Money Laundering/Counterfeiting?

[zaborniake]

So we've all seen the articles on the RV/D which mention money laundering and counterfeiting as a fear which would cause significant damage to the economy. Now, these are opinions, but can anyone explain the logic behind these fears?

We know the currency is one of the most sophisticated in the world. Anyone with dinar has seen the security features. Are they worried people will try to counterfeit these new lowers? Where is this money supposedly being laundered to? If they lop the three zeros, why the concern with these illegal currency transactions?

Even if someone had pallets of $25K notes, post lop they'd only be worth 1/1000 at a 1:1 exchange. Not nearly as big a deal if they were a straight 1:1 RV. I don't see the argument.

Any ideas?

[one2one]

lop the zeroes means .00086 [ current IQD value ]

becomes .86 [ new value ]

they can't remove zeroes from existing currency

[lightfighter]

Also used as a good sales pitch on why to buy from certain distributors . Guarantee Authentic, I spent more.

[keepmwlknfny]

Well they do have people counterfieting bills already.....they do turn up and with a value of 23 dollars for a 25k note, its no different then people making fake 20 dollar bills....the fakes will still have some value to them if your able to use them.

The problem they are seeing is that even in the event of a redenomination, its possible to see a lot of those fakes actually exchanged for newer denoms....and you are creating and putting more money into the system for free! Or think about the corruption that could turn up, being that insiders of the CBI could take the old dinars, give them to someone and have them exchanged again! And once you create that money its a done deal....

[rulesforrebels]

Also used as a good sales pitch on why to buy from certain distributors . Guarantee Authentic, I spent more.

I totally agree with you, buy here and pay an extra $200 because we will give you a certificate of authenticity that is only good for 30 days and that doesn't tie my particular notes to a particular certificate. It's a sales gimmick if you ask me.

Well they do have people counterfieting bills already.....they do turn up and with a value of 23 dollars for a 25k note, its no different then people making fake 20 dollar bills....the fakes will still have some value to them if your able to use them.

The problem they are seeing is that even in the event of a redenomination, its possible to see a lot of those fakes actually exchanged for newer denoms....and you are creating and putting more money into the system for free! Or think about the corruption that could turn up, being that insiders of the CBI could take the old dinars, give them to someone and have them exchanged again! And once you create that money its a done deal....

I've seen a few posts of people claiming there's fakes floating around but never actually seen a link or article to back it up. Also, everything I've heard about counterfit stories have been smaller notes. I don't know this for a fact as I only own 25k, 10k and 5k however I would imagine like the US DOllar lower notes in Iraq have less security features than higher notes same way that 100 USD notes have more features than $1.

I don't think counterfitting is a significant problem. Iraqi DInar if I'm not mistaken is like the top 5 currenices in the world in terms of anti counterfitting measures, security features, etc. It's also one of the most worthless currencies behind Vietnam, Korea, and a hanful of others. Why would someone put all the time and effort into counterfitting a very hard to counterfit currency not worth much when they could go counterfit brazilian reals or some other south american currencies that are almost 1:1 with teh dollar and a whole heck of a lot easier to counterfit? just doesn't make fiscal sense to do so imho

[zigmeister]

[

quote name='rulesforrebels' date='25 February 2012 - 06:41 PM' timestamp='1330216886' post='869896]

I totally agree with you, buy here and pay an extra $200 because we will give you a certificate of authenticity that is only good for 30 days and that doesn't tie my particular notes to a particular certificate. It's a sales gimmick if you ask me.

I've seen a few posts of people claiming there's fakes floating around but never actually seen a link or article to back it up. Also, everything I've heard about counterfit stories have been smaller notes. I don't know this for a fact as I only own 25k, 10k and 5k however I would imagine like the US DOllar lower notes in Iraq have less security features than higher notes same way that 100 USD notes have more features than $1.

I don't think counterfitting is a significant problem. Iraqi DInar if I'm not mistaken is like the top 5 currenices in the world in terms of anti counterfitting measures, security features, etc. It's also one of the most worthless currencies behind Vietnam, Korea, and a hanful of others. Why would someone put all the time and effort into counterfitting a very hard to counterfit currency not worth much when they could go counterfit brazilian reals or some other south american currencies that are almost 1:1 with teh dollar and a whole heck of a lot easier to counterfit? just doesn't make fiscal sense to do so imho

Al-Qaeda Believed to be Behind Iraqi Dinar Racket

Posted on 22 February 2012. Tags: counterfeiting, dinar, IQD, iraqi dinar

Found this to be interesting. Found on Iraq new information site.

AKnews reports that businesses and currency traders are rejecting 10,000 dinar notes because of rumours about the increasing spread of counterfeit currency.

Government sources said last year that an estimated 7 billion dinars worth of forged 10,000 notes came into Iraq from Iran.

The fake currency is said to is said to be of high quality and very difficult to detect.

Abdul Hussein Abtan, a ‬member of the Economic Committee in the House of Representatives told AKnews: “These rumors coincided with central bank measures to increase the exchange rate of the dinar against the dollar. This relentless campaign is intended to weaken the Iraqi currency.”

Fouad al-Bayati, a specialist in security affairs, believes that al-Qaeda are involved in counterfeiting the currency.

“The security forces are hunting insurgents and forgetting about the fraud gangs associated with them, which are key financiers for insurgency … Some armed groups still have hidden administrative wings to carry out duties in the economic sector, most notably money laundering as well as falsifying identities and official documents.”

It is hoped that the introduction of the new currency, with three zeroes removed, will help the fight against fraudsters as it will replace the old currency and is said to be more difficult to counterfeit.

My link

Here is one.

[HopefulTxn]

I've seen a few posts of people claiming there's fakes floating around but never actually seen a link or article to back it up. Also, everything I've heard about counterfit stories have been smaller notes. I don't know this for a fact as I only own 25k, 10k and 5k however I would imagine like the US DOllar lower notes in Iraq have less security features than higher notes same way that 100 USD notes have more features than $1.

I don't think counterfitting is a significant problem. Iraqi DInar if I'm not mistaken is like the top 5 currenices in the world in terms of anti counterfitting measures, security features, etc. It's also one of the most worthless currencies behind Vietnam, Korea, and a hanful of others. Why would someone put all the time and effort into counterfitting a very hard to counterfit currency not worth much when they could go counterfit brazilian reals or some other south american currencies that are almost 1:1 with teh dollar and a whole heck of a lot easier to counterfit? just doesn't make fiscal sense to do so imho

There are about 20 currencies worth less per unit than the Iraqi dinar... According to this SITE counterfeiting of currency is a problem in Vietnam, Uganda and searches on counties like Somalia, Indonesia and Paraguay, all of which have lower valued currencies than Iraq, have problems with the counterfeiting of their domestic currency.

As long as it is a profitable enterprise, especially when done in bulk, there will always be a problem with counterfeiting... It doesn't matter what the currency value is to the USD, if there is a profit to be made there will be people or groups of people that will do it in order to obtain that profit...

[rulesforrebels]

There are about 20 currencies worth less per unit than the Iraqi dinar... According to this SITE counterfeiting of currency is a problem in Vietnam, Uganda and searches on counties like Somalia, Indonesia and Paraguay, all of which have lower valued currencies than Iraq, have problems with the counterfeiting of their domestic currency.

As long as it is a profitable enterprise, especially when done in bulk, there will always be a problem with counterfeiting... It doesn't matter what the currency value is to the USD, if there is a profit to be made there will be people or groups of people that will do it in order to obtain that profit...

I suppose technically you are right but I was speaking of currencies that are actually traded in banks, at currency exchanges, countries people have actually heard of lol. Indonesia, Vietnam, Paraguay, heck I'd even say Cambodia are legit countries worth less than the dinar but the rest are Somalia, is Somalia even a real country right now or just a war torn crazy land? Some others weaker than Iraq are Sierra Leone, Zambia, Belarus, Uganda, Iran, Heck a good % of the countries are contries it's illega for us to even do business with or trade money with.

I suppose I don't doubt that a counterfit of a Iraqi bill has been made, I still don't believe it's a significant problem nor do I believ the notes are actually believeable fakes. It just doesn't make sense that someoen will try to fake all those very difficult security features to have to make so many notes to get the same amount of money they could counterfit something like Peruvien Nuevo Sols which are like wrinkled old paper with no worthwhile security featurees and is 2.68 to 1 with teh dollar vs iraqi dinar which is filled with security measures and is 1165.50 to 1 with the dollar. Just doesn't make sense.

Edited February 26, 2012 by rulesforrebels

[zigmeister]

I suppose technically you are right but I was speaking of currencies that are actually traded in banks, at currency exchanges, countries people have actually heard of lol. Indonesia, Vietnam, Paraguay, heck I'd even say Cambodia are legit countries worth less than the dinar but the rest are Somalia, is Somalia even a real country right now or just a war torn crazy land? Some others weaker than Iraq are Sierra Leone, Zambia, Belarus, Uganda, Iran, Heck a good % of the countries are contries it's illega for us to even do business with or trade money with.

I suppose I don't doubt that a counterfit of a Iraqi bill has been made, I still don't believe it's a significant problem nor do I believ the notes are actually believeable fakes. It just doesn't make sense that someoen will try to fake all those very difficult security features to have to make so many notes to get the same amount of money they could counterfit something like Peruvien Nuevo Sols which are like wrinkled old paper with no worthwhile security featurees and is 2.68 to 1 with teh dollar vs iraqi dinar which is filled with security measures and is 1165.50 to 1 with the dollar. Just doesn't make sense.

They would if they could bring a country down. It may not all be about cash, it may be more of a political move.

[keepmwlknfny]

I suppose technically you are right but I was speaking of currencies that are actually traded in banks, at currency exchanges, countries people have actually heard of lol. Indonesia, Vietnam, Paraguay, heck I'd even say Cambodia are legit countries worth less than the dinar but the rest are Somalia, is Somalia even a real country right now or just a war torn crazy land? Some others weaker than Iraq are Sierra Leone, Zambia, Belarus, Uganda, Iran, Heck a good % of the countries are contries it's illega for us to even do business with or trade money with.

I suppose I don't doubt that a counterfit of a Iraqi bill has been made, I still don't believe it's a significant problem nor do I believ the notes are actually believeable fakes. It just doesn't make sense that someoen will try to fake all those very difficult security features to have to make so many notes to get the same amount of money they could counterfit something like Peruvien Nuevo Sols which are like wrinkled old paper with no worthwhile security featurees and is 2.68 to 1 with teh dollar vs iraqi dinar which is filled with security measures and is 1165.50 to 1 with the dollar. Just doesn't make sense.

Think about it like this....its no different from here in the states really....the most counterfeited bill here in the states is the $20 bill.....our bills have a lot of security features on it too but it still carries value....not to mention making fake 20s are probly easier to pass because its a lower valued bill vs trying to pass 100 dollar bills because those are more likely to be checked and verified before being accepted....

Regardless of how low the value of the dinar is, the bills themselves do carry some value and if your making mass amounts of them, it adds up! You think all Iraqis are standing around with black lights and pens and such to verify all bills being accepted? LOL Its probly terribly easy to float fakes through the market....

[rulesforrebels]

They would if they could bring a country down. It may not all be about cash, it may be more of a political move.

You bring up an interesting point. WHen I have bought and buy DInar I'm never really that concerned about getting counterfit notes and it's easy enough to check them out.

That said I never really was worried about some average joe counterfitting notes so much as a scenario like you said where high up government corruption or in an attempt to drag the country down people try to flood the market with money, make it not worth anything, make people not have faith in the currency and/or country, etc. I don't really know much myself but think I have heard people say its actually the british who made the notes or something so not sure if this is possible but any coutnerfitting i would think may happen would be something where high up gov corruption plates or legit currency security features somehow find their way into the wrong hands. that would be what i would think would happen if anything were to happen. not some ave joe in iraqi printing bills in his living room.

obviously all speculation and assumptions on my part here but just what im thinking

Think about it like this....its no different from here in the states really....the most counterfeited bill here in the states is the $20 bill.....our bills have a lot of security features on it too but it still carries value....not to mention making fake 20s are probly easier to pass because its a lower valued bill vs trying to pass 100 dollar bills because those are more likely to be checked and verified before being accepted....

Regardless of how low the value of the dinar is, the bills themselves do carry some value and if your making mass amounts of them, it adds up! You think all Iraqis are standing around with black lights and pens and such to verify all bills being accepted? LOL Its probly terribly easy to float fakes through the market....

kind of off topic but kind of interesting. a while back i was working retail and had an old $100 bill which you dont see many of anymore you know the ones w/o the big faces. anyhow, happenned to run a counterfit pen over the note after i found it in my drawer and it turned black.

wound up checking with my manager and he said call the secret service called them explained the note over the phone gave a bunch of info but didn't really know who gave it to us. wound up sending it in to them. few weeks later get the note back in the mail with a note saying its legit. i guess notes before a certain date i guess some time in the 60's were made iwth a paper that didnt react the same way with pens as the current notes do.

like i said has nothing to do with this current discussion topic just thought it was kind of interesting.

[HopefulTxn]

I suppose technically you are right but I was speaking of currencies that are actually traded in banks, at currency exchanges, countries people have actually heard of lol. Indonesia, Vietnam, Paraguay, heck I'd even say Cambodia are legit countries worth less than the dinar but the rest are Somalia, is Somalia even a real country right now or just a war torn crazy land? Some others weaker than Iraq are Sierra Leone, Zambia, Belarus, Uganda, Iran, Heck a good % of the countries are contries it's illega for us to even do business with or trade money with.

I suppose I don't doubt that a counterfit of a Iraqi bill has been made, I still don't believe it's a significant problem nor do I believ the notes are actually believeable fakes. It just doesn't make sense that someoen will try to fake all those very difficult security features to have to make so many notes to get the same amount of money they could counterfit something like Peruvien Nuevo Sols which are like wrinkled old paper with no worthwhile security featurees and is 2.68 to 1 with teh dollar vs iraqi dinar which is filled with security measures and is 1165.50 to 1 with the dollar. Just doesn't make sense.

Not sure you read the link that zigmeister posted, but here's an excerpt:

The entry of 7 billion dinars worth of forged 10,000 notes into Iraq from Iran, was announced by government sources last year.

The fake currency is said to be a very close match to the original by 90%, and many traders have complained about the difficulty in distinguishing between the real article and the counterfeits.

7 billion dinars is a lot of notes, at 10,000 dinar per note that is 700 million notes that they know of. How many more that they don't know of?

Not sure what you mean about Peruvien Nuevo Sols having 'no worthwhile security features', since they have a watermark, security thread, micro impressions as well as color shifting ink. Yet, even with all of those security features it is stated to be a highly counterfeited note.

Plus, like zigmeister stated, there are other reasons for counterfeiting other than just to make a profit.

A little off topic, but I about fell on the floor laughing when I saw the story about the guy in California that was counterfeiting the newer US currencies and defeating the 'counterfeit detector pen' by spraying the notes with a cheap can of hairspray...

[rulesforrebels]

Not sure you read the link that zigmeister posted, but here's an excerpt:

The entry of 7 billion dinars worth of forged 10,000 notes into Iraq from Iran, was announced by government sources last year.

The fake currency is said to be a very close match to the original by 90%, and many traders have complained about the difficulty in distinguishing between the real article and the counterfeits.

7 billion dinars is a lot of notes, at 10,000 dinar per note that is 700 million notes that they know of. How many more that they don't know of?

Not sure what you mean about Peruvien Nuevo Sols having 'no worthwhile security features', since they have a watermark, security thread, micro impressions as well as color shifting ink. Yet, even with all of those security features it is stated to be a highly counterfeited note.

Plus, like zigmeister stated, there are other reasons for counterfeiting other than just to make a profit.

A little off topic, but I about fell on the floor laughing when I saw the story about the guy in California that was counterfeiting the newer US currencies and defeating the 'counterfeit detector pen' by spraying the notes with a cheap can of hairspray...

Ya i think i saw about the hairspray thing on one of those secret service files shows on disc channel. Maybe im wrong bout peru but there are a handful of s american countries who arent far off of the dollar in exchange rates but whos notes are basically just plain paper. Also many of these countries i think have tecently switched to newer notes/bills but they still havnt outmoded the old ones so the less secure are still widely used. Heck even mexico has like 2 seperate notes for 20, 50, 100,200, and 500 out now the new ones of the 20 and 50 being plastic or polymer and the old ones being oaper. Oddly enougtho they do look secure the larger notes are not polymer tho they do look secure. Wierd tho tjat 20 and 50 would b polymer and bigger not tho i guess maybe thats more about prolonging the life of the bill vs security