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Good day Adam. While having lunch with friends invested (speculating) with the dinar currency, one of them stated that the RV was only going to be for large groups of investors. The general public, the individual with dinar, would never see the RV. I know this has been tossed around, answered, and debunked, but this individual was convinced that this is what will happen. Can you, one more time, give us your insight on the matter? (Thought someone else was going to ask, but I didn't see this question.)

Can't buy me love, love Can't buy me love I'll buy you a diamond ring my friend If it makes you feel all right I'll get you anything my friend If it makes you feel all right Cause I don't care too much for money For money can't buy me love I'll give you all I've got to give If you say you love me too I may not have a lot to give But what I've got I'll give to you I don't care too much for money For money can't buy me love Can't buy me love Everybody tells me so Can't buy me love No, no, no, no Say you don't need no diamond ring And I'll be satisfied Tell me that you want those kind of things That money just can't buy I don't care too much for money For money can't buy me love Can't buy me love Everybody tells me so Can't buy me love No, no, no, no Say you don't need no diamond ring And I'll be satisfied Tell me that you want those kind of things That money just can't buy I don't care too much for money Cause money can't buy me love Oh, can't buy me love, love Can't buy me love, no

Thanks for the discussion and the enlightenment from the book. I plan to purchase a copy today. Understanding the problem is the first step; defining the solution is rational and necessary. But the implementation and action necessary is imperative for rectifying our dilemma. For one thing there is a massive wall of resistance formed by apathy, ignorance of their enslavement, dependance on the government, and the hunger for power of those in control. Does the book offer solutions or is it just a "wake up" call?

The corruption of individuals in the government is alway "termites in the foundation," which must be eradicated. That's why we have the constitutional powers to remove them. The Constitution is not the problem. Freedom is not the problem. Laws are not the problem. But many of those who are corrupt ARE the problem. In the USA the Constitution can be the basis of a freedom that unlike anything other nations have as their foundation. The "original intention" is still valid when administered properly by the power we elect (or appoint). And we do need to do something about those in power.

My apologies to Ron for again taken space in this thread for posting these controversial, but important discussions. Thank you for answering Fly. It is always helpful to know where someone is in their “belief system” when discussing the Scripture. It might help you to know where I am in my belief as well. I am a Christian by new birth and a saint by calling of Jesus Christ. I do not hold to any denominational allegiances. Therefore I am not a Protestant or Catholic, but only a child of God. I hold to the Scripture as being from God through the Holy Spirit but written down and spoken by men. Thus I hold to the Bible, the Scriptures, as the word of God to mankind and the basis of authority in all things. When a teaching or belief is held by me or held by others those beliefs are put into the crucible to be tested and confirmed by the Bible. I do not receive “special knowledge” from the Spirit, which is not found in the Bible. Nor does God give me special revelation that tells me if what I understand is correct or not, that comes from my study and God speaking to me from what He has said in His word. I believe and teach that the books of the Bible were completed by the end of the first century, and that many of the manuscripts or texts (books and letters) were being circulated by the disciples in the first century. However, the complete collection was not assembled until the 2nd century. I belief and understand that we have a Greek text that is 99% of that given by God. (We may still find additional material written by inspired men, but IF those texts still exist, they will not contradict or change what we have today.) I use the as many translations as necessary to get a proper understanding of the text. I first do my own translation of the Greek text to make sure that I am familiar with the construction of the text I am using. My translation of choice is the New American Standard Version, which used the 23rd edition of the Nestle Greek NT, for the most part. The basis for this discussion is the challenge that you have made to the deity of Jesus Christ. My challenge to you is that God did come into this world and that the Christ, the Anointed, in the form of a man, Jesus. That the biblical texts declare that the early disciples and apostles believed that Jesus was God come in the flesh of man and that His subjection and limitation while on earth was a willing subjection in order to redeem mankind from sin and death. The belief that Jesus is God is fundamental to basic Christianity and salvation. It was not something that was decided by theologians in later centuries but was believed by the early disciples during the first century and taught by them in their writings of Holy Scripture. Until this point is understood or believed, it will do no good in discussion other points of biblical teaching. This discussion will not be a slam fest or name calling period. All points must be substantiated and proven with biblical texts. When text are use that exclude words not in the original Greek, or included words not in the original Greek, then the user of those texts must give reasons for their inclusion or exclusion. Fly, if you are willing to enter into the discussion, I will be more that happy to accommodate.

Peace, you do understand that the sub-points under the meaning are related and supportive of the initial meaning? In other words "a self-governing state" does not mean that "everyone" rules themselves. It means that America has the right of "ruling itself" with laws, regulations, governing principles that are established by America legislative bodies. It has nothing to do with being able to do what you want, whenever you want, wherever you want, etc. It means that we are free but with rules to govern our freedoms. Is complicated, hard work, and comprehensive, because it takes into consideration that my rights don't interfere with your rights and visa-versa.

Have a great and blessed trip. Have not been to Moscow and would like to go before I leave this world.

You can't have an open boarder policy. There would be a rush to come into America by immigrants from all over the world! So much so that the government payouts to them would be so much that it would collapse the government within months. It can't and won't happen. Anyone who has ever traveled to another country knows full well how difficult it is to just visit the country. There is so much paperwork that it is downright discouraging. For someone wanting to migrate to any country in the world, to live there and work there, is extremely difficult. If you tried to visit the country and then not return to America, forget it. They would be on you like bees to a watermelon! You would be put in jail, fined, and then deported; and that's the lucky ones. Look what happened to the Marine who made a wrong turn and ended up in Mexico and consider what they did to him. Truth is, we have the most liberal immigration policy in the world. People cross the boarder illegally because they cannot enter legally due to money, fear, or things in their past that would prevent them from entering legally. Yes, many, many people cross the boarder illegally because they are told that is the only way they can make it over. The cartels that run the system charge thousands of dollars to get them into this country (alive or dead, it makes no difference to these murderous coyotes! They have no care or kindness for their cargo (illegals). Yes, there are thousands in this country who are illegals. I attend church with many of them. They are hard working, kind, generous people who are now waiting for a policy by the USA that will help them become legal. Some have been here for years. Great and wonderful people whom I love. However, they will be the first to tell you that many coming to this country are thugs, part of gangs in Central America who are expanding their territory to the USA. They extort money from others who are Hispanic, intimate, the local area residents, rape, kill, and destroy at their leisure. To say these thugs have a "right" to do what they want, to cross the boarder any time they want, to go unpunished is not understanding the problems that exist. It would be nice to have an "open boarder" policy, but that cannot exist in the world that we live in. WE NEED A STRONG BOARDER POLICY AND WE DO NOT HAVE ONE!! The "wall" might help, but only slightly. The "wall" needs to be built of guard and patrols from the United States AND Mexico.

Politicians will never change their mind on anything, but they will on everything else.

No one knows what is happening with Iraq. Even if they did we would still get articles like this. Double-speak can be spoken in all languages.

Hi Ron. I know what you are saying. However, I would like you to consider a couple of things regarding this subject. It may seem like I am "knit picking" with the discussion, but after I had this all unraveled and delineated some of the terms used regarding the Spirit, here is what I found. 1. The "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" is not found in the text of the Bible. It is always "baptism with/in the Holy Spirit." That is consistent throughout the NT. 2. The "indwelling of the Holy Spirit" is the Spirit coming to live within the believer. As such He is the seal of our redemption and the giver of the power to live the Christian life. The "baptism with the Spirit" on Pentecost made the indwelling a reality for the saints. It happened only one time in the history of mankind. The "power from the Spirit" and "filling of the Spirit" happened many times before and after Pentecost, but these are not connected with the "Promise of the Father" or "Baptism with the Holy Spirit." 3. The "filling with the Spirit" is a term that means that one is influenced by the Spirit supernaturally and miraculously. However, the "filling with the Spirit" took place even before the Spirit was given to indwell. Thus, individuals could be filled with the Spirit even during the OT period. Ie. Bezalel (Ex. 31:1-5), and even during the time of Christ (Lk 1:41, 67). Then of course there are the "fillings of the Spirit" after the "pouring out of the Spirit" at Pentecost. 4. The Spirit "fell upon" or "came upon" a person is much like the "filling." It is the Spirit giving power or influencing someone to do what the Spirit wanted them to do. Thus the Spirit "came upon" or "fell upon" Ezekiel (Ezk. 11:5). This is what happened at the household of Cornelius, the first Gentile converts (Acts 10:44). They, the Gentiles, received the "Baptism with the Spirit" at Pentecost, or the Promise of the Father was made available to them at that moment. When Peter preached to them, the Spirit gave them the gift of tongues and prophecy to convince these Jewish Christians that the Spirit (indwelling) was for the Gentile as well as the Jews. ("because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles also." - Perfect, indicative, passive verb, meaning that the Spirit "had been poured out," a completely action at one point in the past, upon the Gentiles.) That one point in the past was Pentecost, and the Jewish brethren that were there are being reminded of that event. Therefore, Peter ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. It was at that point that they received the "promise" (Act 2:38; 5:32; Gal 3:14). 5. The 1Cor 12:1-13 and Romans 14 are good companion passages that speak of the miraculous and non-miraculous [supernatural] gifts from the Spirit of God. These gifts do not come by a "baptism in the Spirit," but by the Spirits gifting individuals just as He wills (1Cor 12:4-7). The gifts are for the common good of the body of Christ. Being "led by the Spirit" is the continuing process of "walking by the Spirit" of Christ. 6. Jno 14:10-20 speaks of the disciples receiving the Spirit to indwell them as a representative of the Godhead. At the same time it is Christ's Spirit who is come to dwell within them. Powerful passage that depicts the potential of the saints when we allow God to work within and through us. 7. The experience of a "filling with the Spirit" is not a "second blessing" but a continued blessing that the Christian can receive again and again as they yield themselves to walking after the Spirit. I am "filled with the Spirit" every time I start praising God and glorifying His name, or when I serve Him in some capacity as the Spirit directs. Personally, I don't see how a saint can function without their life being "filled" every day. I pray that for your life. Just some things for you to consider. We are quick on the trigger tonight! LOL. I like your response Ron. It is great. I think we are paralleling each other.

It does sound a little confusing. The human being is made up of body [joint and marrow], soul, and spirit (Heb 4:12). Every individual has this from the beginning of life. But the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God or Christ. The Spirit of God only comes to dwell in an individual when they experience the new birth where Jesus says that we must be born of water and the Spirit (Jno 3:3-5). At the moment of new birth is the time the Holy Spirit comes to indwell. No one can receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit unless they have faith (no longer in unbelief), have repented, and have received remission of sin. As Paul wrote to Titus, “He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration (forgiveness) and renewing (new birth) by the Holy Spirit (indwelling), whom He poured out upon us (at Pentecost) richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that being justified by His grace (cross) we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life” (*** 3:5-7). Acts 5:32 states, “And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him.” The question is two fold: When did God give the Holy Spirit? The phrase “has given” is past tense and indicates that the Spirit was in the past given. To whom did He give the Spirit? Those who obey. The Spirit is given not to just a few, but to all who obey. That means you and me. No one coming to Christ through the “obedience of faith” will be excluded (Rm 1:5; 16:26). To the Thessalonians Paul wrote a rebuke for the impure lives they were living. He then calls them back to a sanctified and holy walk. The motivating challenge for obedience centers on their accepting or rejecting of the One who placed holiness within them. “He who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.” (1Thess 4:1-8, esp v. 8). Timothy was to “Guard through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, the treasure which has been entrusted to you” (2Tim 1:14). Paul had just been encouraging Timothy to not be ashamed of the gospel of Christ. It was this gospel that had been entrusted to Timothy. It is the Spirit who dwells in Timothy, who gives him the power to guard the word. The Spirit “dwells” within the individual. John gives an explicit reason by which the child of God can know that God is in him. It is the indwelling of the Spirit. “And the one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And we know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit which He has given us” (1Jn 3:24). In another passage in the same letter John writes, “By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit” (1Jn 4:13). How do I know the Spirit dwells within me? The same way that I know anything about he Spirit, or Christ, or the forgiveness of sins, and a thousand other questions presented to me. Through faith in what God has revealed to me through the Word of God, the Bible.

Good afternoon (at least my time), Peace. Since this is Ron's thread you might want to address the questions to him. I know he would probably have a good and sufficient answer. However, since I am on the thread now I will give a short answer. The Galatian problem stems mainly from a group within the church who were trying to be justified by their deeds of keeping the Law of Moses instead of trusting in Christ Jesus. Their salvation was based in their doing rather that what Christ did. The Law was a tutor that prophesied of the Messiah to come, Jesus. It could not make the individual free from sin (unbelief). The "promise to Abraham" was a covenant before the Law of Moses that in "his seed" all the people of the earth were to be blessed (that is to received the Holy Spirit). The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the seal that one is a child of God and gives the Christian the power to live a life of faith. The Law of Moses or any law system cannot give the Holy Spirit to indwell. It was only Christ Jesus who could give the Spirit. He gave the Spirit on the Day of Pentecost when He (Christ) "poured out the Spirit" for mankind. This was the only time the Spirit was "poured out" or "baptized with the Holy Spirit (Acts 2). The Spirit then would be received when an individual believed, repented of sin, and was baptized into Christ (2:38-39). This was the act of faith (Gal 3:14). One did not need to "do the works of the Law" or do the works of any system of law to receive forgiveness and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, He came to indwell by that faith. Once the Spirit indwells the individual, that person will want to do the things give by the Spirit for us to do: bear the fruit, walk after Him, and live a life of faith. No one can do that unless they have the Holy Spirit. What "laws govern the spirit, if moses laws aren't the highest authority?" is the question you ask. I am assuming that you are speaking of the human spirit rather than the Holy Spirit. We are made up of body and spirit (soul) but our human spirit is powerless against the forces of darkness. When we receive the Holy Spirit to indwell us, it is the Spirit working with our spirit in order to shape us into the image of Christ, the Lord (2Cor 3:17-18). The Christian follows the basic principles of holy living given by God that are common to both Old and New Testaments; primarily the teaching of the New Covenant. But the New Covenant, nor the Old Covenant form the basis of "rules and regulations" to produce salvation or life, that only comes through faith in Jesus as Lord and God. Romans 8 is an excellent read to comprehend the beginning of the Christian walk.

I agree with you, but I wanted Fly to tell me that. I appreciate all the good words. The passage in Titus 2 is a favorite text (in many ways). As "proof" for Christ's Deity is one of the reasons. The attacks on the Christian faith are directed toward two basic elements: The Inspiration, Revelation and Authority of Scripture; the Deity of Christ. Remove those two things and faith has no foundation. Thus, the attack on Jesus' Deity is a serious challenge to faith. There are more "challenges," but these are foundational elements that cannot be ignored. Praying for you brother.

You need to reread your post. These 17 points are taken from what you have written. If they are not your words, then you need to explain your points so that wrong conclusions are not drawn from them. But from what you said in the post, these 17 points are what you indicated as your belief (or rather your unbelief). By the way, as a matter of interest to those who are reading these posts, since you have difficulty with a number of the other translations, what translation of the Bible do you normally use?

My apologies to Ron for "highjacking" this thread. This article was excellent and I should not have responded to Fly. My response was reactive since it was a challenge to the deity Jesus Christ, our LORD. Therefore, I will start another post with additional information concern Christ and Fly or others can join in the discussion. My sincere apologies sir.

I have been away all day today and just not had time to get back to see the “news” of the DV group. I will also be away from the computer (except for a short time just before bedtime) all day tomorrow. Therefore it is difficult to give an answer to the many errors that Fly has written in his post. One thing is definite: this post is filled with a denial that Jesus Christ is LORD even while in the flesh as man. It seems like every time that Christ is mentioned as being God, that the unbeliever is ready to cast doubt on His deity. That is not a strange thing. It has happened from often over the course of history. It is totally “unbelievable” that God would become a man in order to save mankind from sin, and death. It is amazing to me when someone places himself as a teacher of the word of God, a scholar, and student of truth that there is a total lack of understanding for the basics of faith: Jesus Christ, the LORD (Jehovah). It is sad and yet the height of arrogance when one takes it upon himself to prove that Jesus is not God. The flagrant and abusive misuse of Scripture is evident from the conclusions drawn from the above post. What is clearly said by Fly is not something new. It is what his human, man directed theology, to which he subscribes, teaches. It is plain and simple heresy. He is teaching in his post: 1. The LORD, Jehovah, Jesus Christ is not eternal. 2. The LORD, Jesus Christ is not God in any way shape, form, or fashion. 3. Christ, or Jehovah was created by Jehovah, and therefore is a lesser god. 4. Jesus Christ is not one with the Godhead, or one with God. 5. That Jehovah is God and that there is no other God; Meaning that Jesus cannot be God. 6. Jesus Christ is a created spirit being just like the angels; therefore he could not be God, Jehovah. 7. Christ, the Word, was created to be a master craftsman to work for God. 8. Christ is Jehovah’s junior partner; therefore He can not be God. 9. Christ, the LORD is not part of the Godhead. 10. Jesus was not God come in the flesh. 11. Jesus was a perfect human, but only a human and not God. 12. If Jesus is God He could not offer sacrifice for sin because it would be too much. 13. Jesus is not the “only begotten” God, he is only one of the many “sons of God.” 14. Because Jesus was “begotten” by God, Jesus is “junior,” or lacking in the same position, power, and knowledge of God, and is not eternal. 15. No one in the first century thought of Jesus as the unique “Son of God” or Deity. 16. God alone is Jehovah God and Almighty, Jesus is not 17. Jesus is not coequal with God in power or eternity. How many ways does a person have to declare his unbelief? Well, here are a number of times he has rejected faith in Jesus Christ. There are things stressed by Fly in his post that indicate that he hasn’t the slightest clue about the redemptive nature of Jesus Christ and why Christ, as God came to this earth in the form of man. His lack of understanding of the incarnation (God becoming man) has cause him to not understand the temptations, Jesus’ subornation to God while in the flesh, and the sacrifice necessary to redeem mankind from sin. But this is typical when one rejects the deity of Jesus Christ. I had ask him several questions in an earlier post concerning the nature of Christ Jesus, the LORD. He did not answer then, but he has now. It is plainly evident that Fly is not a true believer in Christ. His human theology has taken him away from God and down a path of unbelief.

Excellent! Thanks.

THE most important point in salvation. God gave Himself in order to redeem us from sin and death. A person's acceptance of this fact means eternal life. A person's rejection of this fact means that that person has condemned themselves to an eternity of hell. An individual declares the destination depending on what they believe about Jesus Christ.

Thus illustrating the eloquence of how to "rope a dope." Give her "enough rope and she'll hang herself." But really I think she is at the "end of her rope."

Well worth the read, Ron. However, for most folks the idea of personal "revenge" is so ingrained in us that we equate reprisal with spiritual maturity, of not letting someone walk all over you. Such an attitude can stay with a person for years as they wait for a time of retaliation. All the wile the bitterness grows and its roots choke out in semblance of forgiveness and "kindly forgetting" our being wronged. Just think what this attitude of allowing God to do the "revenging" thing and we just continued on in our life to show mercy and forgetfulness of being wronged. How would it affect our business, marriage, politics, and family relationships? How would it change our relationship with members of body of Christ? Or, how would it change our relationship with even our enemies? We would be a different people, especially different as Christians. With the help of the Holy Spirit we might start looking more like Christ.

Very appropriate for this time in our history. Thanks.

Ron, thanks for the good word. Truly God is filled with joy and happiness concerning His Kingdom. Certainly there was great displeasure and remorse when those of His creation begin to forget Him or want anything at all to do with Him, but He is overjoyed at those who have experienced the "new birth" and can now "see the Kingdom" and all the blessings awaiting those who are His "new creations." There is great joy in Heaven over all those who come to repentance (Lk 15:7, 10). And as Paul said in Romans, the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Jesus pleased the Father when He completed His work of redemption, and we please God when we obey Him. So in all respects when we get to our final destination, heaven, we will experience God's approval and joy. It will be a great time of rejoicing!!

That is quite remarkable. Every part of this project had to be handmade. The number of hours put in must be incredible! Thanks for sharing.

Jim, thank you for responding to my post. When addressing someone who does not believe I take a more tactful approach. When addressing someone I think is a believer and teach I become more pointed and forceful in my questions and comments. Whether you wanted it or not your post to 8th ID was presented as a challenge to his position and belief, which was a opening folly in debate. Debate or rather a friendly discussion with those who do not hold the same theological position is not disrespectful but honoring the person. Knowledge is advanced (one would hope) and God is glorified. Peter wrote to be ready to give an answer to all those who ask a reason for the hope one has. Thus, we must be ready to discuss eternal and spiritual positions. Concerning what you wrote, yes, it is my biblical position that there is an eternal punishment by a Holy God for those who choose to walk in unbelief and disobedience to Him. Such a position is not new, but is taught throughout the Bible. It is base on His Holiness. No thinking Christian would doubt that the death of Christ on the cross was and is essential for mankind’s salvation. It is part of ones understand of salvation history. But why was it necessary? What is the driving force behind the predestinated and the uniquely executed of plan to redeem the world through the blood of Christ? For many years Christians have rightly taught that the death of Christ on the cross was essential for mankind’s salvation. The cross is the greatest event in the history of salvation. As the cross is the victory over sin, so the resurrection is the triumph over all the cruelty and barbarianism of humanity. The death of Christ is the essential element in Christianity. Other religions base their claim to recognition on the teaching of their founders. Christianity is distinguished from all of them by the importance it assigns to the death and resurrection of the Lord. Take away the death and resurrection and you reduce Christianity to the level of a great moral and ethical religion, but one that cannot claim to be redemptive. It is at the cross that the sins of the world were borne by the Innocent Jesus Christ in order that the guilty might not suffer God’s wrath. But why is wrath and punishment necessary? To answer that question we must consider the holiness of God. R. C. Sproul makes this insightful observation from Isaiah 6: “The Bible says that God is holy, holy, holy. Not that He is merely holy, or even holy, holy. He is holy, holy, holy. The Bible never says that God is love, love, love, or mercy, mercy, mercy, or wrath, wrath, wrath, or justice, justice, justice. It does say that He is holy, holy, holy, the whole earth is full of His glory.”2 Samuel 6:2) which was to be hidden in the holiest place in the tabernacle, the “holy of holies.” According to God’s instructions, it was to be transported by the Kohathites who carried it by holding onto poles inserted through its attached rings (see Exodus 25:10-22; Numbers 4:1-20). No one was to look into the ark, or they would die. The day the ark was transported to Jerusalem was a great and happy moment. But they had forgotten how holy this ark was, because it was the place where God’s presence was to abide. Rather than transporting the ark as instructed in the law, the ark was placed on a new ox cart. It was a most jubilant procession as the ark made its way home. What a happy time. But when the oxen stumbled, and it looked as though the cart might be overturned and hurled to the ground, Uzzah reached out to steady the ark. Instantly, he was struck dead by God. David’s first response was frustration and anger with God. Why had God been so harsh with Uzzah? David seems to have forgotten God’s instructions in the Law about how the ark was to be transported. He also seems to have forgotten how many had previously died when due reverence for the presence of God associated with the ark was not shown. God had spoiled their celebration, and David was miffed. Only upon reflection did David realize the gravity of the error. And concerning Uzzah, God struck him dead because of his irreverence (2 Samuel 6:7). Irreverence is a dangerous malady. Even when our motives are sincere and we are actively involved in the worship of God, we must constantly be mindful of the holiness of God and maintain a reverence for Him manifested by our obedience to His instructions and commands. Isaiah and the Holiness of God (Isaiah 6:1-10) The death of Uzziah seems to have spelled the end of an era, a golden era, for Judah. The “good times” were over; the “hard times” were about to commence as verses 9 and 10 indicate. Isaiah’s ministry is commencing from a human point of view at the very worst possible time. His ministry was not going to be regarded a success (as if many of the prophets of old were successful). He was in for a chilly reception. He and his message would be spurned. What did Isaiah need to give him the proper perspective and endurance to persevere in such hard times? The answer: a vision of the holiness of God! This is precisely what God gave to Isaiah—a dramatic revelation of His holiness. “Holy, Holy, Holy, is the LORD of hosts, the whole earth is full of His glory” (verse 3). The earth quaked, and the temple was filled with smoke. It was as dramatic a vision of God and His holiness as one could wish to see. Isaiah’s response is far from what we hear today from many who claim to teach biblical truth. He was not impressed with his “significance.” His “self-esteem” was not enhanced. Just the opposite took place. His vision of the holiness of God caused Isaiah to lament his utter sinfulness. If God was holy, Isaiah saw he was not. Isaiah confessed his own sinfulness and that of his people. Paul’s reverence for the word of God is similar to that of Isaiah – Gal. 1:6-8. John’s vision in Rev 1, when He sees the glory of God, that holiness underscores what he writes in Rev 22:18-19. Isaiah was to serve as a prophet in a day when his message would be rejected and resisted. The sinful disposition of man is to avoid pain and persecution, and thus alter, if possible, the message and method of communicating the message of Christ so men will respond more favorably. At the outset of Isaiah’s ministry, God manifested His holiness to Isaiah to motivate him to be faithful to his calling and to the message he was to be given. Isaiah never lost the vision of whom he served and whom he must both fear and please. The Holiness of God and the Church (Acts 5:1-16; 1 Corinthians 5:1-13; 11:17-34) The establishment of the kingdom of God, the church, did not diminish the need for holiness. God expects the church to be holy. “Be holy! For I am holy!” We should learn three important things from the holiness of God. In virtue of God’s holiness He has instituted a moral law for the world. These laws have sanctions attached. In virtue of His holiness He executes His laws, involving the bestowal of rewards and punishments. What does this mean for mankind? Will God, because He is holy and just, allow or direct His wrath toward man? Since God must be in complete harmony with His justice, then certainly we will be judged as sinners. Because no individual can keep either the Law of God or the law of their own conscience, all human beings are sinners and subject to receive God’s judgment or wrath (Rm 2:5; 3:9, 19-21). God cannot lay down a law, attach a penalty, and threaten infliction and proceed no further. Therefore, in every instance of disobedience or transgress of the law, the penalty of law must be inflicted, either personally or upon the bases of a substitute. Justice would allow the substitution of one person for another, provided that in the substitution no injustice is done to the rights of any of the parties. In other words, justice demands the punishment of the sinner, but it may also accept the sacrifice of another in the place of the sinner, as in the case of Christ being a substituting for us. There is a gulf of separation between mankind and God. We are sinful. (Romans 3:23) Without sanctification (purification from sin) "Pursue . . . the sanctification without which no one will see God." (Hebrews 12:14) Isaiah 59:1-2 -- Sin has separated us from God. Before sin came, mankind and God had fellowship with each other; now that fellowship is broken and impossible. (covered above) God’s holiness must hate sin and evil. (Tread carefully with understanding what is being said. God hates “sin and evil” and NOT THE SINNER! An attack upon “sin” is not an attack upon the person, but a the sin itself.) God cannot free the sinner from the penalty of sin and death until the demands of justice are satisfied. Justice is the outgrowth of holiness. Since holiness is God’s fundamental attribute it is only reasonable that He should be given satisfaction to remove the outrage of sin. When we talk about justice we mean more than the character of being made right. By justice we mean that moral excellence is the attribute that demands the distribution of rewards or punishment depending on the action of obedience or sin. In the case of sin, God must, because of His justice, punish sin through and by His wrath. In virtue of the holiness, He has instituted a moral government in the world, imposed just laws upon the creatures, and attached sanctions to them. Those sanctions involve distribution of rewards and punishments. In every instance of transgression, the penalty of law must be inflicted, either personally or vicariously; either upon the transgressor or upon his substitute. Wrath toward sin is the results of God’s holiness. God must be hostile toward corruption (Psalms 104:35; Romans 6:23). The wrath of God toward the sinner is real (He 10:30-31; 12:29). The wrath of God is a righteous wrath, and not like human wrath (Rm 2:1-11). The wrath of God is directed toward unbelief and wrongdoing of any form (Jn 3:36; Ep 5:6). Wrath is the administration of justice for failure in holiness. For God to uphold His holiness, justice must be administered. To withhold justice would be to deny that He is holy. There is nothing that we can do to satisfy the justice of God. No amount of works, or sacrifice, or obedience, or homage can produce in God the desire to remove the punishment for sin. In such a state we are hopelessly lost and destined for the wrath of God. God, because of His love, provided us a satisfaction for sin, Jesus Christ. Such a love must prompt us to love Him. There is only one way that I can avoid the penalty of sin and that is through the Substitute, Jesus Christ our Lord. So what can one conclude from all this I have written? To remove the wrath of God for sin and death one would be removing the necessity for Jesus Coming in His Incarnation, the necessity of His death, and thus no power in the resurrection. (More to come . . . ) [1]