EverCurious452 Posted February 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2021 18 hours ago, Markinsa said: I have seen expert testimony from multiple doctors that have said that hydroxychloroquine works for the Wuhan Virus. Humans are not naturally objective observers. Very much the opposite. The doctors of course want to think they are doing good, their patients want to think they are being helped. That is why we use placebo controlled double blind trials to determine effectiveness of drugs (and running such a trial is difficult to do correctly and expensive). Barring the extreme case of a treatment resulting in instant recovery from deaths door, which no one is claiming for hydroxychloroquine, testimony from some doctors who believe it to "work" as you say for SARS-Cov-2 aka COVID-19 is pretty meaningless as an end result. It is enough to prompt further study, but that study has been done and found very little if any effect. Just having a study that claims an outcome is also not sufficient it has to be reviewed and checked and stand the test of peer review and confirmation by other studies. Read this https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/07/21/fact-check-hydroxychloroquine-hasnt-helped-covid-19-studies-show/5407547002/ for a review of the history of this. Getting to the truth of something like this is difficult in any case, but all the more so for a case where people are dying and we are desperate for a solution. Sadly hydroxychloroquine isn't it. 18 hours ago, Markinsa said: I will tend to believe them as they have nothing to gain from their testimony other than promoting the truth. On the other hand, how much money will the bureaucrats who say it doesn't work get for doing so? I'm not saying that these doctors do not genuinely believe what they are saying (its possible some may have other motives but that is not they main issue) but the history of the scientific method (i.e. why we invented it in the first place) tells us that humans are terrible objective observers even when they have nothing to gain one way or the other. And in this case the doctors DO have something to gain. The view that they are helping their patients, which they of course want to be true and the view that they have discovered something significant which of course they would like to do. What "bureaucrats" are you speaking of here and what evidence do you have that they are being paid off? 18 hours ago, Markinsa said: There is a lot I can say about your post and what I think of your characterization of the motives for my post, but I won't. As you wish. I'd be happy to engage on the subject (though its a bit odd having to have you approve my posts, and thank you for doing so). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markinsa Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocalDinar Posted February 11, 2021 Report Share Posted February 11, 2021 On 2/8/2021 at 3:45 PM, EverCurious452 said: Markinsa if you want to read the articles to see what they claim Trump got wrong, and what they claim the study actually shows and read the study to see if they got that right and if it matches other research, then perhaps a conclusion could be drawn as to whether Cohen is being consistent or not. As it is you have shown nothing other than that Elizabeth Cohen has co-authored 2 CNN articles. I'm guessing you cut and pasted the image you posted from another site and haven't done any of that. Yet another case of looking for anything to post that supports your view, with no regard for its legitimacy as opposed to actually trying to find out what is so prior to reaching a conclusion. Which is a big part of what fuels conspiracy theories. Have to chime in here. I dont' believe studies blindly. Plenty of corruption in every facet of our lives. Funding is a huge motivator to skew things. Science is great but still conducted by humans. Cant say i believe in the Big Bang Theory . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EverCurious452 Posted February 11, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2021 On 2/9/2021 at 5:37 PM, Markinsa said: Of course now it IS a few months after the phase 3 trials started in nov and people are only dying that have NOT been vaccinated. I am not aware of any case of someone vaccinated that has died of COVID-19. Further the paper (which I rather doubt you read but if you care to here is the link, I did at least browse it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3335060/pdf/pone.0035421.pdf) shows that the the S protein vaccine (it was not an mRNA vaccine but did use a part of the S protein so its similar) provided protection and did NOT produce the immunopathology the other full virus vaccines did (though they protected as well). Further the immunopathology being examined (half of the 10 mice in each group were exposed to the virus after being vaccinated for it then a few days later killed so their lungs could be examined) is only theorized as as an issue (all the mice were alive and well). This paper is from 2012, what has happened since, what papers confirm or reject this finding? You don't care do you? You again demonstrate my point. Instead of looking for what is so, you look for anything that you think supports you point of view and run with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EverCurious452 Posted February 11, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2021 8 hours ago, SocalDinar said: Have to chime in here. I dont' believe studies blindly. Plenty of corruption in every facet of our lives. Funding is a huge motivator to skew things. Science is great but still conducted by humans. Cant say i believe in the Big Bang Theory . Hey SD, always nice to hear form you. I'm not as cynical about it as you. As far as I can see (and I do know a bunch of folks in the medical research field) most inaccurate findings are just mistakes. That might be due to ego, a rush to get published and just bad analysis (there is a staggering amount of that I'm sorry to say). There is corruption in corporations paying for studies (we saw that in tobacco and opioids) but less so at the university/nih funded level I think. But now on to physics (I've just been listening to a recent book by Sean Carol about multi-verse theory. Pretty mind bending and I'm not totally sold (these books are frustrating in that I can't ask the author questions, but I still enjoy them). One thing I like about Carol he is that he is clear that he thinks its correct, but doesn't really know and will be happy to change his mind if someone comes up with something more convincing. As for the big bang whether the theories that take it down to the first few nanoseconds are correct, who knows. But we know for sure that the universe is expanding at an every accelerating rate, so it seems pretty clear that in the far past it was a lot closer together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markinsa Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 18 hours ago, EverCurious452 said: Of course now it IS a few months after the phase 3 trials started in nov and people are only dying that have NOT been vaccinated. I am not aware of any case of someone vaccinated that has died of COVID-19. At least 55 people have died in the US after receiving coronavirus vaccine, according to federal database Cali. X-ray tech “excited” to get shot dies after receiving 2nd dose of Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine At least 23 people have died from coronavirus vaccines in Norway (so far) Baseball legend Hank Aaron dies two weeks after receiving coronavirus vaccinate during publicity stunt 33 elderly people dead after first dose of coronavirus vaccine 18 hours ago, EverCurious452 said: I am not aware of any case of someone vaccinated that has died of COVID-19. Further the paper (which I rather doubt you read but if you care to here is the link, I did at least browse it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3335060/pdf/pone.0035421.pdf) shows that the the S protein vaccine (it was not an mRNA vaccine but did use a part of the S protein so its similar) provided protection and did NOT produce the immunopathology the other full virus vaccines did (though they protected as well). Both Covid Vaccines are mRNA. What does the S Protein have to do with this conversation or the vaccines? I briefly scanned the attached document, but I am not familiar with the medical jargon. mRNA Vaccines Might Prove Catastrophic in a Rushed Coronavirus ResponseBombshell primer breaks down the very real risks of this cutting-edge technology These vaccines are a Trojan Horse and it appears they are already explaining it away (see article below). If you have watched the Bio Warfare video the Dr in that video explains what can happen. TICKING TIMEBOMB How ‘Disease X’ could wipe out 75million and spark pandemics every FIVE years after Covid as man clashes with nature Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EverCurious452 Posted February 12, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Markinsa said: At least 55 people have died in the US after receiving coronavirus vaccine, according to federal database Cali. X-ray tech “excited” to get shot dies after receiving 2nd dose of Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine At least 23 people have died from coronavirus vaccines in Norway (so far) Baseball legend Hank Aaron dies two weeks after receiving coronavirus vaccinate during publicity stunt 33 elderly people dead after first dose of coronavirus vaccine Of course people have died after getting vaccinated especially since the first group to get it are the oldest and most frail. What I said was that I am unaware of anyone who has died from COVID-19 after getting vaccinated. That was the claim made by your fist link, that after getting vaccinated then exposure to the virus was worse than if you had not been vaccinated perhaps to the point of being fatal. Note that the VAERS system/site is only a reporting system. It makes no claim of causality. In order to investigate any possible causes you first have to repot adverse events that only are correlated. 4 hours ago, Markinsa said: Both Covid Vaccines are mRNA. What does the S Protein have to do with this conversation or the vaccines? I briefly scanned the attached document, but I am not familiar with the medical jargon. The article you originally posted tested various kinds of vaccines for a claimed immunopoathology (i.e. a problem resulting from an immunization). Those included both attenuated full viruses (the common style of a vaccine) and vaccines that only carried (a piece of) the S protein, the same protein that the mRNA vaccines code for. Those vaccines (the S ones) did NOT show the immunopalthology the others did in the mice (though again all the mice in the experiment vaccinated and exposed to the virus remained alive and well. 4 hours ago, Markinsa said: mRNA Vaccines Might Prove Catastrophic in a Rushed Coronavirus ResponseBombshell primer breaks down the very real risks of this cutting-edge technology These vaccines are a Trojan Horse and it appears they are already explaining it away (see article below). If you have watched the Bio Warfare video the Dr in that video explains what can happen. TICKING TIMEBOMB How ‘Disease X’ could wipe out 75million and spark pandemics every FIVE years after Covid as man clashes with nature For the first link, I decline to get info from "newswars". They just making unsubstantiated assertions. Your second link of the "ticking time-bomb" isn't even about vaccines. It's about the fact that this will not be the last pandemic, and with that I certainly agree (not with the article per say but that there will be more pandemics). In many ways we have been lucky that SARS-Cov-2 was not more lethal and more transmissiable. Edited February 12, 2021 by EverCurious452 clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markinsa Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 5 hours ago, EverCurious452 said: For the first link, I decline to get info from "newswars". Newswars just reposted the article. https://www.healthranger.com/Health-Ranger-Biography.html And the deaths from the Covid Vaccines, they are not doing autopsies, so we don't know. If you go to VAERS you will see over 400 people have died within a Month after taking the vaccine, most within a week. Many within two days. Go ahead and put an unknown substance in your body. Makes perfect sense, especially when there are viable treatments for the virus that aren't being promoted by the beaurocrats. Why are they promoting the vaccine? Because they get $3000 per dose, instead of $10 for the treatment. . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhoc10 Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 On 2/10/2021 at 6:20 PM, SocalDinar said: Cant say i believe in the Big Bang Theory I think that is not really true, You invested in Dinar and we will all , hopefully realize a big bang for our buck (investment). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EverCurious452 Posted February 12, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 3 hours ago, Markinsa said: Newswars just reposted the article. https://www.healthranger.com/Health-Ranger-Biography.html and healthranger which is a self-styled health food promoter has a testimonial from Alex Jones (infowars) so no wonder you like them. 3 hours ago, Markinsa said: And the deaths from the Covid Vaccines, they are not doing autopsies, so we don't know. If you go to VAERS you will see over 400 people have died within a Month after taking the vaccine, most within a week. Many within two days. Ah so without autopsies (and how do you know they are not doing them?) you still attribute the cause of death to the vaccine. Old and frail people die quote often. The question is is the death rate among those that got the vaccine any higher than among those that did not? I'd guess lower since few if any will have died of covid and many that did not get it it will have. 3 hours ago, Markinsa said: Go ahead and put an unknown substance in your body. Makes perfect sense, especially when there are viable treatments for the virus that aren't being promoted by the beaurocrats. Why are they promoting the vaccine? Because they get $3000 per dose, instead of $10 for the treatment. I already have done so. Please tell us what beauorcrat is getting $3000 per dose of the vaccine. For your $10 treatment you obviously are not including any hospital time. Let me guess its for Hydroxychloriquine, despite it showing in fact no help. Have you seen the reports that Trump, despite taking it, was far sicker than was oringally revealed when he contracted COVID-19? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EverCurious452 Posted February 12, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 2 hours ago, adhoc10 said: I think that is not really true, You invested in Dinar and we will all , hopefully realize a big bang for our buck (investment). :-) Alas I think the steady state model would be a better analogy! (I'm also pretty sure SD has sold all but a token reminder of his IQD). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EverCurious452 Posted February 12, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 quick followon to the "$3000 per does" question. I just noticed https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/22/health/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-government-contract/index.html says Pfizer is charging the US $19.50 per dose ($1.95B for 100M doses). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfl9 Posted February 19, 2021 Report Share Posted February 19, 2021 On 2/12/2021 at 12:18 PM, EverCurious452 said: 🙂 Alas I think the steady state model would be a better analogy! (I'm also pretty sure SD has sold all but a token reminder of his IQD). It is amazing. Iraq could be 6 months from bankruptcy although that only means they will devalue again and they ( RVers) still believe they are going to make money . A second devalue should nail it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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