Democrats Propose a Law To Keep Obama Records Secret

[tarsi]

Well first of all Divemaster, I'm not angry about anything, so not sure where you get that and my response is only to intiated (ridiculus) might I add responses, as usual your type attempt to divide and conquer, by diversionary tactics, with your play on words, I would think by now you would realize it doesn't work on free thinking people, just because your rehtoric you attempt to blast in the hopes that you may grab ahold of a few unsuspecting or uninformed individuals that won't call you to task on the half truths, and unpatriotic statements you make, not to mention the fact that you or so arrogant to think that the nonsense you spill is not recognized by many, well sorry to disappoint you but this isnt the sixties and others will respond to your attacks, so am I to understand that only you and your type can express your thoughts and beliefs, but how dare we respond and have our own opinons, well MR. MASTER(dive) thats not the way it works, and trust me there is no anger AT ALL on my part I learned a long time ago that anger accomplishes nothing, the best defense and response is education and knowledge, and thats what irks you the most isnt it the fact that someone sees thru your vain attempts to create division thru delusion, well......... we'll be real good from now on sir..... NOT.... so I said all that to say this Divemaster I can care less about you your thoughts or your beliefs because your type we have dealt with from the beginning of time you think you know it all you think your way is the only way and you want to pretend to be for everyone but only care about yourself, and the minute someone disagrees with YOUR beliefs you try to use (which is the oldest trick in the book) the false premise of deflection so sir if you are not seeking an honest even debate......... well too bad and I can honestly say that with NOT ONE ONCE OF ANGER what about you????????????

[Francie26]

Kiteman...........thats because when it comes to Obama, they are not intrested in TRUTH or FACTS, as only their blind hatred guides them, and its sad to see how the PTB, manipulates them like a puppet on a string with the Obama distractions while they accomplish their own selfish agenda's all the while laughing at their gullability, and blind alligence, that benefits no one but them and their cause. Much like the mentality of the kamikaze soldier, we see how that has worked out for them.

tarsi, when it comes to what I think, I suggest you ask me and not tell me. I don't have a blind hatred of Obama. As to him personally, I have no opinion one way or another. However, I detest his policies, if you can even call them policies, because they are focused on the destruction of my country. He has taken our country this road furthur than has any other president in our history, and I want him to lose the next election. The price for keeping this man in office is just far too high. We may not be able to survive one term of Obama, but surviving him in office for two terms would be nearly impossible. It will take 10 years or longer to rebuild America after his 4 years of screwing things up, but with 8 years, I hate to even think what that would do to our nation. I have no clue what PTB is, but there is no one seriously laughing at this situation when there is just so much at stake. And if you've noticed, Obama can't seem to switch gears. As deeply as our country is in debt, he just keeps coming back spending more money. The government is already top-heavy with employees while businesses are unable to hire due to strangling governmental regulations,. There's just so much that is dangerously wrong these days, but just as Nero fiddled while Rome burned, Obama plays golf.

[tarsi]

Francie26 no disrespect, but if you honestly believe that Obama is the cause of our countries problems, then you just like the rest of the O haters are very very dilusional, because you have bought into the rehtoric that the PTB(powers that be) have fed you all to distract you and the rest of America while they continue robbing the American people, no free thinking rational human being can honestly say that Obama is the cause of the mess our country is in, and anytime I hear someone spewing that nonsense, it lets me know this is a person that clearly isnt thinking for themselves but merly running with the crowd. Of course Obama has done things wrong, of course he has made mistakes, and not accomplished all that we want or need, AS DID NO PRESIDENT, so to your statement what exactly are these policies (OF OBAMA's) that you so detest can you tell me one, or just what you have heard, becuase as far as I can tell from what you all say he hasnt done anything since being in office so what policies has he implemented that you hat so much??????????????????????

Edited October 9, 2011 by tarsi

[Weapon X]

Until this point i have read the post, the arguments and counter arguments, but did this start with the Democrats??? Even more what does it have to do with Obama???

Well people I recommend you look up EO 13233 signed into effect November 1, 2001 by the then President George W. Bush. When he issued Executive Order 13233 which overturned an executive order issued by President Reagan and gave current and former presidents and vice presidents broad authority to withhold presidential records or delay their release indefinitely.

You can read EO13233 at the link below

Executive Order 13233

And let me not forget President Obama first executive order EO 13489, entitled "Presidential Records," which revokes Executive Order 13,233, President George W. Bush's constitutionally lunatic procedure for enabling former Presidents and Vice Presidents to limit public access to their records.

You can read it here. Executive Order 13489

So tell me was it the democrats or was it the republicans that started out with this BS??? I have the answer BOTH of them.

Rtusty stop trying to polarize our country, research what your posts, the democrats have not done what Bush did with EO 13233. Which was revoked.

Are we to believe President Bush enacted EO 13233 so that Obama, who in your mind does not qualify, could become president?? Is this the next big conspiracy??

[Weapon X]

Rtrusty here is a challenge for you

Challenge 1

Reading this document H.R. 3071: Presidential Records Act Amendments of 2011 please show me where it states that they are proposing to keep Obamas records secret.

Do some reading for yourself and stop being a parrot to other fools.

[tarsi]

my point exactly WeaponX distrctions, distractions,distractions, and they use these peoples hate for Obama to keep them occupied, and dumb to the real facts of what they are doing which is stripping the American public of our wealth, health and future for their own selfish benefits, I'll be the first to admit that I am disappointed in the fact that President Obama hasn't done or accomplished all he said he would, but with that said I also realize that he has been fought tooth and nail from day one by the opposition, I mean if he wants to change the toilet paper in the white house he has to fight because they don't care a hill of beans about whats best for America if Obama is for it then NO period no need to comprimise NO,NO,NO........................ and no other President in history has had to endure this type resistance, so people can try to sugar coat it all they want but when the rubber hits the road it boils down to 2 things and 2 things only Hatred and racism, and because people try and convience themselves of any diffrent that in itself shows the true state of America. and I'm not talking about people that are just divided on party lines because you can tell the diffrence but some of the filth and disrespect that these people spew against and about our President well anyway you get my point

Edited October 9, 2011 by tarsi

[Weapon X]

Actually, the proposed legislation is not a new law - it is an attempt to amend the current law that has been on the books for years allowing Presidents to keep things secret for a period of time after their tenure as President is over:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/usc_sup_01_44_10_22.html

Here are the Bill numbers and the congresses they were proposed on

110th Congress: S. 886Dead

110th Congress: H.R. 1255Passed House ()

107th Congress: H.R. 4187Dead

Related Legislation

Edited October 9, 2011 by Weapon X

[HopefulTxn]

Until this point i have read the post, the arguments and counter arguments, but did this start with the Democrats??? Even more what does it have to do with Obama???

Well people I recommend you look up EO 13233 signed into effect November 1, 2001 by the then President George W. Bush. When he issued Executive Order 13233 which overturned an executive order issued by President Reagan and gave current and former presidents and vice presidents broad authority to withhold presidential records or delay their release indefinitely.

You can read EO13233 at the link below

Executive Order 13233

And let me not forget President Obama first executive order EO 13489, entitled "Presidential Records," which revokes Executive Order 13,233, President George W. Bush's constitutionally lunatic procedure for enabling former Presidents and Vice Presidents to limit public access to their records.

You can read it here. Executive Order 13489

So tell me was it the democrats or was it the republicans that started out with this BS??? I have the answer BOTH of them.

Rtusty stop trying to polarize our country, research what your posts, the democrats have not done what Bush did with EO 13233. Which was revoked.

Are we to believe President Bush enacted EO 13233 so that Obama, who in your mind does not qualify, could become president?? Is this the next big conspiracy??

Exactly. What states that they have this authority is found in US Code Title 44, Chapter 22 which was in the link I posted earlier. This is nothing new, just an(other) attempt to amend the current law which already allows for items to be hidden, at least for a set amount of time.

[Weapon X]

Exactly. What states that they have this authority is found in US Code Title 44, Chapter 22 which was in the link I posted earlier. This is nothing new, just an(other) attempt to amend the current law which already allows for items to be hidden, at least for a set amount of time.

You know that, I know that and anybody with 2 minutes to do a search on Google can know that.

[glo]

You know that, I know that and anybody with 2 minutes to do a search on Google can know that.

THANK YOU WEAPON X ...MIJITO ! TO BRING THE TRUTH ON THE TABLE !

HOW IS MY ISLA DEL ENCANTO ...KISSES TO HER !

AND TY FOR YOUR KINDNESS

[rapidrex]

In an obvious effort to protect President Barack Obama, a group of congressional Democrats has introduced legislation to create an official process that will allow the commander-in-chief to keep presidential records secret after he leaves office.

Ironically, Obama revoked a similar George W. Bush order in one of his first official acts as president. In 2001 Bush penned an executive order severely limiting public access to his presidential records. Shortly after swearing in, Obama killed it as part of his much-ballyhooed commitment to government transparency. At the time, the new president claimed that he was giving the American people greater access to “historic documents.”

It was the right move. The Bush Administration did indeed demonstrate a disappointing penchant for secrecy and Judicial Watch was a frontrunner in the effort to make records public. Examples include: The **** Cheney Energy Task Force records that JW pursued before the United States Supreme Court; Attorney General John Ashcroft’s order advising government agencies to withhold all discretionary disclosures; invoking executive privilege to block the House Government Reform Committee’s probe of the Campaign Financing Task Force.

If the Democrats’ proposed measure (Presidential Records Act Amendments of 2011) becomes law, former presidents will be allowed to assert a new “constitutionally based privilege” against disclosing records of their liking. Here is how it would work; the Archivist of the United States would be required to notify the former president, as well as the incumbent, of intentions to make records public. Anything that either the former or current president claims should be kept private won’t be released.

The veteran Brooklyn congressman (Edolphus Towns) who recently introduced the law in the U.S. House has yet to explain why it’s necessary. What’s certain is that Obama has failed miserably to keep his promise of running the most transparent administration in history. For examples read highlights from Judicial Watch’s testimony before Congress earlier this year. JW was invited to testify in separate House and Senate hearings during “Sunshine Week,” a national initiative by the news media, nonprofits and other organizations to promote government transparency and the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).

They are just embarrassed at whom they let decieve them and that he has NO right to be where he his, legally and honestly, and they want to HIDE this total loser's background that will prove how weak and stupid they were in voting him in. Nothing can match the ignorance and stupidity that the American voter displayed when they put this idiot in place except this attempted cover up. Hell...the guy doesn't even use a valid social security number so you KNOW the truth is very dark and they are embarrassed.

[Francie26]

Francie26 no disrespect, but if you honestly believe that Obama is the cause of our countries problems, then you just like the rest of the O haters are very very dilusional, because you have bought into the rehtoric that the PTB(powers that be) have fed you all to distract you and the rest of America while they continue robbing the American people, no free thinking rational human being can honestly say that Obama is the cause of the mess our country is in, and anytime I hear someone spewing that nonsense, it lets me know this is a person that clearly isnt thinking for themselves but merly running with the crowd. Of course Obama has done things wrong, of course he has made mistakes, and not accomplished all that we want or need, AS DID NO PRESIDENT, so to your statement what exactly are these policies (OF OBAMA's) that you so detest can you tell me one, or just what you have heard, becuase as far as I can tell from what you all say he hasnt done anything since being in office so what policies has he implemented that you hat so much??????????????????????

Just a quick internet search found several sites about this. I chose to bring you this one, plus I am including just a few of my own complaints against him.

http://dancingczars.wordpress.com/obamas-impeachabel-offenses/

1. Solyndra and the use of our taxpayer dollars to promote his next election.

2. Refusal to submit a budget

3. Attacks against American business

4. Making a power grab to get control of the census in order to control future election results.

5. Taking so many enormously expensive vacations and using Airforce One for electioneering at taxpayer expense

6. Wild spending without accountability

7. Denying his own culpubility and supporting Eric Holder regarding Fast and Furious.

8. Withdrawing our troops in both Afghanistan and Iraq before it is safe to do so

9. Not support the manpower requests of the generals in the field.

10. Apologizing for America all over the world.

11. Buying into (for all Americans) the faulty science of global warming

12. Bowing in my name to the Saudi King, thus to a dictator regime

13. His attitude of invincibilty, that he is never wrong.

14. His tax, tax, tax mentality.

15. His attack against Arizona in its fight against illegal immigration.

16. Blaming "my predecessor"and others in his attempts to avoid blame, i.e.responsibility.

17. Releasing Bush documents on getting intel from terrorists in an attempt to incriminate Bush.

18. Releasing other secret documents relating to that war in an attempt to incriminate President Bush.

19. Snooping and ignoring our right to privacy to figure out who we plan to vote for.

20. Using the IRS and other governmental agencies to go after those who disagree with him.

Do I need to continue?

[Francie26]

And let me ad one more--

21. Using czars to do sweeping end runs around congress and avoid congressional oversight of his administration in action.

[tarsi]

Yes and as I stated where are facts you must me kidding me with this popcorn blog............... not to mention everything you have listed is once again someone's personal opinions I FAIL TO SEE ANY INSTITUTED POLICIES that you whine about so please do continue with something of substance and not these childish bubble gum accusations.

oh yeah let me add one more--

22. Just as I stated it all boils down to your hate for him as THEIR IS NO PROOF of these so called Policies of his you hate

[Francie26]

Yes and as I stated where are facts you must me kidding me with this popcorn blog............... not to mention everything you have listed is once again someone's personal opinions I FAIL TO SEE ANY INSTITUTED POLICIES that you whine about so please do continue with something of substance and not these childish bubble gum accusations.

oh yeah let me add one more--

22. Just as I stated it all boils down to your hate for him as THEIR IS NO PROOF of these so called Policies of his you hate

There are none so blind as those who will not see. So for me, this discussion is over. Best wishes, tarsi, but I know when I am hitting a dead end, and I don't intend to keep a up a running dialogue that leads nowhere.

[Jaxinjersey]

Yes and as I stated where are facts you must me kidding me with this popcorn blog............... not to mention everything you have listed is once again someone's personal opinions I FAIL TO SEE ANY INSTITUTED POLICIES that you whine about so please do continue with something of substance and not these childish bubble gum accusations.

oh yeah let me add one more--

22. Just as I stated it all boils down to your hate for him as THEIR IS NO PROOF of these so called Policies of his you hate

Dear Tarsi... hello. I have been reading your posts, and although our fellow members do not need me to defend them, I will defend myself, as you lump us all together, indiscriminately.

You paint quite a broad stroke in your "attacks" of fellow members here who disagree with you... and honestly, you are not being respectfully passionate in your retorts... you are purely angry and condescending.

I politely ask you to refrain from the childish, typical left tactic of militant name-calling and bashing in place of substantive, respectful debate.

I'd suggest you replace your obvious anger with ideological passion... because it is qhuite apparent to many of us (that disagree with you) that the writing is on the wall with this administration... It doesn't take extreme anaylsis. links or otherwise to simply know that our reasoning and sensibilities are offended. The list provided by Francie26 is very much adequate to validate OUR concerns. Policy is just the pragmatic extension of ideology, so let's not fool ourselves as to the intent or motive. If they don't bother you.... that's your perspective... fine. But please, don't try to tell me I'm wrong about mine... and I'm not here to debate you or anyone else about MY clarity in this... it is self-evident.

As a fellow DV member, I wish for you to enjoy your personal perspective, with respectful passion... and we'll all get along just nicely.

[divemaster5734]

There are none so blind as those who will not see. So for me, this discussion is over. Best wishes, tarsi, but I know when I am hitting a dead end, and I don't intend to keep a up a running dialogue that leads nowhere.

You know, there are more haters rooting for obie than anywhere else.

They don't care about facts unless they can twist one to their purpose.

The socialist progressives will go down with bo, then we can finally conduct an investigation.

I have tried to talk with so many progressives, only to be sworn at, falsely accused, and lied to.

I think they hate themselves more than they hate life or truth.

Edited October 9, 2011 by divemaster5734

[tarsi]

Thank You very much! I agree fact is fact and you can't justify non truth with personal opinions and beliefs. ( that one's mine by the way)...............

[Weapon X]

And let me ad one more--

21. Using czars to do sweeping end runs around congress and avoid congressional oversight of his administration in action.

We as human beings tend to have a very short memory when our belief system is used as a barometer of realities.

I could go one by one down your prior list and agree or disagree based on proof and facts, but this one hit the spot for me.

So you say Obama has unconstitutionally instituted czars to run around congress and avoid congressional oversight but has he been the only one??? Are you sure??? well here is a list of czars(Tsars) in US history.

Historical US Czars

look at the list and tell me republicans and democrats have not done the same thing with the creation of czars, and if you want to say that he has used them to bypass congress and the Constitution, answer me this, why were there czars appointed, and confirmed by congress every time???

Edited October 9, 2011 by Weapon X