Open Debate on whether Religion offers any social benefits.

[virginialadybug]

Social benefit of religious beliefs - believing there is a higher power keeps our evil natures in check

There are many people, if they did not believe in a God who will judge them, who would wreak havoc on lots of other people.

Edited April 13, 2011 by virginialadybug

[Tiffany23]

This posting in the last 24 hrs have simply been superb! This is by far the most valuable info I have yet encountered on this subject. Wookerbee, Smee, Capike, Zig...and the rest of you, I'd kiss you all (on the cheek of course) if I could!

Ok first, the last few post seem to me to be getting a bit off scope of the posting. Again, we are not here to discuss which religion is best or if there is a God. We are here to discuss if there are any social benefits of religion.

Zig...I think you hit the nail on the head with your post. While my heart so much wants to believe..it is my mind that makes me . Many who wish to convert me back to Christianity tug at the heart string but there is so much evidence that support evolution that I can't make the "leap of faith". Moreso, simply going back over the history of Christianity, specifically Constantine and his impact on Christianty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great_and_Christianity), leaves little doubt in me of it legitimacy.

Tampa...merely looking at how the flu is harder to get rid of now than before because the different strains have evolved and adopted to our penicillin demonstrates to me how evolution is at play...that is the survival of the fittest. But again, we are going off scope.

I have actually had conversations with people that have stated that if they truely did not believe in a God or more to the point a Heaven/Hell...they would indeed do anything they wanted..including rape and murder. Which leads me again to a discussion I started with Capike. We are all intelligent and I believe we all live in the mid to upper range of a standard of living in the western world. Like Smee, I deal with people that are, as the Brit saying goes, "scratching a begger's a$$ (dupa)". They are not just living paycheck to paycheck but day by day. Many of them have rap sheet longer than my arm...but like smee says, they all believe in a God..and that belief (in my observation) keeps them at check. They will steal, cheat, lie and sell their bodies for the night but they won't murder or knowingly rape someone. The belief in a Hell has theym significantly scared enough not to cross that line..yet.

With that said, if there were no religion, how in the world would society reach out to those people and give them both "hope" that life will be better AND scared enough not to want to go to hell or not have a chance to go to heaven? Only Religion, in my mind, does that. Again, this is my personal observation and I really can't back it up with anything but a gut feeling.

[littlesam]

http://youtu.be/aCeSJw3Qzls

I hope this worked Im having trouble getting this to paste..lol....I found this to be interesting
yep didnt work.. ..sorry Edited April 13, 2011 by littlesam

[bahama0811]

I have been a Christian since I was very young and I didn't really know what it was all about. In the last 6 months or so I have become very devout in my beliefs. Now, I think religion and what I believe are completely separate. Religion at its roots isn't the best thing. Don't get me wrong, there are many great things that come out of religion but there are also a lot of bad things that come from it.

I do feel that religion offers "social benefits". Assuming that as a religious person you are going to church, there are many groups and events that you can be a part of. In any given church there are children's groups, youth groups, college groups, etc. There are many ways that you can be socially involved in your church. Many churches offer group outings or get together's that anyone can be a part of. My children are involved in a group called Awana. It is a group that teaches young children the Bible among other things. I have recently become a part of a mission of our church called Crossover Senegal. This is a group that meets weekly so that we can prepare for trips to Senegal, West Africa to share the love of Jesus. I recently returned from a trip there and it was one of the most amazing experiences of my life. These are just some of the social benefits you can get from being "religious".

As far as people being morally obligated to do certain things because of religion, I do agree with that sentiment. When God gave Moses the 10 commandments it gave people something to shoot for morally. The Golden Rule that is taught in the Bible is "love your neighbor as yourself". This is certainly a good start for living a good moral life. With religion you always tend to keep those things in the back of your mind. No one is perfect. I do think the world would be a whole lot different without religion but as humans we all want something to believe in.

[Kenneth]

Depends what religion. Does destroying another society offer any social benefits?

http://youtu.be/Zy6Ue4ulYhA

[littlesam]

Prison statistics would suggest otherwise. Peace

Speaking of evolution...... Check this out

http://youtu.be/aCeSJw3Qzls

heres one also cap..I watched the evolution one you posted..please watch this..its long

[Markinsa]

I found this article on another website that I feel is relevant to this debate.

Prayer in schools prior to 1962 was utilized in school districts all over the U.S. in many varieties. Some teachers used extemporaneous prayers, simply expressing their thoughts and desires; others implemented structured prayers, such as the Lord's Prayer or the 23rd Psalm, or others approved by local school boards. New York students prayed each day:

"Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence on Thee and beg Thy blessing over us, our parents, our teachers, and our nation."

It was this simple prayer which came under fire and went to the Supreme Court for the landmark decision.

Much has been said both for and against prayer in schools. There is little doubt that neither the Lord Jesus Himself nor the founding fathers would have been in favour of ‘forced’ or ‘state sponsored’ prayer. The option to pray or not to pray is a matter of individual choice and has to come from the heart. It is a matter of some doubt whether the actual doing away of prayer in schools has directly contributed to the escalation of teen-age pregnancies and suicides and the downward spiral of the SAT scores. The Pharisees thought they would be heard for their ‘much speaking’, and similarly it is questionable as to how much value there is in a ‘canned’ prayer even if recited by thousands of young people across the country. (Consider that most schools in India start their day with a very generic prayer, similar to the one that sparked the U.S. Supreme court’s decision on the Engels v. Vitale case in 1962).

What Really Caused The Downward Spiral?

In the words of Greg Koukl..

Some have suggested that there is a causal relationship between taking prayer out of school and all the other bad things that happen in our society. I'm not sure that it's valid. The rooster crows and the sun comes up. Does that mean that the rooster causes the sun to come up? Because the sun comes up after the rooster crows, does it mean that if we killed the rooster we'll be perpetually in darkness? The point is that just because one thing happens after another doesn't mean that the second is caused by the first. [1]

However some indisputable statistics tell us that the downward slide in behavior started about the time of the court decision and was very evidently related. As we see it, the court ruling to remove prayer from the school system was nothing more than the ‘official’ stamp on the removal of God from a very crucial part of our society. It was simply one large step among many small ones, which has contributed to the moral & spiritual disintegration of the US. It was a flying leap across the narrow chasm separating a God fearing moral country and the chaotic ‘everything goes’ situation we find ourselves in today. The message the Supreme Court sent to the country that fateful day was that it was okay to ‘remove’ God from His rightful place. They were simply another, very effective, tool in Satan’s hand

Remove the fear of God from the human heart, whitewash the reality that, sooner or later, all of us will answer to a supremely moral Being, eliminate the concept that He demands adherence to His laws and it is but a short step to the deterioration of the cornerstone of society… The Family. With the fear of God done away with there is no longer any reason to treat the marriage vows as sacred, to bring up God-fearing children. From there it is an even shorter step to all the other sinister and evil circumstances we find ourselves in today…. Teen pregnancies, violent crime, suicide, drugs and alcohol abuse are the very logical fruits of a society that has forgotten that He is a

God of wrath.

The elimination of the fear of God, symbolized by the Supreme courts actions in the matter of school prayer, led to a dramatic increase in crime, venereal disease, premarital sex, illiteracy, suicide, drug use, public corruption, and other social ills. This documented by Specialty Research Associates, under the direction of David Barton, that has released a report entitled America: To Pray or Not to Pray. Below are just a few of the examples featured in Barton's report.

A. Young People

• 1. For 15 years before 1963 pregnancies in girls ages 15 through 19 years had been no more than 15 per thousand After 1963 pregnancies increased 187% in the next 15 years.
  2. For younger girls, ages 10 to 14 years, pregnancies since 1963 are up 553%.
  3. Before 1963 sexually transmitted diseases among students were 400 per 100,000. Since 1963, they were up 226% in the next 12 years.
  

B. The Family

• 1. Before 1963 divorce rates had been declining for 15 years. After 1963 divorces increased 300% each year for the next 15 years.
  2. Since 1963 unmarried people living together is up 353%
  3. Since 1963 single parent families are up 140%.
  4. Since 1963 single parent families with children are up 160%.
  

C. Education

• 1. The educational standard of measure has been the SAT scores. SAT scores had been steady for many years before 1963. From 1963 they rapidly declined for 18 consecutive years, even though the same test has been used since 1941.
  2. In 1974-75 the rate of decline of the SAT scores decreased, even though they continued to decline. That was when there was an explosion of private religious schools. There were only 1000 Christian schools in 1965. Between 1974 to 1984 they increased to 32,000.
  
  • a. That could have an impact if the private schools had higher SAT scores. In checking with the SAT Board it was found that indeed the SAT scores for private schools were nearly 100 points higher than public schools.
    b. In fact the scores were at the point where the public schools had been before their decline started in 1963 when prayer and Bible reading/ instruction was removed from the schools.
    c. The scores in the public schools were still declining.
    

3. Of the nation's top academic scholars, three times as many come from private religious schools, which operate on one-third the funds as do the public schools.

D. The Nation

• 1. Since 1963 violent crime has increased 544%.
  3. Illegal drugs have become an enormous & uncontrollable problem.
  2. The nation has been deprived of an estimated 30 million citizens through legal abortions just since 1973.
  

http://www.inplainsite.org/what_happened_when_the_praying.html

[believing]

The evidence listed below is the most compelling I have seen for the position that the belief in a diety and the idea that one can talk to; (pray to) and the idea that there is ONE who is unseen but all seeing...is a great reason to behave in a socially acceptable way. That is what common sense is. To avoid punishment, and to hope for reward is the simple design of BELIEVING.

To Pray or Not to Pray. Below are just a few of the examples featured in Barton's report.

A. Young People

1. For 15 years before 1963 pregnancies in girls ages 15 through 19 years had been no more than 15 per thousand After 1963 pregnancies increased 187% in the next 15 years.

2. For younger girls, ages 10 to 14 years, pregnancies since 1963 are up 553%.

3. Before 1963 sexually transmitted diseases among students were 400 per 100,000. Since 1963, they were up 226% in the next 12 years.

B. The Family

1. Before 1963 divorce rates had been declining for 15 years. After 1963 divorces increased 300% each year for the next 15 years.

2. Since 1963 unmarried people living together is up 353%

3. Since 1963 single parent families are up 140%.

4. Since 1963 single parent families with children are up 160%.

C. Education

1. The educational standard of measure has been the SAT scores. SAT scores had been steady for many years before 1963. From 1963 they rapidly declined for 18 consecutive years, even though the same test has been used since 1941.

2. In 1974-75 the rate of decline of the SAT scores decreased, even though they continued to decline. That was when there was an explosion of private religious schools. There were only 1000 Christian schools in 1965. Between 1974 to 1984 they increased to 32,000.

a. That could have an impact if the private schools had higher SAT scores. In checking with the SAT Board it was found that indeed the SAT scores for private schools were nearly 100 points higher than public schools.

b. In fact the scores were at the point where the public schools had been before their decline started in 1963 when prayer and Bible reading/ instruction was removed from the schools.

c. The scores in the public schools were still declining.

3. Of the nation's top academic scholars, three times as many come from private religious schools, which operate on one-third the funds as do the public schools.

D. The Natio

1. Since 1963 violent crime has increased 544%.

3. Illegal drugs have become an enormous & uncontrollable problem.

2. The nation has been deprived of an estimated 30 million citizens through legal abortions just since 1973.

Read more: http://dinarvets.com...0#ixzz1JSd1mvyj

There is a single emptiness in humans that can only be filled with the Truth. Nothing else will fulfill or fill the God shaped hole in our hearts. The Battle is indeed in the head and that is exactly where you must decide to BELIEVE. You have a free will and may chose to believe or not believe, but do not expect the battle to just go away because one day you make a decision to believe in God and have a nice feeling inside. The Battle still rages and it is still in your own head. Many things will try to discourage your faith. Yet, we are told that the just shall live by faith. It is not easy, yet it is rewarding ....even here on earth and the hope of rewards in the eternal life to come.

I experienced a near death experience a few years ago....my life has never been the same. It is ALL true. There is more than just this life. I was unaware of my seperation until I was shocked back into my body, so I did not have an out of body experience...I was simply with another who spoke to me and took me places. I saw, I felt, I smelled, and I heard. In other words my natural senses were all working. I communicated with another and I felt LOVE. Not love that you feel here in the natural. Solid love.

Anyway, as I read these discussions, I was dismayed to see that some would reduce "faith" down to a limited understanding of the unknown. Faith is what you have...a noun. Belief is what you do with it...a verb. The sstatement; "I know that God exsists by faith and I show my faith by believing it to be true."

is most clearly understood in our actions and not our words.

In any case, religion defined as knowing that there is a Greater Power, an ALL Mighty Sovereign God Who is ALL Knowing and Always with us is indeed most benefitful to society. On the other hand, the organized religious cults, and groups, that form around one man or one idea, can hinder society according to their beliefs and actions. Religion in that respect will not only send you to hell, but will make life hell on earth. True religion, the belief in One True Living GOD promotes social interaction and does society good in many ways.

The remark made by someone earlier said that prayer does not work (they made the claim that it was proven it does not work)....SORRY...it is actually PROVEN that PRAYER DOES WORK in many hospital studies. I worked in the medical field for many years and know by my own experience it does, and have read more than one study showing that those people who were prayed for had a much greater chance of survival, and a more rapid recovery.

http://www.plim.org/PrayerDeb.htm

http://www.scienceda...01214085328.htm

http://www.suite101....-for-me-a202806

This topic has been of growing interest to some scientists, and a significant number of controlled studies have shown that prayer can actually have real measurable effects.

Read more at Suite101: Does Prayer Actually Work?: Scientific Evidence for the Power of Prayer http://www.suite101....6#ixzz1JSlqNAdK

Edited April 14, 2011 by believing

[learning all i can]

My quest here is not to convert, belittle, suade or chastise any, but I must affirm that you, Tiifany(Buddhist) and Capike(Atheist) have continued to stand firm in your beliefs and have made public knowledge of your convictions. I now ask that you allow me to do the same. I am a Christian. There is nothing any one can say or do to convince me otherwise of the Saving Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. This is planted in my brain and my heart as I am sure your personal beliefs have been also. Therefore, I wish no individual will feel that I am picking or challaging them to futher debate or discussion. With this introduction, I will now prceed with my understandings and beliefs of religion and social benefits:

Nobel prize winning American physicilst Steven Weinberg writes: Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion.........So how as a Christian should I respond? I will leave Muslims, Hindus, Mormoms Busshist and Jedi Knights to respond to themselves as they do not share the same core beliefs as Christians. altho in passing that is another fundamental belief of the atheist creed that all religions are essentially the same- since they repeated statement or accusation that "atheist do not fly planes into skyscrapers".

It may have escaped you but neither do Presbyterian, Catholic, or Southern Baptist.

In the "God Delusion", Richard Dawkins repeats Weinberg's claim that religion is a virus that infects the human race and causes otherwise "good" people to behave in a way which is dangerous and evil. Given Dawkins faith in empiricism, what is his evidence for this sweeping condemantion? His major evidence appears to be 9/11 and Fred Phelps of "Godhatesfags.com infamy.

We could admit mea culpa, and agree that religion has done a great deal of harm. Futhermore, although we would not accept that all religions are the same, we must acknowledge that many bad things have been done in the name of Christianity.

We could also swap accusations, gently remindinding our atheists that when athesism has become the state philosphy, it has rarely lead to a outbreak of love and peace....Stalin, Mao, PolPot, Hitler and others that share the belief that religion is a virus that needs to be eradicated.

Soooooo....in closing, to understandod,good, bad + religion, one must look at o0nes self. If one excepts Bibical teachings, that all human and all areas of human life is infected by sin. Then one must conclude that religion is not the virus nor the cure.....SIN is. I am the virus, you are the virus...As a result, religion become a tool for human sinfulness.

Religion without Christ only adds fuel to the fire, but take away all religion and we still have fire

Tiffany, if I am scolded for being off your topic-----then so beit. I do not apologize but stand firm as you and others stand firm with your own convictions.

BTW, my evidence: The Holy Bible (GOD BREATHED) and the Holy Spirit with in my heart

I thankyou for hearing me out and God bless you all.

[littlesam]

My quest here is not to convert, belittle, suade or chastise any, but I must affirm that you, Tiifany(Buddhist) and Capike(Atheist) have continued to stand firm in your beliefs and have made public knowledge of your convictions. I now ask that you allow me to do the same. I am a Christian. There is nothing any one can say or do to convince me otherwise of the Saving Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. This is planted in my brain and my heart as I am sure your personal beliefs have been also. Therefore, I wish no individual will feel that I am picking or challaging them to futher debate or discussion. With this introduction, I will now prceed with my understandings and beliefs of religion and social benefits:

Nobel prize winning American physicilst Steven Weinberg writes: Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion.........So how as a Christian should I respond? I will leave Muslims, Hindus, Mormoms Busshist and Jedi Knights to respond to themselves as they do not share the same core beliefs as Christians. altho in passing that is another fundamental belief of the atheist creed that all religions are essentially the same- since they repeated statement or accusation that "atheist do not fly planes into skyscrapers".

It may have escaped you but neither do Presbyterian, Catholic, or Southern Baptist.

In the "God Delusion", Richard Dawkins repeats Weinberg's claim that religion is a virus that infects the human race and causes otherwise "good" people to behave in a way which is dangerous and evil. Given Dawkins faith in empiricism, what is his evidence for this sweeping condemantion? His major evidence appears to be 9/11 and Fred Phelps of "Godhatesfags.com infamy.

We could admit mea culpa, and agree that religion has done a great deal of harm. Futhermore, although we would not accept that all religions are the same, we must acknowledge that many bad things have been done in the name of Christianity.

We could also swap accusations, gently remindinding our atheists that when athesism has become the state philosphy, it has rarely lead to a outbreak of love and peace....Stalin, Mao, PolPot, Hitler and others that share the belief that religion is a virus that needs to be eradicated.

Soooooo....in closing, to understandod,good, bad + religion, one must look at o0nes self. If one excepts Bibical teachings, that all human and all areas of human life is infected by sin. Then one must conclude that religion is not the virus nor the cure.....SIN is. I am the virus, you are the virus...As a result, religion become a tool for human sinfulness.

Religion without Christ only adds fuel to the fire, but take away all religion and we still have fire

Tiffany, if I am scolded for being off your topic-----then so beit. I do not apologize but stand firm as you and others stand firm with your own convictions.

BTW, my evidence: The Holy Bible (GOD BREATHED) and the Holy Spirit with in my heart

I thankyou for hearing me out and God bless you all.

Tiff wouldnt to that she is a remarkable young lady...I too am a believer have been a christian since the age of 9 yep southern baptist church my faith hasnt wavered. Cap is a kind soul he might reply differently than us but its ok to agree and disagree..they both know how I feel and they still accept me so why wouldnt I accept them..Faith is like a mustardseed...tiny..plant it water it and let it grow..See I care about people where they are in their life, what makes them tick..everyone has a past and a suitcase full of sins but thanks god I can pray and ask for forgiveness...in my opinion if you got off topic its all good and they wont scold you but they might give you a different reply response..thanks for you post and see I got sidetracked also

[Tiffany23]

Learning...I thought you did a great job! It was from the heart and first hand experience...exactly what this posting is about. Thank you very much for sharing!

Markinsa...Thank you for submitting this info. It is very interesting as it goes against what I have researched over the years (which I will be upfront, my research could be flawed)...ok...a few things come to mind when I'm looking at those percentages. Remember in the early to mid 60s is when two very important things took place in western society that had not happen before in modern times: 1. birth control in the form of the "pill" became widely available 2. this along with other barrier breaking events in the 60s began to place more women in the workforce, which in turn had a large effect on divorce rates, women education levels, and of course with more women in work..including single moms.....latch key kids. Which again in turn leaves them with less adult guidance...more crime, more drug use etc.

I'm not saying that taking prayer out of school didn't have some effect on those percentage increase, but I've always thought it was the Woman's movmement that cause a large impact. Here is one article I could dig up that supports my hypothesis:

http://www2.lse.ac.uk/newsAndMedia/news/archives/2005/Birth_Control_Rights.aspx

http://www2.lse.ac.uk/newsAndMedia/news/archives/2005/Birth_Control_Rights.aspx

Edited April 14, 2011 by Tiffany23

[Markinsa]

Markinsa...Thank you for submitting this info. It is very interesting as it goes against what I have researched over the years (which I will be upfront, my research could be flawed)...ok...a few things come to mind when I'm looking at those percentages. Remember in the early to mid 60s is when two very important things took place in western society that had not happen before in modern times: 1. birth control in the form of the "pill" became widely available 2. this along with other barrier breaking events in the 60s began to place more women in the workforce, which in turn had a large effect on divorce rates, women education levels, and of course with more women in work..including single moms.....latch key kids. Which again in turn leaves them with less adult guidance...more crime, more drug use etc.

Tiffany, I was born in the early 60's, so I have some memory of what you are talking about and was a latch key kid myself. I believe there is some truth in what you are saying, but I don't believe women becoming independent and being in the workforce is the cause, but more of a result of another factor. Remember from your history class, during WWII, how women entered into the workforce to work in factories and take up the jobs, that the men left when they went to fight in the War. So, if entering the workforce and becoming independent, was the cause, then you would see a similar pattern of statistics during and immediately after WWII.

I think the cause of these statistics began in the late 50's and 60's. Humanism, Communism, Atheism, Agnostism, Evolution, and all the other human “look at me”, “what about me”, focused religions that exclude or refute there is a God. Once man determined that he no longer needed to abide by God's Law there is a break-down of the number one thing that contributes to society, the family. There subsequently, is an increased divorce rate, which leads to single parent families, which most of the time are headed by the mother. IMO, the absence of the father from the home is the number one thing that contributed to these statistics.

Fathers: The Greatest Influence

The truth about Men & Church

[bald1]

A debate would be nice, but your just a female.

[/quote

And your point is????

[txk9popo]

Good post Tiffany, you made some very good points. However social benefits are reaped by many for the simple fact that they are members of a certain church or "clic" as here in the Texas panhandle. In these northern counties of Texas most counties are an average of 900 square miles with a population of only 2 to 3 thousand people,,But they will have 10-15 different churches. They call it fellowship, following God or whatever they choose to say, but it boils down to what it brings to them in the community. Local politicians will attend a certain church, usually the largest, expecially just before the local elections come around and then you never see them darken the door of a church for another 4 years. I guess I'm neither Christian or athiest now that I think about it. I have been lied to and decieved by church members as well as non-believers. I have friends that are both. However, the non-believers don't tend to tell me how to live my life. They don't chastise me for tobacco use or the occasional Crown and water or the fact that I can let loose with a blue streak or dirty joke if the situation presents itself. Instead I try to treat folks as I would like to be treated myself and I guess if that's not good enough I will be judged in the afterlife if it is deemed so. I believe our soul will go on from here somewhere, who knows. If you listen to the average American christian, only christians will have an afterlife of glory and peace. What about Hindu's, Buddist, Catholics, Latter Day Saints, Amish, and the countless others. Do they not deserve the same? I question who determines who is right and all others are wrong. We are all humans. So I guess what I'm saying is that since I do not belong to a specific church, and smoke and partake of a little hard liquer every now and then I'm bound to go southbound. Back to what I was saying earlier, I can not stand hyprocisy, Not saying all christians are, no more than anyone else. As a cop I have seen my own prior Sheriff go the church, arrive at the office 30 minutes later and tell us if his wife ask anything, to tell her he got paged because he could'nt stand to be bored the the pastor's boring rhetoric. To me that's hypocrisy. Then when it is to their advantage be the holy roller then they are right back at church raising those arms in the air.. At that point I tend to have more respect for the athiest or non-believer Because they are not trying to be someone they are not in everyday life. Alot of what I see is people who attend a certain church tend to work together at the well paying jobs available. Not what you know,, It's who you know. Attend a certain church and you become the pillars of the community, if you choose not to than you are the lower class. These NICE church buildings did'nt get built by doing things for charities, Why should I give a 10% tithe so the preacher can live in the lap of luxury while my family has to live payday to payday, but yet they tell me it will come back to me tenfold. Not buyin it. I had an uncle who was a babtist tent revival preacher and in every town each week those folks would feed him, put new tires on his car etc. for free, Just as long as he would get up there and preach hellfire and brimstone each night for 4 nights. Then he would go to his hotel paid for by the people and drink himself into a stupor. SO YES, the social benefits of religion are reaped by many. Money, County, State and Federal and even world status can be obtained by using religion. And nothing irks me more than someone using God to better themselves or to make claims that he will help you gain riches. Do I believe in a higher power, Yes, who? I really don't know, as I am of American Indian ancestry maybe Mother Earth. That all being said I am not bashing believers or non-believers as all have the right to live and let live. I do believe that the majorities of the religions we have now have simply turned into to business. If I strayed away from the post's original meaning and purpose I sincerely apoligize.

[virginialadybug]

Prison statistics would suggest otherwise. Peace

Caplike,

Perhaps a large percentage of prisoners don't really believe in the judgement of God. If the people who do believe in judgement did not believe then prisons would be much more overrun than they are now. To which prison statistics are you referring?

A debate would be nice, but your just a female.

Bald1,

An intelligent female may have a difficult time debating someone who doesn't know when to use your and you're !

Edited April 15, 2011 by virginialadybug