We Experience the Spirit Through Faith

[ronscarpa]

We Experience the Spirit Through Faith

Our WORD For Sunday, 7/12/2015

 

 "If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit." (Galatians 5:25) 

 

The Spirit came to you the first time when you believed in the blood-bought promises of God. And the Spirit keeps on coming, and keeps on working, by this same means.

So Paul asks, rhetorically, “Does He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?” (Galatians 3:5). Answer: “By hearing with faith.”

Therefore, the Spirit came the first time, and the Spirit keeps on being supplied, through the channel of faith. What He accomplishes in us is through faith.

If you are like me, you may have strong longings from time to time for the mighty working of the Holy Spirit in your life. Perhaps you cry out to God for the outpouring of the Spirit in your life or in your family or church or city. Such cries are right and good. Jesus said, “How much more will the Heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!” (Luke 11:13).

But what I have found most often in my own life is the failure to open myself to the full measure of the Spirit’s work by believing the promises of God. I don’t mean merely the promise that the Spirit will come when we ask. I mean all the other precious promises that are not directly about the Spirit but, perhaps, about God’s provision for my future — for example, “My God will supply every need of yours” (Philippians 4:19).

This is what is missing in the experience of so many Christians as they seek the power of the Spirit in their lives. The Spirit is supplied to us “by hearing with faith” (Galatians 3:5) — not just faith in one or two promises about the Spirit Himself, but about all the soul-satisfying presence of God in our future.

                                                                                                                                                           John Piper

[Peace]

""So Paul asks, rhetorically, “Does He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?” (Galatians 3:5). Answer: “By hearing with faith.”""

 

Hi Nelg, 

 

What law is being referenced (universal law or ...) also why would it matter that faith is over law?

 

Edited July 12, 2015 by Peace

[Peace]

faith through hearing or works of the law    .... im more interested in why one is over the other... sorry i had to reword it 

[Peace]

couldn't wait for the answer so i googled some stuff.

 

""O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith (Galatians 3:1-5, KJV)?""

 

the part where it says "having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" i get it... we are of the spirit and we are inhabiting the human vessel, so which were we first, has to be spirit. 

[Peace]

but what "laws" govern the spirit if moses laws aren't the highest authority?

[Nelg]

Good afternoon (at least my time), Peace.  Since this is Ron's thread you might want to address the questions to him.  I know he would probably have a good and sufficient answer.  

 

However, since I am on the thread now I will give a short answer.  

The Galatian problem stems mainly from a group within the church who were trying to be justified by their deeds of keeping the Law of Moses instead of trusting in Christ Jesus.  Their salvation was based in their doing rather that what Christ did.  The Law was a tutor that prophesied of the Messiah to come, Jesus.  It could not make the individual free from sin (unbelief).  The "promise to Abraham" was a covenant before the Law of Moses that in "his seed" all the people of the earth were to be blessed (that is to received the Holy Spirit).  The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the seal that one is a child of God and gives the Christian the power to live a life of faith.  The Law of Moses or any law system cannot give the Holy Spirit to indwell.  It was only Christ Jesus who could give the Spirit.  He gave the Spirit on the Day of Pentecost when He (Christ) "poured out the Spirit" for mankind.  This was the only time the Spirit was "poured out" or "baptized with the Holy Spirit (Acts 2).  The Spirit then would be received when an individual believed, repented of sin, and was baptized into Christ (2:38-39).  This was the act of faith (Gal 3:14).  One did not need to "do the works of the Law" or do the works of any system of law to receive forgiveness and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, He came to indwell by that faith.  

 

Once the Spirit indwells the individual, that person will want to do the things give by the Spirit for us to do: bear the fruit, walk after Him, and live a life of faith.  No one can do that unless they have the Holy Spirit.  

 

What "laws govern the spirit, if moses laws aren't the highest authority?" is the question you ask.  I am assuming that you are speaking of the human spirit rather than the Holy Spirit.  We are made up of body and spirit (soul) but our human spirit is powerless against the forces of darkness.  When we receive the Holy Spirit to indwell us, it is the Spirit working with our spirit in order to shape us into the image of Christ, the Lord (2Cor 3:17-18).  The Christian follows the basic principles of holy living given by God that are common to both Old and New Testaments; primarily the teaching of the New Covenant.  But the New Covenant, nor the Old Covenant form the basis of "rules and regulations" to produce salvation or life, that only comes through faith in Jesus as Lord and God.  Romans 8 is an excellent read to comprehend the beginning of the Christian walk.  

[Peace]

Good afternoon (at least my time), Peace.  Since this is Ron's thread you might want to address the questions to him.  I know he would probably have a good and sufficient answer.  

 

However, since I am on the thread now I will give a short answer.  

The Galatian problem stems mainly from a group within the church who were trying to be justified by their deeds of keeping the Law of Moses instead of trusting in Christ Jesus.  Their salvation was based in their doing rather that what Christ did.  The Law was a tutor that prophesied of the Messiah to come, Jesus.  It could not make the individual free from sin (unbelief).  The "promise to Abraham" was a covenant before the Law of Moses that in "his seed" all the people of the earth were to be blessed (that is to received the Holy Spirit).  The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the seal that one is a child of God and gives the Christian the power to live a life of faith.  The Law of Moses or any law system cannot give the Holy Spirit to indwell.  It was only Christ Jesus who could give the Spirit.  He gave the Spirit on the Day of Pentecost when He (Christ) "poured out the Spirit" for mankind.  This was the only time the Spirit was "poured out" or "baptized with the Holy Spirit (Acts 2).  The Spirit then would be received when an individual believed, repented of sin, and was baptized into Christ (2:38-39).  This was the act of faith (Gal 3:14).  One did not need to "do the works of the Law" or do the works of any system of law to receive forgiveness and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, He came to indwell by that faith.  

 

Once the Spirit indwells the individual, that person will want to do the things give by the Spirit for us to do: bear the fruit, walk after Him, and live a life of faith.  No one can do that unless they have the Holy Spirit.  

 

What "laws govern the spirit, if moses laws aren't the highest authority?" is the question you ask.  I am assuming that you are speaking of the human spirit rather than the Holy Spirit.  We are made up of body and spirit (soul) but our human spirit is powerless against the forces of darkness.  When we receive the Holy Spirit to indwell us, it is the Spirit working with our spirit in order to shape us into the image of Christ, the Lord (2Cor 3:17-18).  The Christian follows the basic principles of holy living given by God that are common to both Old and New Testaments; primarily the teaching of the New Covenant.  But the New Covenant, nor the Old Covenant form the basis of "rules and regulations" to produce salvation or life, that only comes through faith in Jesus as Lord and God.  Romans 8 is an excellent read to comprehend the beginning of the Christian walk.  

 

Sorry for the confusion. Thank you for that. The only part that i get a bit hung on is the Spirit that meets the Spirit within. It seems to me they are the same thing... thank you for taking the time to write that. 

Edited July 12, 2015 by Peace

[ronscarpa]

Thanks for the great response Nelg...(+1) Excellent as always...!   

However, I would add a bit regarding the filling & indwelling of the Holy Spirit when one is "born again" and we become a new creation (2 Cor 5:17) & (Rom 8:11), and the "Promise of the Father" (the Baptism of the Holy Spirit) with an endoument of power to continue the works of Christ as His Body in the earth. Here we can continually be filled as well as led by His Spirit. I am among those who believe in a second distinct experience (which can be refreshed) where we are immersed into the power of the Holy Spirit to move as Christ moved and continue the minisry of Christ (Luke 4:18-21 & I Cor 12:1-11 & John 14:10-14).

Good afternoon (at least my time), Peace.  Since this is Ron's thread you might want to address the questions to him.  I know he would probably have a good and sufficient answer.  

 

[Nelg]

Sorry for the confusion. Thank you for that. The only part that i get a bit hung on is the Spirit that meets the Spirit within. It seems to me they are the same thing... thank you for taking the time to write that. 

It does sound a little confusing.  The human being is made up of body [joint and marrow], soul, and spirit (Heb 4:12). Every individual has this from the beginning of life.  But the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God or Christ.  The Spirit of God only comes to dwell in an individual when they experience the new birth where Jesus says that we must be born of water and the Spirit (Jno 3:3-5).  At the moment of new birth is the time the Holy Spirit comes to indwell.  No one can receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit unless they have faith (no longer in unbelief), have repented, and have received remission of sin.  As Paul wrote to Titus, “He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration (forgiveness) and renewing (new birth) by the Holy Spirit (indwelling), whom He poured out upon us (at Pentecost) richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that being justified by His grace (cross) we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life” (*** 3:5-7).  Acts 5:32 states, “And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him.”  The question is two fold: When did God give the Holy Spirit?  The phrase “has given” is past tense and indicates that the Spirit was in the past given.  To whom did He give the Spirit?  Those who obey.  The Spirit is given not to just a few, but to all who obey.  That means you and me.  No one coming to Christ through the “obedience of faith” will be excluded (Rm 1:5; 16:26).

 

To the Thessalonians Paul wrote a rebuke for the impure lives they were living.  He then calls them back to a sanctified and holy walk. The motivating challenge for obedience centers on their accepting or rejecting of the One who placed holiness within them.  “He who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.” (1Thess 4:1-8, esp v. 8). 

Timothy was to “Guard through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, the treasure which has been entrusted to you” (2Tim 1:14).  Paul had just been encouraging Timothy to not be ashamed of the gospel of Christ.  It was this gospel that had been entrusted to Timothy.  It is the Spirit who dwells in Timothy, who gives him the power to guard the word.  The Spirit “dwells” within the individual.

 

John gives an explicit reason by which the child of God can know that God is in him.  It is the indwelling of the Spirit.  “And the one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him.   And we know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit which He has given us” (1Jn 3:24).  In another passage in the same letter John writes, “By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit” (1Jn 4:13). 

 

How do I know the Spirit dwells within me?  The same way that I know anything about he Spirit, or Christ, or the forgiveness of sins, and a thousand other questions presented to me.  Through faith in what God has revealed to me through the Word of God, the Bible. 

[ronscarpa]

Sorry for the confusion. Thank you for that. The only part that i get a bit hung on is the Spirit that meets the Spirit within. It seems to me they are the same thing... thank you for taking the time to write that. 

Hi Peace .... I type with one finger so I take shortcuts in answering, so please bear with me.  

 

Man is a triune being - we are a spirit (1) living in a physical body (2) that has a soul (3). The spirit of man is the spark of life from God, and the part of man that should communicate with Almighty God; but because of sin our spirit is dead to God (I'm excluding the theological exegesis here). Our soul is our personhood or personality - the seat of the will, intellect and reason (also called the mind or the heart of man - pur consciousness). Our soul is what makes each of us unique - think of identical twins as an example, everything is exactly the same, but they each have a distinct personality. The physical body is how we navigate or manifest in the three dimensional world.

 

(Here's an over-simplification) When man was created, our human spirits were in communication with God, and our conciousness (soul) would make the choice to obey the leading of the Spirit of God, and manifest His will in the physical world through our bodies. When man disobeyed, sin entered and our spirits no longer had the communication with God that He originally intended (Lets not discuss God's soverignty) - God said that the soul that sins will die. Sin brought spiritual death, which resulted in physical death.  If we die a physical death while in a state of spiritual death - eternal death is the result.

 

Christ came to deal with spiritual death (only one of many reasons), and offer us the opportunity to be "born again" in the Spirit. When we accept Christ and His atoning sacrifice "by Faith" 1 Corinthians 5:17 says, "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!" (read vv14-21), and Romans 8:11 says, "And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who lives in you." (read vv 8-17). 

 

There is a quickening in us and the Holy Spirit literally indwells the believer, and moves us to holiness and right thinking. We can obey or disobey, but God is at work in us because we gave Him ownership - He took our sin & penalty, and gives us His Spirit and Eternal Life (which is a relationship with God the Father through the atoning work of Jesus Christ - the SON).  I'll avoid discussing Trinitarian doctrine at this point.

 

Blessings to you & Nelg .... RON   

It does sound a little confusing.  The human being is made up of body [joint and marrow], soul, and spirit (Heb 4:12). Every individual has this from the beginning of life.  But the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God or Christ.  The Spirit of God only comes to dwell in an individual when they experience the new birth where Jesus says that we must be born of water and the Spirit (Jno 3:3-5).  At the moment of new birth is the time the Holy Spirit comes to indwell.  No one can receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit unless they have faith (no longer in unbelief), have repented, and have received remission of sin.  As Paul wrote to Titus, “He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration (forgiveness) and renewing (new birth) by the Holy Spirit (indwelling), whom He poured out upon us (at Pentecost) richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that being justified by His grace (cross) we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life” (*** 3:5-7).  Acts 5:32 states, “And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him.”  The question is two fold: When did God give the Holy Spirit?  The phrase “has given” is past tense and indicates that the Spirit was in the past given.  To whom did He give the Spirit?  Those who obey.  The Spirit is given not to just a few, but to all who obey.  That means you and me.  No one coming to Christ through the “obedience of faith” will be excluded (Rm 1:5; 16:26).

 

To the Thessalonians Paul wrote a rebuke for the impure lives they were living.  He then calls them back to a sanctified and holy walk. The motivating challenge for obedience centers on their accepting or rejecting of the One who placed holiness within them.  “He who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.” (1Thess 4:1-8, esp v. 8). 

Timothy was to “Guard through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, the treasure which has been entrusted to you” (2Tim 1:14).  Paul had just been encouraging Timothy to not be ashamed of the gospel of Christ.  It was this gospel that had been entrusted to Timothy.  It is the Spirit who dwells in Timothy, who gives him the power to guard the word.  The Spirit “dwells” within the individual.

 

John gives an explicit reason by which the child of God can know that God is in him.  It is the indwelling of the Spirit.  “And the one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him.   And we know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit which He has given us” (1Jn 3:24).  In another passage in the same letter John writes, “By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit” (1Jn 4:13). 

 

How do I know the Spirit dwells within me?  The same way that I know anything about he Spirit, or Christ, or the forgiveness of sins, and a thousand other questions presented to me.  Through faith in what God has revealed to me through the Word of God, the Bible. 

Good one Nelg (+1)...You had already posted this by the time I finished trying to answer Peace....LOL 

[EagleEye]

Great responses brothers and Ron I agree with you on the second distinct work in the life of a believer...

 

Blessings to all...

[Nelg]

Thanks for the great response Nelg...(+1) Excellent as always...!   

However, I would add a bit regarding the filling & indwelling of the Holy Spirit when one is "born again" and we become a new creation (2 Cor 5:17) & (Rom 8:11), and the "Promise of the Father" (the Baptism of the Holy Spirit) with an endoument of power to continue the works of Christ as His Body in the earth. Here we can continually be filled as well as led by His Spirit. I am among those who believe in a second distinct experience (which can be refreshed) where we are immersed into the power of the Holy Spirit to move as Christ moved and continue the minisry of Christ (Luke 4:18-21 & I Cor 12:1-11 & John 14:10-14).

Hi Ron.  

I know what you are saying.  However, I would like you to consider a couple of things regarding this subject.  It may seem like I am "knit picking" with the discussion, but after I had this all unraveled and delineated some of the terms used regarding the Spirit, here is what I found.  

1.  The "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" is not found in the text of the Bible.  It is always "baptism with/in the Holy Spirit."  That is consistent throughout the NT.  

2.  The "indwelling of the Holy Spirit" is the Spirit coming to live within the believer.  As such He is the seal of our redemption and the giver of the power to live the Christian life.  The "baptism with the Spirit" on Pentecost made the indwelling a reality for the saints.  It happened only one time in the history of mankind.  The "power from the Spirit" and "filling of the Spirit" happened many times before and after Pentecost, but these are not connected with the "Promise of the Father" or "Baptism with the Holy Spirit."

3.  The "filling with the Spirit" is a term that means that one is influenced by the Spirit supernaturally and miraculously.  However, the "filling with the Spirit" took place even before the Spirit was given to indwell.  Thus, individuals could be filled with the Spirit even during the OT period.  Ie. Bezalel (Ex. 31:1-5), and even during the time of Christ (Lk 1:41, 67). Then of course there are the "fillings of the Spirit" after the "pouring out of the Spirit" at Pentecost.

4.  The Spirit "fell upon" or "came upon" a person is much like the "filling."  It is the Spirit giving power or influencing someone to do what the Spirit wanted them to do.  Thus the Spirit "came upon" or "fell upon" Ezekiel (Ezk. 11:5). This is what happened at the household of Cornelius, the first Gentile converts (Acts 10:44).  They, the Gentiles, received the "Baptism with the Spirit" at Pentecost, or the Promise of the Father was made available to them at that moment.  When Peter preached to them, the Spirit gave them the gift of tongues and prophecy to convince these Jewish Christians that the Spirit (indwelling) was for the Gentile as well as the Jews.  ("because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles also." - Perfect, indicative, passive verb, meaning that the Spirit "had been poured out," a completely action at one point in the past, upon the Gentiles.)  That one point in the past was Pentecost, and the Jewish brethren that were there are being reminded of that event.  Therefore, Peter ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.  It was at that point that they received the "promise" (Act 2:38; 5:32; Gal 3:14).

5. The 1Cor 12:1-13 and Romans 14 are good companion passages that speak of the miraculous and non-miraculous [supernatural] gifts from the Spirit of God.  These gifts do not come by a "baptism in the Spirit," but by the Spirits gifting individuals just as He wills (1Cor 12:4-7).  The gifts are for the common good of the body of Christ.  

Being "led by the Spirit" is the continuing process of "walking by the Spirit" of Christ.  

6.  Jno 14:10-20 speaks of the disciples receiving the Spirit to indwell them as a representative of the Godhead.  At the same time it is Christ's Spirit who is come to dwell within them.  Powerful passage that depicts the potential of the saints when we allow God to work within and through us.  

7.   The experience of a "filling with the Spirit" is not a "second blessing" but a continued blessing that the Christian can receive again and again as they yield themselves to walking after the Spirit.  I am "filled with the Spirit" every time I start praising God and glorifying His name, or when I serve Him in some capacity as the Spirit directs.  Personally, I don't see how a saint can function without their life being "filled" every day.  

I pray that for your life.  

 

Just some things for you to consider.  

 

We are quick on the trigger tonight!  LOL.  

 

I like your response Ron.  It is great.  I think we are paralleling each other.  

[Peace]

Hi Peace .... I type with one finger so I take shortcuts in answering, so please bear with me.  

 

Thank you for your time.

 

Man is a triune being - we are a spirit (1) living in a physical body (2) that has a soul (3). The spirit of man is the spark of life from God, and the part of man that should communicate with Almighty God; but because of sin our spirit is dead to God (I'm excluding the theological exegesis here). Our soul is our personhood or personality - the seat of the will, intellect and reason (also called the mind or the heart of man - pur consciousness). Our soul is what makes each of us unique - think of identical twins as an example, everything is exactly the same, but they each have a distinct personality. The physical body is how we navigate or manifest in the three dimensional world.

 

The distinctions here are awesome. I'm so happy you related it like you did. I have been reading all sorts of things on spirit, soul and consciousness and I only wish I could have gleaned this much earlier than now. 

 

(Here's an over-simplification) When man was created, our human spirits were in communication with God, and our conciousness (soul) would make the choice to obey the leading of the Spirit of God, and manifest His will in the physical world through our bodies. When man disobeyed, sin entered and our spirits no longer had the communication with God that He originally intended (Lets not discuss God's soverignty) - God said that the soul that sins will die. Sin brought spiritual death, which resulted in physical death.  If we die a physical death while in a state of spiritual death - eternal death is the result.

 

 

Am I correct in saying that the spirit guides the soul?

 

Christ came to deal with spiritual death (only one of many reasons), and offer us the opportunity to be "born again" in the Spirit. When we accept Christ and His atoning sacrifice "by Faith" 1 Corinthians 5:17 says, "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!" (read vv14-21), and Romans 8:11 says, "And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who lives in you." (read vv 8-17). 

 

So by saying I have faith or belief in him is when the spirit is reignited? 

 

There is a quickening in us and the Holy Spirit literally indwells the believer, and moves us to holiness and right thinking. We can obey or disobey, but God is at work in us because we gave Him ownership - He took our sin & penalty, and gives us His Spirit and Eternal Life (which is a relationship with God the Father through the atoning work of Jesus Christ - the SON).  I'll avoid discussing Trinitarian doctrine at this point.

 

Exciting stuff i will have to read the Trinitarian Doctrine. Have you read or know anything about the Christ Blueprint: The 13 Keys to Christ Consciousness. I have that and so far I am amazed at what is in it. Just wondered if you have an opinion on that.

Blessings to you & Nelg .... RON   

Good one Nelg (+1)...You had already posted this by the time I finished trying to answer Peace....LOL 

 

 

 

Luke 4:18-21 & I Cor 12:1-11 & John 14:10-14 I look forward to reading these. Thank you for your time. 

 

 How can i tell if it is by soul or spirit that i'm being led? I have been going through an existential crisis...   i myself am trying to align with the divine (but i find it difficult) VERY ... In my life at 33, I can only tell myself "what not to do" ...it seems every lesson has been difficult. Everything i thought i was doing, i thought was based off of good and sound judgement but turns out i'm tired and no longer really know the difference between whats really right or wrong... and this is exactly where i seem to be stuck at in my life. My decisions end up casting back hard lessons (which i thought inititially were good)... What do you say to people who can't seem to shake certain baggage like worry and control and anger. I find these are challenging because for me these crop up to fill my mind...and it hurts!!!!!!! I can see how it manifests i just don't know how to unmanifest it?!

 

Ron Nelg and Everyone on here thanks, i already feel immensely better. Thanks for the Blessings. and i hope you all are blessed.  

 

[Peace]

Good day Everyone.

 

" How can i tell if it is by soul or spirit that i'm being led? "

 

I googled this and came across the holy spirit and ego and this was really great!! WONDERFUL READ. It talks about how the Holy Spirit is not a commanding voice and how to tell if it's ego. and the fight between the two. oh my my this is the gem that i have been searching for.

 

http://www.circleofa.org/library/articles/how-can-we-distinguish-between-the-ego-and-the-holy-spirit/       

 

i just pulled this tiny excerpt... but isn't that awesome!!

 

Recognizing the Holy Spirit's Voice May Take Time

Learning to recognize the Holy Spirit's voice is, for most people, a life-long process. The Course tells us: "Only very few can hear God's Voice at all, and even they cannot communicate His messages directly through the Spirit which gave them" (M-12.3:3). So hearing the Holy Spirit is not something we hear about and do, without any effort or training, the next day. A lot of people think they hear God's Voice; "only very few" actually do.

Even Jesus tells us that learning to hear only God's Voice was his final lesson, the last thing he learned! He says:

The Holy Spirit is in you in a very literal sense. His is the Voice that calls you back to where you were before and will be again. It is possible even in this world to hear only that Voice and no other. It takes effort and great willingness to learn. It is the final lesson that I learned, and God's Sons are as equal as learners as they are as sons 

(T-5.II.3:7-11)

.

These lines are simultaneously discouraging and encouraging. They are discouraging in that they let us know hearing only the Holy Spirit is not easy. Learning to hear only that Voice "takes effort and great willingness to learn." Not only that, but it was also Jesus' final lesson, so it isn't something elementary, something we can learn quickly. It takes a while! However, on the encouraging side, Jesus points out that we are his equals as learners, and therefore, if he learned it, we too can learn it.

 

i was also inquiring on heavy emotions like guilt, and i have personally already realized that when i blame it's because im blaming MYSELF! i started reading about projection in the Christ Blueprint and so to see this excerpt was really EMPOWERING...

 

Negative Reactions to God's Voice

Sometimes we have what seem to be negative reactions to the Voice for God. This occurs when we are genuinely hearing guidance from the Holy Spirit, but we are allowing our egos to hear and respond to it. Although the Holy Spirit never commands, if we are hearing Him with our egos, it will seem to us that we are being asked to do something against our will. Prayerful self-examination at such times will usually reveal that we really do want what the Holy Spirit is asking us to do; only our ego or our independent self, which insanely wants autonomy at all costs, feels imposed upon.

The Course also speaks of a kind of false guilt that can arise in us as we listen to God's Voice. This is to be expected in a mind that has not wholly lost its fear of God. For instance, when we begin to realize that our projection of guilt upon the world is a mistake, and that the guilt we are seeing is in fact our own, "the beginning phases of this reversal are often quite painful, for as blame is withdrawn from without, there is a strong tendency to harbor it within" (T-11.IV.4:5). Some people have even stopped reading the Course (few students would question that the Course itself is an expression of the Holy Spirit) on the grounds that "It makes me feel guilty." The Course's own answer to this kind of false guilt is quite simple:

…only the ego blames at all. Self-blame is therefore ego identification, and as much an ego defense as blaming others 

(T-11.IV.5:4-5)

.

In other words, give up the guilt. Guilt is always an indication of the ego. You may be thinking that you are feeling guilty because you are listening to the Holy Spirit, but if you are feeling guilty, you are listening to the ego. It isn't what the Holy Spirit is saying that gives rise to guilt; it is your own ego's interpretation of it. The Holy Spirit may be saying, "Your loss of peace is not your brother's fault; you, yourself have chosen to give up peace." If that seems to make you feel guilty, however, it is only because your ego is telling you so; the Holy Spirit never blames, and never condemns

[Peace]

"Your loss of peace is not your brother's fault; you, yourself have chosen to give up peace." If that seems to make you feel guilty, however, it is only because your ego is telling you so; the Holy Spirit never blames, and never condemns


wow. So that is how to tell when your operating within Spirit.
 

[ronscarpa]

Peace & Nelg,

 

Sorry I haven't finished commenting, but I'm preparing to leave for Moscow tonight to minister for 10 days, and I've been running like a chicken w/o a head...LOL.

Please feel free to call me on my cell {7.0.2.8.8.3.6.6.0.5} any time today (Monday, 13 July), and I will be happy to discuss or clarirfy what I have written, or answer any questions you might have.

 

Be Blessed, RON   

[ronscarpa]

Luke 4:18-21 & I Cor 12:1-11 & John 14:10-14 I look forward to reading these. Thank you for your time. 

 

How can i tell if it is by soul or spirit that i'm being led? I have been going through an existential crisis...   i myself am trying to align with the divine (but i find it difficult) VERY ... In my life at 33, I can only tell myself "what not to do" ...it seems every lesson has been difficult. Everything i thought i was doing, i thought was based off of good and sound judgement but turns out i'm tired and no longer really know the difference between whats really right or wrong... and this is exactly where i seem to be stuck at in my life. My decisions end up casting back hard lessons (which i thought inititially were good)... What do you say to people who can't seem to shake certain baggage like worry and control and anger. I find these are challenging because for me these crop up to fill my mind...and it hurts!!!!!!! I can see how it manifests i just don't know how to unmanifest it?!

 

Ron Nelg and Everyone on here thanks, i already feel immensely better. Thanks for the Blessings. and i hope you all are blessed.  

 

 Call me as suggested and I can answer the questions you asked in the text I had posted that are not reflected here {7.0.2.8.8.3.6.6.0.5}...RON

[Peace]

Peace & Nelg,

 

Sorry I haven't finished commenting, but I'm preparing to leave for Moscow tonight to minister for 10 days, and I've been running like a chicken w/o a head...LOL.

Please feel free to call me on my cell {7.0.2.8.8.3.6.6.0.5} any time today (Monday, 13 July), and I will be happy to discuss or clarirfy what I have written, or answer any questions you might have.

 

Be Blessed, RON   

Thank you. I hope your trip to Moscow is loaded with all the good feelings... compassion and love and BLESSINGS

[Peace]

 Call me as suggested and I can answer the questions you asked in the text I had posted that are not reflected here {7.0.2.8.8.3.6.6.0.5}...RON

 

I came across a link that really shed the light on the difference between the ego and spirit, basically the holy spirit is not commanding. so if we hear a commanding voice than that is a sign of ego. then it goes on to describe the duality of ego. really great stuff. and it had an answer for grief and guilt and basically if it makes us feel guilty within it is not of GOD.   guilt i have been feeling i already knew was my own, and it said as we start recognizing that that it's basically very painful experience. so thats comforting            have a DELIGHTFUL trip.

 

http://www.circleofa.org/library/articles/how-can-we-distinguish-between-the-ego-and-the-holy-spirit/

[Nelg]

Peace & Nelg,

 

Sorry I haven't finished commenting, but I'm preparing to leave for Moscow tonight to minister for 10 days, and I've been running like a chicken w/o a head...LOL.

Please feel free to call me on my cell {7.0.2.8.8.3.6.6.0.5} any time today (Monday, 13 July), and I will be happy to discuss or clarirfy what I have written, or answer any questions you might have.

 

Be Blessed, RON   

Have a great and blessed trip.  Have not been to Moscow and would like to go before I leave this world.