aaronofnero

If you'd like to discuss grammar, your post would otherwise need to read: "There is just one period in that long run-on sentence. It's called grammar, my friend, and I don't believe you." It is improper to start a sentence with the word "and," and you have to establish what "Just" is referring to since there is no verb in that portion of your sentence. Also, the use of ellipsis ("...") is generally for the omission of a word, phrase, sentence, or segment in an original quote. It can often be used for an unfinished / incomplete thought, but is improper to use as a simple "pause" in your speech. My point is not to further the criticism of literacy, but rather that we ought not to be so particular about what is posted in the rumors forum. Please carry some consideration for those who are active on this message forum. I acknowledge that I am a new participant here, but It shows lack of discipline and maturity to bash someone for their input, when they meant no harm by such content they choose to provide. I see no fault in someone lending their daily involvement with this investment. We should encourage the community to share, even if it is simple hearsay, despite it being potentially inaccurate. It is certainly appropriate to correct someone when they can be proven or questioned for providing careless or false information, but not to condescend them for attempting to be inclusive. We're all susceptible to mistakes and misguidance.

that's an extremely valuable point.

I will say this though, there is some merit to a LOP in the event that the country is borrowing money solely to circulate into their economy through labor laws, minimum wage, insurance policies, grant programs for business incentives, income tax and sales tax laws/increases, international trade agreements and furthered governmental programs and policies. However, this would be quite extensive, and with everyone who's got some say about something over how decisions are made there, I don't think any of this could realistically be achieved in a reasonable time frame. Also, when you borrow a large amount of money, you gotta pay that back with interest, as we all know. But why borrow money and do all this when you could create your own "federal reserve" just like we have so comfortably done, and keep all the debt in-country. Well, I have a good feeling greed and power play a huge part of these decisions, and not only from those in Iraq. It seems much easier to allow an RV, increasing the fiat money supply (since fiat money is only worth what was used to make it if there is no resource material or government policy behind it), and allow the economy to grow just by the spawned wealth and consumer interest in spending the Dinar since more of it would be in circulation there. The only thing I can see holding up this process are the laws that have to go into effect to maintain the transitional costs of supplies, services, products and labor in the event of an RV. This way, that apple that once cost 1000 dinar doesn't end up being equivalent to 1000 USD. In this case, you could assume an "lop" applies to services and supply, but an RV reflects the currency stimulus that comes into play. So, let's consider a man who runs a business of selling apples and makes, lets say, the equivalent of $6,000 USD a year (around 7 million dinar... he has some of the healthiest, most desirable of apples). All of the sudden his $6,000 worth becomes $7 million, but the cost of his apple has to be lopped from 1000 dinar to 1 dinar.. well, that may seem discouraging, until he sees that he's now selling 10 or 20 times as many apples a day. All of the sudden he has to hire more people, keep up with the demand of people wanting to buy apples, and find a location to be able to service all these people who want his tasty apples! how is he going to afford to do that? well, he's 6.994 million dollars richer, so I think he just might have a way. Oh, and if people love his apples that much, why not bring in board some oranges and kiwi? Plenty of money to take a risk there and improve business even further. All of the sudden, you have a blooming economy. Okay, i do realize there is a bit of a utopian factor to that analogy.. but, in the essence of a LOP versus an RV, part of me wants to believe there are entirely too many cooks in the kitchen and it would be more of a success to apply an RV to encourage an economic stimulus and appeal to other countries for imports, exports and established trade internationally. Politics are a bit more ruthless than an individual wanting to take money from a bank and build up his business internally and just pay back that bank later on. In politics, it seems as though if you're going to need financial help or support from another country.. they're going to want to know just exactly what all you're going to do with the help they provide, and if you could ever use that help against them in the future. It's a game of dominance and control, despite how much morality you'd like to think truly exists. If Iraq's economy is going to grow from the fruits of other countries, like the US, then you better believe the US has some say as to how Iraq's growth will benefit our government or economic system. with an LOP, i feel like there would be an extreme amount of pressure from varying sides politically, and it would only harvest more stress and debate with little conclusion. Sure we would be pretty bummed on a LOP, and in the event of a LOP, Iraq could still hypothetically survive and grow.. but with an RV, everyone is benefiting - not just us. Sure, it seems like an easy investment dream, but it puts more money into circulation internationally through exchange. Now, is this morally a good idea? To magically push even more currency into existence? Probably not. But, that's an entirely different debate. Again, this is just my perspective.. and i'm not an individual with a degree in economics. Just someone who likes to read a good bit and be as logical as possible. Sorry if I come off sort of scatter-brained. There are so many details to these sorts of issues.

Edit: I meant to include the point in the first sentence in my comment above that their is a limited supply of gold that has a high demand, which creates its value, versus Dinar and USD which are just paper given a specific value, and the demand is a reflection of what all you can obtain with that paper. As it stands, the USD is worth more because you have more options to purchase with the use of it over the limitations of owning a Dinar.

But that's the problem.. you've reduced what "hypothetically could be" if they HAD to exchange a 25,000 dinar note for twenty-five thousand 1 dinar notes in the event of an RV or RI. This is all still fiat currency, it's not like they're all of the sudden creating 25,000 pieces of gold out of a single 25k note, but each piece of gold to be inherently equal to a 1k note. I do see where you're coming from, and it does make sense, but there is really nothing achieved by doing this. Another example: Let's say I own an automotive business. If the average citizen in Iraq makes the equivalent of $2200 USD (http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/iraq_statistics.html) per year, and I am interested in extending my business to Iraq to further my growth and simultaneously build their economy by offering jobs and automotive supplies / transportation, how do I expect to survive in their country as a growing business? If i'm selling vehicles in the United States for $20,000, and Iraq were to LOP their currency, then it would take a single Iraqi citizen almost 10 years to own one of my vehicles at the US competitive price -- and that's accounting for the individual to dedicate all that income solely to paying off the cost of that car. I'm sure we both know how unlikely that is, as surviving is more important than owning my products. So what would i have to do? Well, i'd have to lower the cost of my vehicles to maybe $1500-2000 USD. The problem though with this, is now not only am I making less money, but I'm starting to realize that people in the US are choosing to buy my cars from Iraq and have them shipped over, because it's FAR cheaper to do so -- and since Iraq LOP'd their currency to bring the dinar 1:1 with the USD, it's a pretty even trade to go and exchange USD for Dinar and buy materials in their country so they may save a ton of money from the latter of buying things in the US. Now, if Iraq had absolutely no intentions of bothering with international trade and supply, and wanted to keep to themselves, then yes I could see this happening. But if they were to LOP and want to be up to speed with the rest of the world's developing, industrial countries.. they'd have to find a way to raise that average income to maybe 25,000-30,000 Dinar a year at a 1:1 rate very quickly, while keeping the cost of goods in the country the same, if not cheaper.. as well as the labor costs.

I don't know. If they were to lop and effectively make a 25,000 dinar bill worth 25 dinar, that doesn't shrink the current money supply, it just keeps them from having to print more than already exists (considering all bills in circulation that would need to be traded in). Given Iraq's current economy, citizens would still be using the same number of bills to buy things they regularly need. example: let's say an apple is 1000 dinar currently, and the 1000 dinar bill becomes a 1 dinar bill, and that apple now costs 1 dinar.. you're still spending the same amount, just changed the inherent face value of the bank note. It does bring the value of their bill closer to than of a USD bill, but that doesn't change the economy. That won't encourage people to invest or supply into the economy, when the economy only has so much money to begin with.. changing something's face value, ultimately, doesn't do anything. It's all about the demand of that item. If there is a higher demand for the currency, and there is less of that currency, then yes.. it becomes more valuable. if they RV 1:1, and a 1000 dinar becomes with 1000 USD, and the apple there is still worth roughly 1 USD, then an iraqi citzen won't have to spend their 1000 dinar in order to buy that apple. Instead, they can exchange that dinar for a thousand 1 dinar bills, and buy 1000 apples. Yes, this increases the amount of money that needs to be printed, but all of the sudden there is far more stimulation in the country thus more value to the country in its exports and desired imports, and therefore, there is more demand for the money because there is more of it to be made through services or supply.

So, lets say I have a business that I need substantial funding for to accommodate expenses, supplies, repair, fees, taxes, negotiations and regulations. Let's also assume that all this funding has to be handled in US Dollars. However, I don't have enough US Dollars to match, nor do I have considerably sized privately owned collateral to obtain such funding directly from a single source. What do I do? Well, let's say I have a ton of titanium coins, and for some reason they have the potential to be quite valuable.. at least to myself and the people I associate with in my industry. However, these titanium coins aren't of any outside use or interest to a singularly large source of potential USD investment. How do I obtain funding for what I have to offer? Well, let's assume the potential value of these titanium coins in my industry becomes widely known, and I begin to get small offers from multiple investors to purchase these coins on the assumption they can sell them in the future for a profit. However, since their value isn't particularly established or known, I want to take advantage of these investment opportunities and sell as much as I can at a specific low rate in return for enough USD to meet my funding needs. The catch to the investment is that these coins could be worth far more than what I sold them for, and investors who purchased them from me for USD could make a considerable amount of money reselling them in the future - either to other buyers, or back to me should I need them again. However, I can't promise how much they'd be worth in the future, because I really don't know. That value would depend on a number of factors. Nonetheless, it seems to work to my advantage that people speculate they will be worth a lot in time and are purchasing them from me. Okay, so while I have these coins, I'm making a considerable amount of USD to fund my business. However, I only want to sell as much as I'd be willing or able to buy back in the future should I need the coins back to meet the demand of their use in my industry. I don't want to provide or make too many coins because they could become over-saturated and lose value completely. Will I tell people how much i'll buy them back for? No, probably not, because I don't want to make claims or promises that I can't keep. Why? Well, because my reputation is important and should I need to do business in the future again with the use of these coins, or any new material I may have to offer, I want people to have faith in my business practices and in my materials. Either way, I won't fight speculation over their worth, because it seems to work to my advantage in the means of obtaining USD for now. Remember though, I don't intend to sell more than I can feasibly afford to buy back, because I do intend to use these coins in my industry as there is still and use and demand for them, despite it not necessarily being a world-wide recognized demand. So, now that my business is fully funded and moving forward building a fair income, and my products of such business are proving to be quite a financial success.. It has come to light that I need those titanium coins back to redistribute into my industry! Of course, I did sell them at a low rate, but i'll be damned to get them back after so many years of speculative investment at a similarly low rate… and remember, i NEED those coins back. Since I have now a successful business that is turning over a substantial wealth of USD income, I intend to buy back these coins at a value seemingly worthy of their return. Since USD is inherently useless to me and my industry, aside from the business i needed USD funding for, I can afford to use the USD income I've made to purchase my coins back. I also can name their valued price, since I alone know how much I can afford, and know respectfully how much exists (assuming no one counterfeits more into circulation that I wouldn't be able to tell the difference from). These coins have value to myself and my industry, and If i don't get them back, I could risk damaging their value and use in my industry. I need to present an incentive value that is appealing to those I sold it to in the first place, so that I may be able to buy them back.. and at a value that I can afford and a value that interests them in returning these coins to me. Of course, I could always undercut their value and try to get them back at a low price point.. but I run the risk of only getting a small portion returned. In that event, I may have to create a new material coin to use in my industry.. but doing so could hurt my credibility and the value of that new material coin based on the failure and lack of faith in the titanium coin. That's certainly the last thing I want to do, as I want to keep outside investment coming in for future growth of not just my business, but my industry as well. Also, If people outside my industry view my coins as a valuable asset, that means I could afford to do more business with external companies and use my coins for trade value instead of relying on USD! So now that i've set the value for these titanium coins at a respectable price that I can afford to buy them back, and this appeases my investors.. I've been able to purchase back all my coins at an amount of USD i'm willing to lose or go in debt to. Not to worry, because the success of my business will cover this debt, and the heightened value of my coins will serve me well to make even more money in my industry. Not only that, but since the value of my coins have grown.. so is my industry, and since my industry is growing, we are able to afford to reach out to other industries for their business to keep my industry growing. I also am providing enough product to base the value of my coins off of, and either keep or grow that value depending on the supply and demand. Sounds like everyone wins. ----------------- Okay so I developed this analogy to put into perspective a very loose view of how i for see the interest in the Iraqi Dinar. Of course, I do acknowledge there are far larger issues to take into account since there are multiple political players and laws that have to be taken into account. This analogy may not be entirely correct, but I did want to at least share it. Wishful RV thinking.

Thank you for the warm-hearted welcomes. I tend to be annoyingly thorough on my thought process, even when I make attempts to be short and to the point, so thank you for taking the time to read what I had to say as well. Honestly, I'm so new to this that I never knew what the interest in the dinar was up until the beginning of this month, 16 days ago. A close friend of mine had relayed to me the concept of investing into the currency SOLELY because the parents of a friend to him suggested participation in the matter. He only shared this with me because he thought he had passed up an opportunity of a lifetime, when his friend's parents came back and said the dinar revalued at $7 over new years weekend. They, of course, reluctantly follow the dinar gurus. Now of course this got my attention, and as I looked for proof on the matter of a 7 dollar RV, I could find none.. so I began reading into it further and discovering the potential of the investment that still remained. I jumped on board and have bought a handful of dinar just as a stab at the opportunity that everyone here is hoping for and looking forward to patiently and eagerly. However, I rarely jump into something I don't do as much research about as possible beforehand. I will admit though that my hopeful ambition is taking precedence over my knowledge because of what seems to be time constraints to this bubble popping (potential RV). So now most of my time is spent trying to understand currency reform, basic economics, banking policies and politics, and how logically sound my investment into the dinar really seems to be. I'm very comfortable with the options and potential. With that being said, I do understand how this can unfold into heated debate between members of a forum. The translations of the articles are so loose and comprehensively complicated in the sense that they're utterly jumbled to a degree of what seems like broken-English and grammatical ramblings of what actually is being said. Furthermore, they are news reports.. and we know exactly how the news tends to be delivered in the United States, so we can assume the same biases and information / misinformation leakage exists there as well. Again, I am very very new to this all, but it can be disheartening to see such specific disdain for one another over personal attacks on the attempts to understand and acknowledge these articles and what the intentions of the Iraqi Parliament, Governmental agencies, IMF, and CBI are. Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion and should be allowed to speak it. Let's not get wrapped up in what over-zealous positivity exists, or over-bearing negativity that seemingly needs to be spoken in sheer contradiction. Whether you are a half-full or half-empty kind of person, both opinions are very valuable to someone like myself when it comes to looking at both the positives and negatives to these investment issues that come to light. We are like-minded people with very similar ambitions, and yet different modes of thought. Together we can help the group as a whole better understand what sort of obstacles we are up against when it comes to ensuring confidence in our investment. For those of you who always speak positively over any matter, I shake your hand. For those of you who always have to bring out the dark side of even the smallest of matters, I shake your hand as well. We need to stay grounded and focused, and not get too caught in the mud or too lost in the clouds. All information that can be brought to the table, whether it is factual or pure theoretical opinion, is valued in my eyes. I just prefer such debates to be over understanding the content, rather than personally attacking one another for how we come to our conclusions. I hope this rant doesn't impose on anyone negatively. The reason i'm at this forum is because this seemed like the most logical of places to be to better understand this investment, and I trust that my faith in the investment can sustain around the interpretations and actions of those who participate here on this forum, providing information I would otherwise have a difficult time finding and narrowing down. Plus, just the other day a Dinar Guru spoke of a $13 RV. I can't handle silly shenanigans without any valued proof of thought other than "someone or some source i know at some bank i'm affiliated with said we're all going to be remarkably rich tomorrow" and of course "tomorrow" never comes, but they have some reason to say why not and repeat the same the following day.

From an outside perspective, I can fully understand the debate on both sides. In regards to the 200 dinar note being equal to 200k worth of dinar at this present time.. that can be exchanged with two frames of thought. Currently, 200,000 dinar is equal to roughly $171 USD (this DOESN'T MEAN they're basing the value of the dinar's worth solely to the USD.. i'm just using the comparative USD value as a reference point). So the thought here is that the new 200 dinar note will be worth $171 USD, which is the essence of an RV at 0.86 to the USD because the idea would substantiate around more supply for less note exchange. NOW, on the other side of the fence, the argument could be interpreted as an LOP if the focus of the comparison is exchanging 200,000 OLD DINAR for 200 NEW DINAR, in which a brand new currency system is brought into effect yet again. However, the two differences have very different impacts on the economic livelihood of Iraq, and how it is reflected internationally. My personal view is that an LOP would prove to do nothing substantial for the economy, nor government in the country. The international value there of their currency would not change, nor would the essence of life and resources import/export in the country. As many have pointed out, if an LOP was of interest, it would solely be done to remove the high bank notes and instate a new currency just for the sake of face-value-refresh, and wouldn't necessarily require as much debate over the issue politically as we seem to be seeing in their news. This would also take a serious amount of time as to pull old dinar out of circulation internationally, and bring in new dinar. If you immediately account old dinar as worthless, you could risk destroying the very foundation of the country's financial existence (ability to exchange and import / export goods comprehensively). It would prove to do more for the world and economy to embrace an RV. As many have already pointed out, this allows for an increase exchange of goods and services for less currency. This benefits the citizens of Iraq as, while they're incomes won't change, the value of that income will. It will encourage spending and enliven the work force. More goods would be imported to meet economic demand, which in turn would put more international faith into the country's outside investments. Their resources are a very large foundation by what much of the world currently survives on. Despite any "debt" that may occur with an RV, when you hold a large amount of the tangible wealth (resources), you can certainly account for any of that initial financial debt that may go into effect. While it seems from many perspectives that an RV benefits only us, it in fact benefits everyone. If Iraq didn't have any significant resource to offer to the rest of the world, then an RV would prove to do very little for the country and more for us, as investors. But this doesn't seem to be the case. The dot come era of investment revolved around something that wasn't backed by a tangible resource. It was a new wave of technology and the exploitation of income with that technology.. yet there was no valid, tangible way to ensure accurate financial growth with such digital business. In this case, our investment is a reflection of economic resource, and how the country fairs with the rest of the world as a valued asset to industrialization and supply. If i read correctly, the average annual income of an Iraqi citizen is roughly comparable to $2500 USD. If you compare that to the united states, that's what a lower-middle class citizen makes a month respectively (if someone has accurate data for this, please feel free to correct me). In any case, if this is true, then you have to assume the value of goods in the country is extremely low as well, just to accommodate a realistic means of survival. If an RV were to come into play.. lets say an Iraqi citizen who has $2500 USD worth of dinar (3 million dinar) would all of the sudden have $2,580,000 worth of USD. That doesn't all of the sudden make them "insurmountably rich" ...you can assume the cost of goods will rise respectfully as well. It may cost us an average of $30,000 USD to buy a car, but it could cost them twice as much, especially if much of their economic growth builds off of imports into the country. You also have to take into account their living taxes and expenses could be higher. This is completely speculative, and simply my relative view on the matter. None of what I say is right or proof / negation to what the intentions of the CBI or Parliament are. If there are others who can expand upon what I've said, either in a contradictive or supportive / correctional light.. I absolutely welcome it without distaste.

Well, i'm new here. Despite finding it difficult to read through these translations, some questions come to mind. While of course i'd love an RV just as much as anyone else, this LOP talk doesn't seem out of reach. I'm not an economist, so I have no real say in what an LOP would do for Iraq's economy.. however, in all reality, bringing a 25,000 note to equal a 25 note seems feasible. Imagine a day where you were to go pay for something with a $100 USD bill, and they told you it was only worth $1. You refute such a ridiculous accusation, then you try again somewhere else. Same situation. Then you go to the bank, and they offer you a new $1 for your traditional $100 bill. You would be astounded, but what would you do? Especially if they told you in a few months your traditional $100 bill would become worthless and unusable? You'd have to give in and take the $1. It's just out of your hands at that point. Again, I don't know what this means for the economy, but it seems logical if all they're looking to do is revise the numeric face value of the bills. Economically, I don't believe this would really change anything. If they're looking to put more value to the dinar to encourage more spending amidst Iraqi citizens, my first guess would be to raise the value of the dinar as it currently stands compared to products and services in the country. So instead of a meal hypothetically costing 25,000 dinar, it would all of the sudden cost maybe 1000 dinar.. and then progressively over time, it would cost 25 dinar. In this case, Iraqi citizens who have maybe 500,000 dinar saved, actually have more reason to spend rather than save and live sparingly. People who have businesses are selling more product or hired for more frequent service. The cost of imports are balanced to where the supplier is spending the same as they were before, but seemingly spending far less dinar.. so they are able to order more product to meet the demand. This, in my opinion, would encourage the spending of Dinar over USD more frequently as it is likely far more common there. At the same time, the banks could stop making the 25k, 10k, 5k, and 1k notes.. and request to pull them out of circulation over time by offering their value in smaller denominated notes. Somewhat like if I had a $100,000 USD note.. while it's no longer in circulation.. and seemingly worthless, its still recognized as 100,000.. and throwing out the fact that it's a collectors item.. if you went to a bank with it, there's a good chance they'd honor it and exchange you it's value in bills you could actually use as a consumer (since no one is going to accept a 100,000 dollar bill). In any case, this is just what i envision in my mind. I'm not trying to stir up anything, just trying to get a better understanding for myself the logic of these decisions. If the ultimate change of the dinar has to do with economic growth, then an LOP really doesn't make sense to me (again, i'm not an economist.. so i really have no clue). But if all they care about is changing the face value of something.. then an LOP does seem realistic. Any other thoughts? I really am curious to see what other realities there are to this without considering our own investment in the hopeful RV of the currency.