Respect

[pureau79]

This post is in response to several comments I have recently read... I know there are a number of individuals who are really sensitive to and easily offended by the mention of one's faith. I also know there are those who are so heavenly minded that they are not much earthly good. It is what it is. I thought that we could all take a second look at our own individual positions. This IS a website which is frequented by a group of currency speculators. It is a currency speculation site not a religious site. However, the make up of the group is quite diverse. Some among us feel that it is okay to promote spirituality. Others feel justified to promote anti-spirituality. The following exchange is taken from another topic and copied here (with minor editing... I felt a couple of things could have been better said) because it is important to both sides. One side wants to censor ALL mention of faith in the forums. The other side often takes religious licenses to preach. Neither is correct. My point in starting this thread is to get both sides to consider the depth of the issue. A personal relationship with God through Christ (or Allah, or Buddah, or...) cannot simply be defined as "religion" and therefore isolated. When a deep and abiding faith exists it carries over into every aspect of the individuals life. The absense of that same deep and abiding faith cannot be "cured" through the heaping up of words and scripture. Mutual respect is my goal here. For your consideration:

Your post was reported by another member which is how I found it. I am Catholic but I don't go preaching about it on a website that is not setup about religion which is why I was trying to give the alternative website where your post could be taken in better by the member there. You have to realize this is a mixed community and not everyone is religous and can be a touchy subject just like politics can be. Yes there has been religous sayings on this website as we can not catch everything and some things are as I said "minimal" so they can be overlooked. As far as your last sentence if we don't catch it ourselves and you see something wrong please by all means help us out and use the report button.

Its not that it has turned its back ... just a touchy subject that can cause too much flares in a post. Same with some political things. They can easily go south sometimes. .... And I said minimum not forbidden.

Thanks for understaing ... Also it was not deleted, just hidden from public view. I never delete anything, I am a pack rat. (Don't let the bunny suit fool you.)

I did not mean to seem preachy. As stated earlier I DO understand the prevailing logic applied here. I am NOT offended, am NOT religious, do NOT attend church and do not NORMALLY respond as I did, but I do believe that having a personal relationship with Christ transcends religion. The person who started this thread stated the intention to be "on knees" and "in prayer". Another person told them to save the prayers for AFTER the rv. I am from the heart of the Southern United States. Spirituality and the expression of faith is common and familiar, easily intermingling in daily life. It seems to me that people are so afraid of being offensive, and others are so easily offended, that un-natural and out of balance efforts are made to accommodate those who ARE easily offended. The primary reason people are easily offended is that they do not want to concede an inward discomfort with some aspect(s) of their own spiritual life (or death)(e.g. That they feel convicted to do more or better in their own lives). Therefore, I DID and DO, by your admonition and a sense of humility, concede that another forum is better suited for religious rants and will make sincere efforts to minimize the expression of my conviction.

Yes. I also agree with Riverdawg that not all people believe as the "religious" among us and it does get tiresome reading through many religious dissertations. Some people tend to be so heavenly minded that they are not much earthly good and do not realize that the heaping up of words is largely ineffectual (impotent), but unlike most I CHOOSE not to be easily offended by rants having their origin in either religion or secularism. There are frequent, hap-hazard, off color comments made in these forums, and there is language commonly used that are disrespectful and not acceptable for public use. Yet, people use it as though it is acceptable without ever giving thought to the fact that it may offend the "religious" (or the ladies and the elders) among us. Is that a double standard? Yes. It is a double standard, but unlike the spiritual toddlers, I make an effort to keep it all in perspective. I have worked industrial construction for most of my life and trivial matters of words, ideas and opinions do not easily offend me. Yes. There are times when some certain individuals take these forums as an opportunity to be preachy and show how "spiritual" they are by vainly attempting to perform the Holy Spirits function of bringing conviction where it is due and never realize that the most important testament to the world is not found in parrotting scripture, but is best displayed through the examples of character and integrity in each and every thing we do in our daily lives. Integrity will cause one to do the right thing even if no one else is watching.

If you take the words I wrote and view them in context, they were (in my opinion) an appropriate response to an secular inference that prayer is futile and should be saved for after the RV. Which, by the way, these two extremes (spirituality and anti-spirituality) are in diametrical opposition. All life is spiritual whether one embraces that spirituality or not. Truth is truth. If there is any doubt of this truth all one needs do is to stand and witness the birth of a child, or ascend a mountain, sit alone in the forest, hear the birds song, or witness the power of the ocean or, lastly, hold the hand of one who is dying. If we are so shallow and thin skinned that there is no room at our table for both the believers and non-believers then we are lost already for we cannot all be a hand, or an eye. We each have a place in the balance of life. I will continue keeping my heart's conviction at a "minimum" out of respect for your request. In return for that I expect the same consideration from those who may be tempted to disregard the "religious" (or the ladies and the elders) among us. Before one activates that "report" button perhaps that one needs to do a little personal inventory as to how they may have been (or be) offensive to others.

[NotReallyTex]

I like everyone

[MrMiyagi]

Just wanted to say right off the bat; right on! I may have my own views on the topic, but I know others differ and it's all of our privilage to disagree but it's also our responsibilty to respect one and other. I love your point and it needed to be said. Honestly this is only off of the first paragraph, I will continue reading...... now.

......and after reading the rest, I have to say I could not have said it better myself.

[pureau79]

And before y'all start bashing, I just realized my mistake. I intended to post this in "Off Topic Posts".

[siriusstuff]

We are Spiritual Beings living in a materail world. I love you!

[Tiffany23]

What a brilliantly written post. From a heart of a poet, me thinks!

I couldn't agree more with my friend. I have received nothing but goodwill and kindness since I started posting...EXCEPT when I ventured into religious topics. I consider myself to be a good, honest, kind and very friendly person. I would never do anything to intentionally hurt someone and yet I'm not a Christian, I'm a Buddhist. However, when I've posted on one of these topics, in order to enlighten the poster that some of us aren't Christians, I've received negative posts/points and even told to leave America. That really hurt, as anyone that knows me, knows that I'm extremely patriotic. So, I made a vow not to even go into these topics, as it seems my insights aren't appreciated and seems offensive to many. It is only because someone that I hold in vast esteem has made it a point, to make a point, that I stand with him.

[pureau79]

What a brilliantly written post. From a heart of a poet, me thinks!

I couldn't agree more with my friend. I have received nothing but goodwill and kindness since I started posting...EXCEPT when I ventured into religious topics. I consider myself to be a good, honest, kind and very friendly person. I would never do anything to intentionally hurt someone and yet I'm not a Christian, I'm a Buddhist. However, when I've posted on one of these topics, in order to enlighten the poster that some of us aren't Christians, I've received negative posts/points and even told to leave America. That really hurt, as anyone that knows me, knows that I'm extremely patriotic. So, I made a vow not to even go into these topics, as it seems my insights aren't appreciated and seems offensive to many. It is only because someone that I hold in vast esteem has made it a point, to make a point, that I stand with him.

Tiff, it goes without saying that if you push someone, most will push back. Why? Because an attempt is made to change their circumstances and people are creatures of habit. They are resistant to change. I made a promise years ago, when my youngest son was born (he's turning out to be a fine young man that I do not always agree with), that I would be willing to discuss any topic he wanted to know about. No matter how uncomfortable it could be. My point is that a large segment of the world's people are very closed minded and unwilling to think outside the box, therefore, you get those shallow responses. Sad... but true. Anyway, I like your posts and feel a kindred spirit in them.

[frs61]

pureau79 very well written, I am new and have spent many hours reading post, present and past.This is probaly one of the better ones I've read. The bottom line is we only have the power to change ourselves. So If the storey is always the same it is up us to figure out why we let history repeat itself. Not impose our rath on others for there beliefs. Thanks

[NotReallyTex]

Pureau79 sorry I had to run out on you last night. I was really burnt out on all the serious talk.

I really loved your post and it was obvious you are sincere. I wish this post would be made a sticky for everyone to read. I know it won't though. I think your a little like me in that you want us all to get along. I really do wish we would all learn to respect each others differences and be open minded. Our differences are what make us special and unique.

[pureau79]

Pureau79 sorry I had to run out on you last night. I was really burnt out on all the serious talk.

I really loved your post and it was obvious you are sincere. I wish this post would be made a sticky for everyone to read. I know it won't though. I think your a little like me in that you want us all to get along. I really do wish we would all learn to respect each others differences and be open minded. Our differences are what make us special and unique.

I often feel torn when approaching these matters because on the one hand I wish it did not need to be so, then on the other, I feel so blessed when someone like you tells me my sincerity is obvious. All a person ever really has is their word. Wealth and poverty are circumstances that can change, but a person's character is the essence of who they truly are. I am humbled by your post. Yes. We probably are more alike than we know... Thank you.

And many thanks to frs61 also... and anyone else who feels similarly. Peace.

[MovieMaker]

What a brilliantly written post. From a heart of a poet, me thinks!

I couldn't agree more with my friend. I have received nothing but goodwill and kindness since I started posting...EXCEPT when I ventured into religious topics. I consider myself to be a good, honest, kind and very friendly person. I would never do anything to intentionally hurt someone and yet I'm not a Christian, I'm a Buddhist. However, when I've posted on one of these topics, in order to enlighten the poster that some of us aren't Christians, I've received negative posts/points and even told to leave America. That really hurt, as anyone that knows me, knows that I'm extremely patriotic. So, I made a vow not to even go into these topics, as it seems my insights aren't appreciated and seems offensive to many. It is only because someone that I hold in vast esteem has made it a point, to make a point, that I stand with him.

When good or bad experiences happen to you, get excited! Either way YOU HAVE GAINED TO GROW FROM IT. Every experience will build your character or even give you reason to be THANKFUL FOR WHO YOU ARE. Thankful enough to pray for those who do not have what WE have as a person. Doesn't it feel good to be YOU? Bless your sweet heart, from ME.

[NotReallyTex]

What a brilliantly written post. From a heart of a poet, me thinks!

I couldn't agree more with my friend. I have received nothing but goodwill and kindness since I started posting...EXCEPT when I ventured into religious topics. I consider myself to be a good, honest, kind and very friendly person. I would never do anything to intentionally hurt someone and yet I'm not a Christian, I'm a Buddhist. However, when I've posted on one of these topics, in order to enlighten the poster that some of us aren't Christians, I've received negative posts/points and even told to leave America. That really hurt, as anyone that knows me, knows that I'm extremely patriotic. So, I made a vow not to even go into these topics, as it seems my insights aren't appreciated and seems offensive to many. It is only because someone that I hold in vast esteem has made it a point, to make a point, that I stand with him.

Tiff I am sorry someone treated you like that. There are fanatics everywhere and a true Christian who really wanted to share their joy would not have treated you that way. It's people like that who have turned me off to organized religion. I don't have to go to a church to have kindness in my heart. I don't really understand Buddhism but the few I have meant were very gentle and kind, something I think ALL persons should strive to me. I have meant a few very nice Muslims. Being kind isn't really related to what your religious beliefs are, at least in my opinion I don't think it should matter.

If someones really happy with their religion and life choices then be happy and share your beliefs, don't try to force them upon someone else.

[Tiffany23]

Thank you Ladies!

And also you JesusFreak on providing me insight into your thoughts and faith.

When a Buddhist is faced with negativity, we are suppose to look within ourselves first, to see if we caused it. If you excuse my speech, I f up all the time. I talk when I should be listening...really listening. And I should be reflecting more on how that person views the world instead of how I think they should. So moviemaker and tex, your words hit home. Thank you!

And of course, to my furball friend....your THE BEST Mr. P!

Edited January 9, 2011 by Tiffany23

[hurricanewayne]

What a brilliantly written post. From a heart of a poet, me thinks!

I couldn't agree more with my friend. I have received nothing but goodwill and kindness since I started posting...EXCEPT when I ventured into religious topics. I consider myself to be a good, honest, kind and very friendly person. I would never do anything to intentionally hurt someone and yet I'm not a Christian, I'm a Buddhist. However, when I've posted on one of these topics, in order to enlighten the poster that some of us aren't Christians, I've received negative posts/points and even told to leave America. That really hurt, as anyone that knows me, knows that I'm extremely patriotic. So, I made a vow not to even go into these topics, as it seems my insights aren't appreciated and seems offensive to many. It is only because someone that I hold in vast esteem has made it a point, to make a point, that I stand with him.

I would like to address this if I may,chirstians, jewish, boubbhist, or any other religish aspect that is not menchend here. we need to all think about how any remakes can hurt some one who is differant than us. we all should try to be better to others and look at what they have to say as just their owen opnion of speach, but when some one come right out and tells some they are not wecome some where need to think maybe their not wecome there either. every one has freedom of speach, but the word use should be choise wisely. we are all humanbeings on the same planet and we should respect other as we respect are self.

Tiffany23 I want to say sorry you had some who made you feel bad with words, but remmeber there only words and if some tells you to get out of the usa they should leave too.

I want you to feel like you belong where ever you want to it is your choise to live there. I hope you don't run into people who make you feel bad you seem like a nice person to me.

[Tiffany23]

Thank you Kind Sir...that means a lot to me!

By the way, I tried to send you a personal note on your profile page but both times it didn't show up. Could be my computer, but glad I get to thank you some way!

[smee2]

Another point of view

Humans, by thier very definition, are territorial and acquisative.

That land is mine, that cave on it is mine those people in it are mine the bullock is mine, the cow is mine, th sheep and the goat are mine and the two chickens are mine too. The furs that I wear and the tools I make and carry are all mine too. Then it is the car that is mine, the job is mine, the Bayliner down at the water's edge is mine too.

Along comes faith. Something that you cannot touch but fele it inside you. You cannot see it but you believe it without question. But, and for all of us who have some kind of faith beyond our own capabilities, there is a but, often times a very big but. What if ... ? during the darkest of nights waiting for the birth of your child when nothing is going right the prayers spurred by faith will begin to give way to doubt. When there has been an accident and you are waiting to hear if your wife or husband has survived, your faith begins to thin out and let doubt creep in. And every time things do not happen as you would have faith make them happen, you doubt.

Those things we have, from the cave to the bullock to the chidkens to the boat in the bay, they are all things. We can explain them without pictures and people will know what we mean. They are always there even their wreckage if there in a disaster, they are still there. See? That was my home, that was my boat, those were my chickens.

But faith, and lets make it Faith with a capital letter, is not provable to anyone else. You may gather into a group of likeminded believers to share your faith, to worship in a bunch, to raise your voices in hopes of being heard in a building you call the house of God. But even there some will view their faith just a little differently. There are miniscule differences between what one person believes and another. It is all based on our own individual coming to faith, in our own individual way. But when you begin to doubt your faith, if a storm hits and begins to destroy it, you cannot point at things and say, there is my faith, there is what I believe in, there is the proof I need to know i still have faith.

It goes back to becoming something between you and your God and is not something you can prove, or show, or describe.

arguing about faith is about as useful as arguing with a blind man what the colour blue is. Only those who have experienced it will have it and only in their own ways, in their own souls.

That's my take on it.

And thanks for everyone jumping in with opinions. It is good to read.

smee2

[MovieMaker]

smee2

Another point of view . . . . TRUE, Enjoyed reading that!

[pureau79]

Another point of view

Humans, by thier very definition, are territorial and acquisative.

smee2

One day, two years ago, I was on a job, my eldest son was there and a horrible accident occurred. It was the longest hour I can remember. Waiting... I called and called. There was no answer.

I do not know why one is taken and another remains.

I do not know.

I do know, I am still here.

This I know.

Everyday.

I know his absense, and I know HIS presence.

Pain brought me to a deeper understanding of my walk in this world, and good can come from tragedy... if we seek it. The longer I live the more I am pursuaded that those things I once believed were essential are relatively meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Wisdom is a greater treasure than riches.

I miss Daniel every day. I will not miss an opportunity with those who also remain.

We are here aren't we smee2?

Agape

Peace

[Tiffany23]

WOW! Smee! That is so very beautiful...

I did not know that when I joined this site, that I would walk with poets and angles. You all humble me and I feel honored to be exposed to such unconditional love and wisdom! I image all of you must have families that love you very much!