Jaxinjersey

Hi Shellbell.... you've been a member here for a long time! Remember how we never even used to mention LOP, and it can't even be spelled in chat? So many of us never ever considered the possibility of a LOP until earlier this year, when the deletion of zeros articles came forth, and even Adam eased us into the discussion! It was like... "WOW"!!! It is possible... as per Adam, and others... So.... regardless of what we each believe... it IS NOW a valid discussion... and those of us here "pre-lop" era, still have the "right" to hang onto their dinars and participate... looking for any ROI. It's not arguing to them... it's simply discussion! For the record... I respectfully listen to it all... but I lean toward the straight RV camp.

Agreed dhardage! And I'm sorry about my participation at that level... but I will defend anyone on here for the sake of diplomacy when I see a misunderstanding about intentions. I think this one's a little tamer... weeding out the last of the confusion... But, yes... let's please move it along to further analysis.

Hi Atheist... I believe you, and others, are interpreting Keep's consistent analysis as a naysayer's. He is not... he's just thorough. Sure, it comes across negative, to me as well... but that doesn't change the analysis. What do you want him to do... lie to himself? And hence, to others? Keep has been here a long time and HAS expressed both sides of this issue. He was just looking for clarification because of the way HE sees it... no big deal, really. Heck, it could have been me asking the same questions. Let's get past this. I for one am glad he dives in deep.... and hope he is absolutely wrong. By the way... HE hopes he's wrong too! He hasn't made it any clearer about that! Get to know the guy... he doesn't stand in anyone's way... and if he ever grilled me, I would never take it personally. Both he and Bondlady perhaps had a bad day... happens to all of us. I'm sure as peers, which they are... they'll be just fine.

Bondlady... Thank you for the great response! I believe that analysis was all Keep and others were looking for! And, IMO, it would have been even better without the ongoing references to yesterday's drama. And everybody please realize that Keep has already clarified himself quite respectfully in a new thread he started. He also made it very clear yesterday that he believes his inquiry was misunderstood, and restated it several times. Keep has brought more to these forums than most of us... so, he is a stand up guy with a lot of analysis within him... sometimes, in each of us, that's not the easiest thing to express... especially in forums. I know... I'm one of those people... misunderstood quite a bit... even in person!

Well.... sure, a "laughable lop" That sounds fine and dandy for candyland, but I'd say they're the backwards sites... kind of the cart before the horse! So, if anything besides an RV occurs.... those members would have been misinformed... sounds a bit negligent to me, and others. Funny though... I do remember almost a year ago here at DV... even the mention of LOP was unheard of and off-limits, especially in chat. Now.... it's a daily discussion, due to the deletion of zeros articles. Anyway, I think most of us here are extremely optimistic... but remain grounded, and appreciate the analysis of all possibilities!

Keep... you were fair, complimentary and straight forward in your questioning. People know who you are... You've earned that right, and an explanation to any apparent "confusion" or "misunderstanding", on your own behalf... or for ours, for that matter. I do believe that BL and even others here, didn't quite understand the nature of your concern. I heard you the first three times... that the deletion of the zeroes articles simply need to have more clarity for the reader to understand all the implications.... and if they're just lumped in with positive articles and posts, readers might not get the negative side... and just believe it can only be positive. Now, unless there is something being left out here... I tend to understand it the way you do.... hence your questioning the reasoning. I just feel there is something missing in all this analysis... Anyway... I'd love to hear some clarification too.... It should not be dismissed as a bone of contention among peers.

Dear Tarsi... hello. I have been reading your posts, and although our fellow members do not need me to defend them, I will defend myself, as you lump us all together, indiscriminately. You paint quite a broad stroke in your "attacks" of fellow members here who disagree with you... and honestly, you are not being respectfully passionate in your retorts... you are purely angry and condescending. I politely ask you to refrain from the childish, typical left tactic of militant name-calling and bashing in place of substantive, respectful debate. I'd suggest you replace your obvious anger with ideological passion... because it is qhuite apparent to many of us (that disagree with you) that the writing is on the wall with this administration... It doesn't take extreme anaylsis. links or otherwise to simply know that our reasoning and sensibilities are offended. The list provided by Francie26 is very much adequate to validate OUR concerns. Policy is just the pragmatic extension of ideology, so let's not fool ourselves as to the intent or motive. If they don't bother you.... that's your perspective... fine. But please, don't try to tell me I'm wrong about mine... and I'm not here to debate you or anyone else about MY clarity in this... it is self-evident. As a fellow DV member, I wish for you to enjoy your personal perspective, with respectful passion... and we'll all get along just nicely.

DM... wonderfully stated, awesome response, thank you. And, I like your label: "traditional values christian libertarian constitutionalist." Personally, I've learned to pick my battles as realistically as possible in order to pursue any changes, and happiness. I embrace labels, definition... as they help me validate and secure clarity.... so as not to get caught up in a wishy-washy world of convoluted, twisted values. Labels are just that, extremely revealing. A duck is a duck, so to speak... it will take a lot to convince me otherwise. Labels of any kind should be worn proudly... and hopefully for many, can be changed! As I said, I'm a Conservative... a label that simply defines my values. Also notice, that I did not use the label "Liberal" in my last post... as I did not feel it was necessarily warranted. But, I have used it and will use it as needed for clarity. The division you speak of must at least be suppressed... because it will always exist. Labels do not divide us... ideology does. The label does not change the philosophy. Intellectual honesty, along with more objective reasoning and continuous enlightenment will save us. And once again, you are correct... "This is no accident"... Keep up the vigilence, DM!

Hello Divemaster... I always find a lot of sense in your posts. I certainly respect your viewpoints and share your frustration. However, here, I just can't comprehend the concept of the "union" you express, as the right and left ideologies are just too opposite. Yes, in an ideal world of objective reasoning, this concept would cure all.... but for far too many issues, "compromise" is truly a dirty word. One rationale or viewpoint will always suffer more than the other, and one will always prosper more. There is no such thing as "more alike than we are different", even if we could just all be labeled "Americans", unfortunately. There is a clearly marked line of separation... hence the inevitability of the "labels". I'm a Conservative and always will be different from my polar opposites... I will not compromise that. To give up any Conservative value, usually is only a gain for the left... it rarely has true reciprocity. When the left gives something up (ideologically), it's usually something that was already taken from the Conservative side... so they would just be giving it back. I do agree about the Common Enemy... our public servants' elitist mentality and entitlement attitude must always be confronted... and it is. But you have stated the most profound fact toward the end of your eloquent commentary.... "unless they really DON'T CARE". The divide is exactly for that reason... committed on purpose, via planned deconstructive efforts aimed at our Constitution and way of life. THAT, my friend, is the reason we must come together... and in that, there can only be one side. Which side each of us is on... is a decision of character, intellectual honesty, and courage. I see a lot of that here on DV.

I'll say it again, as I have in other threads... it's a matter of personal pride and values. I commend anyone that takes the time and effort to review their communication prior to committing it. Isn't that the way we learn, adapt and evolve... at any age? Why is that a bad thing? It probably takes more time to re-post a correction for clarity than it does to carefully present it the first time. Faster is not necessarily better. Quality over quantity. The process is as important as the destination, or results. Slow down... to speed up. All valid to those who care. For those that don't... fine... but many, many care. Grammar matters! The same applies to math. Some care "how" a math problem is solved... not just that a calculator has provided them the answer! See..... I checked, and edited!!!

I agree... but, it is a stark reminder of basic, simple human nature... reactions from those not "professionally" groomed or adept in handling confrontation... like politicians are used to . So, I will always give a little credence to those reactions... does make a lot of sense to me sometimes! And adds to the fun...

I will defend you GhostDawg.... we have seen this many times on here, concerning grammar and how it influences perception. Some care, some don't... it's a values issue, period. You've expressed your values and that's fair.... I happen to share the same value in communication and in how something is presented... for the sake of clarity, in the least... and of personal pride. How many times have we seen phone "texts" and "posts" get misunderstood because it is written communication? The "tone" itself can be offensive to some if not carefully presented. So, yes... I'd prefer people take a bit more care in their presentation too. That's just part of my personal values. I get "more" out of a carefully constructed presentation... nothing wrong with that. Like I said, you care or you don't... values. Now everyone... write as you wish... but please try not to be offended by a reader's reaction to your grammar. You alone are responsible for your perception (if you care ). Good luck to all!

I'm sorry, but that is just a bunch of nonsense. Of course they were here, but not even close to any sense of sovereignty or civilized society. In the days of world exploration, the spread of civiivations was simply inevitable, period. No 20th or 21st century revisionist historians can claim otherwise. We would not be here, nor would any other country's citizens, be enjoying the advancements of our civilized societies without early world exploration. So, let's stop with the ridiculous guilt trips. Enjoy the benefts of your heritage.

I've learned, over many years and opportunities, that I can only provide the information... the "secret", if you will... to friends and family... nothing more. The more you try to "sell" it, the more you are invested in their ultimate decision. Remove that, and simply allow them to decide for themselves as adults. Personally, I've shared this with half a dozen people... none have participated. But, I would feel negligent not to share my "secret", the same way I would feel about any other "opportunity" that was presented to me. Good luck to all.

Truthiness.....

Kids and their komputers... Just teasing... a bit hard to comprehend...

Well, if looking at this from the positive side... banks NOT buying back at this point could be seen as a directive, with consideration that something is changing, perhaps soon. Also, this does not mean that they will not be buying back/exchanging once it RVs... almost all banks will at that point. So, maybe it is....... Saaaaweeeet!

Spent the week in the Poconos, now watching the Yankees with my honey in Manasquan Enjoy, Alex!

Send Trump.... that'll scare the heck out of them! Get it done or you're fired... oh, and by the way, here's your bill for liberation! Pay up!!!

... and then RapidRoyP said to the clerk, what of course any of us would have said, "... so you told all your friends and relatives, right? And you, and they, are all ready to reap in this RV, right? And, of course, you're telling all your bank customers, right? You're just the nicest teller ever! You're an angel... no, a saint!!!! Thank you so much!!! Hey, dear... may I see the memo??? Just askin'..." Thanks Tony... I know it's not from you...

Hey NL... did you just give me the link to this thread? I understand it was a local bank... I guess my thought was more about, that such professionals SHOULDN'T argue with customers. I mean, seriously, that employee would be fired! That's why I don't believe it... Nor should they be offering their advice or opinion about a customer's transactions... it's unethical and unwise, even if asked. They are there to provide financial transactions. I suppose if the two were friendly enough, however.... I could see it happening in a small town... but, I'd certainly take my business elsewhere. And, I'm with you NL... keep your dinars close to your chest until it's time to lay 'em down!!!

Bank employees do not argue with, nor threaten customers! C'mon already with the bank stories... what bank was it? When I'm in the mood for a good argument, I want to go there and feel the pain!

Divemaster... GOOD STUFF!!! And FREE!!! Thanks!

Hello... and welcome! This is posted in the Off Topic Posts forum. You'll find also, that many of these subjects, including politics, is of importance to many members here. Many choose to read and engage... many don't. Your choice! Best of luck!

Thanks Mojack... a very reasonable response! You are right, in that there will always be a faction that, with ulterior motives, will never admit to full resolve. I think those are the "Believers", whereas the rest are simply questioning the unknown... which could well include those within your 77% to 86% poll... simply because the absolute truth is not truly known... most are just going by their gut instinct, or don't truly care. And that is the problem... gut instinct isn't enough, and it's not fair to those that do care. Personally, I want 100% truthful resolve... one way or the other... and see absolutely no harm in it's pursuit. It should have been 100% transparent from the beginning... but there are always obstructionists in politics, we all know that. But to fold up tents, would be a disservice to the percentage with a different "perspective"... at this point, it must be played out. So, let's see what happens. "But", "if", and "why" are very reasonable questions. Best of luck with your battle, my friend. I'll let my objectivism do the fighting for me!