GT5Junkie

The phrase "deleting the zeros" = LOP. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. In a different article they refer to what Turkey and Brazil did as deleting the zeros. I know the gurus and pumpers have tried to distort this phrase to mean something else, but the truth is out there. Delete the zeros = LOP. Period.

Sorry, but I'm just not seeing it. Like I said, I know the gurus have spun the "delete/lift/remove the zero" articles as a GOOD thing. Again, as I've pointed out, in this article they're using the same phrase to refer to what Turkey did and then also applying it to their own currency. I really don't see how anyone can spin this article as being about an RV, and a good thing. Here's the quotes: Same exact phrase (deleting three zeros) applied to both Turkey and Iraq. I really don't see any ambiguity here, or how this could be spun to mean an RV. Yet BL completely ignores those statements and says this is an "awesome article." In addition to the above quotes, which really make it blatantly obvious they're talking about a LOP, I think this is the key quote in the entire article: The first thing to notice is "many countries already...go through such experience." Many countries HAVE gone through LOPs. I think it's 49 the last time I checked. How many countries have gone through a 1000x value RV? Pretty sure it's zero. They wouldn't say that many other countries have already done it if they were talking about a huge RV, because that would be a complete lie. Kuwait didn't even do it (COMPLETELY different circumstances, as everyone should be aware of), and that's not many countries, that's one country, and they're not mentioning Kuwait, they're mentioning Turkey and Brazil. Second, "has taken measures capable of maintaining the real value of cash Btabath ancient and modern." "Ancient" and "modern" cash here pretty obviously refers to new and old dinar. In a LOP you have a new currency, and an old currency, with separate values per unit. Obviously when you LOP you need to make sure people are actually treating the exchange rate as they're supposed to, e.g. a 25,000 note has the exact same value as a 25 note. You don't want shop owners that decide they don't want to deal with the old currency and therefore don't give the proper exchange rate or value to it. Or vice versa, maybe they're worried people won't be as confident that the new 25 note really is worth the same as the old 25,000 note, and shop owners will try and shortchange people there. Either way, it's obviously a real possibility. It isn't really a possibility with an RV, because with an RV you don't have two completely distinct sets of currency, both with different values per unit. In an RV a dinar is still a dinar, it's just worth more, so I really don't see why they would be concerned about people treating new lower denoms differently than higher denoms. They're both still the same currency, they're both still dinar. Third, "while stability of the edition of modern Turkey, Brazil and many countries of the world have experienced deleting three zeros." Turkey is doing quite well. Their currency is pretty stable, just look at the chart: http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=tu&v=71 They LOPd in 2004. Since then, inflation is pretty stable and much lower than it was prior to the LOP. People keep saying that they're giving Turkey as an example of what NOT to do, because the LOP was horrible for Turkey, and that just isn't true. I'm not sure if Turkey has gotten any money from the IMF after their LOP, but I do KNOW that they were getting bailed out by the IMF PRIOR to their LOP. They got bailed out in 2001 by the IMF, so even if they did get some help from them afterwards, it isn't an indictment of their LOP process, it's just a carry over from all the economic problems that existed before the LOP. What isn't disputable is that they're doing pretty well now. Their inflation rate is in check, their GDP is strong compared to Iraqs, their per capita is way better than Iraqs (the 2009 figures put it at well over 2x Iraqs, and the 2010 figures I've seen put it at over 3x Iraqs). They're doing well. The horrible, horrible LOP that everyone (on the dinar sites) says is a terrible idea and never works, worked. Either this article is bad (LOP) news, or it's "smoke and mirrors." I don't really see how there can be any other interpretation of it. If it's a LOP article, BL completely ignores the LOP aspect of it. If it's smoke and mirrors, why is BL spending any time on it at all?

http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=tu&v=71 http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=iz&v=71

From where I'm standing, they're not attempting an impartial, unbiased interpretation of the news. They're trying to spin the news so that every news article looks like evidence for a huge RV. And judging from the posts in this thread, it's working. Source?

How is Turkey a failure? Their GDP is 6x Iraqs and their per capita is over 2x Iraqs.

Do you have a source on what the IMF did to save Turkey after they lopped? You've got an article here that says they're deleting zeros from their currency, and also talks about how Turkey deleted their zeros. I know the gurus have (with zero real reasoning or evidence, from what I've seen) tried to explain this away by saying it's a translation problem and they actually mean that they're removing the triple zero notes from circulation, or deleting zeros from the exchange rate. Considering in this article they use the exact same phrase to refer to both their currency, and to what Turkey did, how can the gurus continue to rationalize that position? They say they are deleting their zeros. They say Turkey deleted their zeros. Why would they use the exact same phrase to refer to both a LOP and an RV?

Then why are they mentioned? How do you know that's what they're doing? Do you think your statement applies to all "gurus"? If not, why some, but not all?

Interesting that she doesn't consider the fact that they mention both Turkey and Brazil (both of which lopped) important.

Buying currency isn't a scam, but 40% spreads and guys like Okie saying you're going to be a millionaire every single day? Sounds pretty scammy to me. It isn't that the currency is a scam, it's how it's presented that's a scam.

I don't really understand why people like Breitling so much. It's the same guru stuff in a slightly different package. He says he's only going off what the CBI has said. First of all, from what I've seen, it looks like the CBI is saying LOP. Second of all, even if you don't believe or ignore that, he says "they want to get it to equal a dollar." Well, guess what, 3 digit LOP and it's a real small RV to get it to a dollar. They can get it to a dollar either way. "The ministry of planning says the nominal value will be 1.17." That doesn't even make sense. Either he doesn't understand what nominal means, or he is consciously trying to mislead people. Nominal does mean exchange rate. It means face value. This isn't subject to debate, you can look up the definition. Saying that they want to have a nominal value of 1.17 would mean they actually want a bill that says it's worth 1.17 dinar. Not 1 dinar, not 5 dinar, not 2 dinar, but 1.17 dinar. Can you imagine people trying to make change with a 1.17 dinar bill? It makes no sense. Obviously they DO NOT want a bill with a nominal value of 1.17. He either fell for some other gurus lies about what nominal means, or he's intentionally spreading them himself. That's just in the first minute. "The more dinar you have the less of a risk it will be." Lol, come on. More investment = more risk, not less. This is just plain common sense. If it LOPs and RVs to a dollar most people are going to lose money due to spread. If you have more dinar, you're gonna lose, you guessed it, more money. "They're still going to go up to 5 dollars one of these days." Really? Iraq is going to have an M2 of 300 trillion USD? Uh huh. Okay, Okie Jr. "[LOP] doesn't work" Then why do so many countries do it? It does work. China LOPd. You think China isn't an economic powerhouse? Look at their GDP. What are Breitlings qualifications that he knows better about currencies and finances on a country to country level better than the brightest minds in the countries themselves? Does he think everyone in China is stupid? Everyone in Turkey? Everyone in all the other countries that have LOPd? "Look at Turkey...these are scams." Scam? How is it a scam? You have a 1000000 note worth 1 USD that'll buy a loaf of bread. You end up with a 1 note worth 1 USD that'll buy a loaf of bread. Where is the scam? "The people of Turkey are sitting around, they're poor, they don't know what to do." Turkey has a GDP of 616 billion (and that's 2009, probably gone up) and a population of 75 million, for a per capita of $8200. Iraq has a GDP of around 100 billion and a population of 32 million, for a per capita of $3100. Who are the poor ones, again? Breitling is the same nonsense in a different wrapper.

Because they have an M2 of 60 trillion and a GDP of 100 billion.

I think they COULD, I just don't think they WOULD, and there definitely seems to be zero evidence that they ARE. Well, not to 1 USD per dinar, in order to do that they'd have to destroy so many notes (and other M2 components, bank accounts, etc) that they'd essentially have nothing at all in circulation, but they could maybe take enough off their M2 to increase the value of their currency by 20 or 30%. If they're taking in dinar and either vaulting it or destroying it, it should be coming off their M1 and M2, which according to the CBI, it isn't. In fact, it seems like they're doing the exact opposite. Since 2004ish, as their economy and GDP have gotten back on their feet, instead of allowing their currency value to increase, they've been printing more of it in order to keep the value at the same level.

You can assume the CBI is lying about their M2, but there isn't any evidence for it that I've seen, so it would seem like thinking they're off by a factor of 10 is mere dreaming. I've seen a lot of people (and I'm seeing it from RVers, not just lobsters) estimating that there are 6 trillion in the hands of currency speculators alone. And that figure wouldn't be surprising. Even if 6-12 trillion were true, backing it with the ENTIRE known oil reserves? What happens when the oil is, say, half gone? The currency is worth half as much? Monetizing their entire oil supply would provide immense wealth for foreign currency speculators and long term would completely screw Iraq and Iraqis. And I just don't see the world financial markets buying it, even if Iraq were to make such a foolish decision. Backing a currency with oil, much of which won't see the light of day for 25-50 years, just doesn't seem realistic. There's a reason no one else has done it or is doing it. Imagine what would happen if Saudi did the same thing. Saudi has 700 billion in M2 (187 billion USD * 3.75 exchange rate). They have 264 billion barrels of oil reserves. Using the same ratio of reserves to dollars that you're using (your 20 trillion seems high to me), that gives them 37 trillion in crude. That would make their currency worth $52.85 per unit, instead of the 27 cents that it's currently trading for. Venezuala would be even worse. They have more oil than Saudi and their currency is worth even less than Iraqs. Why don't they monetize their entire oil reserve and all become overnight millionaires? I'd say they're in a better position than Iraq to do it, simply because they have more oil and less foreign currency speculators. Iraq doesn't exist in a bubble. Pumpers like to tell you that the situation in Iraq has never happened before in the history of the planet, but it isn't really true. Iraqs currency wasn't forcefully devalued by the IMF overnight, it was devalued over decades by rampant printing of currency and massive inflation, and that happens ALL THE TIME. Even if Iraq really is a completely unique situation, that doesn't mean they're allowed to completely disregard how currency works at its most basic level.

It's a nice sentiment but I know at least some states frown on anyone but non profits running a charity raffle (I know Colorado does, and I know because the owner of another site (not dinar related) got in deep doo doo for raffle related shennanigans). Probably more trouble than it's worth, I'd just find an existing charity/raffle, give them half what you were gonna donate, and then buy dinar with the other half.

I'm not 100% sure I understand what you're asking, but if you have a Warka account and there was a Redenomination you wouldn't need to do anything at all. Your 1,000,000 dinar worth $855 would become 1,000 dinar worth $855 with no action necessary from you. After a 3 digit RD, the price would be (without extra charges/spread) $855 per thousand, not $855 per million, and I think you're right, it could be a potentially good (but relatively long term) investment.

I think this may be the only sensible thing I've seen you post. The truth is that most "newbies" on their first post have more credibility virtually all of the gurus, simply because they haven't PROVEN that they're full of it, like most gurus have (and I'm not just talking about Okie, here). I'm not really going to bother responding to any of this, other than to say: 1. If Phoenix' logic and insight were really that solid he wouldn't have any trouble defending it instead of tucking his tail between his legs and disappearing. 2. There's a difference between arguing/debating and name calling/pissing matches. If you were put on mod review it's because of the latter, not the former. 3. Ignoring (i.e. banning) everyone that disagrees with you isn't a very intelligent way to look at an investment. That's lotto ticket mentality. If all you want to do is sit around and hear about how any day you're going to be a millionaire, why bother posting on a site at all? Just read Okie's stuff and plan on how many Ferraris you're going to buy after the RV. Personally, I think Adam's devotion to freedom of speech is EXTREMELY admirable, and I sincerely HOPE that that approach isn't hurting him financially. I say hope, rather than know, simply because there are a lot of people that are the type that follow Okie and they obviously have no interest in anything or anyone that says anything other than "you're going to be a millionaire on Tuesday." I hope that the fact that he allows/encourages frank discussion would draw MORE people to his site, rather than the converse (it certainly SHOULD), but of course I can't say for sure. I'll go a step further and say that regardless of the dinar outcome, and despite that I'm not a VIP, I BET there's a lot of good general information about investing (in general, and also in Iraq vs. other methods, or in other currencies), and asset protection, and tax liability, and all kinds of other things available to VIP members. Adam is 100%, without a doubt, a STAND UP GUY, and that's a hell of a lot more than you can say for any of the other site owners or gurus (and I won't call Adam a guru, because I think that term is fairly derogatory in a lot of people's minds). Adam is the ONLY person that, if he really thought it wasn't going to RV, I think would actually say so. You know none of those other guys/gals would. They'd keep pumping until the very last possible second in order to make another dollar, if they could. I wouldn't blame Adam for a second if he banned me. Okay, I would, for a few seconds. But I wouldn't be surprised and I wouldn't harbor any ill will because of it. In fact, I've been thinking of subscribing to VIP just because he commands my respect and is such a stand up guy, and that kind of integrity in this day and age, and especially in this investment, should be rewarded. Hell, I think I'll do it right now.

Anyone that thinks Okie actually HAS a source and isn't just making this stuff up completely is a fool, and probably shouldn't be handling their own investments.