When Will It End?

[Legolas]

WHEN WILL IT END?

Many of us suspected way back in March that we'd still be sitting here in August waiting for Iraq to form a government. The handwriting was on the wall. Every day since, the countless contradictory articles have stated the same things, over and over again. Clearly, they know what they have to do, and the majority of them probably do want to do it.....they're simply not capable of accomplishing it on their own. The simple truth is that the sectarian division which has existed for eternity and is unlikely to disappear in the near future makes it virtually impossible for the various blocs to come to an acceptable agreement. They boldly say that they want representation from all sects, but it's obvious that they can't agree on WHICH sect will get what positions, and there is no clear majority to mandate a conclusion. Sadly, even if that majority existed, the minority factions would likely resort to violence to voice their dissent, making stability difficult to achieve.

Until they realize that the only final solution to the problems is to remove sectarianism from the political arena, this scenario will inevitably recur over and over again. We've read that the U.S. no longer has the power to step in and appoint a government. Whether we do or do not, a move like that would likely only create new problems and more violence, not to mention world-wide resentment of a perceived U.S. attempt at domination. Logically, if this power exists at all, it should be the U.N. that steps in to resolve the stalemate. Chapter 7 would appear to be a justification for this intervention. It is however fairly evident that even the U.N. is reluctant to interfere, and with good reason.

Allawi, as a secular candidate, would appear to have the best chance of beginning the elimination of sectarian strife in Iraq. But we must remember that even if given the first shot at forming a government by the newly elected President, he must be elected by an 80% majority of their otherwise sectarian parliament. This will likely be no small feat. If he fails, we start the process again with yet another candidate. In any event, we’re unlikely to see the formation of a stable government magically appear overnight.

Unfortunately, while the problem of sectarianism is remarkably well demonstrated in the election problems of Iraq, most of the world appears unable or unwilling to recognize that this problem exists in MOST countries, and is hardly exclusive to Iraq. We simply don’t like to talk about it due to the fact that to do so opens a Pandora’s Box which nobody wants to deal with. Indefensible religious differences and dogma have been the cause of countless wars, the loss of millions upon millions of lives, unfathomable destruction of property, and ongoing disputes of one type or another all around the world. When the population of this planet finally understands this indisputable fact, the problems of Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Lebanon, Israel, Syria, et al will eventually cease to exist, and world peace might become an achievable goal.

However, every politician who has ever run for political office is well aware of the fact that to assume an anti-theist or “secular” position is in nearly every country a virtual guarantee that the race will be lost. Therefore, we shouldn’t be a bit surprised by what is occurring today in Iraq. Ultimately, we are no different than they are – we have simply progressed slightly further in our democracy, largely due to our constitutionally mandated separation of church and state. Bear in mind however that many in this country are trying very hard to reverse that progression. Everyone in the world should realize that this is a grievous error in judgement. Literally thousands of gods have been disposed of over thousands of years of human existence as scientific knowledge progressed and humans became better educated. Yet we continue to cling to a few of them, and will continue to kill each other as we argue over their validity. Education is the solution, and very little effort appears devoted to this goal, in Iraq, Afghanistan or elsewhere for that matter. Meanwhile, we wait, as yet another date (July 26) on or before which the Dinar “had to RV” passes uneventfully. Patience is indeed a virtue required of this investment.

Edited July 26, 2010 by Legolas

[unclegeek]

However, every politician who has ever run for political office is well aware of the fact that to assume an anti-theist or “secular” position is in nearly every country a virtual guarantee that the race will be lost. Therefore, we shouldn’t be a bit surprised by what is occurring today in Iraq. Ultimately, we are no different than they are – we have simply progressed slightly further in our democracy, largely due to our constitutionally mandated separation of church and state. Bear in mind however that many in this country are trying very hard to reverse that progression. Everyone in the world should realize that this is a grievous error in judgement. Literally thousands of gods have been disposed of over thousands of years of human existence as scientific knowledge progressed and humans became better educated. Yet we continue to cling to a few of them, and will continue to kill each other as we argue over their validity. Education is the solution, and very little effort appears devoted to this goal, in Iraq, Afghanistan or elsewhere for that matter. Meanwhile, we wait, as yet another date (July 26) on or before which the Dinar “had to RV” passes uneventfully. Patience is indeed a virtue required of this investment.

read the Declaration of Independence fool. Then study the constitution on the First amendment. Here you go:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

It means that the government shall not endorse one religion over another. THERE IS NO CONSTITUTIONAL MANDATE FOR SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. That was a personal letter from jefferson. And the libs like you have twisted it into the intention of making it a law. IT IS NOT LAW. Since we started making darwin the 'religion' taught in the classroom, how has America done on the world stage? Either stay with the facts and truth or don't waste our time!

[wbuse984]

Unc you are correct...Legolas the constitution was constructed to keep the state out of mandating religion as was done in Britain...it was not constructed to eliminate religion from government...if that were true then look at how many times during our history the U.S. Government had bibles printed for distribution or supported missionary work...you will be surprised...also, Jefferson's letter was an admonition to beware of the State violating the first amendment by restricting religious expression, which is happening more and more in our day...JMHO

[Traconesu02]

Good Post - Thanks for sharing Legolas - You bottom line is correct though - most of us knew when we got into this investment that it was for the long haul.

I feel very fortunate as many have been in this for over 6 years. I do not think it will be another six years before we get our payoff on this investment.

I still believe iraq will RV before the end of this year.

Of course as everyone always says we are dealing with iraq.

If they can not get a government seated Well! Who knows?

[Legolas]

"Mandated" was a poor choice of words. Intent and subsequent interpretation would have been better. Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, and many others came out strongly in favor of separation and the issue was hotly debated before the final document was written. Numerous court rulings have since maintained it. Thomas Paine was largely responsible for the American Revolution, and his thoughts regarding religion and government are described below:

When the United States of America was founded, it represented the most progressive political movement in Western Civilization since the days of the Greek democracies over 2,000 years ago. The movement for revolution, as most of us should know, was sparked by Thomas Paine, who roused colonists' desire for freedom with his best selling book Common Sense and then participated in the Revolution both as an enlisted man and by writing the inspirational series Crisis. Paine was the first to suggest the unification of the separate states, and the first to use to term United States of America. Paine turned over all the money he received from the sale of his works to the Continental Army to support the cause of the Revolution. After the American Revolution was over Paine went on to France where he then participated in the French Revolution in his lifelong effort to fight for freedom from tyranny. Perhaps more than any other single man, Thomas Paine is responsible for the formation of the United States, for as fellow revolutionary and American president John Adams stated: "Without the pen of Paine the sword of Washington would have been wielded in vain."

While in France Thomas Paine wrote The Rights of Man and a book called The Age of Reason, which he sent back to America to have published. In the introduction to The Age of Reason Paine stated:

“Fellow Citizens of the United States of America, I put the following work under your protection. It contains my opinion upon religion.”

Paine went on to give his opinion of religion:

"I believe in the equality of man; and I believe that religious duties consist in doing justice, loving mercy, and endeavoring to make our fellow-creatures happy.

But, lest it should be supposed that I believe in many other things in addition to these, I shall, in the progress of this work, declare the things I do not believe, and my reasons for not believing them.

I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.

All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."

This was just the beginning. After stating that he did believe in God, but that he felt all religions were corrupt, he went on to offer what was to that date one of the fullest criticisms of the Bible, and he denounced the story of Jesus as a product of Roman pagan mythology, stating that Jesus was a good man with a good philosophy, but that all the talk of the supernatural in the Bible was obviously nothing more than mythology.

My point was that religion has no place in politics or the courtroom, as it is a matter of personal opinion and choice rather than fact.

Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?#ixzz0upDZ0c36

[6year wait]

I actually believe we'll get a fairly quick rv as soon as the government is settled. This may be wishful thinking but it just makes sense. They want an rv just as much as we do, the correct steps just have to be taken, and from everything I've heard 2010 is the year it almost has to happen. I believe with most other countries this would have happened a long time ago, Iraq just seems to trapped in a time warp. Hopefully, all of our patience will be rewarded soon. It's been six and a half years for me and it's getting old, I hope the rewards are worth it when it happens. Let's keep the faith!

[Kimjackie]

If they want to go international on the ISX their stock exchange they have to have a tradeable currency and that ISX is scheduled to go international in Oct.