JayP

The truth is, the new notes have not even been printed as of yet, so I would venture to say that there is very little, to no chance of seeing this ride end by the end of this month. In fact, there was a recent article that came out about a week or so ago, that once again speaks of the new dinar that will be printed, and that they are currently still designing them, and never has any article spoke of them as notes that have been printed. There has been much speculation on this matter in the last couple years because of certain "gurus" out there that have claimed to know that they have been printed, one going as far as to say he has even seen a picture of them, but not a single one of them have ever been able to produce the evidence to support their claims, or the pictures. I have personally asked to see this, and they have never been able to produce anything. I do believe that one way or the other, whatever it is the outcome may be for our investment, we are still in for a bit of this wait. My opinion, that being at least until the 2nd half of this year to 2013 at the earliest. In the meantime, we sit back, learn, and enjoy the company of one another!

One thing you are right about, is that if they were going to RV, they would not announce it, or talk about it ahead of time, but they would just not say anything at all. At the most, they may mention that they would not raise the rate before actually doing it, but that would be it. The big difference though, is when a country could, but denies plans to revalue to a higher rate, is that it is well known that they have the ability to be able to significantly raise their rate, but refuse to do so for a competitive advantage in trade, such as the case with China. We know they can, and that they are undervalued at this time, but they refuse to raise their exchange rate to have that competitive advantage. This is the key difference with Iraq, because they are not only saying that they will redenominate, but there is very little evidence to support that they are truly undervalued. In fact, in the last IMF report from last year, I believe they were rated as fairly valued at the current rate. This is why I closely watch the currency supply. If I see that drastically reduce, or if someone can show good, verifiable evidence to support that the CBI numbers are truly wrong by 26 Trillion Dinar, then we will know that they are definitely far undervalued, and we can have the expectation of a likely large increase in their rate. This is what I hope to see come out as many speculate that this is the case, but there has just been a lack of evidence proven outside of my and other investor's hopes and speculations.

Unfortunately you are right on the mark with this one, if the CBI should follow through with what they have been saying, then it would not be good. I have posted this in the past, and based on some of the comments that I have read above, it would seem that some people have not read this. I would urge anyone that does not understand the process of a redenomination, the advantages and disadvantages, and why countries opt to go down this road, to read this document, as it is extremely enlightening, and will help people better understand what we may be looking at in terms of potential outcomes. http://www.unc.edu/~lmosley/APSA%202005.pdf I read above where someone above wrote that redenominations generally reduce the value of the currency, which is not really true either. The new unit of currency is generally given a new rate moving the decimal over to the left by the amount of zeros removed from the currency, but there are cases, such as the 2003 change of the IQD where old for new was exchanged 1:1, therefore there was not a change in rate as a result. This is not the case this time, as they have specifically stated they desire a 1000:1 old for new exchange.

This is not necessarily true, Saleh has stated this, as well as stated things such as explaining how 1000 dinars today would be 1 dinar after the deletion of the zeros. Here is an example of one of those quote where he states this: And delete the zeros, said the central bank adviser: The category Iraqi monetary deleted, including three zeros, viz (1,000) "thousand dinars," becomes "one dinar" only http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dnahrain%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3Dbh9%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ar&u=http://xendan.org/arabic/drejaA.aspx%3F%3Dhewal%26jmara%3D2897%26Jor%3D2 When a 1000 dinar becomes only 1 dinar, that works out specifically to 1000:1 old for new. There are plenty of things to hope that that are reasonable, like hoping that the Gov't concerns of corruption, or counterfeiting in the process would make it not worth the efforts for this measure, or that the CBI numbers may really be off by 26 Trillion dinar, or other reasons to hope that they will not go this route, but I think that in my opinion, to be fair to ourselves and best be informed of the facts, I am not sure it does us any justice to say that when 1000 dinar becomes 1 new dinar, this is not 1000:1 old for new...

Oh, I see what you are saying.. yes, that is a good point. There are cases like this where they will gradually introduce the new notes though, such as Mexico for instance in 1993, when they initially released a set of new Peso in exchange for the old Peso, but then introduced additional new pesos by the time the 3 year exchange period was completed in 1996, where I believe they had 2 more denominations introduced in addition to the initial set released in 1993. I hope this helps some.. Truth be told.. if it were me making the call, I would say it would not make sense or be worth the time making the change deleting zeros at all.. but then again, I am admittedly and obviously a bit biased in that opinion by my own personal agenda here :lol:

This is actually not true, because many countries actually do gradually phase out the old notes, and introduce a new unit of currency, allowing the old and new notes to co-exist for a period of time, specifically for the reason that was mentioned in the article you quoted, marking prices for goods in both the old and new units of currency so the consumer will know what to pay based on what is being used at the time of purchase. In fact countries, such as Romania, which Iraq has specifically pointed out as a country to look to as a successful example of what the CBI wants to do. I can give a long list of other nations as well, others which Iraq has used as examples also. See the bottom of page 1 beginning with "Implementation of the new currency shall be made according to the following schedule:" and the top of page 2, and you will see where this is in fact how countries will implement this gradually over time: https://www.isdadocs.org/speeches/memopdf/Redenomination-Memo-061405.pdf There are occasions of a Rd where they will do it much faster though, such as with the case in 2003 when they wanted to get rid of the Saddam notes as soon as possible, and replace it with the current notes, but the exchange was 1:1 old for new (with the exception of the Swiss Dinar which was 150:1) but that situation was done for a a different reason than needing to reduce circulation.

This is specifically the type of thing that the gov't is concerned about in the implementation of the process of the deletion of the zeros, so the more we see articles like this, hopefully the more cause it gives for the gov't to justify their concerns about counterfeiting in the process of that implementation. Counterfeit Money Infiltrates Kurdistan’s Markets Font size: Decrease font Enlarge font image Wads of Iraqi banknotes inside a currency exchange bureau in Erbil. Photo Rudaw. ERBIL, Iraqi Kurdistan – Some businessmen and owners of currency exchange bureaus say that counterfeit banknotes have flooded the market in the Kurdistan Region. The president of the Kurdistan Region Bank said, "High-tech machinery is apparently used to make some of the counterfeit money." The president of Kurdistan Region Bank, Adham Karim, said they have told various governmental agencies about the problem. Most of the counterfeit money is Iraqi dinar banknotes, but among them U.S. dollars have been found. Kurdistan Region’s security forces are trying to tackle the problem. Frsat Dolamari, a security official, told Rudaw, "We have put tight security in place at the borders to stop the smuggling of counterfeit money into Kurdistan." Qader Junaid has worked in the Erbil currency exchange market for more than 15 years. He says he has to be very careful in his business to avoid taking counterfeit money. "There is a new kind of paper in the market now that, when printed into counterfeit bills, is very hard to distinguish from an original bill," he said. "The people who produce counterfeit money don't dare to show up in the dollar market themselves, because they know that people here are specialists in recognizing counterfeit from original bills." Ghanm Habib, another currency exchange businessman in Erbil, says that most of the counterfeit money in the market is 10,000 dinar bills. Habib has a collection of fake bills which he says he has received from day-to-day exchange of currency with customers. Abdulmajid Kirkuki, a specialist in recognizing counterfeit money in Erbil, confirmed Habib’s statement that 10,000 dinar bills make up almost 80 percent of the counterfeit money in Kurdistan and Iraqi markets today. “Those machines not only won't recognize counterfeit American dollars, they won't even recognize counterfeit Iraqi dinars,” "Those making the money don't bring the counterfeit bills to us themselves,” he said. “They give it to small grocers, spend it in mini markets, at auto shops and with taxi drivers, and when those people bring the money to us, we find out it’s counterfeit." Osman Ali, 54, the owner of a shop at the Shekhalla Market, says he is a real victim of counterfeit money. "In the past two months, I have received $1,000 of counterfeit money without knowing it." Ali says he now has a device to help him detect the fake bills. But Gibrael Ahmed, the owner of a currency exchange bureau in Erbil, has little faith in devices to detect fake bills. He maintains the machines are made in China and are of low quality. "Those machines not only won't recognize counterfeit American dollars, they won't even recognize counterfeit Iraqi dinars," he told Rudaw. Junaid, owner of Runaki Currency Exchange, uses a Korean-made device. "It can detect counterfeit euros and dollars,” he said. "But it won't detect counterfeit Iraqi dinars." Authorities in the Kurdistan Region are aware of the counterfeit money in the market and they are trying to finds ways to counter it. Karim, president of Kurdistan Regional Bank, said, "We know there is counterfeit money in the market; that is why we have made the Ministry of Trade aware of the problem. We have talked to the Iraqi Central Bank as well." Karim said the security forces have been asked to keep a close eye on the market for the transaction of fake bills. Counterfeit money entering the system poses a serious threat to the region’s economy, given the fact that the majority of people are government employees and get paid by the government. But Karim said it is not easy to pass fake money through government banks. "We have installed high-tech machines in the banks,” he said. “No bills, especially dollars, are accepted without detailed inspection, because there is a new kind of counterfeit dollars in the market that even the machines don't detect.” According to Karim, the current political upheaval in the Middle East is one reason for this new wave of counterfeit money in the markets. "The situations in the countries neighboring Iraq are unstable; the political situation in Iraq is also unstable,” he said. “The Kurdistan Region is to a degree unstable, and this makes some people and organizations take steps to further destabilize the economy of Iraq and the Kurdistan Region." Dolamari said that, in the past few years, several people have been detained for dealing in counterfeit money. "Anyone is in possession of or found counterfeiting money will, according to Iraqi criminal law, be sentenced to 15 years in prison," Dolamari said. http://www.rudaw.net/english/kurds/4471.html

Actually, they have exchange dealers and banks setup for exchanging currency already. Many Iraqis already do this on a regular basis as it is said many prefer the use of the USD. In order to get the USD, they need to use currency exchangers and banks to trade their dinars for dollars, so if they were required to exchange the current dinar for new dinars at a 1000:1 ratio old for new, I assume they would be able to use the same currency exchangers or banks.

Wow... I think you may have actually missed me or something!! I will like to see an article come out that will show that the notes will be exchanged old for new at 1:1, but I have not seen that yet. If we do see that though, then that would definitely be something to get excited about at least. Then you would be right.. the rate would not matter, as long as we knew it was a 1:1 old for new rather than 1000:1 old for new! If your eyes see it different, then hey, right or wrong, it definitely looks a lot better from your eyes.. no doubt about that!! lol!

Ok, I have to admit, that would have been perfect, however if that were the case, they would have then stated in the article: "He added the exchange rate between the new banknotes and the old ones would be 1,000:1,000." OR "1:1" Instead they were very clear about the 1:1,000 though, so 1 new will be exchanged for every 1000 old dinar a person brings in to be exchanged. That sounded great for a brief moment when I first read what you wrote though!

Unfortunately, that cannot be true either. I know that there was a rumor that was disseminated a few years back where they stated that there was some agreement that dinar investors hold would only go to the treasury, where it will then be used for Iraqi oil. Unfortunately, those that created this theory, were never able to provide any evidence to support such a theory either, but because it sounded so good, it sort of grew into what many considered as fact, sort of like the fallacy that Bush once said the war would pay for itself, which was also not true. The real hole in the theory though, is that oil is not, nor would be purchased in Dinars. Oil is dealt with in USD, but I would be interested to see if there is anything that can be produced that would show that this is agreed to change, and that oil will in the future be purchased in Dinar rather than the USD. If someone can produce this agreement, then this theory is something worth exploring, but from my experience, anyone that promotes this, has never been able to produce anything to support it. I would like to see that change though!!

It is true, which is why they stated numerous times that they currently have, and desire to have the strongest currency in their region. They are not affected by the volatility in the region for this very reason. I do not think that they desire to weaken their currency by allowing their currency to exceed their reserves where they would no longer have that 100% backing by their foreign reserves.

Hello Darin.. well for beginners, with all due respect to sonny1, and his willingness to be open to discuss both sides with people.. it was even by his own admission that he created this post because he was upset that a certain former member said something about him that he did not like, which he took offense to, so this was his way to return the favor. I personally feel it would have been better done on a forum where the other party was able to respond and comment back in their defense, but either way, this was his way of going about it, and he is entitled to that, but we cannot take away from the fact that it was by his own admission that this was done with ill intent toward a couple of people, and the others names were dragged into it, albeit with the intent of all in good fun regarding the others, but the intent of the thread itself, was not in jest, and there was a specific person(s) that this was aimed at. As far as the point about the RV or RD, I agree, nobody knows what the CBI will ultimately decide to do, and of course, I will remain hopeful that they decide against it up until the CBI comes out with an official announcement that a final determination has been made with cooperation of the gov't. I do agree though, that it is a band-aid in the respect that if they were still suffering from inflationary issues, or from monetary policies that were hurting themselves, then deleting zeros would not do them any long term good, and in fact, this is the argument that the government has been bringing to the table for some time now, stating that there is a lack of benefits from this process to justify this measure. I would have to agree with the govt, on that case, and with you that a slow rise of the rate as they diversify their economy, grow their GDP, and find other long term methods of reducing circulation would be much more ideal. For whatever the reason, the CBI does not seem to agree on that thought process, but let's hope that they will in the end. In the meantime, we watch, wait, research, learn, and enjoy this ride together with lively discussion, and friendly debate between each other!

Absolutely! Your opinion is ok with me.. in fact I am rooting for your opinion here!!! GO Goldiegirl!! I can just tell you my opinion based on how countries "delete zeros" in this type of scenario. Many countries have done this same thing, and those that allowed the old and new to co-exist because of a longer time frame of exchange generally use this methodology. Like I said though.. I will definitely continue to hope that maybe they will not go this route, or maybe your opinion is what will happen... either is fine by me!!!

Hello Goldiegirl... As much as I want to believe that were true, and as much as I want to tell myself that the deletion of the zeros is something else, I have to be both honest with myself and those that are here for information. You are correct in the respect that it is likely the rate will remain the same, but what that would, mean would be that the current notes will remain in circulation co-existing, but at the current rate of .00086, while the new smaller denominations will remain the same at the new rate of .86 (or whatever the new rate would be because they can go to .001 for old, and 1.00 for the new for example) As far as the deposit, it would not do you any good in terms of the rate, because electronic money would automatically become the new currency by having the decimal point moved over on all accounts, loans, etc. I believe not so long ago they even discussed the laws regarding the loans, etc. Now, where the electronic money may come in handy IF, they were to follow through with the deletion of the zeros (which I still wait to hear from the CBI with an official announcement that they are definitely moving forward with), that the electronic funds may allow you to hold on to the Dinar longer without needing to find a currency exchanger to exchange your current note for a new note to hold out long term for a nominal gain, without needing to incur that additional dealer expense...you just have the added element of having an Iraqi bank responsible for your money.

' Katie.. we discussed the war reparations last night, and I was curious if you asked Kap about this. Here was my last post, but I do not think you provided a response, but you then mentioned the war reparations again, using the same video we talked about earlier as proof: "I do not disagree with that, and I understand about the costs of the war... but the very basis of the theory here is the statement made by Senator Menendez, so using that information that was provided to support this theory, it was specifically stated, that when talking about the expenses he mentioned the 58 Billion, not 800 Billion, and he specifically stated that he was only "told" by someone that the Iraqi oil would fund the costs. I do not think that if we are going to use that as evidence to support anything, that we should be adding details to the supporting information that is not there. I completely understand your concern here if things do not add up, but I would ask Kaperoni about it since this was his supporting evidence to his theory that they need to RV to pay for a war. It sounds to me like his supporting evidence does not support what he is telling his members after all, and based on what you are telling me, it would seem you agree since you clearly agree that the evidence does not add up or make sense based on the total cost of the war per your link..."

Markinsa.. do you have where it states that they would need to exchange the old for the new notes at 1:1, when referring to the currency change that they are talking about this September? The CBI may have stated that when referring to the old Saddam notes for the current notes, which is true, they changed their currency, and did a 1:1 exchange old for new, and then did a 150:1 exchange old for new for the Swiss Dinars since they were using both currencies in the country at the time, but that would not apply to the exchange for the current notes exchanging for new notes later this year if this is true. According to this article, that exchange would happen at 1000:1 old for new. Thanks....

Unfortunately one2one, this is how a redenomination happens. The old for new is traded 1000:1, meaning it would for ever 1000 dinar, they exchange for 1 new dinar. The old dinar maintains the current value of .00086, while the new 1 dinar has a rate of .86. Both, 1000 old and 1 new are worth $21.50 USD. They co-exist because there are 2 prices are listed in the stores, during that time of exchange, depending on what they are using. So for example, if you want to buy 2 cans of soda, you can either pay 1000 dinar using the current note, or 1 dinar with the new note. Both prices would be listed. This is how redenominations happened in the past with the other nations. I hope this helps. I guess all we can do is hope this is not true at this point, but they seem pretty clear about it, and have been talking about doing this for years now... No doubt about it that would be much better for us, but based on what they stated, they were very clear: "explained MP Khalil. He added the exchange rate between the new banknotes and the old ones would be 1:1,000." That is means that they would need to exchange 1000 old notes for 1 new note... I truly wish it meant something else as well though..

Yes, here is an article from today that states that: http://www.kurdishglobe.net/display-article.html?id=3CBF63FA930E6C8FF6BBF1EDC3B7D027 ""According to the agreements, the new bill will be printed by a European company and introduced to the market gradually and in a well-planned schedule to ensure it will not result in shocks and would not have a negative impact on the market," explained MP Khalil. He added the exchange rate between the new banknotes and the old ones would be 1:1,000. " This is definitely not good for our investment, at least in terms of the hopes of making millions. This still does not mean that they cannot give it a new rate over 1.00 for the new notes at the same time that would give us some return in time, but this would definitely make it so we would not make millions as the gurus try to tell people

Kudos to you rockinrich... you admitted where you misspoke.. and if nothing else, I can appreciate and admire that you can do that. No doubt about it that there are some people out there that make a real mockery of this investment. I would love to see that they are really drawing the notes in from the streets like that, but I began to lose hope that this was actually happening since this was never reflected in any of the CBI documentation, including the annual bulletins. I gave some gurus out there the benefit of the doubt when they were saying that back in 2010, but it was evident by the CBI documentation that was not happening as they were saying. I guess this goes back to me still hoping that maybe it is possible that those reports and financial indicators are in fact truly wrong by about 26 Trillion Dinar.. Prove that, and I will start the happy dance for all of us..

rockinrich... that is why we are here, to enlighten and learn from one another. Can you explain what they are saying when they are talking about deleting the zeros since by your own admission, that they would never come out and tell people that they are going to RV? Thanks...

I do not disagree with that, and I understand about the costs of the war... but the very basis of the theory here is the statement made by Senator Menendez, so using that information that was provided to support this theory, it was specifically stated, that when talking about the expenses he mentioned the 58 Billion, not 800 Billion, and he specifically stated that he was only "told" by someone that the Iraqi oil would fund the costs. I do not think that if we are going to use that as evidence to support anything, that we should be adding details to the supporting information that is not there. I completely understand your concern here if things do not add up, but I would ask Kaperoni about it since this was his supporting evidence to his theory that they need to RV to pay for a war. It sounds to me like his supporting evidence does not support what he is telling his members after all, and based on what you are telling me, it would seem you agree since you clearly agree that the evidence does not add up or make sense based on the total cost of the war per your link...

Can you tell me where you see that they are stating that they need to pay 800 Billion in war debts? I know about the video of Senator Menendez, but as stated in the earlier post though, he only talks about 58 Billion that he was told would fund the costs. Do you have something that states that they need to also fund the additional 742 Billion in addition to the 58 Billion that was mentioned, or was Kaperoni going based on assumptions? If you have anything that supports this, then it would definitely be worth the time to discuss the details of that documentation. Thanks!!

That is 100% correct. The video rockinrich is referring to specifically states and I quote Senator Menendez: "After 58 Billion dollars when we were told that the Iraqi oil would fund the full cost of our invasion in Iraq and the cost of it" He specifically said "Iraqi Oil", which as you pointed out is paid for and dealt with in USD not Dinar....

rockinrich.. can I ask what you are even talking about here? What war reparations of 3 Trillion do they owe, and who do they owe this to? Do you have any documentation that shows that they owe war reparations outside of the 17 Billion still owed to Kuwait for the 1990 invasion? Thanks! Ok, with all due respect, let's break this down a bit here. Your first sentence here is states: "do you really think their gonna come out and tell people their gonna rv?" The very next statement is: " theres so many articles from the cbi themselves that this is gonna be an rv" So which is it??? I am just trying to understand the logic here so forgive me.