Federal indictment in Toledo of Dinar sellers

[Adam Montana]

Doctor Robbins-- Question- How is selling dinar illegal? How is selling currency illegal? So, I must prove to a currency seller that I am traveling to (within a reasonable amount of time) the country of which currency I am purchasing. I say--nope--won't ever happen. Their is no conviction here based on the dinar charges. Now, with that said--how these guys were advertising themselves does matter. If the feds can prove to the jury these guys falsely deciminated, advertised or coerced people into buying dinar--then they'll be in trouble on those charge also.

Agreed.

Selling dinar is not illegal.

Buying dinar is not illegal.

Having an opinion on Iraq's intentions or the future value of the dinar is not illegal.

Sharing that opinion is also not illegal!

But promising a return on investment, operating a hedge fund in violation of SEC regulations, making false statements about an "investment protection" act that doesn't exist in order to promote sales... those things are what will ultimately hang these people.

Oh, the blatant money laundering won't help them either.

[dontlop]

its not against the law to sell dinars ,,

only this one group of people ..did... misrepresent their investors .. they have it on taped conferance call recordings .. ..

they said your investment was guarenteed 90% return by a law from the united states government .. which it isnt

i just read alot of the indictment .. its link is posted earlier on this topic .. ,, they did some things they shouldnt of ..

and that is the definition of wire fraud .. doing it over the internet ..

..

they also took large sums of money and deposited it in banks in small amounts under 10,000 dollars to avoid govt reporting .. which i believe is money laubndering .. /.. yes the hedge funds that did not even exist generated over 700 grand is another big problem ..

but your right selling the iraqi dinar is not a crime

[RVPleaseToday]

The governments response to BH groups claims about the dinar blows big holes in a number of sacred "forum facts."

[easyrider]

Agreed.

Selling dinar is not illegal.

Buying dinar is not illegal.

Having an opinion on Iraq's intentions or the future value of the dinar is not illegal.

Sharing that opinion is also not illegal!

But promising a return on investment, operating a hedge fund in violation of SEC regulations, making false statements about an "investment protection" act that doesn't exist in order to promote sales... those things are what will ultimately hang these people.

Oh, the blatant money laundering won't help them either.

Exactly, if it was so illegal then they would shut down every single dinar dealer on the internet also not only that they wouldnt of thought about selling it at banks. Also we would all be in jail for owning dinar. Speculation is our right and opinion if the feds dont like it well too damn bad.

Edited December 27, 2012 by easyrider

[dontlop]

The governments response to BH groups claims about the dinar blows big holes in a number of sacred "forum facts."

wel the one that the us govt is holding 3.7 trillion dinars . is out the window ..

the indictment says that ..it says bh group made false claims that the u.s, govt is holding dinar .. and they govt (fbi) says that is fraud ... not true .. they must of been able to find out .. to make the charge that that was a lie

the reason why im saying .. fbi .. is they are the ones who did the raid ...

[RVPleaseToday]

Well, dontlop, the feds have access to actual information. As speculators, we are all trying to read tealeaves and garbled translations out of Iraq!

If only we had the same access!

[dontlop]

Well, dontlop, the feds have access to actual information. As speculators, we are all trying to read tealeaves and garbled translations out of Iraq! ;)/>

If only we had the same access!

i never saw anything that said the us govt held dinars .. the gurus were saying its under foriegn assets .. .. i never bought that one ,, but argueing that was like pulling teeth on a dog

[caz1104]

Shysters are presnt in EVERY industry. Should we condem all industries...................no. Go after & prosecute those that have broken the law,but don't tarnish all for the acts of a few-peace

[quadkidd1]

Over the last few years, I have bought some Dinar, I have sold some Dinar, and I have bought some more Dinar without any significant loss in the investment. While I have yet to make any of the glorified gains from this investment, the currency still has value. If one does not possess the common sense to brace for the possibility that it may not result in making you an overnight millionaire, then you have bigger problems than the Dinar. If I did not believe that this currency has the potential for a dramatic increase in value then I would definitely sell what I had and move on to something that looked more promising. It would be ridiculous to stay on the site and spend significant time and energy trying to convince the general population that the investment is doomed for failure. One would have to have another agenda aside from the intent to yield a profit from this investment to be the Debbie Downer every five minutes with negativity and gloom and despair, it does get a little tiring and for what purpose? Be negative and negative things will attract to your life, be positive and the chance of attracting what you desire will be a lot better.

Wow very well put!

I over the last year and a half have fenced with the nay sayers to no avail. They seem sadistic by nature. Somehow enjoying dashing others hope.

After all what is a world without hope?

I have heard the argument that " This is impossible and not ever going to happen"..............but have there not been many other occurrences in our lifetime deemed impossible? i.e. A man on the moon or any other number of events that took the world by surprise good or bad.

By nature some take the risks while others stay on the porch.

How many entrepreneurs threw caution to the wind ignoring "impossible odds" .

If you stay under shelter you may never enjoy the storm and witness the sunshine that follows! :twocents:/>

Quad B)/>

[nostradamus]

How about preventing people from getting ripped off about a mythical currency RV that is completely impossible and will never happen? Seems like a pretty legitimate purpose to me. There are entire websites and forums where people do NOTHING BUT debunk myths and scams and nonsense.

People like you rip on people for telling you the truth because you don't want to hear the truth, then you praise people for lying straight to your face, because you do want to hear it. What a rational mindset to have regarding an investment.

Your positive attitude will not change the outcome of the dinar one whit. Buying into scams and then "remaining positive" about them is not a way to enrich yourself. Being positive despite everything against you can be a good thing in many areas. Investments where one has zero influence over the outcome, is not one of them.

If you have lost a significant amount of money on this investment then I would like to hear how it happened. If this investment eventually returns a small profit or breaks even then it is not much of a scam. I just find it interesting how some people are out with such a vengeance to protect everyone from this investment and will use any argument possible to dissuade them. You better get busy cause there are a lot riskier investments out there and the general public needs to be protected against what it is that you think will possibly be a good or poor decision for them. I welcome the truth and will use my own knowledge and intelligence to figure out what that is. Simply put, you should mind your own business (and investments) before you start minding mine. Your version of the truth sounds like a black hole, I will stay with my positive thinking and let the nay sayers keep nay saying.

[caz1104]

Wow very well put!

I over the last year and a half have fenced with the nay sayers to no avail. They seem sadistic by nature. Somehow enjoying dashing others hope.

After all what is a world without hope?

I have heard the argument that " This is impossible and not ever going to happen"..............but have there not been many other occurrences in our lifetime deemed impossible? i.e. A man on the moon or any other number of events that took the world by surprise good or bad.

By nature some take the risks while others stay on the porch.

How many entrepreneurs threw caution to the wind ignoring "impossible odds" .

If you stay under shelter you may never enjoy the storm and witness the sunshine that follows! />

Quad />

If you have lost a significant amount of money on this investment then I would like to hear how it happened. If this investment eventually returns a small profit or breaks even then it is not much of a scam. I just find it interesting how some people are out with such a vengeance to protect everyone from this investment and will use any argument possible to dissuade them. You better get busy cause there are a lot riskier investments out there and the general public needs to be protected against what it is that you think will possibly be a good or poor decision for them. I welcome the truth and will use my own knowledge and intelligence to figure out what that is. Simply put, you should mind your own business (and investments) before you start minding mine. Your version of the truth sounds like a black hole, I will stay with my positive thinking and let the nay sayers keep nay saying.

Doctor Robbins-- Question- How is selling dinar illegal? How is selling currency illegal? So, I must prove to a currency seller that I am traveling to (within a reasonable amount of time) the country of which currency I am purchasing. I say--nope--won't ever happen. Their is no conviction here based on the dinar charges. Now, with that said--how these guys were advertising themselves does matter. If the feds can prove to the jury these guys falsely deciminated, advertised or coerced people into buying dinar--then they'll be in trouble on those charge also.

[snooz]

How about preventing people from getting ripped off about a mythical currency RV that is completely impossible and will never happen? Seems like a pretty legitimate purpose to me. There are entire websites and forums where people do NOTHING BUT debunk myths and scams and nonsense.

People like you rip on people for telling you the truth because you don't want to hear the truth, then you praise people for lying straight to your face, because you do want to hear it. What a rational mindset to have regarding an investment.

Your positive attitude will not change the outcome of the dinar one whit. Buying into scams and then "remaining positive" about them is not a way to enrich yourself. Being positive despite everything against you can be a good thing in many areas. Investments where one has zero influence over the outcome, is not one of them.

Stay away.!!! Your boat as no padle and its in the midle of the sea, Good luck pal...

[truthful1]

Wow very well put!

I over the last year and a half have fenced with the nay sayers to no avail. They seem sadistic by nature. Somehow enjoying dashing others hope.

After all what is a world without hope?

I have heard the argument that " This is impossible and not ever going to happen"..............but have there not been many other occurrences in our lifetime deemed impossible? i.e. A man on the moon or any other number of events that took the world by surprise good or bad.

By nature some take the risks while others stay on the porch.

How many entrepreneurs threw caution to the wind ignoring "impossible odds" .

If you stay under shelter you may never enjoy the storm and witness the sunshine that follows! :twocents:/>/>/>

Quad B)/>/>/>

Quad...you have every right to your own brand of speculation and that should be respected. But you must admit.....its like looking for santa claus. your dreaming for something that is economically impossible. so dont get upset if your asked a question.

there is a reality of life, stats, data, historic precedence, and parameters that exist. Many people have to look at this investment from that reality of what mankind has learned throughout our existence.

There is also the land of dreams, hopes, and wishes where we can speculate our dreams of being rich from the dinars revaluation. some life in both worlds......and some in one or the other. dont feel offended when people present reality that defeats your dreams vision. look at it....ignore it....counter it.......debate it......but dont take it personal.

its kind of funny.....some expect the easter bunny.....but get so defensive when someone says......why? Explain to me how that works?

Edited December 27, 2012 by truthful1

[Lester1962]

Individuals are indicted daily. It's a legal process. At the end of the day the defendant is represented by their defense team and it is up to the prosecution to prove up their case. The prosecution carries the burden. I've studied law in my life. I know how due process works. An indictment is not bothersome, unless one is guilty of the crime that they are being charged with.

I'm a lawyer, no offense but your statements are just plain wrong. Federal indictment is the end of your world, especially RICO. Your life is never the same even if you are found not guilty which happens about 3% of the time in a federal case with FBIes doing the investigation.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Lester1962

[quadkidd1]

Quad...you have every right to your own brand of speculation and that should be respected. But you must admit.....its like looking for santa claus. your dreaming for something that is economically impossible. so dont get upset if your asked a question.

there is a reality of life, stats, data, historic precedence, and parameters that exist. Many people have to look at this investment from that reality.

There is also the land of dreams, hopes, and wishes where we can speculate our dreams of being rich from the dinars revaluation.

some life in both worlds......and some in one or the other. dont feel offended when people present reality that defeats your dreams vision. look at it....ignore it....counter it.......debate it......but dont take it personal.

I tried to give somewhat of a generic version of hope and never exclaimed I was a part of the Millionaire Prosperity Club......... But I am not writing off anything. I do have a sense of realty here with high and low expectations. In other words I am not hanging on the GURU mentality. It is sort of a lottery ticket for me and yes I am hopeful of a nice return. Who knows how this will turn out.... There is a ton of misinformation flying and I refuse to believe the Intel / info that comes out of Iraq. The one thing that DOES intrigue me is why all the contradiction in the media if they aren't trying to conceal something? Why bother if this is simply a neutral event to unfold. Now that IS the "MILLION DOLLAR " question in my mind. I appreciate your thoughtful response and enjoy the opinion you share!

Quad

[truthful1]

I tried to give somewhat of a generic version of hope and never exclaimed I was a part of the Millionaire Prosperity Club......... But I am not writing off anything. I do have a sense of realty here with high and low expectations. In other words I am not hanging on the GURU mentality. It is sort of a lottery ticket for me and yes I am hopeful of a nice return. Who knows how this will turn out.... There is a ton of misinformation flying and I refuse to believe the Intel / info that comes out of Iraq. The one thing that DOES intrigue me is why all the contradiction in the media if they aren't trying to conceal something? Why bother if this is simply a neutral event to unfold. Now that IS the "MILLION DOLLAR " question in my mind. I appreciate your thoughtful response and enjoy the opinion you share!

Quad B)/>/>

Im in the same boat as you. some things dont add up. I guess thats what we are counting on. thanks for the response and happy holidays.

Edited December 27, 2012 by truthful1

[caz1104]

Quad...you have every right to your own brand of speculation and that should be respected. But you must admit.....its like looking for santa claus. your dreaming for something that is economically impossible. so dont get upset if your asked a question.

there is a reality of life, stats, data, historic precedence, and parameters that exist. Many people have to look at this investment from that reality of what mankind has learned throughout our existence.

There is also the land of dreams, hopes, and wishes where we can speculate our dreams of being rich from the dinars revaluation. some life in both worlds......and some in one or the other. dont feel offended when people present reality that defeats your dreams vision. look at it....ignore it....counter it.......debate it......but dont take it personal.

its kind of funny.....some expect the easter bunny.....but get so defensive when someone says......why? Explain to me how that works?

"there is a reality of life,stats,data,historic precedence,and parameters that exist. Many people have to look at this investment from that realityof what mankind has learned throughout our existence" ....................................countries & people have been doing exactly what you stated above with differing results. Example:with all the great economic minds throughout the world why is it that so many countries are in dire financial circumstances? Of course there are many answers Another example: Patriots vs Giants in the SuperBowl - The Patriots were undefeated,and had basicaly B*tch Slapped all oponents INCLUDING the Giants. They were heavily favored based on all they had accomplished........................and LOST. Historic 1st's happen regularly of course some believe in the "groundhog" philosophy and thats cool. Also,THINGS are created by those that dream and have vision. Are you correct with your assesment...........................maybe. Do views have to be countered,debated...................only for those that feel to do so. Acceptance of ones view does'nt need to be debated,& I find the opposite argument totaly flawed. You may need to have ones view explained to better understand but in some instances thats on you. I owe no one an explanation of my views nor do you imo. If you don't agree with me so be it,not the 1st, won't be the last.The same can be said for every living sole.In closing tomorrow is a NEW day is said for a reason,where anything is possibleand imo it is true. And NO historic precedence is available to change this. No feelings were hurt in the making of this post-peace.

[doctor robbins]

Doctor Robbins-- Question- How is selling dinar illegal? How is selling currency illegal? So, I must prove to a currency seller that I am traveling to (within a reasonable amount of time) the country of which currency I am purchasing. I say--nope--won't ever happen. Their is no conviction here based on the dinar charges. Now, with that said--how these guys were advertising themselves does matter. If the feds can prove to the jury these guys falsely deciminated, advertised or coerced people into buying dinar--then they'll be in trouble on those charge also.

I didn't say that selling dinar is illegal. It's how you market it that determines the legality or lack thereof. Nor did I say that you have to prove anything as a purchaser. The point I addressed was the misrepresentation of the CBI's proposal to remove the zeros. The BH Group along with many other gurus have presented this proposal as a revaluation that will make people rich, rather than a re-denomination that will produce no profits for the investor. Dinar dealers are mostly registered as money service providers, and as such they are in legal jeopardy if they suggest anything at all regarding the future value of the dinar. A money service provider is there to convert currency for whatever reason, the most common being travel. They are not there to sell currency as an investment which the BG Group was obviously doing and fraudulently so. It remains to be seen whether they'll be convicted on the fraud charges, but as another member pointed out the vast majority of these charges do end in conviction as the prosecution has thoroughly considered the charges and the evidence in question prior to filing.

[dontlop]

ya ..well why did all those fbi guys go buy millions of dinars ..huh ..huh // !!!! answer that one chump.

pass that around .. ... the fbi owns trillions of dinar now .. before brad heubner and the bh group ,, they had no idea what was going on in iaq.. now they sleep in billions of dinars stuffed in thier pillows and mattresses

their gonna be rich when it rvs

[dontlop]

when i bought my dinars .. it wasnt because some person talked me into it .. thats rediculous

i read about the dinars in many different forums and places before i decided to buy my dinars .. ..

then i looked around for the best deal ..

i guess if i would of stumbled across bh group and found the best deal there .. the fbi would be sueing the bh group and saying the bh group sold me dinars fraudulantly ,,because they said something that wasnt true ..on their phone conversations ..

those taped phone thingys were a place for people to call in and speak their minds and ask questions .. no one actually knew the truth about what was going to happen.. even shabibi said if he was going to rv .. he couldnt tell us .. it would be a secret .. thats what started all the rumers

it wasnt an advertisement .. it was entertainment...

i think ill call the fbi and tell them i want my couple thousand dollars worth of dinars i bought from bh group off the list of fraudulant sales .. because i never even heard those things from the bh group .. but i did buy my dinars there .. but only because it was the best deal i could find at the time ..

you know ....just to strir things up a little B)/>/>

Edited December 28, 2012 by dontlop

[RVPleaseToday]

dontlop, the BH group was peddling Dinar by making statements as fact that were not true. That's called fraud. I'm not sure why you would defend fraud.

[dontlop]

everyone was running their mouths about the dinar over the past 10 year .. and at first because of the speculation in the dinar community .. some bad so called facts were accepted by lots of people as fact .. now alot of doubt has been shed on it .. i guess they can go back and trace the internet and find alot of conspiracy charges .. on thousands of people ....

but i i know that all the people who bought their dinars before the bh group had the money to have those conferance calls .. not advertisements .. but conferance calls .. they bought those dinars before .. those statements were made .

doctor robbys explaination was probably the best one .. as a currency dealer ./. they have certain guidlines they must follow ... but theres alot of speculation that misled alot of dinar investors .. i dont think they are the god fathers of all the rumors that were floating around .. they just didnt understand the guidlines they had to follow as a dealer ..

and the fbi pounced on them..

the part about money laundering .. that sounds like something i would of done ..i wouldnt of wanted the govt to be informed when i was making my deposits either .. it sounds like they didnt want to pay taxes or have some of their transactions on record .. under the table .. for tax purposes.

the hedge fund part was most likely .. the brain storm of one of those people .. and the others were ignorant .. and the one talked them into it .. i think the hedge fund fraud will fall mostly on one person ..

we alll fell for the bull crap surrounding the dinar .. and as it all unfolded .. ,, we all want to blame someone for our ignorance .... .. when its all over is everyone going to looking to sue ..i know im not .. i bought this hook line and sinker .. not because of the dealers advertisements .. but because of the people who also bought this .. the dealers were only providing the dinars ... i guess competition and huebner ..being ignorant on some laws as to where he wasnt allowed to speculate and pass around his bull crap is why he ended up being made an example

we still do not know a date and rate ..

those conferance calls that still go on by people who are not dealers .. are what fraud ? ... or just ignorant people .

they sound ignorant to me ... but they in my opinion are just spreading good will in their minds

i dont know all the facts .. but i might make a call to their attorney and explain my view on how and why i bought my dinars

all those people did not buy their dinars because of a statement in a conferance call

everyone had a sales pitch .. although worded differently . by saying things like ,, "some. say this will rv .."..

or "people are saying look at how kuwait rved "

or look at germanys currency history "

or this and that .. but they just used their wording carfully . to circum=vent the laws

[RVPleaseToday]

dontlop, you can say anything you want in a Dinar forum. But if you are selling Dinar, you legally must tell the truth. All the BH group principals had to do to know they were not telling the truth was use google. You can read EO 13303 online and easily see it has nothing to do with currency investments. You would find out that there is no such thing as the investment protection act they touted as fact. They clearly had no idea if the UST held Dinar, yet they stated as fact that they did, repeatedly.

Their absolute defense against the government's accusations is the truth. The only way they can defend themselves is to prove that the UST holds trillions of Dinar, that EO 13303 protects currency investors, that the investor protection act they said existed, actually did. Otherwise, they are going to prison. It's pretty simple.

Edited December 28, 2012 by RVPleaseToday

[dontlop]

you know what i think ..

i think another dealer saw a bunch of dinar dollars being lost to them ..

so they turned him in .. just to get rid of the competition

the other dealers just hired some okie charactor to go on the internet and do it for them ..