You Can't Fix Stupid: The Iraqi Dinar Scam Lives

[Jaxinjersey]

Keep, you are a very book smart, by the numbers type of investor. I respect that position because I am as well. However when it comes to this particular investment, for me anyway, all that goes right out the window. For me and many others, this is a faith based investment. It literally has the potential to be an investment of biblical proportion. The likes of which the world has never seen.

I love reading articles like this because it only reinforces my belief in "high risk, high reward". When this thing hits, and in my heart I know it will, we are all going to look like the Einstein's of the investment world because so many experts are saying, outwardly anyway, that this investment is a scam. That increases the high risk of the investment and it also increases the high reward, so please Lord keep them coming!

Well said... and I agree!   The normalcy bias is very much in play...  hopefully minds are opening to new possibilities!   But, in any case...  the "fun" of this is in the "faith"...  whatever your faith may be!

[4aprofit]

I've said this before...if one likes fishing...they dont go and buy magazines...(as an example)...on needlecrafting'...and waste time writing about how much they hate needlecrafting...and if they are soooo darn rich...like involving themselves in another investment that's better than this, or one that they think would be better than what this could end up being...their time will be spent there...and not somehwere that they think is a lost cause'...if they're broke..whats there to bash...if this does'nt work...you will just be broker....if your already rich and you lose at this, you'll just be a little less forunate...

 

Furthermore...is not the stock market, 401-k's, bonds, mutuals, etc...all a risk...whats so different about this that requires so much micro-management over...especially if one does'nt believe in it...nothing from nothing leaves nothing, so stay away if you dont like it...

 

Why would anyone get in this to worry over what it cant do.....no one did that with Bear Stearns, Leahman-Brothers Worldcom, Enron and Others, and they TANKED!...and they were "NOT" depicted as per being a SCAM until it was over...hey, this aint over till it's over...so, get over it or get out of it!....Wow...how retarded....

Edited March 18, 2013 by 4aprofit

[LIBoy]

Are you using such terms as "biblical" in a generic sense as in huge, or are you saying it is your religions beliefs that lead you to think think this is a good investment? (hope you don't mind my asking, I suppose that was a little personal).

I have no problem with your question and appreciate the respect you showed in asking it. The use of the word biblical was intended to play off of the huge opportunity this investment possesses as well as the fact that the bible speaks of the rising of Babylon. Maybe the revitalization and rebirth of Iraq is what th bible is referring to. However, my religious beliefs would never cause me to invest in something like the dinar. The faith based investment I was referring to is more of a spiritual nature than a religious one.

Hope that answers your question. Take care.

[makecents]

Why not at least have hope that there is anything and everything positive that can come form all of this....whether it's from Iraqs growth, GDP, simple economics, etc....what else is there for even any hope anywhere...as if nothing happens it really wont matter what color or type money we are holding in another year or two if there is no plan....what really is the point of worrying..either your in or your out...and this thing has not even finalized as per the final bell being rung as per the finality of it all...and they have had 10 years to have canned it all....and they havent...so ride or dump..it's simple...

But you're not doing that. You are claiming that positive indicators for the Iraq economy indicate that Iraqi dinars are a good investment. Isn't that what your "follow the money" post was about?

I have no problem with your question and appreciate the respect you showed in asking it. The use of the word biblical was intended to play off of the huge opportunity this investment possesses as well as the fact that the bible speaks of the rising of Babylon. Maybe the revitalization and rebirth of Iraq is what th bible is referring to. However, my religious beliefs would never cause me to invest in something like the dinar. The faith based investment I was referring to is more of a spiritual nature than a religious one.

Hope that answers your question. Take care.

Yep, thanks.

[4aprofit]

Let's put it like this...if the U.S. Dollar was to drop to the price of the dinar tomorrow...what would happen to the U.S. Dollar?....

 

How long can Iraq operate using dollars, whether partially or even petro dollar wise?....

 

Why has Iraq had a currency that has been in the several dollar range for appx. 80-90 years except for the wars, whereby sanctions restricted them, and not now be able to return to a decent rate?

 

Why cant Iraq have a new good rate...especailly now, as the entire world moves in with trillions invested, unlike before when their currecny was high..and nothing to the magnitude of what is going on now was happening?

 

Do people not think that this will not help the U.S....the U.S. sends representatives to Iraq, as well as entire delegations everytime they pass gas over there..lol...and then we are still pumping billions into that country, and we are supposed to be broke?

 

I could write for days, either one sees the big picture or they dont...nuff said....

[makecents]

Let's put it like this...if the U.S. Dollar was to drop to the price of the dinar tomorrow...what would happen to the U.S. Dollar?....

I don't understand the question. If the US expanded the dollar money supply by a thousand fold, that would be hyperinflation and be terrible for everyone. That IS what Saddam did.

 

How long can Iraq operate using dollars, whether partially or even petro dollar wise?....

 

Why has Iraq had a currency that has been in the several dollar range for appx. 80-90 years except for the wars, whereby sanctions restricted them, and not now be able to return to a decent rate?

 

Why cant Iraq have a new good rate...especailly now, as the entire world moves in with trillions invested, unlike before when their currecny was high..and nothing to the magnitude of what is going on now was happening?

The dinar fell a few thousand times lower than its level in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, due to Saddam expanding the money supply by 1000s of times and spending the reservers. As long as they have 75T dinars in M2 and $70B USD worth in reserves the rate will stay pretty much where it is. To me, its just arithmetic. The future of Iraq's economy is largely orthogonal to that. A growing GDP in no way implies a growing exchange rate (if anything its just the opposite as business, especially importers, hates varying exchange rates).

[4aprofit]

CHECK THIS OUT!..Planeloads of U.S. Dollars Being Shipped to Iraq & Still Happening!

 

WE HAVE HEARD THAT THE U.S. HAS BEEN PUMPING BILLIONS OF USD INTO IRAQ REGULARLY...EVEN STILL NOW TODAY!....I DONT KNOW ABOUT THAT, BUT THIS CNBC VIDEO SHOWS WHERE APPX. 40 BILLION WAS MOVED FROM THE U.S. TO IRAQ, AND LIKE 11-12 BILLION OF THE 40 BILLION WAS SUPPOSEDLY STOLEN...BUT WHAT GET'S REALLY INTERESTING, IS AT APPX. 19 1/2 MINUTES INTO THE FILM, IT SHOWS THAT IRAQ'S DFI FUND, WHICH IS THE "DEVELOPMENT FUND FOR IRAQ", WHICH CONSISTS SUPPOSEDLY OF THE SIEZED ASSETS FROM SADAAM....IT DEPICTS NEAR THE END OF THE FILM, WHERE THE FUND HAS NOT WENT DOWN, BUT ACTUALLY GONE BACK UP TO 60 BILLION AFTER BEING DEPLETED OF THE 40 BILLION, DUE TO OIL REVENUES FROM IRAQ?...WHO IS PAYING WHO AND HOW SOME ASK?....AND IN THE FILM IT SAYS THAT THESE FUNDS ARE STILL BEING SENT OUT, BUT BY PRIVATE CARRIER INSTEAD OF U.S. MILITARY...I WONDER WHO MONITORS THAT?...IT SAYS THE LOADS ARE SMALLER NOWADAYS?...HOW WOULD WE KNOW?...HOW DO WE EVEN KNOW ACTUALLY HOW MUCH THERE EVER WAS THAT EXISTED, OR ACTUALLY HOW MUCH THAT ACTUALLY HAS BEEN STOLEN, OR HOW MUCH IS, OR WILL END UP BEING SENT TO IRAQ...AND/OR IS IT ALL JUST DFI MONIES?...ONLY ABOUT A COUPLE MONTHS AGO IT WAS ON FOX NEWS, WHERE A STATEMENT CAME ON THE NEWS AGAIN, THAT STATED TO THE EFFECT..."THAT GEORGE BUSH WAS RIGHT AND THE IRAQI WAR WONT COST AMERICA ANYTHING".....ALL OF THIS MAKES ONE SAY...WHAT?....AND WHY WOULD THE U.S. STILL BE SENDING MONEY TO IRAQ IF WE DID'NT THINK THAT WE WOULD BE RE-PAID..IF WE ARE SUPPOSEDLY BROKE OURSELVES?....AND IT'S SAID THAT THE U.S. IS SOMEWHAT PEGGED TO THE DINAR...AND THAT THE DINAR IS PEGGED TO THE DOLLAR...SO WHY, UNLESS THERE IS A PLAN?...DOES ANY DEFICIT REALLY MATTER?...IS THIS GOING TO BE THE POST WORLD WAR II MARSHALL PLAN ALL OVER BUT JUST BIGGER?....BECAUSE IF IT IS'NT, DOES IT REALLY MATTER...AS IT WILL ALL BE OVER AND EVERYTHING CRASHED WORLDWIDE ANYWAY IF NOT, AT LEAST MONETARILY!...DOES ANYONE KNOW OF ANYTHING ELSE THAT WILL BAIL OUT THE WORLD'S ECONOMY?...IF SO, NO ONE HAS STEPPED UP TO THE PLATE AND UTTERED A WORD..OR YET!.....ALL OF THIS IS TRULY INTERESTING INFO!!!....

 

CNBC VIDEO: DATED: 01/10/2012 http://www.another site.com/1/post/2012/02/cnbc-video-the-baghdad-job-iraqs-missing-billions.html

The first minute or so of this video is unbelievable, look at who all is at this meeting, as they are some of the largest US & Worldwide Corporations that are already invested in Iraq, then at appx. 4 minutes to 6 minutes into it, it mentions what the U.S. is actually doing in Iraq, but what is funny is that the U.S. media has blacked out most of this type information from the general populance, but in this segment Hillarious Clinton mentions where the IMF says Iraq will grow faster than China!..It already has from all new reports!

 

VIDEO: http://video.state.gov/en/top-stories/video/974775275001/promoting-commercial-opportunities-in-iraq-question-and-answer-period/s~creationDate/p~1/?p

Edited March 18, 2013 by 4aprofit

[dontlop]

So i guess those that had their cash in Swiss dinars and were using them in their day to day lives (the Kurds in the north) are all at least billionaires now, right?  Funny that the economy of Iraq sure does not look like that is the case.

 

Then again maybe all that was done was to recognize that there were multiple currencies in use at the time, despite the declarations of Saddam about demonetizing the Swiss dinar.  Thus exchanging them for the actual purchasing power they each had in local markets so that the exchange for the new Bremmer dinars was a value neutral event for holders of either type of currency.

i know you believe all the kurds were using swiss dinars and they were like brand new after  they were used for 20 years .. they nevr wore out .. the swiss dinar was  made out of super strong paper stronger than any paper currency in the world, you like to simply explain it away because your a lopster and  have admitted you are on this web site , more than once .. you state you are here so no one else gets ripped  off by this scam .../

 

you also stated that the swiss dinar floated  after it was demonetized .. it wasnt on any  exchange to float ,, but it floated  to give it more value than the dinar .. and i congradulate you for that analogy ... i hope you buy your dinars ..dont exchange them during the exchange .. wait till after  they are demonetized .. and practice your analogy .. let the demonetized bremmers float in your world .. and in 13 years go  exhange them in ,,.. and explain why your demonetized  bremmers are worth more .. since no one was prinmting them ...  the value went up on your personal float ...

good luck with your analogy .

[Darin]

I don't understand the question. If the US expanded the dollar money supply by a thousand fold, that would be hyperinflation and be terrible for everyone. That IS what Saddam did.

 

The dinar fell a few thousand times lower than its level in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, due to Saddam expanding the money supply by 1000s of times and spending the reservers. As long as they have 75T dinars in M2 and $70B USD worth in reserves the rate will stay pretty much where it is. To me, its just arithmetic. The future of Iraq's economy is largely orthogonal to that. A growing GDP in no way implies a growing exchange rate (if anything its just the opposite as business, especially importers, hates varying exchange rates).

The simple arithmetic is based upon their current monetary policy. Nothing is set in stone for them to change their monetary policy.

We really can't use history as to why they would not change their monetary policy since many things have changed.

They've created a new government that is basically a democracy

They're at their record levels of foreign reserves

They'll soon be reaching record levels in oil exports

With any luck, they'll have the HCL passes, Ch 7 removed, etc. etc.

They're receiving more foreign investments in than ever before

 

We can't predict what they will do, but we can hope that they make changes that we can benefit from, since some of the change that we would benefit from would also benefit any citizens holding or using dinars.

Patience is a key factor -

[4aprofit]

By the way, Saddam is gone...and all these companies and countries...did'nt go into Iraq to lose money!

 

IMO...If the U.S. Treasury, The U.S. Govt., The Fed. Reserve, The Iraqi Govt. & The CBI..all know we have Dinars...and either directly or indirectly... ALLOWED us to own them'...find out WHY...then we will ALL UNDERSTAND this entire PLAN!...LOL....

[makecents]

The simple arithmetic is based upon their current monetary policy. Nothing is set in stone for them to change their monetary policy.

We really can't use history as to why they would not change their monetary policy since many things have changed.

They've created a new government that is basically a democracy

They're at their record levels of foreign reserves

They'll soon be reaching record levels in oil exports

With any luck, they'll have the HCL passes, Ch 7 removed, etc. etc.

They're receiving more foreign investments in than ever before

Sure, I don't dispute any of that.  But I don't see how that impacts the exchange rate.  

 

We can't predict what they will do, but we can hope that they make changes that we can benefit from, since some of the change that we would benefit from would also benefit any citizens holding or using dinars.

Patience is a key factor -

Just one caveat: They can only do what is possible. So, for example it is not possible to have a money supply valued at 75T USD (more than the money supply of the entire world) with a 100B USD economy. If you were speaking about investing in Iraqi companies or real estate etc, I'd say you are correct (that its high risk but might pay off well, though not in the 1000x range). But not for investments in their currency.

By the way, Saddam is gone...and all these companies and countries...did'nt go into Iraq to lose money!

 

IMO...If the U.S. Treasury, The U.S. Govt., The Fed. Reserve, The Iraqi Govt. & The CBI..all know we have Dinars...and either directly or indirectly... ALLOWED us to own them'...find out WHY...then we will ALL UNDERSTAND this entire PLAN!...LOL....

 

I don't know if they know, but why would they care?  None of those entities are in the business of preventing people from doing foolish things.  Companies that are investing in Iraq are not doing so based on an expected appreciation of the dinar, but of just doing business.

[keepmwlknfny]

By the way, Saddam is gone...and all these companies and countries...did'nt go into Iraq to lose money!

 

IMO...If the U.S. Treasury, The U.S. Govt., The Fed. Reserve, The Iraqi Govt. & The CBI..all know we have Dinars...and either directly or indirectly... ALLOWED us to own them'...find out WHY...then we will ALL UNDERSTAND this entire PLAN!...LOL....

Your right they didnt go into Iraq to lose money.....they are investing in their.future, not their currency........the majority of all the investing going into Iraq is related to oil.....not gonna lose there.....

[boomer113189]

Your right they didnt go into Iraq to lose money.....they are investing in their.future, not their currency........the majority of all the investing going into Iraq is related to oil.....not gonna lose there.....

yep

[makecents]

i know you believe all the kurds were using swiss dinars and they were like brand new after  they were used for 20 years .. they nevr wore out .. the swiss dinar was  made out of super strong paper stronger than any paper currency in the world, you like to simply explain it away because your a lopster and  have admitted you are on this web site , more than once .. you state you are here so no one else gets ripped  off by this scam .../

Why do you insist on putting words in my mouth? Clearly ENOUGH Kurds were using the Swiss dinar to make it an important issue when the Bremers were issued.  Otherwise why were they accepted in the exchange?  Clearly the Swiss dinars were wearing out, and being reduced in number because of it. I don't know if Iraq will RD or not. I do know they have been talking about doing so for a long time. What I do know is that a huge sudden RV is not possible.

 

you also stated that the swiss dinar floated  after it was demonetized .. it wasnt on any  exchange to float ,, but it floated  to give it more value than the dinar ..

A local currency does not have to be on an exchange. Floating is just a way of saying that the value is based on what people will pay. It floated as its value was set in the markets (not currency markets but just the local market for goods and services that accepted Swiss dinars). It also did not (substantially anyway) get more value, but that the Saddam dinar got dramatically less value while the Swiss dinar stayed more or less even (rising a little due to a falling supply).

Edited March 18, 2013 by makecents

[umbertino]

Quote
Patience is a key factor -
End Quote
And we surely became World Champions time and time again at that.......

[4aprofit]

Why is the dinar NOT being used NOW?..at least not totally?.....if it is an issue that DOES NOT MATTER?....

 

And WHY does Iraq worry over issues regarding the dinar...like the exchnage rate, the dropping of zero's issues, the value of the dinars, the dollars being sold as per how it effects the dinar, etc.,etc., etc...

 

Furthermore...If the dinar was to never to be used again, or if it is to be scrapped...they have had appx. 10 years to do that...and the first appx. 7 of those years there was a war and civil war going on...and they didnt scrap it...in other words, why spend so much money, man power and countless hours deliberationg over something that is useless anyway...UNLESS THERE IS A PLAN!...lol....

[dontlop]

I don't understand the question. If the US expanded the dollar money supply by a thousand fold, that would be hyperinflation and be terrible for everyone. That IS what Saddam did.

 

The dinar fell a few thousand times lower than its level in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, due to Saddam expanding the money supply by 1000s of times and spending the reservers.

ill bet those demonetized saddam dinars are worth alot more in your book.. since they were not printed any more since the bremmer was introduced .. so what if they are demonetized . the batheists can just float them and exchange them .. screw the legal tender laws .who cares about imf monetoring .. they  dont need any reserves to back them up either ..right ? ,, since they are demonetized ..  .  they can just use saddam dinars any time they want . 

 

 

 

As long as they have 75T dinars in M2 and $70B USD worth in reserves the rate will stay pretty much where it is. To me, its just arithmetic.

last night you explained  the swiss dinar  didnt need any reserves to back it up ..that the reserves dont matter .. and being demonetized by the central bank  doesnt affect  its value .. you say it makes it stronger if its demonetized and  has nothing backing it up and isnt exchanged on any open market.. ya just float it .

 

 

so what your saying is iraq should demonetize the dinars ..  .. spend all their reserves ..  .. and just float a demonetized  dinar .. and  just tell the imf .. they are not needed for any auditing .. iraq will tally up its worth .. .. forget any legal tender laws .. they dont apply ... now your on a roll .. saying  the dinar is only  worh its reserves and staying that way ..its simple math .. .. why dont you take your lopster  analogy to the lopster bin. just curious ..

 

 

 

The future of Iraq's economy is largely orthogonal to that.

 

ya  you know the plans of iraq . they are going to be bound to the amount of reserves for eternity ..

 

A growing GDP in no way implies a growing exchange rate (if anything its just the opposite as business, especially importers, hates varying exchange rates).

how is the exchange rate established ..?

 

 i was wondering why it has gone up in the past was it established  at .00086 100 years ago ?.. i wonder how it changed so many times  over the last hundred years ..

[keepmwlknfny]

Why is the dinar NOT being used NOW?..at least not totally?.....if it is an issue that DOES NOT MATTER?....

 

And WHY does Iraq worry over issues regarding the dinar...like the exchnage rate, the dropping of zero's issues, the value of the dinars, the dollars being sold as per how it effects the dinar, etc.,etc., etc...

 

Furthermore...If the dinar was to never to be used again, or if it is to be scrapped...they have had appx. 10 years to do that...and the first appx. 7 of those years there was a war and civil war going on...and they didnt scrap it...in other words, why spend so much money, man power and countless hours deliberationg over something that is useless anyway...UNLESS THERE IS A PLAN!...lol....

Well yea there is a plan apparently......at least one.being put out the past 5 years or so to.scrap.the current currency.......i just hope they are bullsh&$ting........

[makecents]

Why is the dinar NOT being used NOW?..at least not totally?.....if it is an issue that DOES NOT MATTER?....

 

And WHY does Iraq worry over issues regarding the dinar...like the exchnage rate, the dropping of zero's issues, the value of the dinars, the dollars being sold as per how it effects the dinar, etc.,etc., etc...

 

Furthermore...If the dinar was to never to be used again, or if it is to be scrapped...they have had appx. 10 years to do that...and the first appx. 7 of those years there was a war and civil war going on...and they didnt scrap it...in other words, why spend so much money, man power and countless hours deliberationg over something that is useless anyway...UNLESS THERE IS A PLAN!...lol....

 

Sure Iraq wants to de-dollarize.  I think its both an emotional issue to have full independence, but also an economic/fiscal issue in that they do not control dollars.   So sure they are concerned about the state of the dinar.  Nor do I suggest that the dinar is in any way "useless".  Clearly the economy is running pretty well on it right now.  If by scrapping the dinar, you mean redenominating, that really isn't scrapping it, its just a way of reducing their huge money supply.  After an RD they still have Iraqi dinars, just a lot less of them, each worth a lot more.  But it won't change the value of the Bremers.

[dontlop]

can you imagine if in the united states some people just started using something that isnt legal tender as legal tender .. then let its own little market determin its value and decree its value as valid with no records .. and then going and exchanging it in for real legal tender ..lol .ya thats gonna fly .

 

why not if its legal in iraq . it should be good tto go  in any country ..

 

i say they rv the swiss dinar  by a gazillion percent .. and the lopsters cant stand the truth .

[4aprofit]

With all this negativity...and this thing has'nt even been proven yet either way...(while some have actually had long term gains).....I think someone is wanting to buy dinars...you know folks, there is about the same spread going both ways, whether you buy or sell...I'm just not interested in selling...lol....

[Darin]

Sure, I don't dispute any of that.  But I don't see how that impacts the exchange rate.  

 

Just one caveat: They can only do what is possible. So, for example it is not possible to have a money supply valued at 75T USD (more than the money supply of the entire world) with a 100B USD economy. If you were speaking about investing in Iraqi companies or real estate etc, I'd say you are correct (that its high risk but might pay off well, though not in the 1000x range). But not for investments in their currency.

 

I don't know if they know, but why would they care?  None of those entities are in the business of preventing people from doing foolish things.  Companies that are investing in Iraq are not doing so based on an expected appreciation of the dinar, but of just doing business.

 

Well of course they can only do what is possible, but the question is what are the capable of doing? If the CBI was capable of amending their policies and saw benefits for doing so, you may see them do that.

 

In reality, each unit of IQD is 100% backed by liquid assets. If the USD was backed that way, the value of our currency would plummet.

[makecents]

last night you explained  the swiss dinar  didnt need any reserves to back it up ..that the reserves dont matter .. and being demonetized by the central bank  doesnt affect  its value .. you say it makes it stronger if its demonetized and  has nothing backing it up and isnt exchanged on any open market.. ya just float it .

I did not say it makes it stronger if it is demonetized (please stop making up stuff and claiming I said it). If you PEG your currency, then by definition you must offer that rate. That is why the reserves are important as Iraq pegs its currency to the dollar. If you float your currency then you can not set the exchange rate and are at the mercy of the whatever the market thinks its worth. Iraq wants to control the exchange rate for its currency so it continues to peg.

 

ya  you know the plans of iraq . they are going to be bound to the amount of reserves for eternity ..

No, I specially said I do not know what they will do, only what they CAN NOT do.

 

how is the exchange rate established ..?

 

 i was wondering why it has gone up in the past was it established  at .00086 100 years ago ?.. i wonder how it changed so many times  over the last hundred years ..

Since Iraq has always pegged, its due to the changing size of the money supply and their reserves.

[4aprofit]

Why have IMF documents as well as Iraqs MOP/Ministry of Planning...depicted that they want the IQD at or near our US Dollars value?

[makecents]

i say they rv the swiss dinar  by a gazillion percent .. and the lopsters cant stand the truth .

 

So where are the thousands or millions of Iraq billionaires or trillionaires?  If you are correct anyone holding even a few Swiss dinars would have made a huge fortune.

Why have IMF documents as well as Iraqs MOP/Ministry of Planning...depicted that they want the IQD at or near our US Dollars value?

 

Not sure.  But I'd guess its due to the fact that all the other countries in the region are in the same range, that the 000's are a reminder of the past, and to just ease accounting. From a purely economic point of view it isn't necessary as South Korea has demonstrated.

Edited March 18, 2013 by makecents