caughtinthecrossfire

Ah...nvm, fnb. Found something on it that krome2ez posted in Jan2012 when CBI announced it's first $60billion in reserves. "Saleh told Alsumarianews explaining that the highest reserve scored was in the end of 2010 when it reached 50 billion dollars then in the end of September 2011 when it increased to 58 billion dollars." Read more: http://dinarvets.com.../#ixzz1qpKhMvU8 Seems like a short 10mths (guessing) to go from $50bil (end of 2010) to $58bil (Sept 2011). Then in Jan to announce it at an historical $60bil. I'm kind of excited that we might see a newer number in a month or so? Hmmm...it'd be nice to dream that number would be about $70+ billion by June! lol:D

Yeah, +'s to ya fo sho. Clearly these are all factors to support a revaluation. Knowing that Iraq is clarifying these things correctly certainly gets me excited. Siiiigh...now if they'll just take the U.S. as a model NOT to follow...we're all good. Hey, fnb...do you happen to know right off when they released the new reserves amounts? I'm curious to know when it will increase again and by how much.

Tensions have been very high since last October, IMO, at least here on DV (I do not visit other sites...period). The level of excitement over actual progress in Iraq most likely translates to more like anxiety after so many have held out hope for so long on this speculation. With every positive news feed we get the anxiety builds...especially for those who have been invested for more than three/four years. I have to admit...posting a joke on a news site...poor taste. I feel certain it did not have the intended results with every reader. Then again...the regular mix of bad translation articles we get on Iraq have pretty much the same effect. Kidd...I noticed you are less than a day old. Are you a regular poster here who made an alternate log in to express your anger? Or are you a reader who was angered enough to create a log in so that you could express it? Either way...I do think your reaction to this easily debunked article should be more like DV reactions to articles that we call "smoke and mirrors". I have to think you are extremely anxious about the dinar right now. Don't let that anxiety make you do something as wasteful as spending money on an Atty. You think you have anxiety now? File a lawsuit...that will certainly bring you to a whole new level of anxiety. I think the best thing is to write a letter (with signatures if you want ) to the editor that isn't disrespectful but still firm...just say'n...I feel your pain but getting yourself an Atty and trying to build a list of signatures for a class action suit...is frivolous. I hope within a week or so...this doesn't irk you out so much and will be forgotten. Heck, I hope in a week or so we're all standing in line at the bank to cash in (not holding my breath on THAT soon, though).

Ok, for a few secs I thought the April fool stuff was getting outta hand and spilling over its one day alotment. lol That was until one of the comments on the product indicated it was a powersource campatable with most Time Machines. Man...can't wait until they go into production!!! noice one, jeep.

Do muh huh??? Is this like a lingering (like a fart) April Fools thingie?

secretsecret...I'vegotasecret~~In the words of STYX.... Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto.

So very true...and refreshing new smell compared to Okieite fodder. lol Yes, I too, ty for the post. Truth to it or not...nice distraction while we hide and watch.

I love watching anything Zabari is directly involved with. This guy...to me...seems so completely genuine and really has both Iraq and Kurds at heart in handling affairs. For the most part, he is not confrontational at all and just listening to him speak can make a person really believe that Iraq has a solid foot forward. He can take a difficult situation and speak of it in terms that keep you from getting discouraged by what might not seem too optimistic. With Kuwait, it's great to see the momentum has not diminished. Iraq seems to be moving their feet in a faster pace this year and def seem to be getting support from Kuwait despite the harsh news releases back in Dec of last year. Thanks for the post. Wish everyone the best.

The Okie understatement of the year...and, sadly...the only hint of truth he stated in that entire puke fest: "...I AM UNCLEAR..."

One last comment i forgot to include earlier. About that RV...def not saying it's massive so please don't suggest zul and I are Okieites...but for the reasons of Iraqi debt has there been a long standing factor (reasonable) for the delay of a RV. In terms of debt, Iraq would be far better in standing if they reduced their debt/deficit before an RV of any size greater than a few hundred "pips" as they seem to be calling it since the recent exchange adjustment. I do not persoanlly think an RV effects contractual amounts of cash like, for instance, costs of imports (or even incountry market prices). Iraq is not going to hyperinflate more from effects of an RV. The cost of a can of beans will not suddenly tripple in price because the dinar suddenly gains...let's just say 3X's it's current value. They are not the U.S. where we see overpricing on a grand scale and they certainly wouldn't see it as quickly as we do in the U.S. market. Anyway, before I start adding too many 0's to the price of beans like I tend to do with oil...I'll just say this. Your comment to zul doesn't sound like a reply. An RD or a LoP is not determined by the same factors that an RV is determined. The former two are used as inflationary controls from the sounds of it. An RV on any level is based off of the determination of a country's debt first and formost...it's recovery of expenditures secondly...and thirdly...the central banks reserves-the required amount determined by the dinar in circulation, I'd think primary. The first two considerations I gave are a budget outside of the CBI's are they not? Anyway...just say'n...I don't see any kind of reply to the comment zul made...at least one that merits your "Guess by your thinking" comment. ok, for reeelz and truuuuuz...I'm off to dream land now. Nite nite.

Frank,you're right...I stated a few xtra zeros. Thanks for pointing that out. I said: 320 days of production....3.4million barrels/day (link)...$60 per barrel 3.4million X 320 days of production=1,088,000,000 billion (luv commas, HA!) 1,088,000,000 x $60/barrell=65,280,000,000 billion per year. My bad and again, thanks for correction pointed out. It sure makes much more sense in my head now but...we're talking about 65billion a year. That's with a huge chunk taken out of the costs to reduce from $100-110/barreland we have not added in the reduction of import costs Iraq will see within two years. I always keep comming back to deficite. Iraq has had so many reductions in their debts and more I am sure are to be completed. These are circumstances that encourage an RV vs LoP in any day especially, as I have to keep saying, that LoPs have always been built around the this inflation rate. (i think I mistyped interest rate earlier?) Thanks, dinarck. Night to ya. Yeah, I'm over due too. One calc test in a day was bad enough...i just had to go push my luck with counting dollars. HA! Again, Frank, ty for the correction. Night all. I'll pop in again another night.

Yeah, I never got an answer the the question why...and still have no legit reason. This statement based off of the reasons consistantly posted over last spring and summer as to why the LoP would occur. Again...LoPsters claiming interest rates trigger the timing. Again...LoPsters claiming it solves Iraq's dinar problems...again...the LoP has no reason not to have occured if indeed it was CBI's intention. OMG...ok...RD...redenomination. New bills. Bills reflecting no excessive 0's. LoP...electronic or however you want to argure the immaginary visualization of the dinar in you hand. 10000 (with one eye covered) equals 10? Siiiigh. If they LoP...they will eventually RD. If they RV...they will eventually RD....If they wanted to LoP...it would not still be an eventuallity...it would have been history. Please bury the horse..it is starting to smell.

Again....you are quoting numbers that I clearly...if you bothered reading something other than the #'s in my post....was questioning based off of the number of days of production...the profit per barrel minus the overhead (budget aside if they end up with no deficite again the argument for value of USD over dinar)....and the projected number of barrels per day the central gov said will be possible by end of year. I gave my link. Please correct me if I'm wrong on the 320 days of production ...but better yet...expain in COMMON english, lol, why what you say is so low vs what they numbers they give determine.

First off, I'll def say I see your point in the production vs spending...this will help clarify what I mean: "EIA estimates it costs U.S. oil companies an average of about $24 a barrel to find, develop and produce oil worldwide, but that doesn't include costs like transportation, administration, or income taxes - which can be substantial. While Exxon made $40 billion in 2007, a 60% increase from 2004, it paid $100 billion in taxes and royalties..." http://money.cnn.com...allon/index.htm However, some of the cost they speak of were negotiated and even if Iraq ends up only making a mere $5/barrel...it's still an easy 5trillion profit for a 320 day year of production. Again I have to ask...where are these numbers breaking down so badly? And are you saying that Iraq will spend more than 5 trillion next year? Wouldn't that just leave them with no deficite...kind of like 16X better than the U.S. situation atm??? PAAAA leeeeze hep meh unda stayund!! and again, I ask yaz...why are you saying they might not have authority to print or RV? I think we both know that the powers that be...IMF+several...has never said Iraq's currency was worthless. Indeed....if you add up the numbers I am speaking of...their currency looks undervalued to say the least. In fact, if an RV was intended...it goes back to an already dead horse that Iraq or any other authority would not want that info going public. So...again...why LoP the "prove your RV stance" back at us as a question. I, myself, am just trying to really understand something I admit I might be looking too simplistically at. Thanks, dinarck when the hey did I say anything about Iraq RDing?? Why'd you quote me when saying that???? Yer killin meh!! My comment was about the LoP models you guys threw around here for several months before I finally joined the forum. I never said anything about the RD. However...if they LoP...and RD is a no brainer over several years to make the exchange even easier. That said...the LoP...as it has consistantly been presented for the solid yer I followed this section....has NO reason not have happened. NO set backs. NADDA ZIP...KAZERO

That was a topic I NEVER got a str8 answer on, zul. I asked that sooo many times last Aug...Sept...and again last month I think. Never got a good answer or even a peep from someone willing to challenge that VERY common sense idea. The chants the lop section were moaning early spring last year preached a world of lop based off of interest rates decrease...sustainablility...and then slow increase. If you follow CBI or Bloomberg (well if you can find the older articles now) you could see where Iraq had been in the perfect positon to LoP if indeed that was EVEN a realistic need or desire. Not to mention such a rational solution.

I'm gud, dinarck tyty as far as legitimatly wrong...er...that's kind of what I'm saying...what you are saying is not telling me zul or anyone else was legitimatly wrong. just say'n. If they say they intend to produce X amount of oil per day....and they are producing oil 320 days AT LEAST per year...why does the cost/charge per barrell not clearly indicate that SOMEONE's #'s are not correct...or at least which set is not correct and why. I guess that...if you read what I posted...I was making that point. Please explain how they can't be making more than you are using $ wise per year if days of the year they are in production and amount they produce is a given and an extremely low estimate of trade off value of $60/barrell. I will admit...I am basing my statement of 320/year production off of memory from an article that is likely two years old now. I have no idea where to find it but i suspect you could think of it right off the top of your head if you're as savy as you seem to indicate.

Dude, there yall go with that poverished people thing agian. Every thing I have been reading indicates that only 1/3rd the pop is poor and the majority of them are not impoverished. Most of the poor live in the outlying areas. Those numbers are not so much poor as they are technically challenged in terms of global wealth. Farmers provide for their families but the majority suffer mostly in terms of medical treatment availability. that 1/3 HAS to be far less than 1/4 in terms of actually poverty stricken people. The term "poor" I see you and Legolas use is not appropriately used. Iraq is NOT NOT NOT the 5th poorest nation as I've seen stated in this section. Serve me up some crow on that....please...but stop saying they are sooo poor until you can back up that notion.

Wow, zul...I was sooo right on your heals with that one. I was completely tracking with you...er...I think.... but yeah, dinarck...I don't mean it to be an arse...I just think I understood what zul was saying in these terms. I have NO idea how to use the M2 thingy in a sentence "M2 are the cutest cuple, aint they?"

siiiigh....y'know...I want so much to enjoy both sides to the speculation...three if you divide between LoP RD and RV I am getting a bit frustrated though reading along. dinark, you know I posted last week. I am slow at my reply times but...I do try. My point of frustration is when a nonLop person comments, their resoning is drawn into question for looking at bonafied info with a common sense view. For me, I look at things that come out in the news stating facts like more than 1trillion barrels per year to be produced(per the Cental Gov will be pumped at a cost of we'll just keep it simple at say...a sweet deal of $60/barrel in USD(naturally minus projected loss to pay back infrastructure investors)....please explain to my how that does not go a very long way to back up an argument for RV potential. If you throw your M2 commentary into the mix...you are not encouraging anyone to understand. I took the comment to say that what comes in vs what is being spent in the budget is giving serious credit to the dinar being an undervalued currency that needs revaluation. Please don't throw out numbers for dinar printed. What is actually in circulation is still under even MORE speculation. all my opinion...but my comment is ment to stay focused on what zul said. I read things like this link and see a lot of money being made by Iraq. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-27/kurds-may-halt-crude-exports-if-iraq-withholds-1-5-billion-1-.html with the standard $100-110 being reduced to $60/barrel per day...in a year with 320 (I wish I could remember the article that I read they had 320 days of production prior to increases in prod) days of production and relatively no change to the price per barrell...please tell me why the math does not reflect an annual income of USD totalling over 65trillion? I mean....you can throw terms like M2 at me all day, but if you continue to talk down (not talking down to you) to folks with big stuff like M2...I read it and scratch my head asking those who presume to understand so much..."why the heck does this income of 65trillion dollars (lawd knows how many dinar ) not boost revaluation potential. You'll need to break it down a bit more than just throwing an acronym like M2 around for me and then "Lopping" the ball back in our court for "you say it will RV..why" I really hope you get what I'm saying to you dinarck...it's jus that you spew info out that seems (intended) to over ride and sidetrack what a previous poster legitimately stated.

Hahaha....if you watch this video from FatMan's post, toward the middle (1:20 time stamp I think), it seems they're made in KOREA. BWAAA HA HA HA HA!

They would go on a killing spree breaking down doors and mowing down anyone suspected of holding a 25,000 note worth 23 USD the day before and 2,300 USD now. Just enough time to reply to your last comment amigo...about that terrorist stuff... I think the articles in the news we saw last week indicates that education for the SERIOUS need to use a bank account is validated by your very realistic prediction. There has been a push for citizend to open accounts for nearly a year now. Don't think for a second that citizens will not open one if they suddenly have something so valuable stashed under their burka. I do NOT think it would be so wide spread as you suggests, though. I don't understand why everyone still thinks Iraq is so helpless. If that were true...the terrorists would already be taking over Baghdad and stealing all that gold they recently announced finding in the area. Also about that "Then we come back again to the change issue. There is no way to make change for all those 000 notes after a huge RV. It isnt possible in a cash based country. Now the one I have been waiting for." The original posting suggested there were so many poor people that most would not even have a 25k note to hold. Again, my point woud be that bank accounts would open faster than you could shoot a bullet. The populace has been warned and is continuing to be educated. Also again...it is NOT as bad as you suggest. I still see nothing that says an RV will cause such horrible things in Iraq. Lastly (Im sooo tired) "Yes the two currencies will coexsist but if you are only getting change in old dinar then the new dinar is pretty pointless." I tried to make it clear that I thought they would issue change using the new dinar for any purchases using old notes. How difficult is it for shop owners to have some available to use over a period of time until all old are traded/spent/deposited? LOL, ok, I giiiive....I giiiiive! SQUEEEEEEEL!! lol dinark, ty and I'll try to follow up if I have time during classes this week.

OMG, my eyes are bloodshot, amigo. LOL I'll just follow up with this. Initially, I commented on facts that weren't correct as being "considerations" for the RD then slow RV model. I still don't see where Iraq is the 5th poorest nation in the world, nor do I see any facts that credit thinking "chaos, riots, and murders" will ensue after a substantial RV. That said, I'll take a fast crack a seeing if I follow you. You said... Here you are kind of backwards on your rational. The US is MUCH less likely to experience hyperinflation due to their massive GDP and the fact that they are a reserve currency with a high demand around the globe. Iraq has a currency already in a hyperinflated state and it is all they can do to keep it stable. I mean they have to flood their own market with USD just to keep the value of their currency from going into the crapper." I agree that I might be backwards... but... It's because I'm not sure we see them flooding their market with USD. CBI reserves are showing as being held at 60B. Haven't we seen scores of comments saying the USD was flying out to other countries that are sanctioned currently? If that is the case and Iraq really does need all that USD on its streets...shouldn't we have seen a huge drop in CBI reserves...and I do mean a HUGE spike in the inflation rate already? Currently: Core inflation (YoY): Feb 2012 6.30% Inflation (YoY): Feb 2012 5.73% CBI says differently and it's actually gone down compared to prior sanctions on Iran and USD flying across the border. Doesn't seem to be the USD in circulation affecting inflation so drastically. I do recall that last year around this time, it was more influenced by Ramadon and housing and such...You'd think a few weeks of mass migration of USD would have effected at least one month of numbers drastically, wouldn't you? I'd also like to note that compared in size...what makes the USD so strong when shadowed by the deficite? How much do WE have in circulation outside our own borders compared to inside? If we're so strong why are we dropping in rating while Iraq is expected to grow? If you can tell beyond speculation that Iraq has more than 60% of it's dinar in circulation...i might worry. Then again, I might think that 25% of that 60 is held by speculators waiting to cash in...ha! I dunno...maybe I am backwards. But I still think that...pegged to the USD...means holding the currency up until Iraq has met all IMF requirements for this following membership I posted about (and sadly got very little attention). Iraq is not looking to just rebuild itself...it is working to become a major world player...and doing so by the numbers. HCL Acceptance of Iraq could validate all global support. Read more: http://dinarvets.com.../#ixzz1piUKPrO6 I do think that the world banks will take direction from the IMF and others like the UN. Yes...I do think that Iraq potential is discredited only by those who are too obstinant to realize that Iraq is not going to stop until they have made themselves a real world player. You say the banks are not accepting that Iraq is a potential big player...I say they just have not been informed that they are yet. Banks do answer to a higher power. They also react to sudden market potentials that open up...like currency that has the blessing of the IMF...the UN...and the Arab leaders, China, Korea...the U.S. of A. . Do you think Iraq falls into the normal RD scenario? No, they do not, my friend. Nor will the banks look at Iraq as the normal RV scenario and they most certainly will accept a new rate if IMF gives approval. Do you think the banks will decide if China revalues by its own devices? No...they wait for a global concensus, dinark. I promise you, when the CBI changes something...it is orchestrated with direction from more than Shabs. He is following a very careful plan. The above link only shows a portion of setting that plan up legally so that banks cannot (other countries cannot) later contest it. Why do you think they are being so transparent with their budget? The reveiw of this is up VERY soon and I hold that it is a huge approval. So....you also noted... Any country that has 60 trillions units of currency in existence is vulnerable to the possibility of massive future hyperinflation if they dont play their cards right. A card they do not posses is a 100,000% overnight RV because that card doesnt exsist. Only in dinar land on on this wonderful invention we call the internet. Maybe you are right...but then, I have yet to see that 60t validated yet. I've seen it thrown around several times...but the amount in circulation is always questioned. You holding out on info you need to share? Or are you just saying most of that is not in CBI possession? In any case...once CBI has crossed every T and dotted every I as in the example I gave above...they will be closer to kicking the USD crutch out from under the arm of CBI and the currency Revaluation being first....will make the RD a much easier and usefull process. After all...if they are so very fragile...why do they bother with the RD at all. You suggest with your lack of support in their potential...that is is just throwing good money after bad anyway. I'm just saying my friend. I have much more belief that Iraq is going to be successful and very soon. I do not see them taking such caution and spend so much money in preparations for something as common as an RD. Ok...I am D U N...done.......I only wanted to hear where Legolas got the "Iraq is 5th poorest nation" info from when I made my first comment. Heck, never did get an answer. I honestly didn't come prepared to debate with such length over everything dinar. I just wanted to point out that nothing rational indicates that Iraq would go nuts in turmoil and murdering rampages in the poor sectors' grocery stores because of an RV. You, sir, are a trooper for not being rude with me and for following so patiently with me, too.

DINARK!! I'm sorry it took me more than two hours to reply...it took nearly an hour just to type this so that it FULLY answered ( ?) the questions you asked me. Oy...I've really commited myself, haven't I. LOL...ok, deep breath as I start and remember...I'm not versed in economics. Most of my post was hoping to get answers...as some of your reply gave ( ty ). Let me mark your comments in green to make it easier to follow (since Legolas took blue, he he) "I already posted the definition of inflation....." Yes, you did, and I was commenting that Iraq would not attempt hyperinflation practices and would infact deter the use of them in the market (for probobly the initial few years anyway). Remember...Iraq is nothing like the U.S. in terms of being so market driven that they hyperinflate at a whim of the marketplace...at least not yet. My point was to say that UNLIKE THE U.S., they have a set USD value of goods and services required by those materials, goods, services, contracts...ect...and just because a dinar will buy another loaf of bread more than it used to...does not mean the bread will double in price. Indeed...the imports that Iraq sustains will not hyperinflate because they are currently trying to set those trade standards as we speak. You can do your own research from the articles recently released but I drew my own conclusion already. They are making sure, I feel confident in guessing, that exporters will NOT attempt to double or even quadrouple their asking prices just because Iraq's currency is suddenly reflecting a more realistic value. The dollar did not change in this senario...the IQD changed. Let me make a point...imports are a GOOD thing going for Iraq in that respect right now because (prior to an RV) there is very little IN country to hyperinflate. What you suggest with this simple comment is that (just for instance) the U.S. will suddenly charge 2billion for wheat imported to Iraq instead of a prior RV amount of 1billion. I do not see any possible truth to that future outcome...or Iraq would never do business with a U.S. company (or some other) again. As far as internal pricing goes...every vendor for bread/wheat will have to respect the demands of the government in their consumer relations. ESPECIALLY in Iraq...that is, again, nothing like in the U.S.! Please remember this distinction throughout my thoughts and always recall that We have had 200+ years of free market to go nuts in an instant. "Next you talk about the price of oil...." I'm not going into that one. I did not go into the price so much as used it ONLY as one example of what Iraq uses to back its currency value. Related to other countries with higher populations and more poverty and less production and less reserves...it was a great simple example. Again...only mentioned it as on of many things backing the IQD value in the future (and future faith in the value) and made a strong mention of the fact the IQD is reflecting a market value while it is an UNTRADEABLE currency. When it goes global...you will not be seeing the IQD this weak, I assure you. Make no mistake that in and of itself...this statement I just made is huge even for someone as unversed as myself. "Next you talk about people around the world investing in Iraq which is true. What does this have to do with their hyperinflated currency?" What has hyperinflation got to do with my statement at that point in my post? I was already talking infrastructure of banking, oil export efficiency, import vs. export merchendise...and about the potential for an RV (1:1 as an example) to instantly impact poverty and promote entrepreneurship. I did not in any way suggest some CRAZY RV amount or say it would equal Kuwait. I was using Kuwait as an example by population and production of oil specifically as a gauge for my coment. Also, I never suggested infrastructure was in place enough for free market to pollute the economy with hyperinflation so quickly. You are again...placing such a huge "wolf! wolf!" thought process here that I see as premature. PLEASE do not take that as insulting...I'm doing my best not to sound like some hick from the woods (which I'm not far from being) and I may miss use the larger words. ha ha. However, hyperinflation we see in established infrastructures will in no way be equal to what we might expect from Iraq over several years. "Next is something about imports but I kind of fail to follow you. I will say that Iraq would benefit from a higher exchange rate to make imports cheaper but only after a RD because a 1000 times overnight increase isnt possible." Ok...I think I kind of covered this above. I was using wheat/grain/produce imports primarily as a way to show the dependency Iraq has on these things currently. However, I took the time to clearly show that Iraq is returning to it's strong and self sustaining days of the agriculture and produce market. My more precise use of this was to indicate that expendatures that paid the market would not be budgeted at such a cost in the future. The implication was that the cost of some imports would redirect to spending on an internal budget that would promote and sustain agricultural workers being paid for their product that the Kurdistan region is already trying to redevelope. "Next you state that a significant RV would not cause chaos or hyperinflation but I think we have shown reasonably that it would. If you disagree here then please state why so we can discuss." First off...no, I do not think it will cause chaos but then, I'm not suggesting a $12 dolloar RV either. Secondly...my original reply to the post was more of an "I asked you first" mentality. I'm still looking for any good reason that you can back up that implies that chaos will ensure, riots will break out, murders will take place...as made mention in the opening of this thread. So again, politely, I asked you first, and I'm still waiting. But to be fair and answer your request for me to "state why" , I will simply suggest this...no where in the history that I can recall have I witnessed news that a country's RV of it's currency caused utter chaos and riots and killings. The ball is back in your court on that one. I'd love to see the facts but would hate to know they proved me wrong at someone elses injury. "Next you talk about contracts and loans being adjusted....You would only have to pay the value you originally owed but it doesnt really matter because it will never happen." There were too many points on this one that came to my mind...so I'll do my best to keep it short. First...who is saying it will never RV? Even the opening of this post suggested it will RV but after an RD only. I say the RD is past its prime for effect and that RV is the real point Iraq was waiting to perform. Your full comment earlier was this RV was pure fantasy but then agian, I never said anything about a $12 RV and only used 1:1 for simplicity. Can it RV at an incredible 10 cent?? I think that horse is dead, now. My real point in the section you are referring to debunked some earlier comment that part of the CHAOS CHAOS would come from interest rates and loans and contracts going off the RV deep end. I simply made a very unmistakeable and solid reply to that and said...no.....an RV would not change a contract based off a former exchange rate. Could contracts have a grace period to save from non compete laws? I'm not a lawyer...but I have enough since to know that massive Exxon contracts would have a loophole the government agreed on somewhere in fine print. "Next you attempt to address the change issue but that doesnt really hold much water. Daily business would not be possible. Period." First I would like to admit...I attempted, HA HA HA...and freely admit that any numbers other than 0 and 1 confuse the hell out of me especially when offered in fractional and sometimes decimal form. HOW EVA!! I have to ask why you said daily business would not be possible? Haven't we all seen where two currencies coexist? If there is an RD as was suggested...I'm simply assuming (as clearly stated in my earlier comments) that the lower Denoms will be sent to out lying cities provences for easily recoverable exchanges and that those with enough money/social standing would easily afford a trip to the big city to exchange their big wads. Almost, I implied persons would get an offer for (one time maybe as an after thought to my statement?) exchange of very small amounts of current dinar bills. Iraq has addressed a possiblility of using phones to manage (now more beneficial) bank accounts and transactions for rural Iraq. Even the poor are not to destitute that they have no phones it would seem. period "Then you say that if a RD is such a good solution then why havent they done it years ago. I would ask the same about the "RV" " Omigosh, I'll try, my friend, but I am soooooo tired. I've been trying to do you justice and not give some HACK job of a reply. I may not have much wisdom in the workings of economics but I am never going to avoid backing up my thoughts for fear of being the fool because I'm here to learn and not Troll for debate...so...with that disclaimer...(and after saying "thank you!!" for the patience with my lengthy reply and delay in posting)... I recall back in late 2010...especially the spring of 2011...there was so very much discussion of "LOP...RD...there will never be an RV". The LOP and RD models were the ones being debated so heavily from late 2010-early 2011 and the one thing they all kept saying was that the timing of implimenting it was based off of the core rate of inflation. I followed those rates as long as my brain could bear it...but even after the dipped to this low magic number and slowly began to climb again...there was NO RD...no LOP. If the LOP was supposed to halt inflation, please explain to me why they did not institute it when the curve reached the lowest point and inflation began to slowly rise again? For all of the arguments...for all of the incessant bravado of who knew what...they kept saying the inflation rate was the key and must be held down for a lengthy(whatever that ment) period of time and slowly begin rising before Shabs LOP'd or RD'd. I would also point out that although the two are different, please do not waste your time trying to explain the distinction because both are the same, really. There isn't enough of a distinction between the two outside some electronic jargon to get my interests again. Anyway...I wish searches could pull up some of these old posts. There were many at one time. You would probobly see my first attempts to get more answers too. No matter how I look at it...info for the RD and for the RV has been rehashed to ribbons. The only tipping point for me was seeing so many people say why an RD would occur. It boiled down to inflation. That boiling point came and went last June. The new bills should have been produced then if RD was the solution to a plan that is now in phase two...no, I think RD was the cover for an RV. But none of the statements above make me think that an RD is more proboble than and RV. The only thing I do agree with is the opening statement of this post in that the two could occur at the same time. I, however, think the RD is an afterthought to the RV. RD does not neccesarily require an RV...but an RV does require an RD at some point to make exchange easier and currency viable for wear/tear outside of Iraq (ha ha ha, and soon to be INSIDE Iraq!). A RV requires timing unlike an RD if I have understood any of the stuff that has been posted about LoPs for the last two years and and RD moment was when inflation dipped low then began to rise again. The cost was everybit as recoverable and neccesary then as it is now, is it not? The timing, however, is far too late by almost a year and any delay excuse is rediculous if the RD is so simple and succesful. Can you give me one good reason an RD would take this long? I could continue searching the heavens for one....BUT... yes...this is my big'ol but... I think when Shabs says the dinar will be strong...he means global value and there IS a push for something global from Iraq.

Although you did not remark on my previous post to your topic, Legolas...I have continued to follow this link. So, I'll drop my request for more information as to your comments on "riots and chaos and the percentage of poor in Iraq with no savings at all"...and how that plays into your initial post's list of "considerations". In regards to this RD with a gradual RV, I will give these other thought to ponder. I keep reading in this thread that an economy cannot handle sudden changes in it's currency value (an INCREASE) if very large changes take place. What takes place when oil prices suddenly sky rocket for a country that exports oil? Prior to the destruction of Iraq's infrastructure it was held below $30/per barrel, correct? Will the price more likely remain triple that going forward a decade? And if it remains at the current rate...should that huge increase not drastically change a previously untradeable currency once it becomes a global currency? My point that I'd like to offer to the debate...a currency is determined in value by both the holdings to back it...as well as the faith people place in using it (locally and globally). Iraq has huge players investing now and after the summit could possibly have other Arab countries invest. Shabs seems to think that there is already a much higher and true value to the dinar despite the infrastructure damage. The population of Iraq is not so large that it cannot not see at least a 1:1 potential. After all, it's three times large than Kuwait and that would make it one third the value due to GDP and (currently planned) infrastructure needed for jobs and exports, blah blah...(yes, I certainly do over simplify) As far as imports effecting this? Agriculture/produce can and will be improved to levels the country held just over a decade ago. Northern Iraq (Kurd region has 5yr plan now in it's third year) has already been working to become self sufficient. The imports we have seen recently are due to the industrialization of produce through the occupation...namely...U.S. exports to Iraq in excess of 1billion are an expense that will likely reduce in a matter of a few years. If the dinar is given a reasonable revalue (and after excess is removed from circulation) chaos nor hyperinflation are inevitable. What economics are you (others besides Legolas) using to imply this? Help the layman understand your reasoning...unless this is a link only for the economic professors who have no need to banter common place understandings. Standing contracts in terms of money value do not have to volley up and down in regards to the extent implied earlier, do they?? The dollar value remains constant (for now) over the dinar. The debts are also held to a USD value, are they not? I AM ASKING, not telling. I want to be engaged in your understanding to better my own. I fail to see the reasons a contractual amount or interest rates would fluctuate if the contracts revolve around a USD target price. Interest rates are also gauged by a USD price, are they not?? If the dinar revalues to say a 1:1, I feel certain that over time, contract prices will vary by increases, but as is...the amount the contract sets it's price on or interest sets it's rate on is the amount in direct relation to the dollar not the dinar and the understood value of the service or loan. PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG but I have followed this forum for several years and this (bottom line in USD value) always seems implied if not outright stated. Therefore...post RV contracts might be haggled over and interest rates of out of country investors might slightly...SLIGHTLY...increase, but nothing changes about the amount the services are considered to be valued at overall. Those who would try to HIKE up prices, I feel certain, will face opposition in a global sense and CERTAINLY within the economic domain of Shabs. An RV simply means that Iraq is going to get more bang for it's buck. It certainly deserves something comparable to the USD if for no other reason than to increase Iraqi citizens desire to use it. This is not just my personal feeling...it is reflected in the news we see from CBI and the general populace of Iraq. Again...I really would love to see someone with legitimate economical wisdom and authority explain this to me if the issue of money markets ect are debated. I am NO expert. I want to understand what you are suggesting. Can you say a sudden revaluation harms an economy with certainty to such a chaotic degree? Will this cause super-hyperinflation? Will an RD first really prevent more than and RV first in terms of the above stated economic damage? Or are there really no founded fears that suggest a redenomination must preceed a revaluation of a currency? If education has hit the streets of Iraq about new denoms...many will look to exchange at a bank. Over a very short time and even initially, smaller notes will be distributed for the rural populace. If the poor, as has been suggested at the opening of this thread, have just a few 25k notes to their names...I think that smaller exchanges can easily be absorbed by CBI from the rural areas with regards to counterfeit risks. Any rural family that has a surplus of notes on hand instead of a bank...can CERTAINLY afford a trip to the city to exchange. Those who continue to hide their money at home in large stashes...they have been warned of the dangers as we have seen in news feeds about theft. If you can argue that RD money can be distributed effectively then you should be able to understand that rural exchanges of dinar will be easy at an RV rate. The education is KEY in either case...RD or RV first (or simultaneously). Again...I feel that an RD as a stand alone solution...is no solution at all or they would have replaced the unused and hindering dinar long ago. The larger cities could have been circulating the currency for nearly two years now. The cost would have been just as absorbable then as it is now if it was considered the first solution. So, unless I'm completly ignorant of a reason that prevented any RD prior to now, an unusually large RV seems more likely a part of their plan. I have not posted in the LOP forum in many many months. I am by no means ADEPT at economics but I'm certainly not scared of trying to follow them. Thanks for the topic, Legolas. and 10 dinar for a loaf of bread sure sounds like ALOT if they RD with even smaller denoms set to something so akin to the USD structure. Heck...even their fils will be 250 to one dinar if I followed the article correctly the other day. Perhaps this rumored denom breakdown could give us insight to the rate of one dinar...if it's like pennies with 250 fill to the dinar, HA!! love it. And sorry, but that article rumoring the denoms got me GOOOO ing! Why create so many low denoms and then coins if it still takes 10 dinar to buy a loaf of bread X 3?? Heck, unless you plan on only purchasing individual bubble gum balls...there's no reason to use the 5 denom or less, is there? I mean, don't most purhcases range (in USD value) around the 10+ dollar mark? And one part of the rumor article even stated them having a note with the denom of 2! Sorry, I just see a RV all over that break down...provided the denom rumor is correct and NOT at all a rumor. Hugest piece of info I've seen in two years.

"in fact the 5th poorest in the world" Put the “BREAKING IT DOWN” topic and this “$50,000 DOLLAR BAG OF GROCERIES” topic together and consider the logic in both - NOT the emotion, the delusion created by the gurus and pumpers or the greed with which we’ve been viewing this adventure for many years now." Read more: http://dinarvets.com.../#ixzz1pg8wg2Kl My logic tells me that the CBI has education as part of its plan of 3 phases. We seem to be in phase 2 by all counts here on DV. Education does not have to say the currency will RV; however, as part of the education process, I cannot help but feel 100% certain that citizens are being told the dinar will become much stronger and soon reflect its true value. What that value is (not neccessarily the when) seems to the the ENTIRE POINT of RV speculation and I, for one, think Iraq's currency is not valued properly at its current exchage. Again...every citizen is being educated and this process will be pointing out the future potential of the dinar's strength. In regards to the poverty...I think you might want to rethink that...or at least help me understand where you got that Iraq is the 5th poorest in the world (I did NOT intend for that to sound snippy, Legolas). The only legit poverty analysis I have seen indicates that, yes, there are certainly very poor people in Iraq; however, only 1/3rd of Iraqi citizens live in poverty. Out of 32million...nearly 10 million is a HUGE portion to be sure. In the U.S. population of nearly 312million...39.8 million are said to live in relative poverty. I think it also wise to consider what these demographics consider poor. Even when my family was demographically poor, our quality of life was actually BETTER BY FAR than most the middle class friends we had outside of medical treatment. Bologna is a poor man's lamb chop. With that in mind, citizens who are not poor...and especially those who are...will be listening carefully to education announcements about their currency. When the CBI makes statements that they plan to make the dinar a very strong currency, I can promise you...especially the poor will listen. I have been poor...I KNOW the implications of the logical AND the emotional in terms of what a poor citizen might think about the money they just spent on those groceries. My common sense also tells me that I would have bought those groceries knowing that I had been told the same currency I used to buy them would soon be much stronger. My common sense also tells me that I would be eternally grateful if even ONE SMALL 10k note became stronger while still in my possession. I just dont think that rioting is something that citizens who are poor would do. I do not think Iraqi citizens who are poor would tell the shop owner to repay them for their groceries. I have been poor...you have to understand that does not imply ignorant. That said...even the poorest will have (as the poor in the U.S. often do) a meager nest egg. Those who literally live hand to mouth are probobly far smaller in number inside of that 1/3rd of the poor. Also, I feel certain with the clerics behind them...the poor will be getting (like Kuwaiti citizens) a slice of the pie at some point. Sorry Legolas...I just don't see a good portion of your argument as probable. I predict that most of the poorest will find a nearly worthless 10k dinar as a "nest egg" and far fewer of them with NO dinar on hand. Even less do I see citizens rioting because they purchases groceries minutes before the announcement and weeks after the education. Thanks for the thread...was an interesting read but I'm taking a more optimistic view, myself.