Tlar - The King Of 'Pick And Choose' Admonishes Members That They Can't 'Pick And Choose' !

[DinarThug]

CNN. Broadcasting An Insanely And Obnoxiously Wicked Long Chat !

 

If U Want To Just Skim The Highlights I'd Recommend Reading RockStar !

 

He Throws Tlar Under The Bus On More Than 1 Post !

 

Also About 1/3rd Of The Way Down There's A Post By Frank (Not Guru Frank26)

 

It's A Long Post But The 1st Half Involves An Old Rumor About A Retired State Dept Economist

 

The 2nd Half Digresses Into Tedious Math Examples Which U May Want To Skip ! 

 

 

 - CNN

 

 

 

 

 

Tlar & CC Members Discussion On Budget / Rate / Stability & More 

Rockstar:   XXXX,  how much do you want to bet that when we see the budget that there still will be no RV?? I bet there is zero chance the RV is in the budget! Guru Lojak is gone and as you can see Tlar is back to analyzing and research and learned his lesson, they were questioned heavily about their Intel that was never correct and decided to disappear instead of man up per say!

 So no the one liners will not fly unless you are ready to back them up IMO. No one knows the date or rate on any forum period!!! The CBI will not and cannot RV this currency without the GOI being on board and that is WHY we have not seen the RV yet not because of the budget that every guru out their calls for every year sorry to be the bearer of bad news! 

Yes we do have some major banking and investment laws to be completed etc, and yes when the time is right most of these will be completed very quickly or in the basket as discussed. Until that time is right we All wait patiently IMO.
~~~

 

Mally:   They haven't really been pushing it and pushing it. It only seems that way to people who follow the gurus or people who use the articles as word banks to construe whatever they want and then claim its "in ink". They are going through the budget process at record speed.

 I admit I was disappointed in dec and thought there was maybe some chance they were going to be able to break from constitutional procedures for the rv but that was unrealistic.

All the articles in dec about passing the budget that month were in regards to the council of ministers passing it, which they did. Then they have to by law allow time between each reading which is when the finance committee makes adjustments.

The second reading was stretched a few days but still really good by there past standards. Now the vote day is set for next Tuesday and may get pushed but by the way they are going I'd be surprised if it's pushed much. If it was just up to the cbi and everything was just fine and dandy on their end January 1 would of been the date wouldn't it?

Rissas Dad:   XXXX ..." Just an example... why the hell have we not seen the budget yet???? Why do they keep pushing it and pushing it?"

I believe its because they are following procedure.  Articles have said this over and over.  Its read and commented on and sent back to committee to hash out revisions.  Its read again and it repeats. 

The time between readings is due to the committe's work.  Its a process and has been spelled out.  Its not becuase it just hasnt "shown" due to the rate not showing yet.  Thats just my opinion but its backed up by articles.

Mike:   There's really no surprise in the debate surrounding the budget, heck, Iraq went a whole year without one because of discord and sectarianism.  Why should anyone be surprised that it's taking the whole month of January to get this deal done? 

I agree, Rockstar, there won't be a rate in the budget, that's not the hold up.  We've seen multiple articles where they express the budget in both dollars and dinars, and it's always at the 1166 rate.

 Iraq still needs security and stablity.  Will they hold the budget until ISIL is out of Mosul and the laws are changed to protect investors?  I just don't think they can wait that long.  In the end, this is all acedemic, we'll know the answer to this question in a few weeks, at most.

 I have no doubts though, this exact same topic will come up again next year when the budget is being worked on, it's been the same for years now.

KJWayne:   I have no doubts though, this exact same topic will come up again next year when the budget is being worked on, it's been the same for years now.

I completely agree with that Mike. That has happened every year that I have been in this ****!

The budget can be amended quick after an rv or any kind of rate adjustment.

 IMO ,the government,Abadi< wants more of the corrouption gone before the CBI says "lets do it". It will take the CBI and GOVERNMENT together to know when to flip that switch or push the pretty button.

We, here in the US, will get up one morning and notice that the rate on CBI has changed. That is all the warning we will get. No one will be right or first because IT will have already happened! 

 I like this SITE. Yes ,I've been to many sites in the last five years and I call THIS SITE my HOME! Thank You C-Chatter Owners for letting me be a member.

Mike:   Sager, will you help me with the rate in the budget deal?  I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm just trying to understand what you're saying.

 You mentioned that the budget needs a rate to be funded.  All of the articles I've read have spoken to how difficult the budget has been to compose because they've had to adjust the budget based on 3.4 mbpd at $60 per barrel. 

Additional articles have stated they would borrow money from the WB and IMF to make up the shortfall.  Also, they've spoke about austerity measures like removing gas and other subsidies and enacting a forced savings program for government employess, all to get to a budget that is based on revenue from oil sales. 

All of these things are being done so that Iraq can have a budget that's based on projected incomes from oil sales.

 You say they need a rate to fund the budget, I thought the budget was based on the revenue from oil sales.  Will Iraq have enough money from oil revenue to rebuild the infrastructure and other things?

 Probably not.  But, from everything I can tell, they're basing their budget on the 1166 rate and what estimated revenue will be from the sale of oil, which makes up 96% of Iraq's revenue.  Why would Iraq need a higher rate to fund the budget?  Thanks in advance for your help!

Schiz:   Don't get me started on this one LOL! The rv doesn't make Iraq richer within iraq because they give it a higher value. not gunna rant, just stating the facts of this event

And agree Mike, the budget won't be passed until isil are under control imo because the bydget is based on economic reform and they can't exactly do that while fighting a war.....imo and i hope i'm wrong, the budget can will just continue to get kicked down the road until such a time the stability is enough to impliment it.

But yes, the rv doesn't create money out of nothing, it only adds value to what they have, they will have more purchasing power outside of iraq but inside of iraq everything will change with the new rate. Everything

Rockstar:  Absolutely agree with you Mike and Schiz on this issue! The budget does not need a rate to fund it Sager, the budget is funded by their current revenues of oil sales, gas sales etc. raising the value of the dinar does absolutely zero to paying their bills! However, my ears are open to hear why you think an RV will be able to create more money out of the air?

The only way to explain it simply is, inside of Iraq a dinar will be a dinar...outside of iraq it will be whatever that country deems the exchange rate to be, so in the us for example a dinar will be $2.66.............in the uk summin different, in spain summin different and so on and so forth. If all Iraqs debts are external they are laughing

If they owe the kurds 1billion dinar, they will owe them 1 billion dinar after the rate change. Nothing changes inside of iraq, well that a lie, cos everything changes,

everything that has a price will be adjusted to match the new value...wages...internal debt....food items...gas....ciggies....sweets.. .taxes... electricity ...water....well you get my point lol

Basically iraq will have exactly the same amount of money as they have now. it will just be of higher value and have a ton more purchasing power outside of iraq.

Schiz:    Now, if they have the cash reserves in a bank outside of iraq, they will get richer in a sense but only if they spend that money outside of iraq. if they transferred it to an iraqi bank they would then have exactly the same amount as they had before.

It's hard to grasp but the exchange rate does not come into place within iraq.

It's like me going to the bank and asking what the exchange rate of the pound is, them telling me and me goin ok i can only afford to take 50 out cos the exchange rate is horrible............a pound is a bloody pound in england. a dollar is a dollar in the us. a dinar is a dinar in iraq.

High-Five:   Imports will be less expensive because their dinar will buy more.  They will need a lot of imported goods to build their private sector

Mally:  Imports will be less expensive because their dinar will buy more.  They will need a lot of imported goods to build their private sector

Mike:  Ditto, Mally, you can't have a digital lop. 80% of Iraqi's don't use a bank outside of currency exchange. The first lesson the citizens will learn is that it's better to hold onto your money than deposit it in a bank.

Mally:   It's more then just poor Iraqis with an eye on this. Did you hear the outrage from investors on the Swiss simply because they made a rule that their currency would not exceed 1.2 euros and then one day said never mind.

 Any money is a contract with that country, to arbitrarily say we will honor this contract (our paper money) but not not that one (our electronic money) would be suicide, and illegal I believe.

 I'm with you that there may be a law, will need to be a law, that spells out debt in usd equivalence but a different exchange rate in country vs out or in bank vs paper can't happen. All of course in my opinion. Keep the opinions coming though, thanks blue.

Mike:    I'm guessing. But, Iraq is going to have to encourage Iraqi's to engage the banks and begin to invest and save their money. Saddam stole their money 20 years ago, they don't trust Iraqi banks. This would only make it worse

Quote:  mally at January 16, 2015 at 9:00 PM  You can't treat a class of currency different paper or electronic. If they tried to be the first country to do something like that it would kill any international business interest, Iraq would become an economic wasteland. jmo but I like hearing the different theories

Tlar:   Mally,  They can and IMO they will.  This is an issue I have argued over and over for years now.  Its an acedemic argument that really does not affect but very few of us but interesting to think about.

 Using the dollar as the basis (pairing) for everything will allow Iraq to quickly configure values.  Using Blues example of a three zero RV or 86 cents, the stock market will have to be adjusted as each clients stock account will be reduced by by the same three zeros. 

In other words an account with 50,000 shares today becomes an account worth 50 shares on d-day.  We know that the ISX was/is worried because folks who have stock accounts may be confused at first thinking a mistake has been made.  We have seen articles of their concern. 

No mistake will have been made.  The accounts value will remain the same before and after the change even while the number of shares will have been reduced.  Now lets look at a man with bank account be it savings or checking who also has a loan at the same bank. 

Assuming all these are in dinars, he will not lose any value these accounts will just be stated at the new rate.  The reason all electronic accounts have to be restated at the new rate is you can't have a loan of 1,000,000 dinars restated as 1000 dinars equal to $1000 USD while his savings account with 50,000 dinars worth today about 50 dollars, benefit and is restated now as 50,000 dollars in value. 

The banking institutions could not handle this as this kind of a change IMO, has to universally affect both sides of the balance statement at the same time. 

Logically both sides of the balance statement have to be in sync in my opinion. 

EVERYTHING IN IRAQ WILL BE AFFECTED BY THIS RATE CHANGE INCLUDING THE CASH, WHICH MEANS AS THE VALUE OF THE CASH INCREASES 1000 TIMES EVERYTHING else (whether in Iraq or not in Iraq) WILL BE DECREASED 1000 TIMES. 

Following this logic, IMO the only people to benefit by this will be the people holding any cash just as you and I are.  This is a hard argument for some to understand because guys like Adam early on had his followers set up accounts in Iraq with dinars.

 It is my belief they will not benefit from the change in value if their dinars are sitting in an account at a bank.  They won't lose money as value will remain constant before and after. 

The CBI has given us a heads up on the change in the currency value when they suggested to banks to take their time when addressing the population as they come into the bank to change out the big notes left in circulation. 

The CBI told the banks to set up checking and savings accounts and give them walk around money.  This tells us that the currency should have significantly higher value. 

What they have not dealt with in articles is bank accounts and IMO for good reason.  It would kill the system if the people thought there was a difference in the way an electronic dinar would be handled.

 They would run the banks at the first inkling that the RV was imminent as they did in January 2014 converting all dinars to cash.  It truly makes no difference whether anyone believes me or not . 

Logically IMO this has to be the only way for this to work.  But I am always interested in hearing any argument or view different than this.  tlar   

Mally:  Really appreciate your perspective tlar. I don't agree with it though. The law of indebtedness is complete dinar land speculation as far as what it is or what it can be. im no international finance wiz but from reading dinar blogs and doing some research for five years now I believe there's certain things they can and can't do. 

I believe it would be illegal according to the imf to perform an electronic revenue neutral redenomination while honoring a different value for paper currency. 

Debt in the form of loans or ownership in the form of stocks may be another story but I don't think there's ambiguous wiggle room to be creative like that with currency. Maybe since the dinar is still not a true currency anything is possible but I highly doubt that scenario. Would love to find out I'm wrong tomorrow lol

mekim6:   I'm with tlar on this one

Aloha Alex:   Politicians and Banksters don't care about the ciitizens. Look what happened in Cyprus. A homeless person in America treats his dog better than Iraqis treat each other.

Rockstar:             Sorry but they will NOT treat the dinar that is deposited any different than the dinar that an Iraqi holds in his hand at the time of an RV!!! That is an incorrect conclusion and absolutely not right. 

That would also go against the reasoning done here recently on the long discussion of what constitutes "circulated currency vs non circulated currency" where Iraq is only responsible for counting the circulated currency In Country when determining value and not what we hold outside of Iraq! Circulated currency includes everything held inside an Iraqi bank. 

They will not give two values in country just because TLar says they will sorry not going to happen! I hope everyone can see how wrong that conclusion actually is?? Seriously two values in country for a one time monetary change really...lol

mekim6:   Time will tell Rockstar. You talk in absolutes when in fact they can do pretty much what they want. Hopefully we will know soon. Not going to effect me as I don't hold any IQD in an Iraqi bank.

Schiz:  Its gunna suck for the Iraqis that's for sure. Me and tlar seem to be of the same thinking on this one. No rv for these folks.

 Only for folks holding dinar outside of Iraq where an exchange rate comes into play. 

Feel bad for the Iraqis but they ain't gunna just make the population millionaires and certainly not in a country like Iraq...think about it. Plus what is the job of government? Yeh to keep its people poor and dependant on it.

I haven't looked into the law of indebtness but off the top of my head I would say it is to protect the value of a debt. Especially a debt owed to Iraq. 

It will cone with the rate imo and will let people know that because they owed one million dinar before that they still owe that and not the six trillion they had to pay before because of the crappy exchange rate.

Frank:  This is an old article (Sept. - 2012) that is classified as Rumor.  It is related to a Retired State Dept. Economist that supposedly worked on the original plan to install a new monetary system for Iraq.  

The discussion regarding "circulated currency vs non circulated currency" prompted me to post this article, although many of you have probably already seen it.    

  In our 40+ year career as a Retirement Consultant we have been blessed to meet some very talented professionals. One of them is a retired State Dept. economist who introduced us to the IQD investment in 2005. He had worked on the original plan to install a new monetary system for Iraq after the 2003 invasion.

 He had originally indicated that the plan was for the IQD to achieve financial parity with the USD over a 7-10 year period from the introduction of the new system.

 At that time the USDs use would be completely discontinued and it would be replaced by the IQD for in-country use and international exchange. The variable factor in the timetable would be the political environment.

 

 I visited with him recently and got an update on several issues:

 1. He indicated the original time table was proceeding on a fast track due to the financial management skills exhibited by the CBI and the Finance Ministry in

a. controlling the rate of inflation,

b. controlling the value of the IQD in a declining economic environment and

c. implementing a digital banking system both internally and externally, but the variable was still the political environment.

 Like most economist he doesn't talk in absolutes (i.e. rate/date) but in probabilities. His knowledge base is pretty current since he is still part of a subsection of the original group that Iraq, State Department and IMF financial people bounce things off of.

 2. We raised the issue of the large number of IQD reported as being in circulation (current estimates are at 25 Trillion). He indicated this was mostly made up of (1) in country physical currency,

(2) the foreign currency reserves of the central banks around the world which are electronic,

 (3) currency that had been printed but not released (i.e. small denomination bills) and (4) privately held physical currency sold to increase the foreign currency reserves.

 The export oil revenues are still under the control of the UN supervised DFI, and Iraq only gets roughly 30% of the fair market value of the oil they are selling, which is to be used only for budgetary expenditures.

 Since Shabbi, the head of the CBI, knew he couldnt get anymore cash flow out of the controlled revenue system the IMF/UN had him under, he opened a currency sales window at the daily auctions to tap into the wallets of the worlds speculators. Worked pretty good, since hes built his foreign currency reserves to over $50 billion USD.

 3. We then moved to the removal of big bills (the ones with the 3 zeros on them) and he said that this activity was always built into the plan. The activity was to begin as soon as Iraq had implemented a modern digital financial system (i.e. bank branches, credit/debit cards, ATMs, direct wire transfers etc.).

 The removal of the large bills in-country would be the reverse of the process that was used to remove the pre-2003 currency with Saddams picture on it.

 The example was a 25,000 IQD=$25USD/pre-rv note would be brought into the bank and exchanged for a 25 IQD note=$25 USD post/rv. The 25,000 IQD note would then be destroyed removing it from the currency in circulation account.

 I told him a lot of people would call that a LOP and he laughed, saying they are partially right, because 25,000 IQD was being lopped from the currency in circulation account, but the only reason for this process was to improve money handling ability at all organization levels, and reduce the actual physical currency in use in all areas of the Iraq economy.

 Interestingly enough, he said this activity could happen in-country without an approved RV rate being released to the International financial system. I asked how much physical IQD did he estimated was in circulation in-country,

and he said probably less than had been originally introduced in 2003 which was about $4.5 billion USD worth at an exchange rate of 2000 IQD = $1 USD, because there has been a continuous process of not replacing the larger bills as they wore out. In fact this has resulted in currency shortages in some areas.

 4. The next obvious question was how would the removal of the large bills with the three zeros work outside of Iraq, because of the number of world speculators holding IQD.

 He indicated, the amount of IQD held by speculators was relatively minor (less than 10%) compared to the IQD held as foreign currency reserve by the central banks of a number of major countries (US, China, England & France were the largest) with major financial interest in Iraq.

He didnt have an exact estimate of speculator holdings but ventured an educated guess of 750,000 individuals worldwide with the majority in the US. Estimated value of their holdings $1.5 Trillion – $1.7 trillion IQD.

 5. Before discussing the planned process of how currency exchange would take plan after the IQD was released as an international tradable currency, he asked if I remembered my economics 101 and what the real purpose of currency is?

Yes teacher I replied, its a medium of exchange that facilitates the orderly distribution of goods and services among individuals, companies, countrys etc.

 The often used example, is the use of currency allows an automobile dealer to exchange a new mustang GT (composed of many diverse parts each with its own individual market value) for the cash down payment + bank financing check of a proud new owner, and each has received equal market value at the moment of exchange.

 This is an important concept because the value of a particular currency may be defined by the value of what the currency can be exchanged for, instead of the usual underlying economic indicators.

 The complete discussion was rather lengthy so heres the executive summary of how the exchange should work with IQD owned by a US speculator:

  1. IQD is released internationally with an exchange rate of $1 USD = 1 IQD

 2. IQD is exchanged by Mr. & Mrs. X at Bank Y. Their exchange value is credited to their designated financial account, Bank Y forwards the IQD currency to the Federal Reserve and Bank Ys account is credited at the bank private exchange rate. Yes, the banks will have a private rate and then they will add their profit spread to come up with their public rate.

 By law this bank spread could be as high as 8%, but it will be a competitive marketplace and the banks know investors will shop around. There is a possibility that there might even be a three rate structure (i.e. Treasury Rate – Bank Private Rate – Bank Public Rate) imposed, but he had no input on that subject.

 3. The Federal Reserve adds the value of the exchanged IQD to their foreign currency reserve accounts and destroys the actual physical currency under agreement with the CBI, which serves to reduce the total IQD physical currency in circulation.

 This build up of the foreign currency reserve accounts serves to strengthen the USD in the marketplace, because heretofore the US has never held significant foreign currency reserves, because there wasnt any country whose currency was perceived as being equal to or stronger than the USD.

 The IQD with its commodity (oil+others) base, potential for agriculture growth and aggressive private development growth, has the capability to become the most valuable currency in the world in the 10 years after its revaluation and approval as an internationally recognized currency.

 Other countries have lots of oil, but they cant feed themselves, they operate under a monarchy or religious tribunal and they have no private development system in place.

 4. Mr. & Mrs. X tithe to their church, local charity etc. which stimulates activity in that sector. They pay off their debts, making currency available for re-lending by their creditors.

They buy a new house and car which stimulates their local economy and set up a conservative investment portfolio which adds capital to the investment markets. They also pay their estimated taxes which increases the cash flow to the US Treasury.

 5. The Federal Reserve under a controlled redemption plan supervised by the IMF, will use its foreign currency reserve IQD account to buy oil for the national strategic reserve, DOD reserves, other country reserves as part of international support agreements or resell it to private oil companies etc.

 This gives the Federal Reserve a powerful market force capability to control the supply/price of imported oil which has far-reaching economic and national security implications.

 The economics of this scenario look like this, using the exchange of a 10,000 IQD Note with a two-tier 2% bank exchange spread as an example:

 1. Mr. & Mrs. X get $9,800 credited to their non-interest bearing checking account.

 2. Bank Y gets a $10,000 credit to its Federal Reserve account, and by adding the $200 profit to their capital account, allows them to increase their lending cap by $2,000 under the 10% fractional banking model.

 3. The Treasury gets $3,500 in estimated taxes in the quarter after the exchange, because Mr. & Mrs. X are now in the rich category and get to enjoy the 35% tax bracket. This lowers the net cost of the IQD exchange to the US financial system to $6,500 USD (i.e. $10,000 out – $3,500 in).

 4. The Feds designated agent, at some point, orders $10,000 worth of oil from Iraq. Payment will consist of a 10,000 transfer from the Feds foreign currency reserve IQD account to the IRAQ Oil payment account at the CBI.

 Even though the world spot price of oil is defined in terms of USD, the actual transaction may take place in any internationally recognized currency agreed to by the parties. For example, Iran only accepts Yen from Japan for their oil orders, because they dont want USD in their foreign currency reserves.

 5. The $10,000 order is filled with 200 barrels of oil based on the spot price on the date of the sale (for this example we used a $50 USD spot price). What does it cost Iraq to produce the oil to fill this order? Well they have negotiated productions agreements for $1.50 USD/barrel.

 From that price $.50 USD goes to the national Iraqi oil company who is the partner in the field the oil came from. Out of the remaining $1.00 the other oil field partners have to pay the Iraq government a profit tax of $.35 USD (35%). The net cost to Iraq to produce a barrel of oil used in this scenario is $.65 USD. (i.e. $1.50 – .50 – .35)

 6. The transaction is completed with the Federal Reserve exchanging foreign reserve credits which are equal to 10,000 IQD (which had a net acquisition cost of $6,500 USD) for 200 barrels of oil (which has a net cost to produce of $130 USD.

 Simply put, it cost Iraq $130 USD from their foreign currency reserve accounts to redeem the value of 10,000 IQD, which goes into their operating accounts. At the same time the US got $10,000 worth of oil for a net cost of $6,500. Thats how it was originally planned for Iraq to RV at 1 IQD = 1 USD, with the variable being the political element (i.e. UN Sanctions, GOI actions, IMF actions, World Bank actions etc.)

Mike:  Here's the thing, a rising tide floats all boats, not a select few.  This one event would single handedly destroy any chance of success for Iraqi banks, the people simply wouldn't trust them again. 

Roughly 20% of Iraqi's use the banking system in Iraq, assumably, mostly businessmen and what small group of investors there are in the country.  Your premise will specifically target the exact same people that you will need to rebuild the country.  I know, my statement is a bit melodramatic, but follow me on this.

 In your scenario, is it only Iraqi banks that will lop the accounts, or is it all banks, including the international ones?  I could see the Iraqi banks trying to lop their clients accounts, but how far is the reach of the CBI?  Can they have Citibank or HSBC lop their client accounts? Nope. 

The workaround on this is super easy.  If I have dinars in the TBI, lets say 20 million, and I caught wind that my dinars are lopped if I try to pull cash, I would simply close my account and open another with a Jordanian bank.  How would Iraq stop me from doing that?  They can't. 

So, I used to have 20 million dinars in a bank in Iraq that is/was worth $20,000 but as soon as I transfer it to Jordan my 20 million dinars is worth what?  $20 million dollars at a rate of 1-1. 

So, not only did Iraq not accomplish it's goal, it also lost an account that's worth $20 million and no hope of them ever returning to the homelands system.

 It would be the first time in the history of banking that currency stored in a bank has a different value than the currency you hold in your hand.  It would never happen, Rockstar is right. 

Of course nothing is certain, but you can't have different values for a currency.  A great example is what happened with the Swiss franc. 

Did the currency in the bank accounts remain pegged at the capped rate of 1.2.  Of course not, it rose the same 30% and settled at 15% in growth, and that's for the currency they held in their hands as well as the currency in their accounts.

 Iraqi's aren't stupid.  If they catch wind that their money is worth more outside the country, there will be a massive capital flight in Iraq, Turkey, Jordan, Kuwait and others will reap the benefits of the change in value while Iraq dies on the vine. 

You just can't change the value in the country and have it increase outside the country, there's no monetary policy that has ever existed for that to work.  I do agree that this is academic, we'll know when we know.

rDiddy:                 Frank - thank you so much for the detailed explanation of the plan! Did your friend offer an opinion on the political/security climate in Iraq? Does he think the stability is there yet? - mrs d

Mike:  Frank (or anyone) is there a link with that article?  I can remember that little diddy floating around before 2012, and I have serious reservations about its validity. 

I'd like to know who put this article out and who this economist is.  There are so many holes in that story, but the one that stands out the biggest is this:

 From that price $.50 USD goes to the national Iraqi oil company who is the partner in the field the oil came from. Out of the remaining $1.00 the other oil field partners have to pay the Iraq government a profit tax of $.35 USD (35%).

 The net cost to Iraq to produce a barrel of oil used in this scenario is $.65 USD. (i.e. $1.50 – .50 – .35)    Thanks in advance for your help!

Frank:  Mike -  It can  probably be googled  -  I found it as a post on Dinar Vets, back in 2012.   I have no idea who wrote it and I also have serious reservations about its validity

Phillyman:   Mike,  The only thing I can think of to add to all the arguments made is the last time this was being discussed and Tlar brought up the run on banks I was never able to find one article supporting that. 

You would think there would be one.  The best I could find was the Kurds not having funds in their banks because Baghdad was not sending them.  One thing for sure is Tlar might want to put on some flak jackets because now that this has hit Dinar Recaps it will create some heated discussion.

 I had sent Breitling an email about this last time it came up and let me just say to be nice that he in no way agreed with Tlar.  Praying this is all laid to rest soon.

Mike:   Thanks, Frank, I appreciate it.  It's my belief that this is more of the infamous guru lore and fiction.  I wasn't trying to pick a fight, I just thought you might have a link and I was interested to see where it came from.

 Completely agree with your post, Phillyman.  There was never a run on the banks, Iraq has been short of serviceable dinar for years now, they've addressed that by printing new 10K notes, as to the other, you just can't treat dinar in an account different than the dinar you hold in your hand, it would completely undermine the banking system in Iraq. 

Yes, it would be a one time event, but try and convince those that got burned that it wouldn't happen again.  You wouldn't be able to, I know I wouldn't buy it.  No one would trust a bank in Iraq again.

KJWayne:   Who's right? Who's wrong? Who cares?  I still hold dinar notes and I'm still broke, Iraq WILL become a better country with a better rate for their dinar.

How they do that does not matter at this point in time. THEY will do it their way. I want MY dinar,in hand , to be worth more than a dollar at a point in the near future. Enjoy the day and the RIGHT that you have to discuss this stuff!  

DreamWeaver:   In country, the Iraq RV will be all about  increased purchasing power because in country no exchange rate ever really applies.  

For example, if the dinar RVs on Tuesday at 1-to-1, a person can't take a 25,000 dinar note (worth $25 USD on Monday) to the bank on Tuesday and get anything other than 25,000 dinars in different denoms or deposited into a new account.  

If, however, they were allowed to exchange that 25,000 dinar note on Tuesday--post RV--for US dollars, then they would get 25,000 dollars.  But why would they exchange it--even if they could? 

 They wouldn't--because as of Tuesday 25,000 dinars and 25,000 dollars would have identical purchasing power inside Iraq, though Article VIII would eliminate dual currency--USD.  

Stock market, electronic accounts, are subject to being adusted from say, 1,000 shares to 1 because stock represents an ownership share in a company that MUST be reflected accurately insofar as those shares are a certain fractional value on company balance sheet.  

For example, if 1 billion shares were issued, with a USD value of $1 million dollars, then you couldn't have people, post RV, owning 1,000 times that amount as that would be 1,000 times number of shares ever issued.  Unfeasible.  

So, stock shares would be handled as a contract, subject to Law of Indebtedness--as will any paper or electronic contractual accounts.  Just because it is cited as example, doesn't mean this example applies to electronic bank accounts.  

Bank accounts represent monies owned by someone as though they were stuffed in a mattress.  There is no "indebtedness" in play.  Monies are put in the bank for safe keeping.  LOL--almost choked on that comment, as that fiduciary relationship was shattered in Cyprus and may possibly occur in USA in the future.

So, right now, until further information can be provided, I'd have to come down on the side of bank accounts remaining the same.  Remember, when the person opened the account, they presented a 25,000 dinar note.  They own 25,000 dinars--whether in a bank, their hand, or a mattress.  

Though no adjustment to checking or savings accounts will need to be made, the bank will need to adjust their balance sheet and contracts according to the Law of Indebtedness because their ledger assets and liabilities must balance. 

I'm the first to admit I'm no bomar brain when it comes to economics, but this is what makes most sense to me. 

I'd be extremely curious--though how would we ever find this out--to know how bank accounts in Kuwait reflected the RI (increased value) and those in Turkey reflected the LOP (decreased value).  I imagine Kuwait remained the same and Turkey's were decreased.  

Interesting debate, but without reading particulars of Law of Indebtedness, I don't see how consensus on this subject would be reached.  Especially since both sides are valid.  

Best thoughts all, interesting and complex subject.  Fingers crossed for laws passing next week.  Focused on what they DO and it appears they are still doing a lot.  ~ DW.   

Tlar:    Rockstar, by your reasoning all dinar deposited with the CBI by independent banks who are registered to sell USD will also increase in value by 1000 making every independent bank in Iraq a major windfall. 

 In fact any moneys held by any entity will increase 1000 times under your thought process be it a private company, a government institution or an individual.  That would really make it interesting wouldn't it.  My whole premise is based on you can not pick and choose.  

EVERYTHING MUST GO DOWN BY 3 ZEROS TO HAVE PARITY WITH THE CURRENCY GOING UP 3 ZEROS.  YOU CANNOT PICK AND CHOOSE. 

You are in good company though.  I have debated this point with many dinarians and more than just a few feel as you do. It is just a debate because unless we have money in the ISX stock market or you have a bank account in Iraq, we will not be affected by this.  

I have a question for you.  Do you believe the stock market will be adjusted? In other words a 50,000 shares becomes 50 shares with the deletion of the zero's (86 cents) plan.  tlar

Mike:    Good stuff, DW.  The banks aren't the ones who tell you the value of your currency, the markets and the CBI do that.  Sure, the CBI can change the value, but the banks can't adjust the numbers in your account, only the value will change. 

So, if you have 25K in the banks, the deposit amount will stay the same, 25K, only the value changes.  For me, I look at exactly what you brought up:

I'd be extremely curious--though how would we ever find this out--to know how bank accounts in Kuwait reflected the RI (increased value) and those in Turkey reflected the LOP (decreased value). I imagine Kuwait remained the same and Turkey's were decreased.

Just like the Swiss, the number of notes in the accounts never changed, the same for Turkey and for Kuwait.  All that changed is the value of the notes in your account. 

" We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid "  Benjamin Franklin

Mike:    For me, there's a huge difference between stocks and currency.  Stocks are issued by a company, based on earning potential with a cash value attached, which can fluctuate with the performance of the company.  Currency, on the other hand, has value established by a central bank and the markets.  

The two are completely different, they're nothing like each other.  You can't take a stock certificate to the store and buy a falafal, you need cash.  You would need to convert your stock to cash and then get to the store to get your lunch.  

Stock splits happen all the time, I've owned Microsoft stock for years and I can't count the number of times it's split.  The value of the stock never changed, just the shares.  I can see Iraq doing something very similiar.

Mally:    Ya I agree, its apples and oranges.  Its all speculaton but if they can pass a law saying your debt is still owed in usd equivalence Id imagine stocks could easily adjust the same way.  To me a stock is a percentage ownership in a company so If I own 10k stock in a company and that represents 5% of the companies worth Id still own 5% of the company post rv but it might be reflected in fewer shares.  

DreamWeaver:   When I see a title for a law--such as Law of  Indebtedness--what immediately comes to mind is that Iraq feels the necessity to put a law on the books that addresses how "indebtedness" will be handled when dinar RVs--we loaned you x and you owe us y.  

Seeing this type of law is great for us, as it means an RV is coming--and great for Iraq as it means substantially increased purchasing power as well as Iraqi people being protected by closing up any type of contractual loopholes created by RV. 

Also, why wouldn't or shouldn't the banks IN IRAQ benefit, through increased value, from account holders?  Imagine all they'd have to do is adjust their assets to reflect the change in value--probably also addressed in Law of Indebtedness.  This will be a huge purchasing power boost for Iraq economy.  

Can't imagine CBI or GOI would intend asset accounts to LOP (not take advantage of purchasing power).  Isn't that counterproductive to what they are doing by exponentially  increasing purchasing power of the dinar 1,000 times?  

Basically, citizens and businesses in Iraq--with assets in bank accounts--would be penalized and barred from that leap in value, which, in turn would only hurt Iraq and her citizens. 

Seems to me if Iraq wants to get a tremendous economic leg up on the rest of the area and the world, what better way than to have those that will contribute to its growth (businesses and citizens) profit handsomely through increased purchasing power--as it would create economic boom overnight.  

Isn't that the entire purpose?  Why would CBI / GOI allow RV to only benefit those holding paper dinar--as those people aren't the ones, most likely, that would contribute the MOST back into Iraq economy.  How would a LOP, basically, of all electronic asset accounts benefit business, economy, Iraq?  It wouldn't. 

 This type of move would do absolutely nothing to drastically change economic landscape of Iraq (companies, factories, etc).

 Also, why would CBI go on and on--in many articles--about their intent to bring power (purchasing power, value) back to the dinar to only have it apply to politicians or citizens or businesses hoarding paper dinar?  Just doesn't make sense and this is where logic skids off the runway for me. 

 BUT, hey, Iraq and the world do plenty of illogical things.  Will just have to see how this one plays out.  That's my 2cents for what it's worth. 

Mike:    KJ's right, it's not about who's right or wrong, it's about the process.  For me, this discussion leads to the big question.....how can Iraq RV their currency at 1-1 with 4 trillion notes in circulation?  Tlar's theory about not raising the value of dinar held in bank accounts would help that become a reality, but outside of it, how can Iraq, with $65 billion in reserves cover an RV of up to $4 trillion in circulation? 

 I realize there are different ways to provide value for a currency, stuff like how much gold they have and oil in the ground, but can a country who puts $125 billion dollars a year into the global economy cover that much currency in circulation?  

The US has roughly the same amount in circulation and I would wager our economy is a smidge bigger than Iraq's, as well as we have double the cash reserves and we hold the largest gold reserves in the world at 8,100 tons.  How can Iraq RV at 1-1 with their current revenues and reserves? 

 Lastly, can someone find the "Law of Indebtedness" anywhere?  I've read stuff from Brule in her past life that touched on the subject, but I can find no reference or source for the law itself.  This would really help figure out how Iraq would reconcile these exact questions.  Here's the link for what I could find.

 http://alliraqnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=98008:2013-09-09-12-19-49&catid=39:2011-04-08-17-26-45&Itemid=58

 Again, a rising tide floats all boats, you can't treat one any different than the other.  A dinar is a dinar whether in a bank or in your hands, you can't have it any other way.

Tlar:       DWIGHT, excellent counterpoint. My problem in banks is how can any bank in this scenario affect only the debt side of this equation? By the way both you and Mike have come to logical conclusions but I still feel that everything will go down by three zeros to parallel the currency (physical paper) to mirror image this change. You can't pick and choose. 

Property, bonds, stocks, assets, debt, and I believe every electronic account such as bank accounts, loans, living items and living expenses, everything must be changed, to reflect the new rate.

 Again we can't pick and choose. All value will remain the same once adjusted. Salaries and incomes such as retirements, interest both passive and active for government, private and individuals will also be adjusted. Everything. Again you can't pick and choose. Again its makes for an interesting debate. Tlar
~~~

 

DreamWeaver:  Absolutely true.  Never about who is right or wrong.  That's ego identification.  This is about sharing various interpretations of what these articles, etc. mean. 

We are trying to ascertain what may or may not happen.  Much of that is contingent on how we interpret their intention from articles, etc.  Tricky ground when language has many translation issues and articles are recycled or MPs distort facts or truth. 

Also, no point in searching for the answer, either, if you aren't open to concept that your perception may not be accurate.   Just found out yesterday, in speaking with Street, that I'd missed a BIG relevant event in 2012 because I wasn't yet on the board and didn't connect the dots when reading archived forum articles.  Reading articles is absolutely not the same as being on the board as it's difficult--sometimes even impossible--to know inter-relationship between the issues.

Way I look at it, some on the board may or may not be aware of factors that contribute to someone's belief.  Best to just accept possibility there are gaps in your and other people's understanding. 

That way no one is offended, defensive, or hostile.  So, I'm the first to admit my perspective may not be spot on--that's why I say it's my 2cents ... as 98 cents could be missing from the analysis. 

Dinarblowyourhorn:   I just spent some time reading on the Nigerian Central Bank website on the "redenomination" of the currency: interesting, but clearly the DTZ is being presented as a simple redenomination and will absolutely be applicable to bank accounts, salaries, etc.

http://www.cenbank.org/redenomination/newpolicy.asp

Is the redenomination policy a re-valuation  or resort to a fixed exchange rate regime?

No. Redenomination is not the same as revaluation. A revaluation entails an official adjustment of the exchange value of a country’s currency (usually an upward change in value) relative to other currencies by fiat under a fixed exchange rate regime.

CBN will continue to maintain a market determined exchange rate regime. In his August 14, 2007, speech the CBN Governor used N1.25 to US$1 as an illustrative figure. It does not mean that the exchange rate will be fixed at that figure. The exchange rate may appreciate or depreciate depending on market forces.

 How will it work?

 The ‘new Naira’ coins and notes will be different from the existing ones i.e. in design, appearance, security features, etc.

All Naira assets and liabilities (including bank deposits), prices, fees, rents, and contracts (including salaries and wages) will be re-denominated by dropping two zeroes or moving two decimal points to the left.

During the ‘transition period’ prices will be quoted in both the ‘new Naira’ and the ‘Old Naira’ and everyone will choose whether to pay in the new or old Naira.

These five months will be allowed so that everyone will get familiar with the conversion, and it will become self-evident to everyone why he/she would prefer to transact in the ‘new Naira’ rather than the ‘old Naira’.

For example, if a bag of garri sells for N2,000 (old Naira), the price in ‘new Naira’ will automatically be N20. The customer will choose to pay either N2000 in old Naira or N20 in the ‘new Naira’. In the supermarkets and formal markets, prices will be displayed in both ‘old’ and ‘new’ Naira.

 In the informal markets where prices are negotiated, the negotiation could be done in the ‘old Naira’ as usual and converted into the ‘new Naira’ if the customer wishes to pay with the ‘new Naira’.

This will ensure that prices do not rise due to rounding-up. The five months are also needed for everyone (formal and informal sectors) to become fully familiar with the conversion. It will become obvious to everyone that N50,000 of the ‘old Naira’ has the same purchasing power as N500 of the ‘new Naira’.

The question then would be: why carry N50,000 of old Naira when N500 of the new Naira will buy you the same thing?

Consequently, if you have N50,000 in your bank account, it will automatically become N500 in the ‘new Naira’ i.e. if you want to withdraw in the ‘new Naira’ or you can still withdraw N50,000 in ‘old Naira’ during the transition period (August- December 2008).

 Similarly, someone whose monthly salary is N50,000 can choose (during the transition period) whether to withdraw and spend the N50,000 in ‘old Naira’ or N500 in the ‘new Naira’. Both would buy him/her the same value of goods and services.

DreamWeaver:  LOL.  Am I DWIGHT?  Not sure, but didn't see any comments by Dwight--unless I missed them.  Lots of people called me Carl in school as the roll call constantly had my name spelled wrong--all through high school.   

You know, Tlar, it is very interesting debate--the ones where you can see where both sides could be viable usually are IMO.  This is one of those issues.  I've pondered it enough to know I'm wasting brain cells going any deeper at this point as there just isn't enough information available. 

Your opinion is always respected.  Anytime there's a disagreement between my husband and I, I start singing Dave Mason's song lyrics:  "So, let's leave it alone 'cause we can't see eye to eye.  There ain't no good guys.  There ain't no bad guys.  There's just you and me and we just disagree."

Such a bad singer, my husband laughs.  You know, the wonderful thing about opinions is that they can change in an instant; and as long as people aren't attached to them--which I never am--it's no problem to jump on over to a different side, my friend.  See you over there.  ~ DW

Mike:  DBYH, isn't that a lop?  I would agree, if Iraq lop's their currency, it will definitely effect both digital and physical currency.  I'm hoping that Iraq adds value to the dinar, if they were going to lop, wouldn't they have done that already?  

Dinarblowyourhorn:   INteresting that the Nigerian verbiage differentiates between revaluation and redenomination.  We are expecting redenomination and hoping for both. 

They seem to imply that revaluations can only be done with a fixed exchange regime and is a act of "fiat" (which is very encouraging...since we are depending on the power of fiat to simply declare the value in a fixed exchange regime).  If the dinar goes to market based valuation. 

I suppose the fiat declaration of value would need to preceed the redenomination if we are to enjoy a windfall.  If the lop (which in my opinion seems inevitable) preceeds a significant rise in value by fiat, the we are simply going to enjoy the ride up to 3 bucks from a new effective rate of 1 to 1. 

If the fiat declaration occurs i figure it would be followed pretty quickly by the introduction of the dual IQD currencies.  Perhaps they could get away with a .10 revaluation and then switch to a market driven rate and let it rise to a buck while keeping the face value in play for all denoms. 

I think the good thing (possibly) for us is that the lower denominations are (theoretically) already printed and likely  a part of the original currency run of 2003 - which makes it sound much less like a classic LOP scenario. 

Of course, we are back to the age old question as to whether the CBI is being treansparent when the talk about DTZ as being "just like Turkey" did it.  We hope they are not being completely forthcoming, but if they are to be believed, then the LOP style redenomination at some point is a foregone conclusion. 

Tlar:       DW, I am on my phone and auto-correct filled in the blanks. I hate auto-correct but don't know how to disengage it. Lol.. I find it just fun to think about these kinds of things fully realizing we wont have answers until d-day.

By the way, the rush on the banks was reported early January of 2014 and started end of 2013 for those who like to thrown around the term "guru" lore. It was reported in articles.

Historians can you please help by finding articles for those that obviously did not see, any and like to see this statement as more lies. . Thanks, tlar

DreamWeaver:  Laughing, Tlar, as I forget about auto-correct and send out some doosies via text sometimes.  Worse, though, was the time my husband's phone accidentally pocket dialed someone that just happened to be the subject of a very nasty rant by a guy my husband didn't even know in a computer store.  What are the chances of that happening?  Uh, plenty--as I personally believe our phones make these kind of calls ... intentionally.  LOL. 

I do remember seeing a couple of articles regarding bank rush happening late 2013 after article in October, I believe, where loose lips FC guy let it slip regarding dtz / RV in Jan.  But can't dig them out as I have a new computer.  Lost many archived docs. 

Yep ... no matter on which side of an issue any of us find ourselves in trying to figuring this out--we're all on the same side energetically:  RV side. 

Schiz:  Blue, Oh, You write as if you know for sure? how did you find out? I would like to read the article or whatever it was that says the iraqi people will get rich from the rate change....or are you just speculating like me?

...I personally believe they will be asked to come in and exchange their large denoms for the new lower denoms seeing no rv.....but this is just my opinion because it makes sense and governments don't work to make the population rich, a wealthy populatuion is a less controlled population.

I predict the Iraqi people will not benefit one bit after a rate change. But I don't care, I'm notin Iraq and the exchange rate comes in to play when i cash out

There will be two prices on goods if they will co-exist for a time, one in old dinar rate and one in new dinar rate. Until all large denoms are gone or they are invalid.

I personally believe they will co-exist for 6 months.                                                                                                          

Rockstar:   The Iraqi people will at least benefit with much greater purchasing power after the RV! Lastly, I must apologize for my rudeness in posting while tired at 1am in the morning!!!

Anyway all is good and I can see both points of view seriously after talking to another good friend who has been invested since 2005 also. He too seems to think that anything in a bank will keep the same value before and after the RV they will lose nothing but will gain only in purchasing power but an Iraqi that walks in with a 25k note after the RV will also get the RV benefit only if they actually give him dollars in exchange which they most likely won't.

 I also read off to him about "Mike's" go around the system by transferring to a Jordanian bank and he also agreed that would be the way they would do it and benefit from an 1000%+ percent increase just like we will.

Their economy is heavily dollarized and there is only so much dinar left on the streets anyway. So again my apologies as I have been so tired lately with family things going on and I promise to not post in the middle of the night anymore..lol

Unless we can figure out how Iraq would fund a 1-1 rate change with 4 trillion in circulation, your theory holds water, DBYH.   There's no way they can afford it, as far as I can see. 

That being said, if there's much less than that in circulation, then a 1-1 rate could become a reality.  A market correction would dramatically increase the value, even if it was only .10 and then the dinar would grow as investors came in and GDP grew from more than just oil revenues.

I apologize, Tlar, I never meant for my comments to insinuate you were lying, that's not my intention. 

I believe that there were articles related to Kurdistan that indicated they were cash strapped and low on dinar, both because the currency is/was in such bad shape and Maliki had decided to stop paying them the money they were owed from the budget. 

The banks simply ran out of liquidity.  I never saw an article from a FC member saying the dinar was going to increase in value and I didn't see any articles about a run on the banks.  Hopefully, a researcher can find this and we can put this to bed.

 For me, this is the same as saying Shabibi was going to release the smalls in September.  Mystic found a great article and posted it in the Najiba thread that got so long, and it clarifies what was actually occurring.

 Baghdad, February 18 (Rn) – The parliamentary economic committee, Saturday, in agreement with the Iraqi Central Bank to begin the process of removing zeros from the local currency in September next.

 The central bank announced earlier that he is considering the requirements of the project to delete the zeros of the local currency with the Council of Ministers in terms of need process for the enactment of the organized or not.

  That's what I meant by "guru lore."  A piece of the truth is in the statement, but it's taken out of context.  Yes, the CBI said they wanted to begin the process, but they still had no support from the GOI and the event was centered on whether they could secure approval from Maliki and the CoM, it wasn't a statement that said that they would absolutely make it happen and the LD's would be released. 

Frank also posted an article, in this thread,  that I questioned because it had an anonymous State Department official and it had no link so we didn't know where it even came from other than a dinar site. 

In the future, I'll try to pose my questions in a manner that isn't perceived as an accusation of lying, which was not my intent.  DW said it best, no one knows everything as an absolute and we're all searching for the truth.

rDiddy:  Good grief - how did I miss that Frank was reporting an old article?! So much for skimming articles on a phone. I appreciate the thoughtful debate that's been brought to the thread! -mrs d

Aloha Alex:   " A high tide rises all boats." I wonder who came up with that? Certainly not a politician or a bankster I would imagine. Government and "the big boys" don't give a rat's behind about indepedent banks either. Centralized capitalism is alive and well in countries like Russia and China where they pick and choose which parts of capitalism they like and will benefit the elite. 

Mike is correct that this will be a "first" if it goes down as tlar says, but this entire plan is full of "firsts," starting from when our government flew over plane loads of cash and seemingly just dumped it in Iraq for anyone to grab.   --   You can preach a better sermon with your life than with your lips.

Rocko:  Hey Mike. I'm not sure if this is posted yet but it looks like Iraq just bought 36 more tonnes of gold. It's dated this year.

Economic Adviser to the Prime Minister revealed the appearance of Mohammed Saleh, said that the CBI recently bought 36 tons of pure gold bullion.

Saleh said in a statement seen by the Agency for News Agency (et) that "the strength of the gold reserves in the country positively reflected on the Iraqi currency strength and reduce the risk ratio in the economy calls for higher gold reserves in the bank and supporting confidence Almschtmaren foreigners in Iraqi currency and invest in the country." , following "The decline in global oil prices will undermine the chances increase gold reserves."

 He added that "the Iraqi economy is still fragile despite the large size of the gold reserves and poor financial policy of the government caused the gap with the monetary policy of the Central Bank."

 On the other hand goes on the Kurdistan region in the footsteps of Baghdad where to go to buy tons of Kurdistan imported during last year's 77 tons of gold, despite the financial situation there.

 He said, Bakr Aziz, director of quality control of the gold that "this amount was introduced to the region from different ports across Erbil Airport 31 tons and 760 kg in income across Sulaymaniyah Airport 44 tons and 630 kg," stressing that "there is a decline in imports of gold quantity Compared with 2013, amounting to imported in quantities of 116 tonnes this year due to the decline of import to the financial crisis and the war with Daash. "

 
Baghdad and Erbil Atsabakan to increase Aanaatehma of pure gold and supporting investor confidence

BAGHDAD - Iraq Press - January 13: Economic Adviser to the Prime Minister, the appearance of Mohammed Saleh, the Iraqi Central Bank revealed recently bought 36 tons of pure gold bullion.

 Saleh said L / Iraq Press / "The strength of the gold reserves in the country positively reflected on the Iraqi currency strength and reduce the proportion of risks in the economy calls for higher gold reserves in the bank and support Almschtmaren foreigners in Iraqi currency and investment confidence in the country," following up "The decline in prices global oil undermine opportunities to increase the reserve of gold. "

  He added that "the Iraqi economy is still fragile despite the large size of the gold reserves and poor financial policy of the government caused the gap with the monetary policy of the Central Bank."

  On the other hand, the province walked in the footsteps of Baghdad where to go to buy tons of Kurdistan imported during last year's 77 tons of gold, despite the financial situation there.

He said, Bakr Aziz, director of quality control on gold's / Iraq Press / "This quantity was introduced to the region from different ports across Erbil Airport 31 tons and 760 kg in income across Sulaymaniyah Airport 44 tons and 630 kg," stressing that "there is a decline in the imported quantity of gold, compared with 2013, with total quantities imported in the year 116 tons due to the decline of import to the financial crisis and the war with Daash. " Ended a., H 

http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/194422-saleh-the-power-of-gold-reserves-in-iraq-positively-reflected-on-the-iraqi-currency-strength/

 

[Jaygo]

Anyone who reads that all the way through is very bored with nothing to do. No thanks.

[bigwave]

Since I started speed reading I did it pretty quick. Thanks Thug.

[Texstorm]

After all of that ! No one knows......well its back to square one. I think that I'll get another cup of coffee and I hope that the sun is shining on all of us today. Smile everyone !

Thanks Thug !

[dontlop]

TLAR says

The reason all electronic accounts have to be restated at the new rate is you can't have a loan of 1,000,000 dinars restated as 1000 dinars equal to $1000 USD while his savings account with 50,000 dinars worth today about 50 dollars, benefit and is restated now as 50,000 dollars in value.

Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/194768-tlar-the-king-of-pick-and-choose-admonishes-members-that-they-cant-pick-and-choose/#ixzz3PBVwZPDS

But if you had a loan for a million dinar valued at 1000 dollars

And they made that loan 1000 dinar valued at 1000 dollars

Why can't they do that ?

Edited January 18, 2015 by dontlop