Top climate scientists admit global warming forecasts were wrong

[Maggie123]

 

Tigerstripes, in reply to your questions, providing a link that may answer the questions you posed to me, kinda long but has a lot of information.

 

Did not intend to get personal with anyone on this issue, but do get tired of the persons that want to make you feel as though your foolish, have your head in the sand etc. if your not in lock step with all their beliefs on this issue being discussed, like Al Gore saying "the debate is over, there is no debate".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           On that note you did have to get personal on the pollution issue, basically stating I don't care about children in India or China because they are "unimportant" I take offense to that statement, you took that totally out of context as I was trying to make a statement on the difference in regulation between China, India and the United States.

 

Words have meanings.  We really need to be careful how we use them.

I personally didn't think that is what you meant.............but it certainly did "read" that way.

 

Who in there right mind would not want a cleaner planet!  I'm all for that, but that does not mean I need to believe in the man made global warming hoax.

Do you agree that there are long term warming trends?

If you do agree that there are long term warming trends, have you done any research into the current rate of warming?

If you are interested in doing the research,  I suggest starting here here here here and here.

 

I'm against the powers that be who want nothing more than to bring the USA to her knees with treatys and regulations all pushed forth in our face with this global warming nonsense in order take wealth away from us and redistribute it as they see fit!

 

That is your conspiracy theory to prove.

 

Redifining the way we use energy through solar, wind, hydro is all a good thing and I'm behind all of that, but people need to look at things realisticly, you can't just turn to all these types of energy sources on a dime, it would take decades if not 50-100 years to make any significant turnover from fossil fuels, look at all the great things that have happened since the Industrial age, medicines, technology and a lot longer life spans! 

 

Have you taken into consideration the cost on inaction?

This is just one potential example

 

 I happen to believe that for billions of years our earth, sun and our solar system have more to do with the changes this planet goes through and supersedes anything man has done in an infintesimal amount of time we have lived on this planet.

 

I don't believe that anybody has argued that CO2 emissions are the sole factor in global warming.  At the present time however, they are a primary driving factor.

The evidence for this is really pretty well beyond debate.

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.timeline2012.net/prepare/possible-earth-events/sun-a-heat

 

Thanks for hearing me out tigerstripes   

 

Thank you for your reasoned response.

 

WoodChopper

 

 

 

I honestly had no intention of highjacking this thread... I came in here to hopefully learn more about these important issues.

 

Good debate guys... I appreciated seeing both sides.

 

Keep up the good work in presenting your views in a civil way... that is how you get your points across the most effectively.

 

 

Thank you for all the links... now I've got a lot of reading to do that should help in learning more about this.

Lots of varying views on this topic.It seems we that could argue about this forever.

 

Unfortunately the question answered within our children's generation.

 

That is pretty fast!

 

Magawatt you have brought in a lot of good information too... just wanted you to know I have appreciated that as well. Thank You.

[tigerstripes]

Another major issue in America is teacher talent. Places like Singapore and Finland only select teachers from the top 10% of college grads, while increasingly, our teachers are drawn from the bottom 1/3 and you have proven these facts over and over with each of your post, Teacher.

 

What are you basing these statements on?  Do you have evidence to back up your claim?

Also, why do you think it is difficult for American schools to attract high achievers to their teaching staff?

You have about 9 sentences in your infantile diatribe of which you state are questions? In case you can't count either, I'll do it for you. You only have 3 questions, that's 3 ??? marks out of 9. That should help you to highlight all 3 "???" if you wish. But don't expect an adult response until you grow up.

 

Which part of the "diatribe" did you find "infantile"?

Do you have any response to the questions?

 

And lastly........

 

Why on Earth do you think that I would anticipate an adult response from you?

[tigerstripes]

Lots of varying views on this topic.It seems we that could argue about this forever.

 

Unfortunately the question answered within our children's generation.

 

Or, perhaps even in some of our lifetimes.

[Maggie123]

Okay I am going to weigh in here... hopefully with something we should all be able to agree on.

 

I get that the taxes are a huge issue for some who are so against global warming being true... I get that and agree... that stinks.

Just don't throw the baby out with the bath water...

 

Put all of these arguments aside and could we possibly agree that the oil grab has been causing some terrible wars and that it might benefit us to get less dependend on oil asap to help take the motivation away for doing that? How could anyone not support that?

 

Anyone see the news reports about the leaking oil tanks in the Colorado floods?

How about that nuclear plant leaking all that radiation over in Japan that came our way?

Or the disaster in the gulf spewing barrels of oil for weeks... what a living nightmare that seemed like it would never end!!!

Those are just a few...

 

I am all for alternative sources of energy and I bet it really would not be so hard if we embraced it. All this fighting about it seems so unnecessary unless it's a just another convenient way to keep the great left/right divide going. Is that it?

 

As for bring good stewards of our planet... how can anyone not support that?

[Maggie123]

As for Being good stewards of our planet... sorry I'm tired.

[jonjon]

As of right now, there more than a dozen boats trapped in the Arctic ice.

They were trying to navigate the legendary Northwest Passage.

This because they were convinced there would not be any after the claims made by prominent scientists and media.

I'm sure some of those people will not survive...DM

 

 

Arctic grabs gullible sailors

By Dennis Avery (Bio and Archives)  Wednesday, September 18, 2013

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Churchville, VA—The naïve advice of ardent activists can kill. Last spring, Paul Beckwith of Sierra Club Canada predicted that the Arctic seas would be ice-free ice this summer. (So did Britain’s BBC network) This exciting adventure opportunity attracted a variety of yachts, sailboats, rowboats, and kayaks owners to try sailing the fabled Northwest Passage.

As a former sailboat owner I can understand their excitement, but my heart aches for the agonies they now face. The Arctic sea ice suddenly expanded 60 percent this fall, after the coldest summer in the modern Alaska temperature record. The passage is now impassable. More than a dozen of the boats are trapped, apparently even including a group of tiny American jet-ski “personal watercraft” that were attempting to cross from the east coast of Russia to the North Atlantic.  Arctic observers are now warning that even Canadian icebreakers might not be able to rescue them.

The Northwest Passage blog reminds us that fall super storms are a potentially deadly fact in Alaska. “It is only a matter time.

. . . Give Mother Nature her due time and she will move billions of tons of sea ice and push it up against the Alaska Arctic coast—effectively closing the door to exit the Arctic ice from western Canada. . . . No icebreakers are going to be able to offer any assistance. Mother nature is mightier than all the icebreakers put together.”  Note that the Atlantic exit is already problematic.

Helicopter rescues on Arctic ice are incredibly expensive, involving hundreds of miles of flying by copters and crews expensively maintained in that icy and sparsely populated region. Additionally, all the lovely boats become write-offs.

The boaters ignored major warning signs. The planet has not warmed appreciably in at least 15 years. NASA told us in 2007 that the Pacific Ocean had shifted into the cool phase of its 60-year cycle and that fact predicted cooler winters until 2030.

Most concerning of all is that the costs of an Arctic sailing mistake are horrendous. Wonderfully preserved hulks of sunken explorers’ ships litter the sea-bottom around the Northwest Passage. Some of the vessels that survived the ice were trapped for as long as three winters. At least one sailboat recently froze into the ice near Svalbard. The captain and his boat were buried under the heavy snow, 100 miles from human habitation. (He actually survived to write a book.)

Inevitably, being gullible carries a price tag

The risks run by the Arctic boaters are obvious. Modern society is running less obvious risks based on the same sort of naïve advice coming from the Sierra Club, Greenpeace, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, and a host of like-minded “saviors of the planet.” What about the poor and elderly Britons and Germans who have frozen to death in their homes because they couldn’t afford the higher costs of gas and electricity imposed by “renewable fuels”?

What about the millions of Third World mothers and children who die of lung diseases every year as it is politically incorrect to give them access to tiny amounts of kerosene for heating and cooking. The alternative is burning dung and charcoal in indoor, poorly ventilated fires.

Closer to home, what about the millions of young Americans who can’t get jobs in an economy stalled by overpriced “green” energy and investor uncertainty over the War on Coal?  Inevitably, being gullible carries a price tag. We are just beginning to realize how expensive the naïveté of the environmental movement has become.

Just ask ol tigerstripes, these people don't have a chance of getting ice blocked with the warming trend of the planet.

[tigerstripes]

Okay I am going to weigh in here... hopefully with something we should all be able to agree on.

 

I get that the taxes are a huge issue for some who are so against global warming being true... I get that and agree... that stinks.

Just don't throw the baby out with the bath water...

 

Put all of these arguments aside and could we possibly agree that the oil grab has been causing some terrible wars and that it might benefit us to get less dependend on oil asap to help take the motivation away for doing that? How could anyone not support that?

 

Anyone see the news reports about the leaking oil tanks in the Colorado floods?

How about that nuclear plant leaking all that radiation over in Japan that came our way?

Or the disaster in the gulf spewing barrels of oil for weeks... what a living nightmare that seemed like it would never end!!!

Those are just a few...

 

I am all for alternative sources of energy and I bet it really would not be so hard if we embraced it. All this fighting about it seems so unnecessary unless it's a just another convenient way to keep the great left/right divide going. Is that it?

 

One of the problems with renewable energy sources is the "peak load" requirements that modern societies have.  At the moment, renewables can't supply this.  In the future they may, but right now they can't.

I have, for a long time, been a supporter of individual houses becoming energy independant.  It's not really all that difficult or costly to make a domestic home self sufficient.  Solar panels with battery storage capabilities are close to becoming reality.

The problem at the moment, is that a lot of people can't afford to do this - so governments would have to chip in.

The next problem that this causes, is that the "peak load" energy supply to businesses would still have to be provided, and if the cost of producing that energy is not spread between business consumers and domestic consumers, the costs go up.  And if the government is not prepared to assist domestic consumers with converting to sustainable energy sources, the cost of energy to those domestic consumers who can't afford to convert to renewable will also rise.

 

At the moment, burning coal, or oil, is the cheapest way to produce peak load energy as well as the other uses we have for modern living, such as cars.

 

With regard to nuclear power, it is an interesting side note to realise that burning of coal to produce energy actually releases higher levels of radiation than a properly functioning nuclear plant.  However, environmentally speaking, when a nuclear plant is not functioning correctly, the results can be.............pretty bad.

 

As for bring good stewards of our planet... how can anyone not support that?

 

Absolutely.  And we only have one to play with.

[The Machine]

Another attack from a libtard. Imagine that.

This has to be the shortest post you've ever written. Thanks for sparing us.

You must have been banned recently ...... Who did you used to be .

Anyway at this rate you'll be banned again before you get to respond to this.

[tigerstripes]

Just ask ol tigerstripes, these people don't have a chance of getting ice blocked with the warming trend of the planet.

 

   

 

Why would you ask me?  Did I claim somewhere that the Arctic Sea Ice was going to disappear in 2013?

[magawatt]

Stronger Winds May Explain Puzzling Growth of Sea Ice in Antarctica, Model Shows

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/09/130918001910.htm

Sep. 18, 2013 — Much attention is paid to melting sea ice in the Arctic. But less clear is the situation on the other side of the planet. Despite warmer air and oceans, there's more sea ice in Antarctica now than in the 1970s -- a fact often pounced on by global warming skeptics. The latest numbers suggest the Antarctic sea ice may be heading toward a record hugh.

University of Washington researcher says the reason may lie in the winds. A new modeling study to be published in the Journal of Climate shows that stronger polar winds lead to an increase in Antarctic sea ice, even in a warming climate."The overwhelming evidence is that the Southern Ocean is warming," said author Jinlun Zhang, an oceanographer at the UW Applied Physics Laboratory. "Why would sea ice be increasing? Although the rate of increase is small, it is a puzzle to scientists."His new study shows that stronger westerly winds swirling around the South Pole can explain 80 percent of the increase in Antarctic sea ice volume in the past three decades.The polar vortex that inswirls around the South Pole is not just stronger than it was when satellite records began in the 1970s, it has more convergence, meaning it shoves the sea ice together to cause ridging. Stronger winds also drive ice faster, which leads to still more deformation and ridging. This creates thicker, longer-lasting ice, while exposing surrounding water and thin ice to the blistering cold winds that cause more ice growth.In a computer simulation that includes detailed interactions between wind and sea, thick ice -- more than 6 feet deep -- increased by about 1 percent per year from 1979 to 2010, while the amount of thin ice stayed fairly constant. The end result is a thicker, slightly larger ice pack that lasts longer into the summer."You've got more thick ice, more ridged ice, and at the same time you will get more ice extent because the ice just survives longer," Zhang said.When the model held the polar winds at a constant level, the sea ice increased only 20 percent as much. A previous study by Zhang showed that changes in water density could explain the remaining increase."People have been talking about the possible link between winds and Antarctic sea ice expansion before, but I think this is the first study that confirms this link through a model experiment," commented Axel Schweiger, a polar scientist at the UW Applied Physics Lab. "This is another process by which dynamic changes in the atmosphere can make changes in sea ice that are not necessarily expected."The research was funded by the National Science Foundation.Still unknown is why the southern winds have been getting stronger. Some scientists have theorized that it could be related to global warming, or to the ozone depletion in the Southern Hemisphere, or just to natural cycles of variability.Differences between the two poles could explain why they are not behaving in the same way. Surface air warming in the Arctic appears to be greater and more uniform, Zhang said. Another difference is that northern water is in a fairly protected basin, while the Antarctic sea ice floats in open oceans where it expands freely in winter and melts almost completely in summer.The sea ice uptick in Antarctica is small compared with the amount being lost in the Arctic, meaning there is an overall decrease in sea ice worldwide.Many of the global climate models have been unable to explain the observed increase in Antarctic sea ice. Researchers have been working to improve models to better reproduce the observed increase in sea ice there and predict what the future may bring.Eventually, Zhang anticipates that if warmer temperatures come to dominate they will resolve the apparent contradiction."If the warming continues, at some point the trend will reverse," Zhang said.