CONTEST TIME! "How a stimulus package works"

[Booya]

We missed the part where the clerk took 95% of the original dollar and put it in his pocket as a BONUS! Thus, only sending 5 cents to the others.

[maverick101]

This sounds like the old proverbial saying what goes around comes around so we have the classic "stimulus package" program where the govt. could have taken

that money gave it to these people then say that they paid the money back to the tax payers which in reality we never see it ,actually are you sure that wasn"t

Washington D.C.???

[laughingbuddah]

this is basically about trading---the $100 is the representation of value---as long as it keeps moving there is value---throw in taxes and/or interest or other parasite actions and value is lost---then the need to print

more /need more $100 to trade for the same things---

This is a "pyramid scheme" --as long as everyone plays all is Well!!!

[seromlig5]

The one serious flaw in this little story, which also happens to be one of a number of serious flaws in socialist economic theory, is that the $100 was actually stolen from the traveler by the hotel owner. He had no right to use a potential customer's money to pay his own debt. He has yet to earn that money and has no legal right to use it, however noble the intended purpose may be. Socialist governments confiscate the funds of their subjects and the real results are never as positive as in this fancifully fictitious fable. In fact, the results of their economic experiments are nearly always disastrous.

[TimS]

The piont is.....the hotel clerk "stole" the $100 from the tourist, then returned it without him knowing. The only reason the scam worked was because the hotel clerk was willing to return the money he got paid....meaning the hotel clerk did not actually receive any money for his original services he rendered. The hotel clerk screwed himself, but let everybody else out of their debt in doing so......kinda like the government.....they screw themselves by offering a stimulus package that is based on bogus money.

[thetamjam]

The real flaw in this theory is that everyone still paid their debt(s) with borrowed money.

[hfdmedic]

1. If I'm reading this right, the tourist represents the tax payer and the hotel represents the government, therefore the hotel employees would represent our Congress. Where were the employees with their hands out wanting their "pork", before the butcher got his!

2. The tourist expected his money back if no services were rendered or the services were not satisfactory. We the tax payers gave up on that long ago.

3. Anyway you look at this the hotel owner was the one who got the shaft. Does anyone really expect that the government would take the shaft on our behalf?

4. None of this takes into account intrest payments, palms greased, lawsuits issued, or any of the other issues real businesses have to deal with.

[Bob. S]

This was sent to me via email. I get a LOT of these, obviously... I mean, over 35,000 people have my email address.

I almost responded... but then I thought it would be better if the level headed, intelligent members of DV took a crack at it!

I mean, let's be honest. I can say a lot, but as a group you can all say MUCH MORE. (That's the premise of VIP and getting a better rate to cash in, but I digress...)

So, let's have some fun with this!

Please read the following... and I implore you to find the one serious flaw in this email.

What's at stake?

A FREE VIP MEMBERSHIP FOR TWO PEOPLE.

Yep, that's right! FREE VIP.

I am going to sponsor a 3 month VIP membership to two people:

1. The highest rated response
2. The first person to point out what I personally think is the biggest flaw in this "theory".

(Yes, this is a completely biased contest that could be considered rigged... whoever plays their cards right the fastest could end up with a HUGE benefit from a free VIP membership!).

On the other hand, you also have a chance to blast a tank sized hole in the logic of whomever wrote this piece of garbage... I think we ALL win here!

WARNING!!!! This is a "Thinking Person's" contest! Ignorant, blind, bleating sheep need not apply!

Here's the email:

Have fun, and may the best and highest rated answer win!

Contest ends in 48 hours.

[fish9483]

The hotel rooms are satisfactory. No one will stay there because of it. So the hotel will never have enough money to upgrade it and will probably close.

[Bob. S]

This was sent to me via email. I get a LOT of these, obviously... I mean, over 35,000 people have my email address.

I almost responded... but then I thought it would be better if the level headed, intelligent members of DV took a crack at it!

I mean, let's be honest. I can say a lot, but as a group you can all say MUCH MORE. (That's the premise of VIP and getting a better rate to cash in, but I digress...)

So, let's have some fun with this!

Please read the following... and I implore you to find the one serious flaw in this email.

What's at stake?

A FREE VIP MEMBERSHIP FOR TWO PEOPLE.

Yep, that's right! FREE VIP.

I am going to sponsor a 3 month VIP membership to two people:

1. The highest rated response
2. The first person to point out what I personally think is the biggest flaw in this "theory".

(Yes, this is a completely biased contest that could be considered rigged... whoever plays their cards right the fastest could end up with a HUGE benefit from a free VIP membership!).

On the other hand, you also have a chance to blast a tank sized hole in the logic of whomever wrote this piece of garbage... I think we ALL win here!

WARNING!!!! This is a "Thinking Person's" contest! Ignorant, blind, bleating sheep need not apply!

Here's the email:

Have fun, and may the best and highest rated answer win!

Contest ends in 48 hours.

initially you refer to a motel then a hotel

[getfreefromdebt1]

Well, I'm not one who claims to understand how stimulus works. However, I do know that the money is created out of thin air and used to stimulate the economy so that taxpayers not only spend the stimulus funds but also money they weren't willing to spend. Additionally, the hotel/motel owner took a chance because he truly could have never known whether or not that money would make it back in time for him to get it back to the hotel traveler. The rooms were unsatisfactory... but the greatest flaw in that story was....

NO ONE SAVED A DIME... NO ONE INVESTED A PENNY... AND THEY WILL ALL BE WAITING ON THE NEXT TRAVELER TO COME THROUGH...

ADDITIONALLY, THEY WERE ALL DEPENDING ON A FOREIGN INVESTMENT/INVESTOR TO GET THEM ALL OUT OF DEBT! LOL...

P.S. WHO CONVERTED THE CURRENCY BEFORE IT CHANGED ALL THOSE HANDS..... NO ONE

[hamilja]

This was sent to me via email. I get a LOT of these, obviously... I mean, over 35,000 people have my email address.

I almost responded... but then I thought it would be better if the level headed, intelligent members of DV took a crack at it!

I mean, let's be honest. I can say a lot, but as a group you can all say MUCH MORE. (That's the premise of VIP and getting a better rate to cash in, but I digress...)

So, let's have some fun with this!

Please read the following... and I implore you to find the one serious flaw in this email.

What's at stake?

A FREE VIP MEMBERSHIP FOR TWO PEOPLE.

Yep, that's right! FREE VIP.

I am going to sponsor a 3 month VIP membership to two people:

1. The highest rated response
   
2. The first person to point out what I personally think is the biggest flaw in this "theory".
   

(Yes, this is a completely biased contest that could be considered rigged... whoever plays their cards right the fastest could end up with a HUGE benefit from a free VIP membership!).

On the other hand, you also have a chance to blast a tank sized hole in the logic of whomever wrote this piece of garbage... I think we ALL win here!

WARNING!!!! This is a "Thinking Person's" contest! Ignorant, blind, bleating sheep need not apply!

Here's the email:

Have fun, and may the best and highest rated answer win!

Contest ends in 48 hours.

I would have to say that the Hotel Manager was foolish and jumped the gun assuming the man would take the room, believing the cash was his. This is foolish in the sense that he went out and spent what was not yet available to him and though he received the money back from the hooker, it was not guaranteed to work that way. In this type of thinking, I can only think that this man didn't even use credit, but was a theif in the sense he used what wasn't his in hopes that he would be out of trouble, but only opened the door for criminal prosecution.

If I have $100.00 credit and yet I spend $125.00, not only have I went over my limit, by the penalty could be very steep! I could end up paying more on my credit or even losing something dear to me, up to my "Freedom".

Thanks,

J

[Yabadabado]

In the end the Hotel person did not get a dime... our tax dollars took from all of us... perceived value... mind game.. Pay Peter by taking from Paul... Socialism at it's finest.

[mrsonnyr]

Adam, Good luck reading all these

1) The hotel proprietor got the 100.00 from somewhere (tourist)--The government orders the "stimulus" money to be printed by the mint.

The mint doesn't do that for free. They print the money and "sell" it to the government, which "pays" for it backed by bonds AT INTEREST

(Nothing of value that the government owns...except future tax revenues) which is then passed on to the American taxpayer!!!

Therefore, the proprietor couldn't get the 100.00 and just put it back! He would have had to pay interest on that money SO

it would simply create FURTHER DEBT.

2) As previously mentioned, the created "money" has no real value and did NO good, because no product (WITH intrinsic value) was created

for the end consumer, which in turn, would be paid for by something else of REAL value!

3) The answer to this riddle is EXACTLY why the invent of the "PLAN" that we all so eagerly await.

If we would truly take the time to learn and understand the fractional banking, which is how our system is run, THIS PROBLEM

(as mentioned in 1 above) IS COMPOUNDED. Today our leaders have let this get out of control, and WILL COLLAPSE our economy as

we know it. That is why our government leaders created the "PLAN". By destroying the value of the Iraq dinar, AT THE SAME TIME,

KNOWING THEY HAVE HUGE ASSETS (OF REAL VALUE) IN THE GROUND (not backed by thin air), then buying up their currency

while it's low (that they intentionally knew would devalue), then cash in AFTER it has RV'd, they FIX THE DEBT PROBLEM OUR COUNTRY.

TODAY'S PRINTED U.S. "MONEY" IS ONLY "CREATED" BY DEBT...PERIOD------THE FIX, IS TO FIND MONEY BACKED BY SOMETHING OF REAL VALUE!

THEN, AND ONLY THEN, CAN THE ECONOMY REALLY BE STIMULATED!!!

This is why the RV HAS to happen...by "partnering" with a country that has REAL value that the world wants, we will eliminate our debt and stimulate the economy!

Just my opinion

[LaGuera]

With stimulus packages, people save the money and do not even use the money towards debt....

[thetamjam]

Had to think a minute without distraction...here's my second guess;

No one is going to lay money down before looking at a room. I managed a storage facility and do not (cannot) charge customers to "look" before renting.

That's also counting your chickens before they hatch. Had the money NOT come full circle back to the hotel proprietor he would have still had to pay back the prospective renter.

[snowglobe4]

there is no upstairs in a motel.....they are one story only.

a hotel has more than one story.

[GreginTexas]

The word stimulus leads one to think of excitement or movement. There was no stimulus to the economy, Only debt relief. Had the tourist stayed and had bacon for breakfast and pehaps had the local call girl over could there been a movement in the local economy.

[vern]

The answer---- You have corporate debt and household debt - you also have credit which is dfferent than a debt-Then you have the money back in the coffers as not to suspect anything. This cannot happen. Someone has to know something.Stimulus is for the economy As far as getting people out of debt it may have wiped the books clean but the economy has no money to move .So when next month comes in you have spent more than you have made and nothing has changed------------- For instance:

The Hotel owner takes $20. to pay his tax bill. He gives $80. left to the Butcher.

The Butcher takes $16. to pay his tax bill. He gives the $64 left to the pig farmer.

The pig farmer takes $13. to pay his tax bill. He gives the $51. left to the Co-Op.

The Co-Op guy gives the $51. left to the hooker.

The prostitute gives the $51. to the Motel owner.

The Motel owner gives the tourist $51. plus $49. that he borrows from the bank.

At the end of this story:

The butcher owes $20. to the pig farmer. Bank will only loan him $10. Can't pay goes bust. Lays off 5 employees.

The pig farmer owes the Co-Op $51. Bank not loaning money. Can't pay goes bust. Lays off 10 employees.

The Co-Op is out $100 and owes $20 in taxes. Has to go into receivership. Lays off 20 employees.

The guy at the Co-Op still owes the hooker $49. He is facing charges of theft from the Co-Op. Also lost his job. Now on welfare.

The hooker still owes $61. to the motel owner. The IRS is investigating her income. With interest and penalties, they say she owes $1000. She goes on welfare. Maybe going to jail for tax evasion.

The motel owner owes $49. to the bank. Can't pay goes bust. Collecting welfare.

The bank fails because it cannot collect on it's loans.

The government raises taxes to cover the cost of the new departments to deal with the bank and business failures. I hope this helps everyone to understand- Any questions i am now able to refer you to our New Depatment Head--Mr Seymore Dolittle who is the CEO and Admin. of the That,ll Do Corp.. that we now contract to-I tahnk you- Vern

[CaptCJ]

Duh! The motel owner loses his $100 receivable! -CJ

[sgmunson]

An interesting contest, and an interesting story on which it's based....

As to flaws, there are a number of them.

1.) hotel vs. motel - this could be just a typo, and besides, there are more serious ones.

2.) hooker provides services on credit - this one is just not realistic, no matter how small the town, however, larger flaws exist, and for the sake of the story, one can allow for this without affecting the overall story.

3.) Cycle-time - also unrealistic to expect that $100 to travel fast enough to make it back to the hotel.motel in time, but again, more basic and larger flaws exist, and this can be allowed for.

4.) Reliance on 100% cycling - this one is major - no one spends 100% of a windfall on debt. EVER... without a court order to do so staring them in the face. Not only is this unrealistic, it's unsustainable. There are ALWAYS other costs, and most especially taxes. However, for the sake of the story, one can make allowance for it.

5.) The initial $100 is stolen money the moment the hotel/motel guy uses it to pay his debt, and while this seems to be a flaw, theft is certainly a common enough event, so actually, this is NOT a flaw. Additionally, the guy at the Co-Op is stealing the funds to go pay a debt that is clearly a personal debt and not a Co-Op debt, so apparently, theft in this town of Pump Handle may just be rampant. In the case of the story, however, there's a reliance on two people thieving 100 bucks, so it makes the story a lot less appealing from the point of view of trying to use it as a viable example, but again, for the sake of the story, not critical.

6.) Anyone leaving $100 on the table to go "inspect a room" at a lodging facility is probably going to see the hooker, so that's not too realistic either, but for the sake of the story, not a killer.

7,) Driving through town with deserted streets - making that argument is just a bunch of semantics and gets nowhere.

8.) The tourist is the only one with cash - again, semantics.

9.) Likening this story to true stimulus packages as enacted by liberal democrats - while the story certainly bears a striking resemblance to the reality of the Obama stimulus funds, that, in and of itself, is not a flaw.

10.) The MOST SIGNIFICANT flaw is that there are so many things wrong with it. No one thing, on it's own, kills it - it's the accumulated level of unbelievability - a virtual stack of white lies so tall that even the most lenient would seek to tumble the entire stack and lay things bare. Many have identified any one given flaw, but taken separately, the individual flaws could all be "accounted for" in that is IS a STORY, not a real-life scenario, and all such scenarios are usually designed to make a point. This particular story does it particularly poorly, despite the fact that after most folks have read it, they are likely to have A) enjoyed the story, and ignored the flaws. It's the swiss cheese nature of it that is it's most significant flaw.

Steve

(aka sgmunson)

[Beachwalker]

Most serious flaw in this "stimulus package" line of thought: Not one single thing has been produced.

[duty.rec]

Well to me the moral of this story is for the motel owner crime really does pay.

[HDog]

I'm probably just being dumb, but from what I can see on Google Maps, there is no town called Panhandle in North Dakota. Maybe I'm thinking too far out of the box; or maybe there's two flaws! Gimme my free membership either! way! Even if I got the answer wrong, I probably got you laughing and I don't even care if it's at me! I've got MY Dinar!

I ain't nuthin' butta!

HDog

I'm probably just being dumb, but from what I can see on Google Maps, there is no town called Panhandle in North Dakota. Maybe I'm thinking too far out of the box; or maybe there's two flaws! Gimme my free membership either! way! Even if I got the answer wrong, I probably got you laughing and I don't even care if it's at me! I've got MY Dinar!

I ain't nuthin' butta!

HDog

I'm probably just being dumb, but from what I can see on Google Maps, there is no town called Panhandle in North Dakota. Maybe I'm thinking too far out of the box; or maybe there's two flaws! Gimme my free membership either! way! Even if I got the answer wrong, I probably got you laughing and I don't even care if it's at me! I've got MY Dinar!

I ain't nuthin' butta!

HDog

I'm probably just being dumb, but from what I can see on Google Maps, there is no town called Panhandle in North Dakota. Maybe I'm thinking too far out of the box; or maybe there's two flaws! Gimme my free membership either! way! Even if I got the answer wrong, I probably got you laughing and I don't even care if it's at me! I've got MY Dinar!

I ain't nuthin' butta!

HDog

[alice]

Easy enoug: The stimulus packeag was meant to fool liberals intothining they wree getting involved in a faux Reaganomics theory of Trickle down bubble up economy. The fasux part being yeah bay it all ricled down and "upo "on the deak only for it to DISAPPEAR. The new syse, al Obama ..sorry folks..doesn't worlk. Yes I love my liberal warme hearted freinds.but the study of real hardcore econic history has be re written by the currents peopel in power and these sweet unassunming tenecer hearts don't know it!

Love an dPeace to all

alice ( sweet alice)