Rayzur

Speaking in general ..... regarding this issue as a whole.... I personally don't care what a bunch of communist or socialist people think. I don't care what a group of clowns, elected politicians, news casters, unicorns, or the grocery store clerk says. I don't care how many pictures of receding ice or receding hairlines, or huge melting ice bergs films there are... And I least of all care about journalistic opinion about the social issues someone decided are linked to the whole issue. If you have the degree of academic scientific expertise, practice and knowledge base qualifying you to be regarded as an expert.... thank G-d, that is beyond fabulous.... please, bring it on. Seriously, I WANT to see equally credible results showing a lack of probability …. showing a lack of relationship. That would be the happy moment of the year. At the same time, it would be insanely naïve at best to believe anyone should dismiss hard science evidence based findings, simplistically based upon personal journalistic opinion absent any credibility to render such opinion, or actually showing credible findings of contrast.... If its a lie..... wonderful, great... fabulous... If you have the truth... stop with the naming it and show it. Its really that simple, unless of course there is some pathological whacko game of I know something you don't know and I'm not going to show you.... which is also fine... but if you're not going to show me then stop talking about it, and quit naming it truth... Meanwhile, the world is marching on. I don't know what the people in NYC were protesting, If it was capitalism, that's stupid, Capitalism didn't cause it anymore than communism would save it... If it was to bring this to the attention of the world.... The world knows and as is often forgotten, includes more that the US and what the US is aware of as its defining point. However, even the US money, science and economic policy makers and investors are largely on board. On that level any debate in here is for sport as the actual issue has been resolved and the real world is moving forward. If you want to debate, here is the information confronting you, and in which lies the evidence challenging you to credible in-kind debate. In actuality, the argument is not at all with what I think. Its with the volumes of evidence in front of you that challenges the assertion that this is a lie, a joke, or an American political problem. Insulting the truths evident in these volumes of very real scientific findings by cherry picking straw dogs to take down …...serves no one and no thing.. least of all the people of this planet. This link is to the UN University.... Its a starting place... If you can't find the actual link to the actual reports leading to the latest UN global leaders meeting, let me know and I'll search it out... Its not bookmarked on this computer and I'm over it right now... (BUT I will take the time to find it if you genuinely want it and can't find it) Link to UNU climate change papers/research in general: http://collections.unu.edu/list/?cat=quick_filter&sort_by=searchKey0&search_keys[0]=climate+change Link to UNU Climate Change program, its mission, overview, target audience, mission statement type stuff: http://unu.edu/research/climate-change.html#outline Link to UNU home Page: http://unu.edu/ Peace out

^5 Exactly SoCal and west of the 405 to be specific.... Used to drive by it all the time in some variation of going to LAX.... So now what's bugging me... is I don't remember it as always having said "Randy's"... soooo I was going to call my buddy, but then thought calling peeps vacationing in France to ask them, would probably result in too many variations of wtf are you smoking that you are even asking that.... and calling me in France to do so..... So I have to ask... has it always said Randy's??? ...... and yeah, obviously the women on this thread focus on different attributes presented in the picture...

I've only glanced at some of the content... Interesting confused and equally insane, it appears that communists and socialists somehow believe that their differing economic approach will somehow eliminate the very real issue of growing economies while reducing carbon emissions... what?? by virtue of being a communist or socialist??? Fossil fuel emission is reduced....because they have redistributed the wealth among more people... Or is there some form of magical thinking that demand will decrease because communism or socialism is not a petrol-based economy like that of the rest of the entire planet??? As in the reply above, I'm having an equally hard time in this case understanding how changing who controls the wealth or wealth distribution will somehow change the fundamental underpinnings of that which drives the wealth of all industrial economies... (meaning all economies except maybe a jungle economy here and there).... Get over it people, even Russia abandoned those models in favor of a more capitalist approach. Focus people... this is not the place to parade your favorite pony...

So we have an article author who has no theoretical understanding of the principles behind the words he's using, in turn referencing a collection of fringe political groups of people who likewise would not be able to collectively identify the theoretical principles defining the economic underpinnings of either socialism or communism... and that is evidence that climate change has no interaction whatsoever with human participation? I just want to be clear about the tenants of his hypothesis, cause I sure as heck don't see the nexus.... . and digressing for a moment to address that specific error: Apart from noting that both words have morphed into meaninglessness, traditionally, Socialism and Communism are often used interchangeably but they are actually two different economic principles. Socialism advocates ownership by the workers who use the capital and Communism advocates ownership of capital by the entire community. Socialism says that the distribution should take place according to the amount of an individual's production efforts, whilst communism asserts that that goods and services should be distributed among the populace according to individuals' needs. Socialism generally aims to have as many people as possible influence how the economy works, communism seeks to concentrate that number into a smaller amount. And overall while socialism generally refers to an economic system, communism refers to both an economic and political system. Whatever the confusion of the author and the protesting people as to the economic principles that guide them, I am fairly confident that the World Bank is crystal clear about the economic principles driving their business. So if the author is by logical extension stating that the World Bank is a Socialist driven organization ruled by Communist governance... well that is not something I've ever heard even suggested, much less pondered. That would also mean that all the scientists, and all world leaders grappling with this question (which is a different question actually) as it is directly impacting the economy of today, are likewise economically Socialists or [sic] Communist. Hadn't pondered that possibility either...... If the question is framed as: Is climate change the result of natural cycles OR human impact? it will absolutely keep people in some fantasy debate believing only ONE of the two things can be true....... When The climate is changing, Climate change has been happening in cycles on earth for as far back as we can measure Human impact effecting climate is a measurable event of impact. Leading to the solution driven questions: Very roughly stated, Is human impact contributing to or exacerbating climate cycles Is human impact antagonizing the current climate cycle (we are 4 maybe 4.5 C degrees away from a critical mass extinction path that we do not have the current ability to stop once it tips over that threshold) What if anything can we do to prevent or limit the probability of a critical mass threshold from happening Is modifying human impact one of the variables that contribute toward limiting if not preventing this probability, What is the need to close one's mind to asking and answering those questions? What is driving the fear ... or maybe anger with people that want these questions asked.... What is the source of anger over some of the answers emerging? The only thing I can figure out is that somehow this issue has become extremely politicized ?? That's kind of how its looking to me.... Especially when people write long theoretically confused articles about fringe political groups having a direct causal relationship driving peer reviewed hard scientific methodologically sound research questions....And frankly, the nexus between communism and the World Bank struggling with the economic impact of serious climate problems so as to keep the global economy up and running, now and in the future is beyond logical comprehension.... Look,.... everyone has a choice, and I'm grateful there is enough maturity on DV to respect that we all have choice and those choices may be different... If this guy wants to use politics as the framework for solving a planetary dilemma with documented impact already evident..... Fine... Not my question, not my approach, and I don't think it will lead to much that is meaningful... but okay.... . In the meantime, why in here is there such a huge force opposing that effort of questioning... I don't get it...Sharing what comes up as it does seems to bring a huge wave of opposition.....and I don't get why... What is being threatened in here? If I'm wrong, great, I'm some dill weed that went down a rabbit hole..... And right now, my rabbit hole is pretty full of hard science findings, and nee ner nee ner doesn't exactly reach the threshold of refuting quantifiable evidence... And if that evidence is wrong... then for heaven's sakes give me the metrics that refute it, give me the science... give me the numbers and stats..,, and stop withholding.... And please be clear, on a personal level, I love driving my Lincoln Navigator with its air conditioned seats as a commuter car..... I love the solitude and comfort of running little errands in a 4 door Jag.... The lit-up quarter acre of running waterfalls in my backyard at the one house is peaceful.... Running 5 televisions all day long on both floors of the other house has always worked for me. And yeah, I'm likely among those defining conspicuous consumption, and my friends fill in any remaining gaps... There's way too much I really don't want to give up and I would love sound scientific facts proving I responsibly don't have to. Unfortunately, all the slogan driven platitudes, and one-liners tossed about don't do squat in actually addressing my commitment of responsibility to the well-being of my grandchildren's grandchildren. If someone can dig up peer reviewed science to refute the World Bank findings then for pete's sake post it and stop bringing paper clips to a gun fight. Please.. PS Apologies, as I often do, I started an answer hours ago, midst the up and down of doing 10 other things and hanging with a couple friends at various times .... before coming back a half day later and finishing it to post... As a result, I see there are a few answers to some of the questions I had, e.g., is this a politicized issue.... I see for many it is... Most unfortunate... though does explain some of the anger and fear..... Thanks... I really was wondering what the heck was going on... .

She forgot a couple of items.... 1) Vasectomy for dead beat dad after 3rd month of no support 2) You cannot vote on any city county or state projects increasing property tax unless you own property....

This is floating through the Anonymous world this month and thought I'd share.... I think my favs are the guy going for his dog through ice and the baby brought back to life... What's your vote.... Whatever it is... I thank G-d there IS so much good in the world....

Killing innocent people with gas (which the UN found was NOT deployed by Assad), didn't work... not enough to galvanize the American will to support further war.... They had to pull out the big guns and instill insanely irrational fear.... fear has always been a monumental force driving people to surrender pieces of their humanity..... even nothing more than fear of the "possibility" that something could happen will serve to drive people... .. Works ever single time, if the correct trigger can be identified. Every single time... Meanwhile back at the ranch, there seems to be very little unified outcry at the very real things currently destroying the American way of life.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQzz-TpRfC4

Wow, "what a trip" is right...... Ya know, when you look at the past decade +, and the wars of engagement, and the call to arms preceding them..... do you ever get this creepy feeling we're all stuck in this freaky tape loop with no need to really change much in the play-book... The similarities are startling... but to then actually see it juxtaposed this way is amazing.... Thanks Adam !!!..

^5+1 TBomb

Ahhhh yup !

Who is Tony Stewart?

Thai, in case you missed my thread, ....you are one of the ones I wanted to make sure saw it.... Happy Rosh Hashanah Leshanah tovah tikateiv veteichateim Now back to your regularly scheduled thread posts... which I'm assuming is a humor/joke piece because of its factual and logical transgressions....... ....

To all my tribe peeps where ever you may be on this Blessed day: Happy Rosh Hashanah Leshanah tovah tikateiv veteichateim

Amen to that!!! I am so grateful that my Christianity was not typified by the brutal murders of hundreds of thousands during the Christian reformation / Crusades,... or characterized by Tim McVeigh when he blew up Oklahoma.. I can only guess how much destruction that would have delivered if the internet were around when he planted those bombs in the name of Christ and killed all those kids... At the same time, I can't even imagine what it would like if the non-Christian world thought David Koresh and his constant Bible quoting and "Christian" justification reflected the teachings of the Bible..... Again, I'm grateful the internet was not real widely available... The Christian sect using live snakes is all over the internet, especially after head preacher guy died, The whacko group that shows up at Veteran's funerals with mourners having to be protected by the Hell's Angels... ugh... There are even formally organized Nazi groups proclaiming Christianity at the center of their fundamental beliefs... all over the internet...ewwwwww And then there's the whole Mormon sect of child bride pedophilia and multiple wives thing..... . Of course we / Christians know that none of that represents the written Word of the Bible as practiced by non-radical extreme Christian groups... I can't even imagine how sick and defeated I would feel if the whole non-Christian world.... who really didn't know Christianity beyond what they were told... if they thought those extreme practices represented my religion..... It would be really sad..... In any event, I thought his comment about separation of Church and State was an interesting solution regarding the ME. The essence of that is a right protected by our Constitution.... something ME people don't have protecting them... It occurred to me that once again, the wisdom of our forefathers continues to shine brightly on the brilliance of what they put in place as the foundation of our country..... The kid had an interesting perspective and view and it would be interesting to know more about his background in terms of religious development and practice.... I noticed at one point he mentioned Sunni and Islam, and I was wondering if that was at the specific exclusion of Shia,.... was it specific to Sunni... why separate out this sect from the others?.... And the one question still unresolved for me in this and many other views being shared these days... the one thing I can't quite reconcile... or at least remains a question.... (not just this thread, ... in general)... . The US is currently the only... the only non-Arab country in a partnership of military engagement and weapons deployment in Syria... There are no western or European countries participating in the military engagement of Syria..... All of our allies are Arab, and therein, all of our allies fighting alongside us are Muslim.... Clearly stated, the entire military population serving as Allies with the US... are Muslim.... So what exactly are our brains supposed to do with that relative to what this kid is saying... He's very clear that the all Muslims are Islam... and want to kill the infidel and etc etc... Yet the entire allied force joining the US... is Muslim... The question is by no means rhetorical... not in any sense.... Odds are almost exclusively... if I am in battle and conducting air strikes, the person covering my 6 will be a Muslim.... What in the sam hill is my brain supposed to do with that.... What do I do about the Muslim ally who is on my side fighting this vein of the war, and who is protecting me from harm?!?! In fact its happening in Iraq as well though western participation reduces very very very slightly the probability that I would be fighting alongside this generalized group of Islam people who categorically hate me... How does that work? Maybe I will email and ask him... . Throwing everybody into one pot and painting them with this broad brush stroke of all being he same... does not in any way reconcile that we are taking our entire ally force from that exact same pot... And fighting side by side with them against a common enemy..... I am putting my life on the line and into the same hands, shoulder to shoulder.... and.. well..... how in the sam hill is that supposed to work?!?!? . ps: to my tribe peeps Happy Rosh Hashanah

Thanks for the down low Nadita... There is so much going on, its like trying to swat mosquitoes in a swarm.... The current engagememt is so exquisitely convoluted it barely made sense, though I think when you introduce the extremist Khorasan group and their threat to the US, it puts things in perspective... I'm pretty sure more will be coming out in the next day or so... But the short of it is.... We were following them, they were targeting the US and Europe, they went dark and there was enough of a viable concern that we had to go after where we thought they might be.... We did get a Post Office in Syria today... it was one of those wry dark humor moments... As it turns out, its likely there were waskly wabbits in there as well... ....

Ya know LGD, I get where you're coming from... I really do... I thought it was all a bunch of baloney, especially during the snows of last winter.... I remember my dad who was freezing his tail off saying global warming my azzzzz and we would laugh about it.... I was pretty sure it was just one more stupid political debate dividing us on one more thing...... But it wouldn't go away, and when the World Bank... the money people started making noise and then I started reading some of the stuff, it hit me: This is not at the level of some stupid debate about who should be president, or when it will RV, or will the dollar collapse.... The stakes on this one are a much higher... In this case, I am literally betting the lives of my son's grandchildren, that I am right and they are wrong... If even a fraction of what is being said is true, and I believe I am responsible for the children of my children's children.... then I don't want to be one of the people who dismiss this lightly, when I could have done something different... LGD, I don't know what the answers are and I'm I frickin genius, (laughing) and I'm certainly not out in the streets shouting as if I do... This is all new to me... And I find it very sobering that the people who make insane profit off the backs of people full steam ahead and day'um their misery,... that the World Bank...... thinks its real.... If we ignore it or chide it, will it go away? I don't know. But betting on my kids lives that it will??? I'm just not one of those people. You're a warrior like me... even more so, you were on the ground... you know what I'm saying... Is it really within you to turn your back on a plausible threat in the face of mounting evidence its real? I have to at least be willing to check it out with an open mind.... we're betting stakes way too high not to. Don't ya think? I don't know, I have more questions than answers right now.....

Ahhhhh thats so cute... Years later Frankie finally gets to where Adam has been all along, steadfast and then pretends like he invented this lynch pin all on his own, hoping no one will notice how late he came to the party.... Adam called this one from jump street years ago....

Of course volcano's contribute and indeed science has shown that the earth has cycles... and those same samples proving earth cycles, likewise show that the last time the earth was in this cycle and on this path, it resulted in the mass extinction of 95% of all species on the planet...... We've got to stop framing the question as an either/or scenario: Either this is a natural cycle, or we are causing a change in climate resulting in a warming of the planet....... In actuality both things can be true... the earth is cycling, and what are if anything are we doing to speed up the warming cycle, or make it worse, or exacerbate its impact etc etc.... People who say follow the money.... don't get to have it both ways... When the President of THE International World Money people say we hoped to stay at the 2 degree Celsius mark, we blew past it, and if we hit the 6 degree mark, we will engage a mass extinction path we don't have the technology or ability to stop..... then you now have my attention... Its no longer a political party debate, its not a corporate agenda debate... Frankly its no longer some blog debate wherein people get to hypothecate based upon the limitations of their expertise or understanding..... When the International World Money people announces that 97% of the climate experts reviewing all agree we are headed down this path, and are contributing to the planetary warming of this path... I reach a point where I know that I don't know enough to refute that ....especially based upon some magazine article or news report rendered by some journalist who thinks they have more expertise than these 97%.... At this point, I'm going to need to hear 97% of an equally credentialed group saying something different. In the meantime, the World Money is positioning for the economic destruction already occurring, while scrambling to prevent its further occurrence.... they are already dealing with the financial consequences of a planet warming too fast, leaving those debating the reality of that, in its wake.... We live in a complicated world that unfortunately demands we focus on more than one thing at a time.... ISIL is a short term strategy of economic survival... which should not over shadow long term strategies for planetary survival, especially at such a critical juncture of that path.... its kind of like your house is going into foreclosure while the town around you is burning down... Ya kind of have to deal with both of them if you choose to remain engaged....

Good point Nelg... there are so many behind the scenes behinds its hard to tell what else is driving .. or who is driving... or what they are driving..... Its becoming more of a challenge figuring out who is a player and who is being played.. and that's looking at it from the inside... ugh. And you're right about reading the agendas.... Here is the link from the World Bank... Actually there are a bunch of links, but this one talks about the World Bank piece of the meeting..: http://www.worldbank.org/en/events/2014/09/08/un-climate-summit And the UN Climate Summit in General: http://www.un.org/climatechange/summit/ UN Security Council... http://www.un.org/en/sc/programme/ meeting on the 24 where Obama is speaking... He is the Council President this month (it shifts monthly for UNSC meetings)... Briefing (P.M)- Threats to international peace and security caused by terrorist acts As I was wading through the documents for this session, I saw a few things that would have the global reset people salivating.... Chatting about the IMF governance, quota formulas of 2013 and those of 2014... along with the role of Special drawing rights as an international reserve asset, Basel III and all the other things they like to carry on about.... Not that that's a bad thing... I don't grasp the mechanism well enough to understand how those dots are connected... So hopefully they'll wade through all this volume to see if its relevant... .. However, that notwithstanding.... the Official Session of the General Assembly started a week ago, so I'm sure all kinds of heads of state are going to be in and out of NYC over the next however long... The financial aspect alone had 125 items to wade through and each one looked like it would take a year to understand.... . Forgot the Ebola update from the UN meeting today, 22 Sep :http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=48774&Cr=ebola&Cr1=

Ahhhh it wasn't liberals that got em all stirred up...... It was those darn clowns over at the World Bank who officially announced on behalf of the World Bank..... to the leaders of a bunch of countries... that we are likely to move past the 2 C degree mark the world was "trying" to hold to ....and.... too fastly approaching the 6 degree Celsius mark that will tip the planet into a path of mass extinction that cannot be stopped. Course that would probably take a few centuries, though the World Bank dill weeds said some of those changes will effect the planet within generations........ Being all caught up in money like they clearly are, the World Bank announced that the findings of 97% of climate scientists reviewing agree in reporting these consequences.... Course it is possible that the 97% climate scientists from around the world are probably liberal even in countries that don't have liberal politics, and the 3% that do not agree are the ones who really do know what is going on....I'm thinking it all about the money and the World Bank got all caught up in it, cause the countries most impacted by this won't be able to pay back their loans, which will mess with World Bank profits....... In any event, the World Bank got all the world leaders wrapped up in this and there will be a meeting at the UN tomorrow between them to try to figure out how to bring down carbon emissions...Which is probably why the protesters were in NYC, the home of the UN... Incredible as it seems, the president of the World Bank was actually bold enough to state that it is possible to Save the Planet and Grow the Economy, in one of his official reports recently, ....as if the planet needed saving.... right... Speaking of profit... can you believe that institutional investors realized a 38% pop on IPO Ali the first day.... not you and me the little investor... but wow... that is going to shift a few things (like buying yahoo wow...)... And yes as Markinsa noted, , the "US and its Arab allies" are striking Syria with Navy Tomahawks... without Syria's permission.... Which Syria warned it would see as an act of war..... The US is the only non-Arab country engaged in these strikes at this time...(its US, Saudi, UAE, Jordan and one other Arab country... but not Iraq... ) . Raise your hand if you knew that the US would eventually find a way to do this after it was voted down 13 months ago... Interesting tactic.... start the bombing THEN go to the UN Security Council a few days later and see if you can get non Arab countries to join in.... I think it was France that already stated ISIS yes.... Syria no.... Interesting times ahead watching this play out... .

Yeah.... it was part of a sophisticated ad campaign hoping people would be stupid enough to believe it and stay the hellll out of their lives, home and front yard.... shopping around for what they could take...... It was kind of their version of 2nd Amendment rights in "baring arms".....

Hey PP... as I do you. That's what makes this site such a great place. We can come at problem solving from different perspectives as we together try to figure out what we'e going to do in turing the insanity of the world around... The answer is always driven by the question.... always..... And sometimes I think its not always obvious that the question is a matter of perspective as well.... Therein of course, lots of room for differing views Thanks PP .. .

Back at ya EagleEye and good point for referencing the sound track.... (one of my favs from that album). In case anyone wants to buy it from iTunes or whatever, there are quite a few Sacred Spirit albums out there...This first song is from the album Chants and Dances of the Native American and the song is Yeha-Noha... (wishes of happiness and prosperity) Thanks EagleEye!!...AH-UH NAYAH OH-WA SHON-DAY OH-WA ,SHON-DAY CAN-NON NON NOHA :D

In departure from the PNG tribes (it seems from what you say).... the SA tribes are not going to have it. Biologically speaking in terms of the planet... that's good for all of us who need to live on this planet.... That's not some boo hoo weepy save the rainforest issue... It's scientifically understanding how its biodiversity and plant life contributes to the air we need to breathe.... Thank G-d someone has our backs, even if we aren't paying attention to what's going on... One of the tribal leaders threw down the gauntlet about 6 months ago, putting the world on notice that their people will die before surrendering to the de-forestation created by the corporate oil interests encroaching on their home.... For many years the tribe chose isolation, and of recent have come to understand theirs is a fight for the entire world and they only way to stop it is for it to come out into the open from the hidden struggle that the oil bizilionaires would rather the world not see... So they have reluctantly embraced technology (though very limited) knowing its really the only way the world will be told and hopefully understand what's happening to the planet we all live on..... and in giving the world (and these people) a say over their future existence..... For what it's worth this was filmed very very deep in the jungle, ...I happen to know the guy speaking.... and there is no turning back on this one....... r

Hey Fly how ya doing and how goes the world in your neck of the jungle? Yes this is PNG, and it was the French anthro documentary guy Jean (can't remember last name right now.. ).. There has since been documentation of contact with the PNG cannibals a few times, at least two teams, I'd have to check and see from where... I wanna say Netherlands or Germany... and another maybe an Aussie guy.... I was with the tribe that shrinks heads (and the only one tribe in the world that does so by the way,,, its not widespread as the movies portray... ).. However I was never in any danger as I was not an opposing warrior whose spirit they had to contain such that my spirit would not return and battle them from that realm....Its okay to be a warrior... just not one opposing them in battle.... To this day, that tribe still uses spears and blow guns with the introduction of shotguns only very recently... which unfortunately put tribes on the brink of war this past summer... that was a cluster, but it got resolved and everyone has backed down and are at peace with the other.... Ever use a blow gun? I have to use the teenager size, the adult size has always been way too heavy for me to use with any accuracy.... Those things are heavy... course 8 feet of hard wood held horizontally in front of your mouth would tend to be heavy for anyone...but its definitely outside of my ability... Is there any chance you can go back to PNG now? Would be interesting. Do you know if the gov't is protecting, or is it open contact? Lots of interesting dynamics and strange bedfellows as the world's need for resources evolves...In the US the corporations own the government in terms of legislation and subsequent activity, yet outside its borders in other countries the US gov't opposes corporations in some of its funded oppositions..... though in actuality as I write this and think about it... maybe its not opposition as much as its neutralization.... humm that's something to ponder... Hey Nadita! Thanks!!!, good to see you. Still catching up in here in-between unpacking from this summer and repacking for next month. I'm hoping to get the chance to actually sit down and catch up with your spins in the next few days... always do appreciate the huge volume of information you distill down for us all so we can stay current. Thank you for being here and all that you bring to the party