20MillionDinar Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Those numbers are under the scrutiny of no less than the IMF, WTO, UN, WB, Major corps who are looking to get involved, big time investors, and of course, us The CBI is NOT "cookin' the books". Please refer to the following link, I posted a few articles half way down the page or so: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/77678-members-discussion-thread-for-the-debate-lop-vs-no-lop-sonny1-and-jmw/page__st__60 If I'm not mistaken Lehman's was the 4th largest investment bank which was under the scrutiny of probably every "3 letter" agency you posted above as well as tons of major corporations and other businesses / individuals... Now they are bankrupt! And yes someone was "cookin the books." By the way, Ernst & Young was one of the "outside" auditing companies who was involved. They faced lawsuits for fraud. Pretty interesting if you ask me. Not saying this is definitely the case but manipulation is all too common with financial institutions, major corporations, and yes even governments. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFnHappy Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 (edited) Please refer to the following link, I posted a few articles half way down the page or so: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/77678-members-discussion-thread-for-the-debate-lop-vs-no-lop-sonny1-and-jmw/page__st__60 If I'm not mistaken Lehman's was the 4th largest investment bank which was under the scrutiny of probably every "3 letter" agency you posted above as well as tons of major corporations and other businesses / individuals... Now they are bankrupt! And yes someone was "cookin the books." By the way, Ernst & Young was one of the "outside" auditing companies who was involved. They faced lawsuits for fraud. Pretty interesting if you ask me. Not saying this is definitely the case but manipulation is all too common with financial institutions, major corporations, and yes even governments. Point taken....although I still think the numbers are right, as they just make sense to me. 25T dinar = 21.3B dollars, with roughly a population of 30M people, that leaves $712 per person outside of banks with a portion of that outside Iraq's borders.....not too hard to believe. Edited August 2, 2011 by MrFnHappy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darin Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Point taken....although I still think the numbers are right, as they just make sense to me. 25T dinar = 21.3B dollars, with roughly a population of 30M people, that leaves $712 per person outside of banks with a portion of that outside Iraq's borders.....not too hard to believe. I find that most people are going to believe what they choose to believe. For myself, I try to always consider a # of possibilities. This keeps for an open-mind. And using this process, I also learn much more.. If I was stuck to believe just one thing, I guess I wouldn't have a reason to consider other options or keep an open-mind. My overall point, just trying to share idea, opinions, and so forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shick Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 I just read the debate and man I tell you it was awesome, I hope and pray that sonny1 is right with his last post and if he is it's going to be a great day in the neighborhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurfingTheDinarWave Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Both gentlemen had great points and it was a great debate, one thing that seemed little unfair was jmw had a lot of help sonny1 had none, had I known this was coming I would have had sonny1 prepared with his links and facts where he may have needed them and well even his math, but the one fact is that can't be explained through research or history is what sonny1 pointed out in closing: when has the circumstances of events and situations in the world ever come to the time and space they are now surrounding Iraq or any other country for that matter? ABSOLUTELY NEVER it's what you, jmw, sonny1, adam, nor I can explain an unprecedented event to which not one person knows the outcome of, only God hiself knows the answer and we are only privy to watch it happen and be a part of the history it will create! Just my Here's a little food for thought since this is an important article that you lopsters seemed to overlook basically because it would give you less to talk about and negate your argument: Word has spread 'round the globe, partly due to the diligent efforts of the dinar forums, which have compiled vast amounts of research, data and first hand intel, in an effort to determine, and plan for, the two most important pieces of information associated to this grand event – "the rate" and "the date". 120+ countries will see changes in their currency values along with Iraq upon the initiation of this unprecedented event. Each nation's currency rate will ultimately (if not immediately) be based mostly on the nation's assets (precious metals, oil, gas, GDP, etc.). See the article in Business Line "Drifting Back to the Gold Standard" http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/opinion/columns/s-s-tarapore/article2032360.ece?homepage=true Here's Steve Forbes telling about the US doing it in 2012: http://www.moneynews.com/StreetTalk/forbes-us-gold-standard/2011/08/31/id/409369 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmw Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Both gentlemen had great points and it was a great debate, one thing that seemed little unfair was jmw had a lot of help sonny1 had none, had I known this was coming I would have had sonny1 prepared with his links and facts where he may have needed them and well even his math, but the one fact is that can't be explained through research or history is what sonny1 pointed out in closing: when has the circumstances of events and situations in the world ever come to the time and space they are now surrounding Iraq or any other country for that matter? ABSOLUTELY NEVER it's what you, jmw, sonny1, adam, nor I can explain an unprecedented event to which not one person knows the outcome of, only God hiself knows the answer and we are only privy to watch it happen and be a part of the history it will create! Just my Here's a little food for thought since this is an important article that you lopsters seemed to overlook basically because it would give you less to talk about and negate your argument: Word has spread 'round the globe, partly due to the diligent efforts of the dinar forums, which have compiled vast amounts of research, data and first hand intel, in an effort to determine, and plan for, the two most important pieces of information associated to this grand event – "the rate" and "the date". 120+ countries will see changes in their currency values along with Iraq upon the initiation of this unprecedented event. Each nation's currency rate will ultimately (if not immediately) be based mostly on the nation's assets (precious metals, oil, gas, GDP, etc.). See the article in Business Line "Drifting Back to the Gold Standard" http://www.thehindub...e?homepage=true Here's Steve Forbes telling about the US doing it in 2012: http://www.moneynews...08/31/id/409369 excellent points...and I would agree with you and Mr. Forbes, that the US and other countries will have to migrate back to some kind of gold standard...But Iraq doesn't have gold they have oil and too much currency. with a M2 of 60 trillion how much gold would they need to back a revaluation??? Their current GDP is roughly 100 Billion per year and of this about 90% of it current oil production. This revenue is what they use to run their country...which is barely enough. Their current output is around 2.8 mbpd....even if they double it their GDP wouldn't be much more the 200 bn per year and they are nowhere near being able to double it....however, has they do increase their GDP the currency will have an opportunity to grow and this will be our best chance of getting a return on our investment....but to all of a sudden do it overnight to even ten cents is not currently physically possible. BTW..Sonny did have help (Darin helped him with his questions) He also had my questions ahead of time and certainly has the resources to get help with them (he is very close to both Adam and Medic)...it doesn't matter how DIFFERENT Iraq is to any other historical situation, there are still financial principles that must be applied...and one of the big ones is how much currency is in circulation....and one of the best and fastest ways to reduce this is through a redenomination. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinaris4me Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 This was a year ago but seems to be headed to an obvious conclusion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontlop Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 when someone makes the arguement that the oil has to be out of the ground for it to count leads me to say this ... do you think the natural storgae facilities of iraqi oil arent good enough .. they been holding that oil for 1000s of years .. why would they have to build an above the ground facilitiy .. pump all the oil out of its present natural storgae facility .. into another man made facility .. then pump it from there to the markets ..whats next it has no value till its refined ? if they had to build a man made facility to pump it out of the ground into a man made facility then pump it again to the markets . thats just added cost to the crude that is not necessary . its already in a storage faciltiy .. what if iraq builds a underground facility in the earth .. and pumps it into that first .. then repumps it to the market .. would that be what is required .or does it have to be in a metal or plastic container .. man made for it to count as an asset . id like to se this requirement that it has to be above ground before it can be used as an asset . or is this just an opinion .. sub soil assets are being added to countrys national accounts .. right now .. and i say they do not have to be in man made facilities to be used as assets to that nations wealth . Energy and Mineral ResourcesIn this section, the methodology used in the estimation of the valueof nonrenewable resources is described. At least three reasons liebehind the diffi culties in such calculations. First, the importance of theinclusion of natural resources in the national accounting systems has beenrecognized only in the last decades, and although efforts to broaden thenational accounts are being made, they are mostly limited to internationalorganizations (such as the UN or the World Bank). Second, there are noprivate markets for subsoil resource deposits to convey information on thevalue of these stocks. Third, the stock size is defi ned in economic terms—reserves are “that part of the reserve base which could be economicallyextracted or produced at the time of determination”—and, therefore, it isdependent on the prevalent economic conditions, namely technology andprices.6Despite all these diffi culties, dollar values were assigned to the stocksof the main energy resources (oil, gas, and coal7) and to the stocks of10 metals and minerals (bauxite, copper, gold, iron ore, lead, nickel,phosphate rock, silver, tin, and zinc) for all the countries that haveproduction figures.Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/92667-iqd-backing/page-8#ixzz2M8FPVrtt Do Changes in Wealth Matter forthe Generation of Well-Being?Natural resources are special economic goods because they are notproduced. As a consequence, natural resources will yield economicprofi ts—rents—if properly managed. These rents can be an importantsource of development fi nance, and countries like Botswana and Malaysiahave successfully used natural resources in this way. There are nosustainable diamond mines, but there are sustainable diamond-miningcountries. Behind this statement is an assumption that it is possible totransform one form of wealth—diamonds in the ground—into otherforms of wealth such as buildings, machines, and human capital.Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/92667-iqd-backing/page-8#ixzz2M8Fhr9Hk Natural resources play two basic roles in development:• The fi rst, mostly applicable to the poorest countries and poorestcommunities, is the role of local natural resources as the basis ofsubsistence.• The second is as a source of development fi nance. Commercialnatural resources can be important sources of profi t and foreignexchange. Rents on exhaustible, renewable, and potentiallysustainable resources can be used to fi nance investments in otherforms of wealth. In the case of exhaustible resources these rentsmust be invested if total wealth is not to decline.Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/92667-iqd-backing/page-8#ixzz2M8G0Zva2 maybe im wrong .. but it seems like these tools have become avaliable recently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontlop Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 A phrase I like to refer to: Not all re-denominations are a LOP, however all LOPs are a re-denomination. Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/77729-official-discussion-on-the-debate/#ixzz1Tr1fnfqB This statement is quite correct, the UK re-denominated its coinage in 1971. Maybe I am taking a too simplistic view, if there is to be a RD( as advocated) then what is the hold up on this. The effects would be minimal as there would be no change in the value. The currency would run in parallel till old notes expired, dual pricing could operate in stores, little effect outside Iraq. So what is stopping a RD taking place, and an international currency with RV to follow? The fact there appears to be external controlling factors would indicate its not that straightforward. To my mind this indicates there is a high possibility of a straight RV. this is true 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthwarrior Posted September 26, 2013 Report Share Posted September 26, 2013 That was GREAT!!! Thank you for this very informative debate.Many,Many people here blow me away with thier knowledge of what is truly going on.Thank you again gentlemen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontlop Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 We still don't know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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