gangs have them and the citizens don't.

Tony let me ask a similar question but in a different way, if I were witnessing you and your family getting beaten by thugs would you want me to step in with my gun and help you? I would regardless if you wanted me to or not, personal responsibility.

Edited December 16, 2012 by DiveDeepSix

[dog53]

My answer is I would fight till I died before I see somebody beating my family, I wouldn't be laying on the ground unless I was dead. I'm not trying to brag but I have fought people with baseball bat and a knife and not a scrach on me, I have never faced anybody with a gun though so I don't know what I would do and neither would you.

You got lucky Tony I have been lucky before too and I have also not been lucky. So next time your not lucky and like you say your laying on the ground dead. Well what about your family then man. Really you seem like a logical fella so dont say it cant happen. Anyway if your not going to carry a gun I would suggest you get one of these. Next best thing they will also die for your family. Meet my uncle Louie

[DiveDeepSix]

Gotta bolt for a bit gang, really appreciate the responses, great ideas from a great crowd.

[TonyDownTheShore]

i was in houston texas awhile back .. i had been drinking at a bar .. and alone walking down main street around 3 a.m. .. three people mid twebties . thug loking guys eyeing me as i was approaching them walking .. it didnt look good for me ..tinking and using the texas concieled law to my advantage was ,, make eye contact .. make sure they saw me doing so ... and while they gazed at their target .. i smiled and put both my hands inside my leather jacket side pockets ,, and smiled .. all three of them got this dumb look on their face .. . they had second thoughts of any provacation.... it was just that law that protected me .. see they had no idea if my finger was on my trigger of my gun .... they all .. all three of them took a step or two backwards as i walked past them ..thank god for the concieled weapons laws of texas .. they never know ....but if they knew i wasnt armed because its the law .. where would that of left me ..

these nuts attack at places where they know no one is armed .. .. like i said before . you wont see them attacking a police station where they are heavily armed.. if you want to braod cast that you are not armed .. be my guest .. set an example .. go out and walk around wearing tee shirts .. saying you dont carry any protection for self defense .

i stand with our laws .. and will not give in to some one who uses guns to defend themselves when they come for mine..

I'm sure that by having a gun empowered you to stare them down and they backed off which worked in your favor and I'm glad it did, but what if all three of them had guns too, it would've been ugly right?

[dontlop]

tell us al what you would do in a case like this .. unarmed ...?

reginald denny ... la riots ..

tony this is for you

[DiveDeepSix]

You got lucky Tony I have been lucky before too and I have also not been lucky. So next time your not lucky and like you say your laying on the ground dead. Well what about your family then man. Really you seem like a logical fella so dont say it cant happen. Anyway if your not going to carry a gun I would suggest you get one of these. Next best thing they will also die for your family. Meet my uncle Louie

ROFLMAO, He has your eyes buddy!! :lol:

[dontlop]

I'm sure that by having a gun empowered you to stare them down and they backed off which worked in your favor and I'm glad it did, but what if all three of them had guns too, it would've been ugly right?

i had no gun ..thats the point . the concield laws work .. they dont know whos armed and who isnt .. crimne fell 85% in texas after that law was passed ..

[TonyDownTheShore]

You got lucky Tony I have been lucky before too and I have also not been lucky. So next time your not lucky and like you say your laying on the ground dead. Well what about your family then man. Really you seem like a logical fella so dont say it cant happen. Anyway if your not going to carry a gun I would suggest you get one of these. Next best thing they will also die for your family. Meet my uncle Louie

Haha, a dog? Well my friend my weapon of choice is my faith in God and that's the best protection one can have. :)src="http://dinarvets.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif">

[dog53]

Talk is cheap God forbid it ever happens to you too, if you were walking down the street and somebody aproached you with a gun pointed at you, you would do nothing unless you wanted to die, you and I can sit here all day and argue back and forth but until you or I are in that situation we don't know what we would do, plain and simple.

been there done that tony. I HAVE seen the elephant baby and he`s big Tony really big

[TonyDownTheShore]

i had no gun ..thats the point . the concield laws work .. they dont know whos armed and who isnt .. crimne fell 85% in texas after that law was passed ..

Haha then you're crazy and smart at the same time not to say lucky. It would've been funny if you pulled a gum instead of a gun. :lol:src="http://dinarvets.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif">

Edited December 16, 2012 by TonyDownTheShore

[dontlop]

Haha, a dog? Well my friend my weapon of choice is my faith in God and that's the best protection one can have. :)src="http://dinarvets.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif">

are you saying all these people getting murderd by these killers .. is because they had no faith in god ?

[umbertino]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Brazil

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder

http://www.ryerson.ca/SAFER-Net/regions/Americas/Bra_FY03.html

http://crookedtimber.org/2012/07/20/america-is-a-violent-country/

http://www.juancole.com/2011/01/over-9000-murders-by-gun-in-us-39-in-uk.html

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/brazil

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/japan/100304/murder-japan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Japan

http://www.davekopel.com/2A/Foreign/Japan-Gun-Control-and-People-Control.htm

Edited December 16, 2012 by umbertino