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Indiana boycott urged after state passes 'anti-***' law


umbertino
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There are too many of you to reply to.  Look, either you believe and follow all of the old testament or none of it.  If God's word is so clear as you guys state it is, then throw away all your clothes made of more than one material, never eat shellfish, sew only the same seeds in your fields, etc, etc.  Are you guys honestly so dense as to believe that it's a choice to be homosexual, bisexual, or otherwise?  You really think someone just wakes up one morning and thinks "Gee, I think I wanna be ridiculed, unaccepted, and hated today."  Absolutely not.  I had a friend who committed suicide because people like you made him feel like he's a monster.  You think someone chooses to feel that way?  Go ahead and cite your "Jesus this" and "Jesus that" and "it's unnatural" and all that BS, because it's garbage like this that makes me ashamed to be a Christian.  You pick and choose from the Bible what's easy to follow, and because you never experienced it, it's easy to just tell someone that they have a problem.  Hatred is easy to express.  Love, care, and understanding takes someone with real guts.  

To do the right thing it always takes guts. My younger brother committed suicide several years ago and nothing tears a family apart like that. Still no answers as to why. But the real monster is Satan because he is the one who destroys lives. Not God, and not Christians. At least not real Christians. There are many who claim to be but God knows who they are. And he will deal with them. We are commanded to go out and spread the gospel. People don't feel comfortable hearing the truth and often times lash out and lump every one into the same boat in an effort to justify their actions. You can read Proverbs 1 to find out about that one.The bible is divided into two parts. The Old Testament is a history of what happened when a people chose to obey or disobey God. The New Testament is a new beginning because both Jews and Gentiles could not live up to those laws. If you are ashamed of it then it is you that has the problem because Christ is reaching out to every one including you but you are rejecting what he did on the cross. He died to set people free so that they can freely choose. Many however choose the continue living in their sins.

 

Romans 3 New King James Version (NKJV)

God’s Judgment Defended

3 What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God. For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written:

“That You may be justified in Your words,

And may overcome when You are judged.”

But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unjust who inflicts wrath? (I speak as a man.) Certainly not! For then how will God judge the world?

For if the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just.

All Have Sinned

What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.

10 As it is written:

“There is none righteous, no, not one;

11 There is none who understands;

There is none who seeks after God.

12 They have all turned aside;

They have together become unprofitable;

There is none who does good, no, not one.”

13 “Their throat is an open tomb;

With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;

“The poison of asps is under their lips”;

14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”

15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;

17 And the way of peace they have not known.”

18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

God’s Righteousness Through Faith

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[h] who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Boasting Excluded

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

 

Romans 6 New King James Version (NKJV)

Dead to Sin, Alive to God

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

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There are too many of you to reply to.  Look, either you believe and follow all of the old testament or none of it.  If God's word is so clear as you guys state it is, then throw away all your clothes made of more than one material, never eat shellfish, sew only the same seeds in your fields, etc, etc.  Are you guys honestly so dense as to believe that it's a choice to be homosexual, bisexual, or otherwise?  You really think someone just wakes up one morning and thinks "Gee, I think I wanna be ridiculed, unaccepted, and hated today."  Absolutely not.  I had a friend who committed suicide because people like you made him feel like he's a monster.  You think someone chooses to feel that way?  Go ahead and cite your "Jesus this" and "Jesus that" and "it's unnatural" and all that BS, because it's garbage like this that makes me ashamed to be a Christian.  You pick and choose from the Bible what's easy to follow, and because you never experienced it, it's easy to just tell someone that they have a problem.  Hatred is easy to express.  Love, care, and understanding takes someone with real guts.  

 

Christians aren't chained to the OLD Testament Laws because we live under the New Covenant with Jesus.  You need to drop that line of thinking, because it is making you look like you don't understand what Jesus did for you.

 

If you agree it is a sin to have sex before marriage, then you should also agree it is wrong for two men or two women to have sexual relations with each other.  We all have urges one way or the other that are sinful, its the act and continual thought of doing that act that is sin. 

 

I was addicted to pornography for most of my life.  It was my choice to open the magazine, it was my choice to go to the websites.  It was my choice to think about it in the shower. These are all conscious and deliberate acts. It wasn't until 4 or 5 years ago, all glory to God, I was able to overcome that addiction.  It finally came down to who do I love most, my sin or Jesus.  I chose Jesus who broke my bondage to my sin. I praise his mighty Name!

 

Homosexual sin is the same way.  It's not genetics that forces someone to commit sin.  It is a conscious act.  Free will.  What you are suggesting, is they can't help themselves.  People aren't born in someone's bedroom in a compromising position. They chose to be there. They chose to take off their clothes.  You get the idea.

 

It is the same thing between unmarried people.  For instance, I chose to sleep with prostitutes and married women and I LIKED IT!  I wasn't proud of it.  It wasn't genetic, but I can argue, I and many other people were born that way to excuse it.

 

I'm sorry to hear about your friend, but let me ask you.  How many times did you tell them about Jesus?  How many times did you pray with that person to help them with their issues?  Everyone needs Jesus in their lives to help them overcome the evil one and their sinful natures, otherwise, they are chained to their sin.

 

I'm attaching a link to an article that gives a good synopsis of the issue.  If you really want to understand the issue take some time to read it.

 

A Christian Perspective on Homosexuality

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Go ahead and justify your bigotry.  I don't have a problem.  It's not rocket science.  It's either you believe and follow ALL of it, or NONE of it.  

Proverbs 1 New King James Version (NKJV) The Beginning of Knowledge

1 The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel:

To know wisdom and instruction,

To perceive the words of understanding,

To receive the instruction of wisdom,

Justice, judgment, and equity;

To give prudence to the simple,

To the young man knowledge and discretion—

A wise man will hear and increase learning,

And a man of understanding will attain wise counsel,

To understand a proverb and an enigma,

The words of the wise and their riddles.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge,

But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Shun Evil Counsel

My son, hear the instruction of your father,

And do not forsake the law of your mother;

For they will be a graceful ornament on your head,

And chains about your neck.

10 My son, if sinners entice you,

Do not consent.

11 If they say, “Come with us,

Let us lie in wait to shed blood;

Let us lurk secretly for the innocent without cause;

12 Let us swallow them alive like Sheol,

And whole, like those who go down to the Pit;

13 We shall find all kinds of precious possessions,

We shall fill our houses with spoil;

14 Cast in your lot among us,

Let us all have one purse”—

15 My son, do not walk in the way with them,

Keep your foot from their path;

16 For their feet run to evil,

And they make haste to shed blood.

17 Surely, in vain the net is spread

In the sight of any bird;

18 But they lie in wait for their own blood,

They lurk secretly for their own lives.

19 So are the ways of everyone who is greedy for gain;

It takes away the life of its owners.

The Call of Wisdom

20 Wisdom calls aloud outside;

She raises her voice in the open squares.

21 She cries out in the chief concourses,

At the openings of the gates in the city

She speaks her words:

22 “How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity?

For scorners delight in their scorning,

And fools hate knowledge.

23 Turn at my rebuke;

Surely I will pour out my spirit on you;

I will make my words known to you.

24 Because I have called and you refused,

I have stretched out my hand and no one regarded,

25 Because you disdained all my counsel,

And would have none of my rebuke,

26 I also will laugh at your calamity;

I will mock when your terror comes,

27 When your terror comes like a storm,

And your destruction comes like a whirlwind,

When distress and anguish come upon you.

28 “Then they will call on me, but I will not answer;

They will seek me diligently, but they will not find me.

29 Because they hated knowledge

And did not choose the fear of the Lord,

30 They would have none of my counsel

And despised my every rebuke.

31 Therefore they shall eat the fruit of their own way,

And be filled to the full with their own fancies.

32 For the turning away of the simple will slay them,

And the complacency of fools will destroy them;

33 But whoever listens to me will dwell safely,

And will be secure, without fear of evil.”

 

 

You are right. It is not rocket science.

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There are too many of you to reply to.  Look, either you believe and follow all of the old testament or none of it.  If God's word is so clear as you guys state it is, then throw away all your clothes made of more than one material, never eat shellfish, sew only the same seeds in your fields, etc, etc.  Are you guys honestly so dense as to believe that it's a choice to be homosexual, bisexual, or otherwise?  You really think someone just wakes up one morning and thinks "Gee, I think I wanna be ridiculed, unaccepted, and hated today."  Absolutely not.  I had a friend who committed suicide because people like you made him feel like he's a monster.  You think someone chooses to feel that way?  Go ahead and cite your "Jesus this" and "Jesus that" and "it's unnatural" and all that BS, because it's garbage like this that makes me ashamed to be a Christian.  You pick and choose from the Bible what's easy to follow, and because you never experienced it, it's easy to just tell someone that they have a problem.  Hatred is easy to express.  Love, care, and understanding takes someone with real guts.  

Believing the OT as inspired revelation and make them applicable for today is another thing.  Yukon, I find most of your statements indicate that you know very little about the Bible, the establishment of the New Covenant, the grace and mercy of God, the difference between religious laws imposed by mankind, and biblical and moral laws established by God.  But you are not the only one.  Several on this thread have the same problem.  I suggest you get a better understanding of the Bible and Christ's love and grace before making your criticism.  

Morally, the biblical teaching includes homosexuality as porniea, a word which includes all sexual sins.  Sins being those things that fall short of the holiness of God.  Civil laws do not establish what is moral or immoral, God does.  It is God's holiness that determines the sinfulness of an action, ritual, or belief, and that's why a correct study of the Bible is necessary.  

You have been very vocal about referring to others as bigots, homophobics, haters, and judgmental.  And, there may be individuals here who fall into those categories.  But don't the individuals who are trying to impose their will on those who want the country to allow a sinful lifestyle and accept that lifestyle has right and holy?  Isn't that bigotry? Judgmental? Intolerant?  Yes, it is.  

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I don't care any more at this point.  This site is full of people set in their old fashioned ways.  There's nothing wrong with that, but to ridicule and make human beings feel less of themselves because of something they can't help is sick.  Sin is something you commit willfully.  Being ***, bi, or otherwise is not a choice.  

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I don't care any more at this point.  This site is full of people set in their old fashioned ways.  There's nothing wrong with that, but to ridicule and make human beings feel less of themselves because of something they can't help is sick.  Sin is something you commit willfully.  Being ***, bi, or otherwise is not a choice.  

 

Love the Noun, hate the verb.

 

2 Timothy 4:3 (NASB)

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,

 

.

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To sin is to willfully commit to it.  As I said, it's not a choice, therefore, it's not a sin.  

 

You really did just say that... 

 

You really need to read this article: 

 

A Christian Perspective on Homosexuality

 

"...

Now this has enormous implications. For one thing, it means that the whole debate about whether homosexuality is something you were born with or is a result of how you were raised really doesn’t matter in the end. The important thing is not how you got your orientation, but what you do with it. Some defenders of homosexuality are very anxious to prove that your genes, not your upbringing, determine if you’re homosexual because then homosexual behavior is normal and right. But this conclusion doesn’t follow at all. Just because you’re genetically disposed to some behavior doesn’t mean that behavior is morally right. To give an example, some researchers suspect there may be a gene which predisposes some people to alcoholism. Does that mean that it’s all right for someone with such predisposition to go ahead and drink to his heart’s content and become an alcoholic? Obviously not! If anything, it ought to alert him to abstain from alcohol so as to prevent this from happening. Now the sober truth of the matter is that we don’t fully understand the roles of heredity and environment in producing homosexuality. But that doesn’t really matter. Even if homosexuality were completely genetic, that fact alone still wouldn’t make it any different than a birth defect, like a cleft palate or epilepsy. That doesn’t mean it’s normal and that we shouldn’t try to correct it.

 

If any case, whether homosexuality results from genetics or upbringing, people don’t generally choose to be homosexual. Many homosexuals testify how agonizing it is to find yourself with these desires and to fight against them, and they’ll tell you they would never choose to be that way. And the Bible doesn’t condemn a person because he has a homosexual orientation. What it condemns is homosexual acts. It is perfectly possible to be a homosexual and be a born-again, Spirit-filled Christian.

 

Just as an alcoholic who is dry will still stand up at an AA meeting and say, “I am an alcoholic,” so a homosexual who is living straight and keeping himself pure ought to be able to stand up in a prayer meeting and say, “I am a homosexual. But by God’s grace and the power of the Holy Spirit, I’m living chastely for Christ.” And I hope we’d have the courage and love to welcome him or her as a brother or sister in Christ.

..."

Read more: http://www.reasonablefaith.org/a-christian-perspective-on-homosexuality#ixzz3VslrzdRQ

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That's easy for you to say.  You don't have to live with the agony.  Just shove people off like they're misfits, make them feel like there's something wrong with them.  So you're comparing alcoholics to a group who literally have zero choice?  The only issues homosexuals face is intolerance, and that's something that isn't their fault.  

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I don't care any more at this point.  This site is full of people set in their old fashioned ways.  There's nothing wrong with that, but to ridicule and make human beings feel less of themselves because of something they can't help is sick.  Sin is something you commit willfully.  Being ***, bi, or otherwise is not a choice.  

If we go on winning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.  Heb 10:26

 

That's why I said that you did not understand the Scripture, the Bible.  

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That's easy for you to say.  You don't have to live with the agony.  Just shove people off like they're misfits, make them feel like there's something wrong with them.  So you're comparing alcoholics to a group who literally have zero choice?  The only issues homosexuals face is intolerance, and that's something that isn't their fault.  

 

I can't believe you are continuing in this line of discussion.  They DO have a choice.  Zero choice means they cannot control their bodies and they're robotic.  Two homosexuals walk by one another and they automatically start having sex with each other.  It's like their pants automatically are unzipped and fall to the ground and they just start going at it.  But we both know that is not what happens. They choose to engage in the act, when they can also choose not to.

 

.

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That's easy for you to say.  You don't have to live with the agony.  Just shove people off like they're misfits, make them feel like there's something wrong with them.  So you're comparing alcoholics to a group who literally have zero choice?  The only issues homosexuals face is intolerance, and that's something that isn't their fault.  

There is always a choice.  

Satan uses the desires of the flesh to tempt and enslave individuals.  The natural desires that are in all of us, even Jesus, does not mean that we were born to sin.  Jesus was in all points tempted just like us, but He did not make a choice to sin.  We have the same choice.  Once we decide to sin, sin becomes more and more entrenched in our mind and we are made to "think" that we were "born to be this way" and have not choice.  That is a lie of Satan and our own mind that justifies our actions.  

YOU DO HAVE A CHOICE.  SIN IS ALWAYS A CHOICE . . . BUT SO IS OBEDIENCE TO GOD AND LIVING RIGHTEOUSLY.  

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You're making it sound like being a homosexual is all about randomly hooking up with people on the street.  That's absolutely perverse and false.  They DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE TO FEEL ANY OTHER WAY.  How can it be a sin if you literally can't help it?  

 

You haven't read the article, the statistics say otherwise. Also, having feelings is one thing, but acting on those feelings is another.  By your reasoning, there is nothing wrong with a Pedophile acting out on his feelings either.

 

.

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Oh don't you even go there.  You guys ALWAYS go there.  Two consenting adults should be allowed the same rights as everyone else.  Pedophilia is a CRIME.  Criminal activity is absolutely a no-go.  That closed minded Christian article has no credible information.  You've got it bass ackwards, buddy.  A lot, if not most of my friends are LGBT and they're just as loving and caring toward their partner as the next straight couple.  

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To sin is to willfully commit to it.  As I said, it's not a choice, therefore, it's not a sin.  

As I said before, your argument is with God. Play the hate or race card all you want. No where in the bible does God compare race except to distinguish between Jews and Gentiles. But the bible does talk about sexual sins. Sodom and Gomorrah where destroyed for that reason. What you are saying is that God was wrong in what He did and He therefore owes them an apology. You read for yourself what Romans said unless you completely blow it off because you did not like what it said. The fact is that it is a choice. Same as alcoholism. Yes alcoholism is a sickness and those caught up in that sickness will go through withdrawals but they have to make the choice that it is better to be sober than to destroy their lives. All of your arguments are baseless because Christ made them baseless. Not because I or any other Christian made them so. We don't have the power to do so because we are not the  ones who went to the cross to do so.  The Old Testament had only one way to cover sins. That was sacrificing for atonement. The New Testament is the same way. Only with the New Testament it does not require continued sacrifice. One sacrifice and the shedding of blood by Christ is more powerful than all of the Old Testament sacrifices put together. But the one thing that it cannot take away is free will.

Edited by darwinatridge
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Oh don't you even go there.  You guys ALWAYS go there.  Two consenting adults should be allowed the same rights as everyone else.  Pedophilia is a CRIME.  Criminal activity is absolutely a no-go.  That closed minded Christian article has no credible information.  You've got it bass ackwards, buddy.  A lot, if not most of my friends are LGBT and they're just as loving and caring toward their partner as the next straight couple.  

 

Sodomy is a crime.  We are also not talking about rights, we are talking about what constitutes sin.  Also, that closed minded Christian presented a balanced argument.  There is also NOTHING wrong with being loving and caring and we ALL should strive to be so.  The issue is sexual sin that is being committed.  You go back and stick your head in the sand and think you're on the righteous path, because it is obvious to me that you are trying to justify something in your own mind to make yourself feel better about it.  Unfortunately for you, the scriptures don't agree with you.

 

"...

First, if you are a homosexual or feel that inclination, keep yourself pure. If you are unmarried, you should practice abstinence from all sexual activity. I know this is difficult, but really what God is asking you to do is pretty much the same thing that he requires of all single people. That means not only keeping your body pure, but especially your mind. Just as heterosexual men should avoid pornography and fantasizing, you, too, need to keep your thought-life clean. Resist the temptation to rationalize sin by saying, “God made me this way.” God has made it very clear that He does not want you to indulge your desires, but to honor Him by keeping your mind and body pure. Finally, seek professional Christian counseling. With time and effort, you can come to enjoy normal, heterosexual relations with your spouse. There is hope.

 

Second, for those of us who are heterosexual, we need to remember that being homosexual is as such no sin. Most homosexuals did not choose such an orientation and would like to change it if they could. We need to accept and lovingly support brothers and sisters who are struggling with this problem. And in general, we need to extend God’s love to homosexual people. Vulgar words or jokes about homosexuals should never pass the lips of a Christian. If you find yourself feeling glad when some affliction befalls a homosexual person or you find feelings of hatred welling up in your heart toward homosexual people, then you need to reflect long and hard on the words of Jesus recorded in Matthew: “it will be more tolerable on the Day of Judgement for Sodom and Gomorrah than for you” (Mt. 10.15; 11.24).

..."

Read more: http://www.reasonablefaith.org/a-christian-perspective-on-homosexuality#ixzz3VszDnxVo

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Then

 

Nope.  Not a choice.  End of story.  Arguing with homophobes is like arguing with anti gunners.  You can try, try, and try to educate, but nothing you can say will change minds.  I'm done here.  

Then I hope that you enjoy your life here on earth because those who continue to live in their sin are in for a really hot time.

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Nope.  Not a choice.  End of story.  Arguing with homophobes is like arguing with anti gunners.  You can try, try, and try to educate, but nothing you can say will change minds.  I'm done here.  

 

1 John 1:7-9 (NLT)

 

But if we are living in the light, as God is in the light, then we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.

 

If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth. But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness.

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