Enorrste, Agaperrk & Wille Chat 6-17

[Trimark]

CHAT on 6-17 with Enorrste, Agaperrk and Willie

Posted by RV4Me333 with help from Cessie on another site.

This is a really, really, really long chat but has some interesting stuff. Since it is so long and for the sake of everyone reading this thread, if you reply to this post please make sure that this big long chat isn't included in your response. TIA.

[enorrste] I have what you do; theories

[enorrste] How do you see this laying out, Agaperrk?

[agaperrk] I started because someone askedme if i thought that china was holding RV up

[enorrste] oh, yes

[enorrste] I'm not certain on that, butI believe it is possible

[enorrste] do you have a theory

[agaperrk] And I told them I do not have anyintel but from what I have read china wants Iraq to go first.

[enorrste] I've heard that also, but noproof yet

[agaperrk] and the reason is that Iraq is abig stone in the pond the ripple effect of the currency market will spread.

[enorrste] I think TK had that intel butno link

[agaperrk] right

[enorrste] nicely put, I like ripple

[agaperrk] and I do not want to get intointel because it is better to go from articles that are read

[enorrste] 100%yes, I agree 1

[agaperrk] I beleive that China does notwant to RV at all

[enorrste] now that is interesting; go on

[agaperrk] and the US is trying to force China to RV it will help with the loans that China holds over their head

[agaperrk] so we have a pissing contest with US and china

[enorrste] help the folks by explaining that, OK?

[agaperrk] We owe china so much money we will never pay out at current rate

[enorrste] yes, and?

[agaperrk] So something has to change the current to allow the US to pay back loans

agaperrk] IMO Unless the RI/RV happens the US is not going to do that.

[enorrste] if the dollar is devalued in comparison to the yuan, we pay back with cheaper currency

[enorrste] right?

[agaperrk] right

[agaperrk] but

[enorrste] ok, go on

[agaperrk] The US will use the RI RV to make the correction. Now Keep in mind this is only spec.

[enorrste] I got ya

[enorrste] How will the correction work,IYO?

[agaperrk] So They want Iraq to go let theripple take over and then come in and set their currency just high enough tomake international market and the US still wanting china to gohigher

[enorrste] OK, let me think on that amin.

[agaperrk] Giethner is spouting in the paperhow he wants to apply sanctions on china if they do not RV (personally that isa threat that cannot be backed up)

[enorrste] Why do you think that theinternational market has a different agenda than the US? Just asking?

[agaperrk] I do not think the agenda isdifferent i just feel like they will not be as upset with china as the US wouldbe if they do not go as high We want them

[enorrste] I had not seen the Geitnerstatement; seems a bit extreme to me

[agaperrk] OH it was it was a stupidstatement

[enorrste] OK, that makes sense

[enorrste] What level do you think theUS wants for the yuan?

[agaperrk] It is not that the agenda isdifferent it is that the international market has not teeth, the US has morebut they are filed off a bit with china because of the loans

[enorrste] agreed

[agaperrk] I feel to help the tradedifference better for the us economy is around 2.50

[enorrste] China has all the cards now,right?

[agaperrk] you are right

[enorrste] Do you believe that Chinawill go that far?

[enorrste] go willie!

[agaperrk] i beleive they want to go around4

[enorrste] wait, IQD or yuan?

[willie] I think China has us more ina head loc right now they hold alot of devt over our head and threaten the USwith because they know we cant pay it

[enorrste] right, willie

[enorrste] and?

[enorrste] sorry Aga, I was still on theyuan; no way 2.50

[agaperrk] Right now China is 6.87 I thinkchina only wants to move to around 4 or so. and the Us wants them to go to 2.50give or take a penny or to. the US has stated they want them to go at least 50%

[agaperrk] enorrste i know no way

[willie] them keeping their currencydown longer will do one thing and keep the US importing and nothing going infrom the US and they dont like veitnam stealing a little thunder from them

[agaperrk] I was stated what i felt the USwanted to go. not that it was getting there

[enorrste] right again, Willie, but thenwhat? We are looking ahead now, OK?

[willie] We can cry all we wantbecause we want them to buy our goods but its no good

[enorrste] What is the yuan today?

[willie] Until we can pay off some ofour debt then they may move

[enorrste] agreed again willie, but thenwhat? Look ahead

[scupwild] enorrste, if this article is accuratewould iraq have less pressure to rv if in fact there is no budget deficit? http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p ...d=aOZfF7nXGNTU

[agaperrk] Sorry if i typed in confusionhard to apply thoughts to a statement.

[enorrste] reading now

[dinarforever]enorrste agaperrk whats your take on dinar RV , arewe gonna see it before juneend?

[Tess] 6.87

[jlw] 6.8290

[jlw] on bloomberg

[willie] enorrste they will have shownthe world the power has shifted to another hand if they can make it look thatway

[enorrste] Zubaidi is right; they willcover the deficit with oil revenues

[agaperrk] dinarforever I feel it couldhappen at any time

[agaperrk] but after the PM announced

[enorrste] dinarforever we are still inthe middle of the chat; hang on, please

[enorrste] willie, expand on that; Ithink you are onto something

[enorrste] after willie we will talkIraqi politics, OK?

[willie] I know you getting to a worldcurrency but im not sure if we are ready for that in any time

[enorrste] I'm not getting anywhere;this is your forum now

[enorrste] but you have a point

[enorrste] make it

[willie] the Euro I think has shown usa small hiccup can cause the whole house of cards to fall down

[enorrste] very well stated

[willie] But China wants the power andthe king of the money to shift from the US thats our power the dollar and ourmillitary

[enorrste] are you saying this is a verydifficult and "orchestrated" phenomenon?

[enorrste] are you saying this is a verydifficult and "orchestrated" phenomenon?

[enorrste] well done, willie

[enorrste] go on

[agaperrk] I do feel that the whole currencymarket is orchestrated

[enorrste] we seem to be coming toward aconsensus..........

[willie] we cant continue to gain thespoil of wars and not spread ourselves to thin before someone like china can expoiltthat

[enorrste] dang me you are good!

[enorrste] go on; you are on a roll here

[agaperrk] If you feel i believe that theyare all moving to balance the currencies to move to one world currency I do

[willie] there is now doubt we knowAfghanistan had all those resources in their montains but realized hey we needthat oil first

[enorrste] that's a given at this point,but willie is moving us step by step, hopefully

[willie] then back to afganistan

[enorrste] I might help, a bit

[willie] which we are at that pointbut we need our money from iraq to continue this train on to next door

[willie] please go ahead

[enorrste] another kudo to yudo!

[agaperrk] willie that is right

[enorrste] money is the issue

[enorrste] so let's follow the money

[willie] if we spent a trillion wewant atleast 4-5 trillion back

[enorrste] or the lack of it

[enorrste] you are both right

[enorrste] Agaperrk has stated that weare BROKE, right?

[agaperrk] yes we are

[enorrste] or was that Iraq/

[enorrste] ?

[willie] o yes we all know and the imfis broke too

[agaperrk] So is IRaq though

[enorrste] Yet willie has rightly statedthat we are positioned in a way that we must continue if we are to win, right?

[willie] enorrste right

[enorrste] so the Iraq situation seemsto be in the middle of this, right?

[willie] enorrste ofcourse it is

[agaperrk] If not a little past

[willie] and china knows the amount ofmoney there thats why they are just now jumping

[enorrste] Now, before we get intopolitics, per se, let's talk a bit about how this might play out

[willie] in

[enorrste] right, willie; expand on thata bit

[willie] They are trying ****** up allthe oil contracts possible that they can becasue they fell they can tae somemore thunder from the US

[agaperrk] Yes that is a true statement

[enorrste] well, poorly spelled, butright after all!

[agaperrk] China wants all the thunder andare very defient

[enorrste] This is a big chess game,folks

[enorrste] This is a big chess game,folks

[willie] yeap

[enorrste] and the US knows it, andChina knows it

[willie] We have power but they havethe money

[enorrste] Europe is hoping to reap somespoils

[agaperrk] That is also the reason for thebig stategy on the currency

[agaperrk] That is also the reason for thebig stategy on the currency

[enorrste] but it is really about whowill rule the world in the next generation

[enorrste] did you get that?

[willie] Europe is hoping to be savedat this point

[enorrste] right, willie

[willie] yeap because honestly we ruleright now

[enorrste] And there is "muscleflexing" being done on both sides

[agaperrk] Yes and we are giving it away

[enorrste] but we have a great deal ofdebt, mostly to the Chinese

[enorrste] and so they think that theyare about to zzzzzzzzz ut

[enorrste] s

[willie] But if we can wipe it outwhat will china do then

[willie] Thats why they show up now!!!

[enorrste] good point, willie

[enorrste] What if this comes to ashowdown?

[enorrste] Irrespective of ourinvestment, folks

[willie] they know we could profitenough to pay our way out then all they have to old over us is gone and theylose all power or any chance of it

[willie] hold*

[enorrste] BINGO, Willie!

[willie] zzzzzzzzz

[enorrste] In the final analysis this isa serious game for these two countries

[enorrste] If the RV goes down, at anylevel, we win

[enorrste] BUT, if it goes down highenough, maybe, just maybe, China will hang in there

[willie] But it hink China is losingwhat ever grip they have to stop it due to the Euro collapse

[willie] think*

[big Money] I appreciate your conversation , butwhat about the trade deficiet, we continue to import, import, import EVERYTHINGfrom China

[enorrste] No, Deb, everyone wins at"their own level"

[enorrste] Big, we will pay off China witha single check, period, even at $1 for the IQD

[enorrste] but IF China can get the IQDhigh enough, then they will have a continuing play in the game

[enorrste] from their oil revenues fromIraq!

[enorrste] probably spend more, look

[big Money] how does effect the dong?

[willie] Big Money they wont allow thedong to do anything for now

[enorrste] the dong is the little toe ofthe Yuan

[enorrste] it will go wherever the FOOTgoes

[agaperrk] Agreed

[enorrste] and the foot is the yuan

[big Money] so we are not going to see anymovement on the dong?

[enorrste] Agaperrk, I need your inputnow

[Deborah] how long can China oilproduction

[enorrste] as long as needed. Money ispower

[agaperrk] What ever China does the VND will move with it

[enorrste]no money, no oil drilling

[Tess] buthonestly the big move would be for China to play the dong card and force thedinar to happpen and then come in after at less that we would like the Yuan tobe right

[willie]i told you so Madhi is a pawn

[enorrste]Tess , I do not think that China will "play the dongcard" until the IQD is settled

[agaperrk]I feel the big rock in the pond will cause the largest ripples

[enorrste]i told you so , if you will, let's continue with this thoughtand then move shortly into political questions, OK?

[agaperrk]and china is not the largest rock in the pond

[willie]jlw because dinar and iraq will become the center of the middleeast

agaperrk]Iraq is because it is moving farther than the others.

[agaperrk]Iraq is because it is moving farther than the others.

[enorrste]jlw when the IQD is revalued then Oil will be based on the IQD.And if not, then the IQD will be so great that WHATEVER the oil is based onwon't matter

[agaperrk]after iraq goes then china will know where it wants to place theyuan that will best contribute to the chinese market

[willie]China wants to stay low enough that we keep buying it cheapthere and not anywhere else

[agaperrk]I do feel right now is strategy on the placement of the currenciesto best help them selves.

[enorrste]ok, I'm back with you AGA, yes you are rifht

[enorrste]right

[enorrste]and willie is right also

[agaperrk]China wants to make sure and not go so low as tototally the manufacture end and US wants it high enough to helpeffect the trade deficits

[enorrste]this is a serious geo-political game being played here

[enorrste]and Iraq is the "king pin"

[enorrste]for both the US and China, IMO

[enorrste]yes, AGA, very well put

[agaperrk]enorrste on that statement there is never a truer statement

[willie]Iraq is the queen in this game its a game changer in one way oranother

[enorrste]but something must be done

[enorrste]we are all in the same vein now

[agaperrk]That is why iraq is the big rock in the pond and they know it.

[agaperrk]and are playing that ace as far as it will take them

[enorrste]Yes, they do know it, and that is important for us all torealize

[enorrste]these people are chess players (read my book!)

[willie]So the US doesnt really care what the RV/RI but China must pushfor it to be high

[enorrste]And when the final chips are played (to mix a metaphor)

[enorrste]And when the final chips are played (to mix a metaphor)

[willie]So its time to show our hands

[enorrste]Iraq will come out on top, folks, trust me

[agaperrk]Two ways to play any game defensive and offensive and China IMO isplaying a defensive game.

[enorrste]not really, AGA

[enorrste]they are in a "bluster" mode, IMO

[willie]Is china bluffing??

[agaperrk]Trying to push the cards and react to outcome

[agaperrk]and try and make them go in a certain direction.

[enorrste]I'm not convinced that China is "assured" of itsposition

[willie]agaperrk I think they are giving a big push to get it going intheir direction

[enorrste]In fact, I think that China is bluffing, willie

[enorrste]Because we hold most, if not all, of the cards

[enorrste]Think about it

[willie]just acting like they are like the two biggest dog in a yard

[enorrste]We run the UN/IMF/World Bank

[enorrste]effectively

[enorrste]and we "saved" Iraq

[enorrste]and we have created "democracy" in Iraq

[enorrste]and we hold off Iran

[enorrste]etc. etc. etc

[enorrste]AND, we are THERE

willie]yet china plays buddies with iran now

[enorrste]so, contracts aside, we are not going to be bluffed by China,IMO

[enorrste]in spite of our debt

[enorrste]which, after the RV, as China knows, will DISAPPEAR!

[willie]So their only chance will go out the window

[enorrste]so, they are bluffing to get the highest rate so that the paltryamount of DINARS that THEY hold will stand up to the MASSIVE amount that wehold

[willie]and we will continue on like we have and they will go back toplotting

[enorrste]yes, willie

[enorrste]exactly

[enorrste]We will, unless O stops it, break their backs in the next 20years

[enorrste]but unfortunately O will try to stop it, and that iswhere we enter into politics

[willie]I think O will have so much reversed when he is gone and therehas been too many years of work for one man to mess ti up

[enorrste]you may be right, willie

[enorrste]this is the hour, IMO

[willie]Because the president on;y has so much power

[agaperrk]willie That was his function in the entire plot

[enorrste]either we correct it this fall, or we will disappear as acountry (in terms of freedom)

[agaperrk]enorrste correct

[enorrste]hold up

[willie]enorrste there are to man men been there since O was in diapersthat will not allow this to happen

[willie]many men*

[willie]thats what happen when u write O b a m a

[agaperrk]enorrste They set the site up to say that as a joke, they did thatbefore we got so big

[willie]

[doughboi]enorrste they just so disrespectful to our pres

[bluejeanbaby] enorrste , sorry O b a ma

[agaperrk]So you have to know how and type you cannot say A d a m or O S A maand a few others

[enorrste]OK, ready to go back to Iraq?

[enorrste]And the political situation there, if there is one?

[willie]enorrste but there have to be a few fiancial guru's that arewarning O if we dont handle this now we will fall

[enorrste]I got the tail end of Agaperrk's theory on how this is playingout

[ATLTom]enorrste For some odd reason alot of people i spoke too are skeptical wretherthis will actually happen this month or not, and i keep reassuring them thatwhen it's ready, it's ready. I just cant give them a point of view that meansworth of crap, Think you could enlighten us a little on if you think it willhappen this month or not?

[agaperrk]Look just look for steps and do not look for a time frame becauseyou will go c r a z y with that.

[willie]but get ready because those steps may be leaps and bounds andfast

[enorrste]Agaperrk, you are right; take the floor; let's talk about the"process" now, politically

[enorrste]summer if you want to join this conversation I welcome you.Please expand on your comments

[summer]wheres our leverage in exchange for the war in Iraq? Why did wenot forsee china buying 78% of oil fields .why did we not leverage ourselvesagainst china knowing they need oil?in exchange for the war owning those oilfields ourselves?

[enorrste]one point at a time, please

[ATLTom]enorrste Where are we in steps? I havent been following Steps too much,because, Quite frankly, I wasn't aware of any steps that remained *facepalm

[enorrste]not so easy; you have a good point; make it

[enorrste]hang on ATL, please

[enorrste]OK, let's talk on this

[agaperrk]The only reason I look for steps is I have been in this a year nowand I have heard many rates and dates and the first 50 times i heard them ijump and got excited, then in october it showed up on the market. and I reallythought I was rich for at least 8 hrs

[enorrste]Has China really bought up 78% of the oil in Iraq

[enorrste]?

[willie]doubtfull its illegal for foreigners to own property

[summer]was read somewhere

[willie]it may just be another bluff

[enorrste]bingo

[agaperrk]So I look for things that bring us to RI/RV and since i believe theRate is also in the budget what will it take to get the budget introduced intothe market

[bluejeanbaby] contracts?

[enorrste]so if anyone has leverage, who does?

[willie]The Us ofcourse

[ATLTom]Sarah palin?

[youngLiz] willie...leases not ownership

[enorrste]right, willie; wrong ATL

[enorrste]but the leverage exists in the US, right?

[willie]ofcourse we paid with good men and women and lots of $$$$

[enorrste]and China has been trying to "obtain" leverage throughcontracts, right?

[willie]yeap and playong buddy game with iran

[willie]playing*

[cigarman]Remember guys US controls IMF!!

[enorrste]but the US signed contracts with Iraq way before China was in thegame

[enorrste]at $32 per barrel!

[willie]in hoper Iran got enough play in the goverment game

[agaperrk]enorrste I was under the impression at 34 but that is a moot point

[enorrste]So, we are now at the point where EVERYONE outside of Iraq wantsthis done, IMO

[willie]enorrste I have heard that is about right

[RV4Me333]young Liz a cartel more like

[Dinarlady2010] But TK said several timesthat China has 78 percent of the Oil.... He says China has the control andedge, or did I just read it worng?

[agaperrk]enorrste agreeded

[enorrste]you two are funny!

[agaperrk]agreed

[agaperrk]enorrste keeping you on your toes

[ATLTom]enorrste, Politicians talk about China's RV Out Loud in Public and in Media,Why dont we ever hear anything about Iraq's RV in media, or publically?

[agaperrk]You cannot say i did not help with some info

[enorrste]Dinarlady2010 , I am not aware of that statement by TK; I willnot refute it; I will just say that it has not been "established",yet

[enorrste]Dinarlady2010 , I am not aware of that statement by TK; I willnot refute it; I will just say that it has not been "established",yet

[enorrste]ATL has a very good point

[enorrste]willie, or AGA, do you have an opinion on why the IQD RV is notdiscussed more?

[enorrste]that's a start; any more?

[ATLTom]No seriously, I think about that to my self all day long. How is it that wehear SOOO Much about China's RV publically, but never hear anything about Iraq's?HELL We even hear about Vietnams RV That's in the works straight from Dung himself.

[willie]they dont want it too be because the less money out there thebetter

[agaperrk]enorrste Because it will change the complexion of the entirecurrency market and they really do not know the entire effect. so it would bebetter left alone and see what happen. Also if they did the speculator wouldkill iraq, "george soros" he problably is already

[agaperrk]enorrste Because it will change the complexion of the entirecurrency market and they really do not know the entire effect. so it would bebetter left alone and see what happen. Also if they did the speculator wouldkill iraq, "george soros" he problably is already

enorrste]Wow! I opened "Pandora's Box"!

[willie]yeap

[agaperrk]has to an extent, not every speculator is buddy buddy with O so ifthose guys new then iraq would really have a hard time to RV

[enorrste]The question is truly important

[richard]enorrste may I offer some speculation

[enorrste]sure richard

[richard]political funding has been extrem for the left. The liberals wouldlike to see an equally poor citizenship. If to much is made of this, it justmight tip the economicl balance to the right politicaly

[enorrste]I love speculation; it just takes a while to get printed, rightrichard?

[willie]richard true very true

[enorrste]Are you talking domestically?

[richard]Yes

[enorrste]This is like Biblical studies; you either read what it says, oryou read "into" what it says

[agaperrk]enorrste and it depends on the context of what you are reading

[enorrste]Sorry, Richard, the US political situation is not a part of thisequation, yet

[enorrste]this has nothing to do with "our" situation, yet

[enorrste]except from the US point of view

[enorrste]'which is only ONE part of the puzzle, although a big part

[willie]enorrste can we jump on the iraq politics on whats going on now

[enorrste]yes!

[enorrste]I would welcome your perspective on how you think this will playout, both for Iraq and for our investment; you too, AGA

[willie]Because I see it this way if China has so much pull in Iraq youdont see them trying to help any way in politics

[enorrste]Is that a question?

[willie]yes a little of both statement and question

[agaperrk]Personally I believe the entire world will be dependent on Iraq orthe ME area. But that is for another discussion

[willie]agaperrk no we totally are

[willie]if the turned off their oil we would all squirm

[agaperrk]How this will play out is their is gov i believe is set and they areintroducing test balloons into the public to get back public opinion on whatthey can introduce next

[agaperrk]Like bombings veses a statement in the paper

[agaperrk]verses

[willie]We see the US ambassador over there scrambling like a mad manover there too

[agaperrk]as for out investment, Iraq has been coy with their rate and withtheir date which tells me two things, ONe on the rate it is very high if it waslow then the whole world would be aware of it. LIKE china and the VND

[willie]young Liz they are going the wrong way about it they cant starvepeople of iraq like the do their own in china

[agaperrk]and the date since they are chess people they have a strategicplacement for the IQD

[enorrste]aga, I'm interested in your "test balloon" theory

[enorrste]Please expand on that a bit, if you will

right over the net left and we look one way and then the other. Iraqwant us to be looking the oppsite when it happens.

[agaperrk]Look when we read article it is like a tennis match over the netright over the net left and we look one way and then the other. Iraq want us tobe looking the oppsite when it happens.

[enorrste]That soundOK but it doesn't move the ball forward, does it?

[enorrste]I know you had a theory earlier and I just missed it. Let'sexplore that, if you will

[enorrste]Policitally, in Iraq

[willie]Well i think it may just be a step for a fast attack method herewe are this is what we want, vote, and done

[enorrste], sorry

[agaperrk]Since everything has a purpose even the article that do not haveanything to do with the situation but mention it give the people a reason tovoice an opinion. the wild card in the whole affair is sistani, he can changethe game with a statement if he is unhappy, Like now because he needselectricity

[enorrste]willie, I think I agree with you, but you are too cryptic

[willie]They are going to agree as one group

[willie]walk in parliment since it still opne

[willie]vote

[enorrste]Interesting, AGA, how again is Sistani a key player?

[willie]seat everyone and swear them in in a short period of time

[agaperrk]We have a political process that want to separate church and state,Over there it is ok to have a state but the cleric really can tell the statewhat when where and how the cow ate the cabage and the gov. knows it. hence thetest balloons,

[mstork]willie it will almost certainly happen that way, as even sideshave stated just that, that all three main positions will happen in one setting

[anthony_atl]dinardude@gmail.com

[anthony_atl]got it

[agaperrk]So the key player in the entire process is the cleric, he can causethe people to settle down or to rise up with one statement.

[willie]enorrste agaperrk The closer they get the uglier the news mayget and alot more news of groups changing their minds and hating each othermore, because it all controled what is said

[agaperrk]The political process over there seems to be start the process hidego behind close doors come up with a decision 1 nano second before they have toand announce and then go behind close door and argue and plot more, through outtest balloons when done, Bam do it in one day and be over , then hide again.

[willie]agaperrk yeap thats what is happening

[enorrste]I agree with Agaperrk

[enorrste]I read the link

[enorrste]But I do not think that Sistani will, in the end, have the finalsay

[enorrste]This country has been "created again" by the USA

[agaperrk]So if that is the deal we have to assume that the process is doneand waiting for the time to introduce,

[enorrste]and it will not become an radical Muslim nation

[enorrste]period

[enorrste]yes, Aga

[enorrste]China is blustering for position, IMO

[willie]agaperrk yes that is what i think they are doing but they may betrying to finish up everything with CH 7 to be done so its ALL DONE

[enorrste]as I have said

[agaperrk]again allawi to me is the PM 1) because the ambassador annoucedallawi to get government moving quickly,

[enorrste]OK, we now enter the politics of Iraq

[enorrste]Here is what I see, if anyone cares

[ATLTom]I care

[willie]agaperrk he has been to quiet this whole time to not knowanything

[agaperrk]then retracted i do not feel he was that dumb when he said it, juststating a fact and then said the leader ship of iraq. S

[enorrste]The creation of the National Alliance was a great idea

[enorrste]but it was too little and too late

[willie]or to lazy and though they could push people around

[enorrste]at the same time Allawi (Iraqiya) has been doing his"thing" on the side lines

[agaperrk]2) Maliki is the only person sc reaming if allawi had lost he wouldbe sc reaming to.

[enorrste]defending his right constitutionally

[enorrste]defending his right constitutionally

[enorrste]that is a pretty strong position, really

[willie]enorrste he sure did alot of traveling and hand shaking while Mwas throwing his fits in Iraq

[enorrste]And, he has, IMO, won over the Kurdish Alliance

[enorrste]So he now has his 91 seats and their 70 seats, right?

[enorrste]So, in theory, it is 161 to 163

[enorrste]both very close

[enorrste]However!

[willie]yes and he should easily be able to pull a few others

[enorrste]the new National Alliance has stated that they have two newcandidates

[enorrste]and then today they narrowed it down to one candidate

[enorrste]who is Mahdi, not Maliki

[agaperrk]3) in the chap 7 they are receiving tanks from russia andfertilizer. which are against the sanctions of the chap 7 so they are notabiding in the chapt 7

[enorrste]So it is now Mahdi against Allawi, simply put (I think Ipredicted something like this)

[willie]enorrste yes you did

[enorrste]Aga, I'm on a thought here, OK?

[enorrste]I will make a prediction

[enorrste]Mahdi and Allawi, over this weekend, will come to terms on a newgovernment

[enorrste]I care not who is PM or Pres

[agaperrk]enorrste agreed

[enorrste]although I SUSPECT that Mahdi will end up PM

[enorrste]sorry, must regroup here

[enorrste]OK, got it

[enorrste]Mahdi will break away from the National Alliance just formed

[enorrste]IMO

[agaperrk]enorrste I feel allawi will be just because of the position or faceto the people, they voted for him.

[willie]i agree

[enorrste]and join with Allawi, and the Kurds

[willie]havent they both said they will support each other

[enorrste]to form a UNIFIED gov't, as the US/UN/IMF want

[enorrste]but I will say this: Maliki will not get a second term, IMO

[willie]enorrste question

[enorrste]In any case

[enorrste]go, willie

[willie] If Mdoes not have the protection how quickly will they go after him??

[enorrste]who cares?

[willie]true but i think he deserve to pay

[enorrste]like Saddam

[enorrste]yes

[enorrste]but now they are a "democracy"

[enorrste]so who knows what will happen

[enorrste]?

[enorrste]In any case

[willie]Iran is hating the thought of that too

[enorrste]I suspect that the influence of John Hill and his assistantFerlment, or whatever his name is

[enorrste]will prove to be the catalyst to get this thing done

[enorrste]These two have been given the task, IMO, to 'git 'er'done

[enorrste]NOW

[enorrste]and I envision a parliament that will meet sometime next week

[enorrste]and rubber stamp a new gov/t

[enorrste]yes

[agaperrk]1) Maliki is doing the scre aming, 2) if allawi was losing he wouldbe scr eaming 3) Ambassador announce Allawi as PM 4) to me on the way outMaliki is trying to cover the wrong doing he did.

[agaperrk]and yes i to feel the gov will be announced soon, i just do not knowwhen

[agaperrk]only because i felt it should have been done month ago,

[enorrste]China, IMO, will RV at the last possible moment and only becausethe entire world insists upon it. They have NO incentive to RV

[agaperrk]And i am still talking about it.

[willie]Im with enorrste on this one agaperrk it will happen fast andbefore june is over

[enorrste]right, willie; a done deal; behind doors, US influence great,and then announced

[willie]agaperrk Hill has been everywhere or it has seemd that way

[enorrste]after that the RV will occur, IMO, within days

[agaperrk]willie I am not saying it will not , I am saying that i feel soon tojust do not know the when, to me the auctions seem to be a tell tell sign ifthey do not start up on sunday

[agaperrk]willie I am not saying it will not , I am saying that i feel soon tojust do not know the when, to me the auctions seem to be a tell tell sign ifthey do not start up on sunday

[enorrste]I think that all will go together; think about this:

[willie]enorrste do u think ch7 will be lifted then RV hours later??

[enorrste]if China is involved in this, which they apparently are,

[enorrste]then that means that Vietnam is also involved as well, right?

[willie]right

[agaperrk]I do think when the PM is announced that within 48 hrs the Chp 7release, the HCL done and the budget released.

[enorrste]so when one goes, they all go.

[willie]agaperrk yeap

[agaperrk]which will cause the RI

[agaperrk]I do think when the PM is announced that within 48 hrs the Chp 7release, the HCL done and the budget released.

[enorrste]Ok, one at a time

[enorrste]Ch 7 has been a hang up, IMO

[enorrste]due to Maliki, almost entirely

[agaperrk]I have no problem with the quick deployment of the info,

[enorrste]It was a quid pro quo for him; *** for tat

[enorrste]but the election came and he began losing control

[enorrste]so he held off as long as he could, with his "RV"card, while the UN held the "CH7" card

[enorrste]He truly wants sovereignty

[enorrste]but has now lost the helm of the wheel

[enorrste]so we are at an impass

[enorrste]in which no one has the wheel of state, so to speak

[enorrste]So, IMO, as soon as the wheel of state is passed to anotherperson

[enorrste]regardless whether a new government is truly formed

[enorrste]the RV, as willie says, will happen within 48 hours, or so, IMO

[enorrste]Chaper 7 could still present a problem, however, and thatbothers me a birt

[enorrste]bit

[enorrste]because the UN could have released the entire Kuwait/Iraq matterto them bilaterally, but didn't

[agaperrk]enorrste they are in a pissing contest to.

[enorrste]So there is a level of "control" being still held bythe UN, IMO

[enorrste] yes,aga, a psssssssing contest

[willie]Thats when the IMF could easily tell the UN look this needs tobe freed now to clear alot of issues up quickly they are all struggling with

[agaperrk]the UN wants the elections done and the gov formed so they can havethis stable country " L O L"

[agaperrk]so they hold the Chp 7 over their head and say when you are done wewill lift,

[enorrste]Yes, aga, that is their "front" statement

[enorrste]but more to the point is this question:

[agaperrk]the Iraqi say as soon as you lift the chp 7 we will form gov and RI

[enorrste]Why the hold up, since the US/IMF/UN want this RV done?

[agaperrk]and neither one hold a better position than the other

[enorrste]After all, Ban Ki Moon could have let Iraq/Kuwait work this outthemselves, right?

[agaperrk]Yes

[enorrste]I mean, Iraq sent an Ambassador to Kuwait, for god's sake!

[enorrste]So why not give it up, from the UN point of view?

[enorrste]I don't yet get that

[Ronin7043]i think i do

[enorrste]go ronin

[agaperrk]In my opinion the chap 7 is done, too many article saying kuwaitwants iraq out of chap 7 and how much they love to work with them, No i willstay that the UN is trying to get Iraq to finish their homework sorry for thepun

[willie]Well they could be waiting to see if Kuwait and Iraq newgoverment is going to agree and get along

[willie]Well they could be waiting to see if Kuwait and Iraq newgoverment is going to agree and get along

[agaperrk]and holding the chp 7 as the carrot that they can have after done.

[Ronin7043] jmhoi think UN IMF do not want M as PM or in any power, so they are holding this up

[enorrste]no, willie, they agreed when the ambassador went to Kuwait;that's a done deal

[enorrste]Ronin, M is already out

[willie]Ronin7043 they now he wont have any

[willie]enorrste the UN could just be wating for Iraq to show their handthen follow suite

[agaperrk]So here we are again just trying to find a key component to pushthis over, I feel the gov is done, they are hiding the outcome as best theycan. And will continue to do so unless sistani yells at them

[agaperrk]There is a purpose for the hidden outcome and only they know.

[willie]agaperrk true

[enorrste]Well, willie, I think that the UN is in control of Iraq, believeit or not, and that will amaze some folks here

[agaperrk]And it could be the Blitzkrieg attack with info so much that no onecan react to it,.

[enorrste]And, yes, Aga, there is a component.

[willie]And think if the UN didnt feel they were ready to be releasedthen why would the IMF only give them just enough money to get by for a shortperiod of time

[enorrste]I'm begining to believe that Iraq is as much a pawn in this aswe are. Honestly

[willie]agaperrk thats what I feel it will be

[enorrste]right, willie!

[willie]because if the UN didnt think they were ready the would havegranted that last loan they asked for

[enorrste]It's not that it won't happen

[willie]it's when

[enorrste]It is that the "powers that be" are pushing this tothe absolute limit to get the most out of it, IMO

[enorrste]So the question is this: what does the WORLD want out of this?

[enorrste]and:

[agaperrk]Look we can second guess all night long and that could be the wholething in a nut shell smoke and mirror, it makes the gove have a position ofbeing able to do about anything until public.

[enorrste]Why is the WORLD holding this up?

[magnum]Where does that put us???

[enorrste]I believe that we should start looking toward a much larger"focus" for this event.

[agaperrk]magnum in a chat forum talking about the iraqi events.

[enorrste]That goes beyond the borders of Iraq, frankly

[willie]the entire middle east

[enorrste]As I've said before, this isn't just an RV of a currency

[enorrste]It is the most important event of the rest of our lives.

[enorrste]Seriously

[willie]enorrste We want democracy to succed there to show others it canwork any where

enorrste]So we need to start looking at it from a global perspective,rather than an Iraqi perspective

[cdledbetter2] Thiscould be like the start of a Horse Race where there is trouble getting one ortwo of the horses in the Starting Gate...and the same could be happening intrying to get the 11 in the Basket to get lined up to RV together.

[willie]If the people of Iran see iraq prospering we will for sure seeIran goverment change

[agaperrk]willie yes but that is not the world intension

[willie]yes it is this is a way to kill communist ways

[enorrste]Otherwise, why would Biden, Hill, and Fertment be in Iraqpushing for a "unified" gov't?

[agaperrk]willie you are thinking like an american

[agaperrk]willie world does not care for that,

[enorrste]yes, willie, slow down and think larger

[enorrste]much larger

10:37PM [RV4Me333] Itis a global reboot of economies.

10:37PM [enorrste] bingo

10:38PM [enorrste] whosaid that?

10:38PM [agaperrk] williematter of fact we are losing american values by the bundles everytime O b amaopens his mouth

10:38PM [willie] patti

10:38PM [RV4Me333] Moi!

10:38PM [enorrste] Oh,Moi; I should have known LOL

10:38PM [enorrste] really,aga, this is much bigger than O

10:39PM [enorrste] whichis why there is patience in the process, IMO

10:39PM [enorrste] Theyare setting up a total "reboot" as Patti has said

10:39PM [agaperrk] enorrsteO is a pawn for the world leaders

10:39PM [enorrste] andit will have to work perfectly, or fail miserably

10:40PM [enorrste] yes,aga, he is

10:40PM [RV4Me333] OKI am chiming in. If it is true that the IMF gave developing countries loans inDinar, the whole world will prosper from Iraq's RV. It is a way to literallystart over EVERYWHERE and BAIL OUT EVERYBODY.

10:40PM [agaperrk] everytimehe opens his mouth he is doing what he is told to do

10:40PM [agaperrk] RV4Me333it could be.

10:40PM [RV4Me333] whocan log the chat? Cessie needs to leave.

10:40PM [enorrste] thatis a big IF, Patti, but I subscribe to the theory

10:40PM [willie] RV4Me333 very easily

10:40PM [cessie] RV4Me333 Read im please

10:41PM [agaperrk] enorrsteit is a big theory it is so big I can't even see the theory

10:41PM [enorrste] IMO,in the final analysis, I really believe that this will happen

10:41PM [enorrste] Andsoon, really

10:42PM [enorrste] Butthe risks are great for all concerned (not including us)

10:42PM [enorrste] soI understand the hesitation

10:42PM [enorrste] IFthe big powers of the world are relying on this single event

10:42PM [enorrste] asI suspect they are

10:42PM [enorrste] fora World Changing event of their own

10:43PM [enorrste] thenthey would be wise to play it out cautiously and slowly, as they have

10:43PM [willie] theycant wait to long with the fear of civil war though

10:43PM [enorrste] (doI sound like a pumper now? LOL)

10:43PM [willie] nope

10:43PM [cessie] Willsomeone please volunteer to copy and paste chat. IM me please

10:43PM [enorrste] willie,I agree with you again, for the umpteenth time!

10:44PM [willie] lol

10:44PM [enorrste] Theyare literally playing with fire now

10:44PM [enorrste] bothcivally

10:44PM [enorrste] andpolitically

10:44PM [big Earl] especiallysince people are not getting paid......

10:44PM [willie] wellthey have to know the people are tired of waiting and they are armed we allknow that

10:44PM [RV4Me333] cessieI'm doing it, just go ahead and go...thank you!

10:44PM [enorrste] andneed to come to a conclusion (read RV here) soon

10:44PM [agaperrk] Nowthey are playing the tight rope game with the people

10:45PM [enorrste] yes,aga, and it will get worse if they do not act soon, IMO

10:45PM [enorrste] Istill foresee this coming together quickly, even maybe next week

10:45PM [agaperrk] enorrsteyep when you start to see the articles about the unrest it is far worse thanthe article

10:45PM [enorrste] becauseof the pressure from the US and others we don't know about

10:45PM [willie] agaperrkyes it is

10:46PM [enorrste] sowe should look for a re-opening of parliament next week, right?

10:46PM [willie] yes weshould

10:46PM [agaperrk] enorrsteI will only say that I feel a PM needs to be announce, if it happen todaytomorrow or next week, after that i feel with in 48 hrs it will be done.

10:46PM [enorrste] andan "announcement" of a new coalition

10:47PM [big Earl] enorrstesir can I ask question

10:47PM [enorrste] includingthe naming of the PM slot (with reduced powers) and the 3 presidencies

10:47PM [enorrste] in10 days or less (my prediction)

10:47PM [agaperrk] BigEarl only if you send 500,000 dinar, it helps with the answer

10:47PM [enorrste] yesEarl

10:47PM [agaperrk] L OL

10:47PM [enorrste] andstop the Sir thing, please; I'm just ME

10:47PM [willie] agaperrkroflmao

10:48PM [enorrste] askPatti; I'm drunk usually at this hour!

10:48PM [agaperrk] italso will bring many blessings and i think 70 virgins and a couple of people icould not give to the camel jockey

10:48PM [RV4Me333] enorrstelet's call it tipsy

10:48PM [big Earl] howmuch longer can this go on, with people, "(government officals, parliment,military) not getting paid, and they don't seem to really care about the effectthat it is having on their people..

10:49PM [enorrste] ActuallyI think that this is where Allawi will have the advantage

10:49PM [RV4Me333] Doesn'tthe loan they got carry them through June?

10:49PM [enorrste] Heis "on record" as having stated clearly that the people should comefirst

10:49PM [willie] RV4Me333 barely its only 440 million

10:49PM [enorrste] WhereasMaliki has never mentioned the people, period

10:49PM [agaperrk] BigEarl In my opinion they have carried it too long already. so to carry it muchlonger is a very dangerous game.

10:49PM [enorrste] Inthis, he is winning over the folks

10:49PM [Ronin7043] enorrsteiraq has a four day celebration coming up july 1 what if they want to announceit on the 30th june to mix it in with the celebration?

10:50PM [enorrste] and,IMO, will come out as a "national leader", and may well end up withthe PM slot

10:50PM [enorrste] asI have predicted

10:50PM [doughboi] wowyou all are still going

10:50PM [willie] Ronin7043what celebration is it do you know

10:50PM [shalom babe] just ME uh..enorrste , can I ask a question?

10:50PM [agaperrk] shalombabe another 500,000 dinar, my answers are clearer

10:50PM [enorrste] ronin;no commetn

10:51PM [enorrste] comment

10:51PM [enorrste] shalom,go for it

10:51PM [RV4Me333] PLEASEBE NICE TO ME (the one copying this) and have ONE PERSON ask questions at atime. TY

10:51PM [enorrste] funnyaga!

10:51PM [agaperrk] roflmao

10:51PM [shalom babe] if Allwai does not assume as Pm won't this cause great doubt among theIraqi people concernig democratic and fair voting?

10:51PM [enorrste] goodquestion

10:52PM [enorrste] Isuspect that Allawi and Mahdi will end up with the PM and President of theRepublic positions

10:52PM [shalom babe] I mean isn't this what they have SAID this is all about

10:52PM [enorrste] Thiswill be a true unified gov't

10:52PM [agaperrk] enorrstei go with Allawi

10:52PM [enorrste] andthey may even switch places after two years

10:53PM [willie] Im withAllawi too

10:53PM [enorrste] ButI also believe that the powers of the PM will be curtailed so that the twopositions noted above will be roughly equal

10:53PM [agaperrk] okwe have the odds now

10:53PM [enorrste] Hereis the problem:

10:54PM [enorrste] Thisis a Shia country

10:54PM [enorrste] andit has voted, narrowly, for a Sunni gov't

10:54PM [agaperrk] Saythat fast 5 time see where it takes you

10:54PM [enorrste] butthe reality is that it is Shia

10:54PM [enorrste] NowAllawi is Shia,

10:54PM [enorrste] buthas a Sunni following

10:54PM [RV4Me333] agaperrksh sh sh shia (chia pet song) OK that is just wrong...please, go on. We are allgiddy.

10:55PM [agaperrk] Itis his Sheep deorderant

10:55PM [enorrste] so,If they SHARE there will be a Shia gov't

10:55PM [enorrste] witha Shia leader, no matter what

10:55PM [willie] verytrue

10:55PM [enorrste] thx,willie

10:55PM [enorrste] Butthere is more

10:56PM [enorrste] becauseonly Allawi can bring the Kurds to the table

10:56PM [enorrste] inorder to form a truly unified gov't

10:56PM [enorrste] andhe will

10:56PM [shalom babe] What about the whey?

10:56PM [enorrste] sohe may end up PM, with limited power

10:56PM [enorrste] overa Shia gov't

10:57PM [enorrste] withthe Kurds, Sunnis and State of Law and INA all in a cute little bundle

10:57PM [enorrste] asI predicted

10:57PM [enorrste] Hehappens to be liked by the US; did I mention that/

10:57PM [enorrste] ?

10:57PM [big Earl]Mr. Enorrste, one last question if I may

10:57PM [Quantum] Allawi has the trust of the tribal mentality of the people,so he should make a good leader.

10:57PM [enorrste]go Biggie!

10:57PM [agaperrk]Big Earl another 500,000

10:58PM [agaperrk]helps me think

10:58PM [willie] agaperrk im going to have to get in on that lol

10:58PM [enorrste]Hey, AGA, who owes me how much, now?

10:58PM [agaperrk]We are way up there,

10:59PM [enorrste]I like "up there"; can I buy a dinnerwith "up there"?

10:59PM [big Earl]So what kind of timeline are we looking at here (inyour opinon, not holding you to anything) for this to be over with? and thelastest it can last?

10:59PM [agaperrk]I will give you a %

10:59PM [big Earl]enorrste I will take you to Black Angus..

10:59PM [enorrste]Well, Big, I will tell you what I think, butonly that

10:59PM [agaperrk]Let me

10:59PM [enorrste]Soon

10:59PM [big Earl]fair enough

10:59PM [willie] Very soon

10:59PM [enorrste]That's all I can say

10:59PM [big Earl]eleborate on that maybe

11:00PM [enorrste]Unlike the other Amigos, I gave up with CrystalBall shaking about 2 months ago

11:00PM [agaperrk]I need to earn my money

11:00PM [RV4Me333]agaperrk go for it

11:00PM [enorrste]your turn AGA

11:01PM [enorrste]hmmmm

11:01PM [Ronin7043]i see the number 30 in my crystal balls lol

11:02PM [enorrste]meaning?

11:02PM [RV4Me333]Ronin7043 u mean in ur poker chips

11:02PM [Ronin7043]right before the celebration

11:02PM [Ronin7043]RV4Me333 lol

11:02PM [agaperrk]I know you look for specific timelines but there isnot a way to give it, the only way to put it is look for the steps to RI whenthe PM is announce then it will be a very fast conclusion, and they need a PMsoon, There is also a timeline set out by the election committee, me and storkfiqured that the latest it could possibly go is the first of aug and as soon astomorrow

11:03PM [RV4Me333]agaperrk and so it is

11:03PM [enorrste]I like your level of "precision",agaperrk!

11:04PM [enorrste]So there you have it, folks

11:04PM [enorrste]somehow between now and whenever! Guaranteed!

11:04PM [agaperrk]We have got to get away from dates to RI/RV

11:04PM [summer] funny

11:04PM [enorrste]Or, maybe August

11:04PM [agaperrk]and look for steps

11:04PM [willie] great dat e

11:04PM [ineeddinar]What about the redonomination of the currency ondecember 30?

11:04PM [puregold]WOW! Thanks Willie, Aga & E! This has beenquite a learning experience! And everyone else who participated, especiallyCessie for all her copying and pasting! And RV4Me333 I love you guys!

11:04PM [enorrste]And then there are the "steps"

11:05PM [dee] This has been very enlightening thank you guys forsharing all of your thoughts and researched, and evaluated information.Iappreciate you all

11:05PM [agaperrk]you all need to stand up and follow my lead Hi I am"state your name" dinaraholic and i now want to state that now. Iwould like to appoligize to my family for so many hrs on the Computer tracking down articles that I don't even understand just toget someone with the name of Enorreste to explain it to me. Also i vow toeveryday not be so interested in the dinar, even though i know we will one dayhave lots of money from it and the fact someone is on here pumping somethingwith a name of gotalottadong does not mean it is a porn site. I also vow that Iwill turn away from chatting on a chat site and return to just emailing familymembers, and not try and convince them that this is not a scam. [ after youquote this then you are healed from following the dong or dinar affliction]

11:05PM [willie] enorrste agaperrk thanks you guys for letting me jump inthere

11:06PM [agaperrk]willie you are welcome.

11:06PM [RV4Me333]Now who wants to volunteer to take this chatand post in forum? It's not as easy as it sounds!!!

11:07PM [cessie] RV4Me333 I can do it. Justemail me what you have and I will do it tomorrow morning. It's not that hard.

11:07PM [winstonz]funny [enorrste] So there you have it, folks[enorrste] somehow between now and whenever! Guaranteed! funny

11:07PM [young Liz]patti, (RV4Me333) summed it up perfectly," this is a rebooting of theglobal economy!"

11:07PM [summer] now funny

11:08PM [Tess] young Liz well it is sure gonna reboot mine

11:08PM [RV4Me333]young Liz aww ty

11:08PM [young Liz]tess, all around!

11:08PM [young Liz]tess, all around!

11:08PM [Tess] good job boys mama is proud a ya

11:08PM [CAROLINA GIRL]Thanks for all the great info and good nite to all!

11:08PM [Ronin7043]Carolina girl gn

11:08PM [winstonz]willie agaperrk RV4Me333 cessie thankyou

11:08PM [workbunch]enorrste Thank you for your time wisdom. I needed it.Get my Fix.

11:08PM [puregold]CAROLINA GIRL gn

11:09PM [cessie] Thank you to everyone still here for allowing thespeakers to speak with little interruption. It made my job and RV4Me333's much easier.

11:09PM [cessie] RV4Me333 Do you want to dothat?

11:09PM [winstonz]u2 steve

11:09PM [justbelieve]thank you all. great job . good night and sweetdreamsbye bye bye bye bye

11:09PM [agaperrk]enorrste The way i have it figured, there are 364days i can be wrong, and only 1 day i can be right which is easier to guess.

11:09PM [willie] cessie RV4Me333 thank you ladies

11:09PM [puregold]justbelieve bye

11:09PM [young Liz]RV4Me333,neurologically speaking, girl babies develope language skills earlier than boybabies...good job patti

11:09PM [RV4Me333]willie thank you brainiac

11:10PM [willie] Tess well as long as momma is proud

11:10PM [summer] very interesting conversation in deed.

11:10PM [puregold]agaperrk funny

11:10PM [RV4Me333]kurds and whey

11:10PM [Tess] Ronin7043 hey see at world poker tour is on

11:10PM [enorrste]I'm thinking that a more cautious approach maybe appropriate, giving the odds, of course

11:10PM [RV4Me333]oooooh, more from the professor

11:10PM [Tess] willie yup

11:10PM [Ronin7043]Tess i'm all in

11:10PM [willie] Its hot tub time for me!!!

11:10PM [agaperrk]and if i am wrong by give a way out date and ithappens sooner who will care as they drive past me to the bank to cash in.

11:10PM [Tess] willie me too

11:11PM [RV4Me333]agaperrk under promise and over deliver

11:11PM [cessie] willie I wish I had one.

11:11PM [agaperrk]RV4Me333 you got that right

11:11PM [willie] cessie im house sitting lol

11:11PM [enorrste]Oh, calling me now!

11:11PM [RV4Me333]willie go in the hot tub time machine andtell us the RV date

11:12PM [willie] RV4Me333 thats backwardsbut you will be on toddle if that happens not google

11:12PM [cessie] RV4Me333 Yea or nayplease. I'm going to bed.

11:12PM [big Earl]or maybe you could tell us about the "watermelon

11:12PM [RV4Me333]cessie go to bed, I'm getting organized

11:12PM [Mysticwoman]Big Earl That's the guy's last name in arabic

11:12PM [willie] Big Earl i just want to know is that really his name

11:12PM [Mysticwoman]willie yes

Edited June 18, 2010 by Trimark

[Trimark]

I'm sorry but I'm unable to edit it any longer and it doesn't give me the option to delete it. I apologize for posting such a long chat. I just thought it was interesting. Again, my apologies.

[justin88]

Maximus I think if you would stop messing with people and took some time and read this there is alot of good information in this alot more than whats has been posted anywhere else in awhile

[inheritance]

Thanks for the post! You really could not take much out to tell you the truth.

[LittleMissGrits]

All of that, and we still don't really KNOW one more thing for sure than we did before all that started! Sheeesh! I bet we all make it to the bank the same day, at the same rate as all these folks doing the chatting!!!

[LOCOMOJO]

.........It has merit in as much as it delivered an understanding of China's play in this theater pertaining to our debt to them and their elbowing into Iraq for position, the VND description "little toe" was great, good way to think about it, calling the G20 summit a "re-booting of global economies was a good metaphor as well, I can't knock these guys like some do on this site because they do have some value to their studies too.......................Great post Thank You

.

[justin88]

.........It has merit in as much as it delivered an understanding of China's play in this theater pertaining to our debt to them and their elbowing into Iraq for position, the VND description "little toe" was great, good way to think about it, calling the G20 summit a "re-booting of global economies was a good metaphor as well, I can't knock these guys like some do on this site because they do have some value to their studies too.......................Great post Thank You

Willie is one of my very good friends, he knows his stuff he used to be here but he has his on opinion and got the boot for it... yeah he want give a date or rate either and I know that's all people want and don't realize how this will effect the world and mostly the USA for years to come. The whole china talk and USA chess game is really a big deal and people ignore it, yet if china wins we are all in trouble.

[zantac]

Chats like this just gives my a bad headache!!!!!!!!!!!!

Summary to the above chat

"IF THE DOG HAD NOT STOPPED FOR A S**T HE WOULD HAVE CAUGHT THE RABBIT"

[automag]

Wow I bet that chat was for hours. Thanks for the post I know that was a lot of work.

If I tried to comment on all of this my rebuttal would be longer than this chat and even I can't stand my long post believe it or not. But I will add some food for thought to their conversation on the Yuan. I am no expert on the Yuan or the Dinar so indulge with me a moment.

If you are gonna consider the issues between China and the US over the currencies you must include in the discussion the issue of multi national corporations. The same people who pull the money strings here pull those same strings in China. It is simply not an issue of one government vs the other. The corporations and capitalist who drive world economies, (and that includes banking), are very much part of the mix and cannot be ignored when trying to consider geo-economics. These well intentioned folks never make mention of that and they must take all that into consideration. The US is a capitalist country. The US put the capital C in the word Capitalist and China is a newcomer to the game.

The Chinese are not going to revalue if we are to believe what they have publicly stated many times in the press. They do control the value of the Yuan through a managed float but they have said again and again the will let the value rise through that managed float and let the value of the Yuan rise gradually and that will be how they increase the value. They are concerned with Viet Nam because the Vietnamese have lots of cheap cheap labor. Sure they have a little oil and some minerals about but the one thing they have is cheap labor. That is the relationship that the Chinese have with Viet Nam. If you go along with the thought that Kuwait wants a high RV from Iraq to keep their currencies on par with the other then you could assume that a like idea would be what the Chinese have in mind. But Viet Nam is not like Iraq in that they do not have the natural resources to play the game like Iraq does. No way and no how is Viet Nam going to be in the position of China's Iraq. But even so the Chinese know that Viet Nam can make large inroads on the world market as a juicy destination for Multi Nationals looking for better profits and that would give rise to a more powerful Viet Nam on their southern border. Historically Viet Nam defeated Chinese aggression in a series of wars long before Paris had sewers. The Chinese haven't forgotten their history either. But thats just historical perspective. None the less it is something to be considered as we have had an unpleasant situation with them as well.

China has resisted the rise in the value of the Yuan for many reasons and most believe it is designed to maintain or gain leverage over the US as an attempt to achieve superpower status. The is much truth in that but it is not the whole truth. If the US decides to stop buying China's goodies what happens to the Chinese market. It will collapse as sure as the proverbial house of cards. If Europe does the same then again the Chinese position weakens. This one of many reasons it is called a global economy and it has all become a symbiotic relationship in that the economies depend on each other and as such they must defend and rely on the other for their bread and butter. If the value of the yuan rises believe it or not the group that will gain the most are the corporations that control the economies. Every penny that currency gains puts pressure on the Chinese companies to maintain their already not so great margins. Less money less growth and so on. Plus if the value goes up it does provide a benefit to the US position and when you are trying to become a superpower who would want to give their rival an Ace. There are many many many reasons for the Chinese to want to keep their currency value low.

Now they can and will try and gain advantage but no matter what the world economies are intertwined and if one has more power than it's partners then the economies become unbalanced. What happens when you lose your balance? You fall down and go BOOM!! I personally would love to see the US wax these guys all over the floor but I have also come to realize that we need or rather should I say our economy needs the Chinese because our corporations have made sure we do by sending our manufacturing capabilities and the jobs that went with that capability over to China in the name of cheap labor. Now what am I supposed to do? Read or google about the Dell theory. It's a delicious example of the intertwining of world economies and national interests. But that is a different subject for another day.

I appreciate any sites efforts to attempt to contemplate solutions to the global economic challenges this world faces. It's good to see average folks take interest and discuss and debate the issues because an educated people are what makes Democracy work. But I just wish people in general could get around their personal feelings about politics and look at the issues without prejudice. I don't mean forget your politics but isolate feelings from facts. When I read about a historical moment I never have the vale of the politics of the times except in a cold calculated definition of what was going on then and not now. My point is that all of us let politics cloud our vision of issues and in the end it's like being at a football game instead of fixing the problem. I wish problems could be approached like math. Nothing emotional about math. I have my personal views of politics and you do as well. Fine. But consider this. If you were a Democrat and I was a Republican and we saw Martians landing on the Mall in DC could we put our differences down for moment? At least till the issue was dealt with? I'd use the term aliens but they are everywhere and I didn't want confuse the Martians with the aliens we have all over the place!!

What I am saying here is that if we are to come to an educated guess or a solution of any problem be it China or Iraq we really should check our politics at the door. It serves no purpose to grind each other over it and letting those same politics cloud our vision and get in the way of a solution will only widen the divide between folks. Besides. When was the last time you saw a political party or a politician sincerely represent you correctly. Why cheer lead for people who only need your vote and want your money for their re-election. This chat is filled with references to politics and they use those references to fill in holes instead of finding facts. I've done it. I have used my opinion as fact when I didn't know what the facts really were and I have come off looking like a fool for doing it. I have tried to stop that and find out what the real facts are but if I can't I don't resort to filling in the holes with half truths and opinions unless I say that I'm guessing or it's my opinion.

All I am asking is for you to consider my post as an attempt for each of us to reflect on what we read. Is it a truth or is it an opinion. These folks have stated their opinions and they have done so without one warning that what they are saying is other than what they believe. But as I said they never once included the idea that multi national corporations are involved and as such they have not considered all the facts that do exist,(including the politics), with that situation. Plus they let their feelings about politics color their opinions rather than stick to facts. So how can there be any definition to those issues if they only examine 3 out of 20 issues? I leave it up to you for further consideration..........................In my opinion only, of course. .......Sorry!! It does look longer than their chat.

[ds2]

wow and i thought frank was a long winded poster!

[automag]

wow and i thought frank was a long winded poster!

Haha I cannot deny that my post are long but there is so much to say. Still I won't disagree with you about the length of my post. I actually was trying to give the chat serious consideration and rebuttal as they worked hard to produce their thoughts about how they feel about the situation.

Would you prefer a simple, "Those guys are full of it?' Maybe a simple "I don't agree." Plus without a explanation and a thorough rebuttal what good does that do? If I could say it like Mongo does even I would be more entertained. Honestly. He is at least entertaining and he has a knack for stating it in such a manner. I really wish I could. But since I can't I do what I do.

OK now having read my post what do you think? Have you anything to add to the conversation? I hope you do really. I'm not Mr. Know it all and your opinion, your serious opinion might teach me something I don't know. Thats my motivation and the reason I do what I do.

Jump on in. All opinions are welcome and requested. It's all just education. Can't fault a guy for that.

[almondeyes]

This was a very good post!!!! It gives one that has not really been in politics, or even much into the subject MUCH to think about., It also causes my brain to work a little over time For most of my years I have raised kids, cleaned , cooked and worked as a nurse who didn't have time to debate the world. I am really enjoying reading the chats and learning a lot. Thanks to all you smart people. IMO it will happen when God has everyone on the same page. HOPEFULLY PEACE.

[Traconesu02]

Thanks for the post Trimark.

[Doc31]

I'm sorry but I'm unable to edit it any longer and it doesn't give me the option to delete it. I apologize for posting such a long chat. I just thought it was interesting. Again, my apologies.

Don't apologize ... I don't set my watch by what these folks say ... but I skimmed and found what I wanted to know

Thanks for the post

Peace

Edited June 19, 2010 by Doc31

[ms.ishee]

Good job guys.Kudos to you and your crew. Thanks

[kullen1]

I too enjoyed the chat post, at least it gives us some factors to consider!!

[kamm]

Please don't appologize! I REALLY enjoyed this chat and am really glad you posted it all. I know people love the short version but I am still trying to learn and every piece is an interesting piece of the puzzle for me!!

Thank you for posting!

Same here I enjoyed the chat readings. Steve

[luckylucy]

TriMark ... thanks for bringing the topic here via the chat ... interesting information. Chat's are the most difficult to paste and you did great!

Automag .. thanks for the rebuttal sharing your perspective. I always look forward to reading your comments and I appreciate the time you take to put your thoughts in writing. If I understand you, I agree about our politics clouding our judgment at times especially when we accept news, rumors, etc., that seem to support a particular political view without really checking out the facts. I like hearing opposing views, but I want facts and not biased reports. Same as with dinar RV information ... I want the best information I can get even if it is not what I'm hoping for .

Regarding the economics of China-US-Iraq-Vietnam, Automag, I'm one of those guilty of not having looked that closely at their independent and interdependent.relationships.. so I'm glad to read your comments and those in the chat post.

thanks again!

luckylucy

[automag]

luckylucy I thank you very much for your comments. I do try and be A political as I know that opinions and passion regarding the subject can become heated and I have been guilty of such as surely as the sun will rise tomorrow. But I have come to the conclusion that it becomes counter productive because of those passions. Politics is a difficult subject to understand for it's a complicated subject and the intricacies of politics and the way it's portrayed has and is becoming more and more difficult to comprehend. We sometimes do not hear the truth and as human beings we can be provoked by a mere word or less than genuine information. It is human nature. But it does not help in that we cannot see the truths of a matter when we are left with only opinion or half truths as compared to cold hard facts. I do know that people including myself hear something and they can automatically accept whatever they heard as truth because it is what they want to hear and by doing so the will express the matter without so much as trying to confirm what it was somebody told them.

I have been guilty of doing that. I have learned my lesson. I try and avoid my opinion until I can verify it with facts.

This morning an article was posted on DV in the news section by hablrob explaining that the Chinese central bank has declared a managed float for the Yuan. I knew this but the subject of an RV by the Chinese has been floated on the net in Dinar Land as an event that will signal a reval of the VND. That was flat wrong and the Chinese bank just made it official. People have gobbled up the VND and have been told by some that it will RV when the Chinese force the issue by an RV of the Yuan. It would seem that is not the case.

This is exactly the reason why I posted such a long winded post. To make a case for what I already knew was the truth.

So again luckylucy thank for your kinds words. I hope that I was of some service to you and any who would be interested.

Edited June 19, 2010 by automag

[Trimark]

Thanks to everyone for their kind posts. I really appreciate them.