The Isaiah 9:10 Judgment

[dog53]

Beautiful pit in your avatar. But...

Do you have anything relative to bring to the table or are you gonna just keep chastising for the hell of it?

Maybe some psych arguments? Some biblical proof? Anything?

Or just name calling?

Naaa not really. But everyone else is doing a fine job +1 to everybody. I will just stick to name calling

Its what I do best.

A mans got to know his limitations hahahahahahahahaha

Edited April 3, 2012 by dog53

[thatoneguy]

I hear you, but if you believe god is omniscient than that means you believe he is all knowing, if god is all knowing that means he would know what all of his creations would do prior to him creating and instilling free will in them. So by by that rational, god does in fact create non believers. If he expects his creations to believe, then why wouldn't he simply create believers if he has prior knowledge of which of his creations will believe and which ones won't. or why wouldn't he just make himself known to the world in such a matter that erases any doubt whatsoever? Surely a god that can create everything could provide some evidence, but yet he doesn't and will still burn us for coming to logical conclusions based on a brain/mind that he supposedly bestowed on to us? It makes no logical sense, so of course thats when we will hear the inevitable "well god works in mysterious ways bit"

if you decide to look at it objectively it's rather easy to see it doesn't add up. Take care

C'mon Neo, Its a test. He's testing YOU! LOL.

[NEODinar]

I was going to leave this alone because we are beginning to talk in circles. The bottom line is that belief in God, supreme intelligence, source or whatever term you want to use is based on faith.

NEO...there are lots of things you have faith in...without any solid evidence to base that faith upon. You have faith that when you go to sleep at night, you will wake up the next day. You have faith that when you get out of bed, gravity is still there. You have faith that when you take your first breath of the day, the atmosphere didn't disappear overnight. Evolution takes faith, too...if it worked like we have been led to believe, then where are the fossil records of the trasitional forms?

As for God creating evil...and allowing His children to suffer...it's not up to God to "fix" this world. It's up to us. We messed things up in the first place, and it's our responsibility to set things right.

A quick comment on the Bible...it is an owner's manual for being human. It's a history lesson, a morality tale and a self help book all rolled into one. Jesus came to show us the way...He was the perfect example of how to live our lives. His relationship with God is the one we should all strive to have.

But to blame God for what man has done is just wrong.

I hear you Mack, and that is true, to an extent. Yes I believe that I will wake up when i go to sleep, yes I believe that gravity will remain unchanged, yes I believe the atmosphere was not formed overnight. It's true that I hold these beliefs but you have to examine why I hold these beliefs, you have to ask the question is it reasonable to hold these beliefs. I would say yes it is, and my reasoning is experience. Much like we were discussing earlier my friend. If my life experience from the day I was born until the present consists of waking up everyday, adhering to the laws of gravity and breathing the air this planet and atmosphere allow me to then that experience is a pretty good basis for the belief that the pattern will continue wouldn't you agree?

i have to disagree, evolution does not require faith. It is right in front of our face, evolution is simply change and or change over time. we can observe evolution in such organisms as viruses that mutate and evolve, and adapt at rates quick enough for us to observe them. There are plenty transitional forms and fossils, simply google it to find out. They have hominid skulls that are not what we would classify as modern humans but not what we would classify as completely ape like as well. Evolution is a fact my friend and the evidence is abundant if you choose to look. Plus, even if we did not have all the evidence that we do, evolution simply makes more sense compared than the bible's and other holy book's explanations, I mean Adam and Eve, the talking snake, the rib, the dust, The Ark etc. is that really more reasonable to you than evolution that can be observed?

I hear you, but you and others seem to be missing my underlining point. I understand that you believe it is up to us and that we have free will to choose, and that we are responsible to change things. My point though is that it's not logical that an omniscient god would create beings knowing they would mess everything up and then punish them for doing what he knew they would do. Thats all I'm trying to get at, so again I understand your belief that it's on us, but I'm addressing the lack of rational regarding that entire premise.

Ok, Thats your pov and thats cool, I have to disagree however, Although the bible does contain some good messages that should be applied universally, it also contains many immoral messages, such as the promotion of slavery, murder, rape, and intolerance. For instance Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT, Leviticus 20:13 NAB,Leviticus 20:10 NL, Leviticus 21:9 NAB, 2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB, Zechariah 13:3 NAB, all contain passages condoning murder. Even in the new testament slavery is condoned, for instance in Ephesians 6:5 NLT, 1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT, and Luke 12:47-48 NLT. I personally don't think the bible is the best reference for moral code, in fact I think it promotes intolerance imo. Just look at the Westboro Baptist Church, they are simply following the word of god to a tee and not cherry picking the good parts. For all intense purposes the WBBC could be viewed as "true" christians as they recognize and express not just the good but also the bad within the bible. Having said that though, I think the WBBC members are insane. If you strive to have a christlike relationship with god, more power to you, as I said, life's purpose is finding happiness imo, and if having a relationship with god does it for you than thats awesome, but it's not for everyone. Good talks, take care.

[thatoneguy]

main thing is you cannot use logic and facts and mix it with faith of the heart doesnt work that way. Many try to simplify the logic and so many facts to back their claims as to say Jesus never existed and God doesnt exist yet they cannot prove that he doesnt neither. For me, it means what i believe with my heart and the feeling of just knowing he exists and died on the cross willingly for me and my sins that way i could have a chance in his father's kingdom when i leave of the flesh. Without his mercy and grace none of us would have a chance to enter the kingdom of heaven the only way is though Lord Jesus Christ.

P.s god looks into a woman's and man's heart not his logic aand brain he doesnt care about that. He cares whats in your heart and if you want to know him or have a relationship with God, so you must seek him.

BINGO!

It's all about the FAITH. Either you choose to deny what science has proven (billions of years of earth) or you believe a book written while the earth was still flat. We'll probably all be dead and gone when this happens, but mark my words:

History has shown us that various gods and dieties have come and gone, so after 2000 years, we're on the verge of a new one.

My personal opinion is that it will be extra terrestrial related.

Either they exist and the documented stories back this up, or,

they don't exist, and it's just a play on the media by the powers that be.

[NEODinar]

C'mon Neo, Its a test. He's testing YOU! LOL.

Lol! RIght, just like the dinosaur bones : )

Naaa not really. But everyone else is doing a fine job +1 to everybody. I will just stick to name calling

Its what I do best.

A mans got to know his limitations hahahahahahahahaha

That's pretty funny I'll admit.

[thatoneguy]

Does evil exist? (Not Einstein's as some may have heard.)

The university professor challenged his students with this question. Did God create everything that exists? A student bravely replied yes, he did!" "God created everything?" The professor asked. "Yes, sir," the student replied.

Then who created god? Or is he/she just god and that's the way it is?

(Sorry i'm bringing up old shite, I just got on here. Happy to see a civil discussion/debate. Kudos!)

As for God creating evil...and allowing His children to suffer...it's not up to God to "fix" this world. It's up to us. We messed things up in the first place, and it's our responsibility to set things right.

But to blame God for what man has done is just wrong.

But god fixed the world with 40 days and nights of rain. Yes?

How bout his son? Jesus?

The coming rapture where he'll fix the world again, according to the far out bible people?

This gets my wheels spinning on things that us or god has no control over!

I was a bit distracted when I was writing that last post.

Those 66 books were written by men over a 1500 year time span. This country has only been around for 236 years and look at how much our society has changed.

Exactly... Thank TV, phone, and net for a rapid acceleration of awareness and BS!

Think about another 200 years! I mean, our technology is crazy... And that's the stuff we know about!

Hence fuel for my ET for the future of mankind. That is sellable to the masses of, well, the uninformed.

[dog53]

Then who created god? Or is he/she just god and that's the way it is?

(Sorry i'm bringing up old shite, I just got on here. Happy to see a civil discussion/debate. Kudos!)

But god fixed the world with 40 days and nights of rain. Yes?

How bout his son? Jesus?

The coming rapture where he'll fix the world again, according to the far out bible people?

This gets my wheels spinning on things that us or god has no control over!

Exactly... Thank TV, phone, and net for a rapid acceleration of awareness and BS!

Think about another 200 years! I mean, our technology is crazy... And that's the stuff we know about!

Hence fuel for my ET for the future of mankind. That is sellable to the masses of, well, the uninformed.

hahahahahahah You chastised me for bringing nothing to the table. Then you go plop down the alliens. hahahahahaha

Go Figure

[thatoneguy]

hahahahahahah You chastised me for bringing nothing to the table. Then you go plop down the alliens. hahahahahaha

Go Figure

Your good. You have the bible. No worries for you. Just the way the elite like it.

And for the record, I didn't come on this thread calling people names. Chao.

Edited April 4, 2012 by thatoneguy

[dog53]

Your good. You have the bible. No worries for you. Just the way the elite like it.

And for the record, I didn't come on this thread calling people names. Chao.

Yeah I have my bible and a few thousand rounds of ammo . I guess Im in pretty good shape

[thatoneguy]

Yeah I have my bible and a few thousand rounds of ammo . I guess Im in pretty good shape

And savoy name calling skills. WooHoo. Tell'em big boy, "come and get some"!

[dog53]

And savoy name calling skills. WooHoo. Tell'em big boy, "come and get some"!

Hey I screw with everybody . No harm intended Just kidding amigo. Don't take this crap seriously . Loosen up. Its all good

With all the crap going on in this country hey just a little comic relief

You have my sincerest apologies my good man

[thatoneguy]

Hey I screw with everybody . No harm intended Just kidding amigo. Don't take this crap seriously . Loosen up. Its all good

With all the crap going on in this country hey just a little comic relief

You have my sincerest apologies my good man

No worries, Dog. I'd like to think my skin is pretty thick.

Just pick and choose your battles wisely as some members aren't so thick skinned.

So I've heard.

[Mack0121]

Then who created god? Or is he/she just god and that's the way it is?

(Sorry i'm bringing up old shite, I just got on here. Happy to see a civil discussion/debate. Kudos!)

But god fixed the world with 40 days and nights of rain. Yes?

How bout his son? Jesus?

The coming rapture where he'll fix the world again, according to the far out bible people?

This gets my wheels spinning on things that us or god has no control over!

Exactly... Thank TV, phone, and net for a rapid acceleration of awareness and BS!

Think about another 200 years! I mean, our technology is crazy... And that's the stuff we know about!

Hence fuel for my ET for the future of mankind. That is sellable to the masses of, well, the uninformed.

Ok...first the flood. When the book of Genesis was written, the entire "world" was pretty much the middle east. There was a flood in the general area of Mt. Sinai roughly around the time indicated in Genesis. This has been archeologically proven. The Bible is not the only place you will find a story about a worldwide flood. Sumerians and Babylonians also had flood stories. So, yes, in all likelihood, their "world" was flooded.

Did God send the flood? I don't know. I wasn't there. Many take it on faith that He did. I tend to think He warned people that the flood was coming and Noah took action to save his family.

Now...to point two. What about Jesus? I don't know what you're saying here...

Point three...the rapture. Pieced together theory based on cherry picking verses from the Old and New Testament. Again, no one knows for sure. We'll just have to see.

Point four...what, pray tell, do we not have control over?

[thatoneguy]

Ok...first the flood. When the book of Genesis was written, the entire "world" was pretty much the middle east. There was a flood in the general area of Mt. Sinai roughly around the time indicated in Genesis. This has been archeologically proven. The Bible is not the only place you will find a story about a worldwide flood. Sumerians and Babylonians also had flood stories. So, yes, in all likelihood, their "world" was flooded.

Did God send the flood? I don't know. I wasn't there. Many take it on faith that He did. I tend to think He warned people that the flood was coming and Noah took action to save his family.

Now...to point two. What about Jesus? I don't know what you're saying here...

Point three...the rapture. Pieced together theory based on cherry picking verses from the Old and New Testament. Again, no one knows for sure. We'll just have to see.

Point four...what, pray tell, do we not have control over?

I find that you state that the center of our world was only in the ME.

given that the 'biblical' earth is only around 10,000 years old, that would put many civilizations around the world.

The dawn of modern homo sapiens occurred in Africa between 60,000 and 80,000 years ago. Evidence of modern man's migration out of the African continent has been documented in Australia and Central Asia at 50,000 years and in Europe at 40,000 years. The fact that humans could have been in North America at or near the same time is expected to spark debate among archaeologists worldwide, raising new questions on the origin and migration of the human species.

I mention jesus cos god fixes 'things', right? So there you go. He gave is only begotten son.....

I'm afraid that the powers that be may use something biblical for their gain. With much talk of population control, and the masses being of catholic/christian faith, any survivors that weren't hunkered down in chosen 'safe caves' will simply be told that it must have been rapture, and they must have been chosen. Hook, line, and sinker.

[Mack0121]

I find that you state that the center of our world was only in the ME.

given that the 'biblical' earth is only around 10,000 years old, that would put many civilizations around the world.

The dawn of modern homo sapiens occurred in Africa between 60,000 and 80,000 years ago. Evidence of modern man's migration out of the African continent has been documented in Australia and Central Asia at 50,000 years and in Europe at 40,000 years. The fact that humans could have been in North America at or near the same time is expected to spark debate among archaeologists worldwide, raising new questions on the origin and migration of the human species.

I mention jesus cos god fixes 'things', right? So there you go. He gave is only begotten son.....

I'm afraid that the powers that be may use something biblical for their gain. With much talk of population control, and the masses being of catholic/christian faith, any survivors that weren't hunkered down in chosen 'safe caves' will simply be told that it must have been rapture, and they must have been chosen. Hook, line, and sinker.

The fertile crescent between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers is often called the "Cradle of Society"due to the incredibly large amount of discovery and development that took place among the peoples of that area...there were other indigenous peoples around the globe, but the flood stories are predominantly middle eastern...and I did NOT state that the ME was the center of the world...what I said was for the writer(s) of the book of Genesis, that area was for all intents and purposes, their whole world.

I never said God fixes things. I said that we need to fix the mess we made...and continue to make. We are responsible for the state our world is in. We have the ability to make this a much better place. It begins by understanding that we are all one...and what we do or think matters. Which is exactly the message Jesus brought us.

As to your last point...the rapture won't work that way...if indeed it happens. Those chosen to be raptured will be taken in an instant...no warning...no time for anyone to get to caves for safety. The powers that be don't need Biblical stories to blind the masses. They do it every day under the guise of national security.

[Shabibilicious]

The fertile crescent between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers is often called the "Cradle of Society"due to the incredibly large amount of discovery and development that took place among the peoples of that area...there were other indigenous peoples around the globe, but the flood stories are predominantly middle eastern...and I did NOT state that the ME was the center of the world...what I said was for the writer(s) of the book of Genesis, that area was for all intents and purposes, their whole world.

I never said God fixes things. I said that we need to fix the mess we made...and continue to make. We are responsible for the state our world is in. We have the ability to make this a much better place. It begins by understanding that we are all one...and what we do or think matters. Which is exactly the message Jesus brought us.

As to your last point...the rapture won't work that way...if indeed it happens. Those chosen to be raptured will be taken in an instant...no warning...no time for anyone to get to caves for safety. The powers that be don't need Biblical stories to blind the masses. They do it every day under the guise of national security.

Mack, after scanning "Come in and see the crazy side of DV" on numerous occasions, and then reading the well versed information you have brought to this thread, all I can say is...........YOU DA MAN!!!!

GO RV, then BV

[Mack0121]

Mack, after scanning "Come in and see the crazy side of DV" on numerous occasions, and then reading the well versed information you have brought to this thread, all I can say is...........YOU DA MAN!!!!

GO RV, then BV

Can't be serious all the time...makes you grow old faster

And the next time you're scanning the Crazy Side, stop a while and say hi. We won't bite...too hard

[BrokeNoMore]

Long, but looks very interesting - I'll have to do this one later. Over a good cup of coffee and with my Bible in hand.

I hope you got the chance. I went to listen, and "it's been removed by the user." :angry:

[Mack0121]

I hope you got the chance. I went to listen, and "it's been removed by the user." :angry:

Must have been too controversial

[Mack0121]

It always seems strange to me that anyone can look into space on a dark, starry night and not feel or know God. It seems strange that someone can see the accuracy of the Earth, placed just so (within inches) in space, with a moon placed just so to keep it at a certain angle from the sun, that one can look at growing things, every day bringing a different day than the one before, that the planets all align perfectly to keep the Earth in balance just so, that the human mind is so much more complex and advanced with so little extra wiring or matter than are in the minds of great apes, that the very Universe bursting out of nothingness even exists, and yet, a Creator does not. It seems strange that someone can see the NASA picture of the "beautiful blue ball" that is Earth, blue because it is one of the rarest of all things in all of space, a planet with so much water, and not discern a purpose behind its uniqueness.

It seems strange that a person would even be able to think of God without God to put that idea in the human mind that conceived this thought. It seems strange that a person can argue against the existence of God, and yet, not believe in the God he perceived. How can a person even conceive of the idea of a God unless God exists? For example, can you think of an absolutely new, never-before-seen color? One not a blend or a lighter or darker shade of any color or colors you have seen before. Can you just make up an entirely new, pristine-to-human-eyes color? And if you could, can you imbue that color with an entirely new emotion, one you have never felt in any of its shadings before? Most of us feel certain emotions when we are in the presence of certain colors. And we also feel certain emotions when we are in nature, whether on the beach or in the mountains, or even in our back yards. This is because the colors of nature create specific emotions, and the colors in art also arouse various emotions. But can you make up an entirely new emotion, one outside the realm of normal human emotions, one never described before, and then, can you describe how humans feel when they are in the presence of that color? If you can't imagine a new, never-before-seen color, or a new emotion that might be aroused by it, then how on earth does the human mind have the capacity to imagine God, without a reality of God?

Can you imagine your own child, a child that is unborn? Of course, you can imagine that child, but can you imagine a time when that child's child's child's child's child's child, ad infinitum, may live and dream and carry life forward? Can you actually see that distant-future child in your mind's eye? Do you sense a bit of yourself in that child? What about you would live on in that child? Is it your kindness? Your sense of humor? Your laughter? Your cute dimples? Your intelligence? And if so, would that child think as you think, feel like you feel in the same circumstances, and know that somewhere back there, you existed, as evidenced in his own capacity to think and mull over ideas and come to conclusions as you do? Human beings are the only creatures on earth with the capacity to actually imagine something existing either before or after their own lives. Human beings are the only creatures on earth that are capable of abstract thought. That and our opposable thumb allow us to build Trade Center buildings, to go deep into the trenches of the Atlantic Ocean, and to to set sail into space--and then to return. We dream deep dreams, think long thoughts and imagine cities and dams and tractors and space ships long before they exist. But we can't imagine a color that didn't exist before we thought of it. But . . . we can imagine God. Hmm . . .

We live in a four dimensional universe, length, width, height, and thanks to Einstein, time. "I'll meet you at 13th and Main (length and width), on the 14th floor (height), at 2 o'clock (time)." But placed on a grid, science finds it necessary to make it a ten dimensional grid (I have no clue why), so some of them believe ours is a baby universe that escaped a larger Universe which actually has the ten dimensions, six of which we are missing. Physicists have drawn schematics of this grid, and have conjectured about more or fewer abilities humans would or would not have if we were still part of that original universe, or if we lived in a smaller one, say one with two dimensions. Given that we live in this particular universe, we have certain capabilities based on the dimensions of the universe in which we live. Those include our capabilites for intelligent thought. Remember, we can think of God, but we can't think of a new color. . . . So based on your capacity for intelligent thought, and based on your imagination which allows you to envision events and people that existed before or will come after your own life, and based on your capacity to even think of God at all, God must exist, or this conversation would not be possible.

Francie, I don't know how I missed this post, but you are 100% correct. It is the Divine spark within us that allows us to even contemplate the existence of God in the first place. Without that, there is no thought...we'd be no better than an amoeba bouncing from stimuli to stimuli.

Brilliant summation...wish I could give you more than 1 +