Rayzur

Ya know I genuinely can not for the life of me figure out why McCain of ALL people, along with whoever else is in the chorus.... why he is saying we should have stayed, when there was no way we were going to be given immunity if we had. Why is that okay with him that I or anyone else would no longer be protected under US jurisdiction and the UCMJ as military who are sent there as US soldiers? I honestly don't get why he's mumbling about we should a stayed ..... when that would have put every single military person under the jurisdiction of Iraq (had we stayed)???....Why is that okay with ANY legislator??? But hey, I'm all about the mission, so I'll be right there.... behind every legislator demanding we should still be there... and I'll make sure they are front and center in the action....... I'm not real up on the latest agreements JoBug... did we sign a new one with Iraq? The SOFA I'm aware of was with regard to the draw down of US troops in Iraq, to be concluded Dec 2011....I was not aware that this would some how extend past that agreement (meaning immunity for US military==> remain under UCMJ).... or that a new one has been signed.... Per that SOFA agreement, all contractors etc civilians are there at their own risk as they fall under the jurisdiction of Iraq and not the US (unless we signed something new?) And the troops (Marines) being sent there now (as announced officially), are there to support the Embassy, which comes under US jurisdiction as US sovereign soil.... If we send in planes with pilots and they are shot down, then they become prisoners of the faction shooting at them... or they will be recovered and returned to the US, if they are rescued by friendlies... Because they would not be staying in Iraq (and instead invited to fly missions), immunity would not be required in the same fashion, as they are not "based" in Iraq, requiring an agreement as to jurisdiction.... Maybe there is a new SOFA, though I'm not sure being invited to assist in quelling the masses, and our response so far would be one of air support... I'm not sure a status agreement would be necessary?? As we are not returning with ground troops based in country.... I've seen SOFA mentioned in here a few times relative to this most recent event...and am really interested in learning about something newly drafted (and why cause that would be a major big deal)... or learning how the old one can be extended now to US military, when that was not possible then... Interesting question.... I'll be interested in hearing more.... hummmm..... .

Iraq's Foreign Minister Hoshiyar Zebari(Photo:Reuters) Iraq asked the United States Wednesday to carry out air strikes on Sunni jihadists, who attacked the country's main oil refinery and seized more territory in the north. The appeal came as fighters from the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) were pressing a week-long offensive that has brought them close to the capital, and as Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki pledging to face down "terrorism." "Iraq has officially asked Washington to help under the security agreement (between the two countries), and to conduct air strikes against terrorist groups," Zebari told reporters in Saudi Arabia. However, Zebari said "a military approach will not be enough. We acknowledge the need for drastic political solutions." The United States spent millions of dollars over several years training and arming a new Iraqi army after disbanding the Sunni-led force created by the late dictator Saddam Hussein. Washington has already deployed an aircraft carrier to the Gulf and sent marines to bolster security at its embassy in Baghdad, but President Barack Obama has insisted a return to combat in Iraq for US soldiers is not on the cards. However, Secretary of State John Kerry has said drone strikes could be used. Maliki vowed on television that "we will face terrorism and bring down the conspiracy," adding that "we will teach (militants) a lesson and strike them." He also said the country's security forces, which wilted in the face of a major militant offensive that overran all of one province and chunks of three more in a matter of days last week, had suffered a "setback" but had not been defeated. Maliki security spokesman Lieutenant General Qassem Atta later said security forces would retake by Thursday morning full control of Tal Afar, a Shiite town in the north that lies along a strategic corridor to Syria. That would provide a base from which to launch operations to recapture Mosul. With regional tensions rising, Iranian President Hassan Rouhani said the Islamic republic "will do everything" to protect Shiite shrines in Iraqi cities against the militant assault. And Saudi Arabia warned of the risks of a civil war in Iraq with unpredictable consequences for the region, while the United Arab Emirates recalled its envoy to Baghdad, voicing concern over "exclusionary and sectarian policies." The crisis, which has displaced hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, threatens to break the country apart, while the assault on Baiji oil refinery Wednesday further spooked international oil markets. Brent crude for August delivery added three cents to $113.48 per barrel just after midday in London. US benchmark West Texas Intermediate for July delivery picked up 34 cents to $106.73 a barrel. The attack on the refinery complex, in Salaheddin province north of Baghdad, was launched before dawn, officials said. Atta said Iraqi forces managed to kill 40 militants and repel the attack, but that some tanks containing refined products caught fire. The refinery was shut down and some employees evacuated on Tuesday due to a drop in demand caused by the militant drive. World oil producers have cautiously watched the unfolding chaos in Iraq, which currently exports around 2.5 million barrels of oil per day. |They have stressed that the country's vast crude supplies, mostly in the south, are safe -- for now. The militants' swift advance has sparked international alarm, with the UN's envoy to Baghdad warning that the crisis was "life-threatening for Iraq." Analysts suggested that the country could unravel, surviving at best as a federal state. John Drake, an expert on Iraq with British security group AKE, was asked if Iraq could remain united. "I don't think it's impossible, but it is highly unlikely," was his verdict. Police and officials reported that militants had moved into the Shiite Turkmen area of Bashir in Kirkuk province and also seized three villages in Salaheddin province Wednesday. Meanwhile, the Indian foreign ministry announced that 40 Indian construction workers had been abducted in Mosul, the first city to fall in the offensive. Spokesman Syed Akbaruddin said 46 Indian nurses were also stranded in the militant-held city of Tikrit. Last week, as the offensive got underway ISIL fighters kidnapped 49 Turks in Mosul, including diplomats and children, after earlier seizing 31 Turkish truck drivers. In a bid to see off the offensive, Maliki sacked several top security commanders Tuesday evening, then stood alongside several of his main rivals in a rare display of unity among the country's fractious political leaders. The dismissals came after soldiers and police fled en masse as insurgents swept into Mosul, a city of two million, on June 10. Some abandoned their vehicles and uniforms when faced with the insurgents, which are led by ISIL fighters but also include loyalists of executed dictator Saddam Hussein. After taking Mosul, militants captured a major chunk of mainly Sunni Arab territory stretching towards the capital. Despite security forces' initial poor performance, Pentagon spokesman Rear Admiral John Kirby said Iraqi troops, with help from Shiite volunteers, were "stiffening their resistance" around Baghdad.

Thug a licious... I'm on to you brother.... You posted this just so you could test that brand spankin new stop watch and see how fast I would climb up the wall in response... uh huh... you did huh... Just like so many other times, its really hard to pick my favorite sentence group... for tonight's pick, I'm going to have to quote this one from today's Tlar chat... I am going to tell you all something that I probably should not tell you because I know it will solicit many questions that I cannot yet answer. I will tell you anyway. Yesterday after Maliki had already announced that he did not need a state of emergency because he had those same powers under the National Safety Law, he got paid a visit by officials from our government. The two gentlemen who sat with him "advised" him to publically resign. So what you are saying here, is that you are high enough to have access to information not only as to who visits Maliki's office... but what they are saying while sitting in Maliki's office in discussion with him... Apart from the obvious observation that you should therein be able to tell us a hellva lot more about the exact discussion Maliki has had with the CBI about the RV...one has to wonder why you have to bother relying on or quoting any article about anything Iraq, when you apparently have Maliki's office wired.... And hopefully you are not implying that you are high enough in some government position to have this information.... Even the newest newbie knows if you are that high, you have put considerable time in to get there, and federal government retirement is sweet. No one trying to sound that smart would be that stupid to be blabbidty blabbing about dinar in some chat room, risking the entire pension you've worked so hard to get... Unfortunately in trying to sound all secret squirrel covert, you've basically proven you are not evenly remotely connected as such... Like so many before you, you put in just enough factual info to lay a foundation of possible credibility, which you totally blow to helll and back when you start ad-libbing in the attempt to convince folks you know more than you do, or somehow better understand a country than the people in charge of running it... Its really okay to have an opinion or tell people what you think... but when you try to dress is up with an air of official authority, then you should either be arrested and criminally charged with summary dismissal... or simply be honest with everyone and state its your opinion and why you reached it... And sure you might lose some of your specialness in the eyes of some.....But frankly, in my opinion that would be far better than being banished to the German montain tops with Mtn Goat and Okie... Those hills will eventually get really really cold... .

Hummmm I wonder if THIS was his broadcast message everyone was looking forward to reading??? (Well I was certainly on the edge of my chair).... I noticed this sentence: Hamid al-Mutlaq,a Sunni in Allawi’s secular bloc who still hopes that a coalition can be formed to choose a new prime minister Someone should shoot a memo to Mutlag and let him know he doesn't have to worry.... according to Frank and Tlar, Chalabi has already been "elected" Prime Minister, and as soon as that technical glitch is fixed and the site comes back up, the world can read the announcement.... .

I was going to say thanks!! But its already been taken....

Hey Now!!!! You Wrecked the What's New page by posting right in the middle of all that gratefulness...... A sea of brown interrupted with a sparkley blue background and clown face right smack dab in the middle of the page.... .

Wow, nice find Wisky!!!! Great article and explains a lot.... thanks for bringing it on....

BTW I had more photos to post in my gallery for those who were interested in seeing them. I had no intention of putting them in a thread lest someone unsuspecting ended up looking at something they did not want to see. And at the same time, I would love to demand anyone denying the current hostilities (not on this site), to be forced to look into the eyes of those people. In any event, I stopped posting them in my gallery as I noticed that they immediatley came up in the flash banner on the general page.... A huge Thank You to K8 who I emailed, for coming to the rescue and posting baseball pictures to knock them off the banner..... I'm not sure how to post in my gallery and keep open for people to view, yet also keep them off the general flash banner for those who do not want to see them.... But to anyone doubting that this is happening and is engulfing non military innocent people, be advised I have before and after execution head shots I'd be happy to send your way..in off setting the effects of whatever you are smoking... And further btw, before anyone gets into deep denial.... The Iraqi Gov't has apparent blood on their hands as well.... There were something like 70 prisoners in some prison found executed today.... . . . yeah I am annoyed that anyone would be so pompous as to deny the actuality and burtality of these many deaths.....

Ahhhh yeah... have you ever noticed how they start a formal /official letter to one another.... I don't have it with me on this computer... but its not "Dear Sir... though I am not sure they are debating the religion as such per se... in that they come from the same foundation... and everything is for sure wrapped in that religious foundation.... and now that I say that, it would be interesting to dig further to see if there is actually a point of debate between the religion of the Sunni versus the religion of a Shi'ite.... Is it like the difference between a Baptist and Lutheran... a Protestant and a Catholic, or a Christian and a Jew?? I know they have distinct Shi'ite and Sunni shrines, but does that reflect a variation on the same theme, or are they really distinctly different foundations?.... Never really thought of that.... Guess I am guilty of painting the Islamic people of Iraq as a whole, with the same religious brush...Now, I'll have to go check that out.... Food for thought Nelg... thanks......

You are totally cracking me up here Thug a licious. IN other news... .. SRSG calls leaders of Iraq to come together & agree on national security plan Tuesday, 17 June 2014 22:25 | | | Baghdad (AIN) -The Special Representative of the United Nations Secretary-General for Iraq (SRSG), Mr. Nickolay Mladenov, welcomed the certification of the 30 April legislative election results by the Federal Supreme Court. “Now that the election results have been certified it is imperative for the newly elected Council of Representatives to meet and ensure the continuity of the political process on the basis of the Constitution” Mr. Mladenov said in a statement received by All Iraq News Agency. “I encourage the political leaders of Iraq to swiftly come together and agree on a national security plan to address the terrorist threat, and on a set of inclusive political and social initiatives that must be supported by all communities in the country. The United Nations stands ready to facilitate this process” SRSG Mladenov added. /End/ http://www.alliraqnews.com/en/index.php/political-news/54162-srsg-calls-leaders-of-iraq-to-come-together-a-agree-on-national-security-plan PS I posted the map in my gallery... way too big for the thread I guess...

Here is a little ethnographic map to help keep track of all the players and their home ground...... You will notice the desert part of the map leading to the assumption that Shi'ite Iraq would not want to sign up for the 3 countries plan... And sure there is some oil there, and not nearly to the degree in the other areas... .

Thanks Thug a licious !!!! You must crack up and fall on the floor sometimes reading this stuff... That was EXACTLY my thoughts... though they forgot to brief Frank on some of the details (e.g., Chalibi is new PM).... Maybe DV should put out aircraft handlers to direct the lurkers to the correct threads.... looks like Delta found his way.... I started watching how many guests were watching some of the threads and many times they far far outnumbered the DV folks signed in... (more than usual).... and you are right, they were too lazy to even change the words and simply quoted word for word... Would be fun to capture some of the IPs floating out there in lurker land...... Apart from that I would love the background 411 as to who engineered this, and why, (for whose benefit)... and how that ties into the conflicts in the entire ME erupting right now.... (or is that a big costume party as well).

Don't know how graphic these are, haven't had time to review... I know there are bodies, not sure if they filmed kill shots... didn't go frame by frame... They are not at all shy in showing very graphic and brutal stuff, so be advised before opening.... A colleague sent me the descriptors.Thought I would share... . Videos are in Arabic, but these descriptors will give you an idea of what is going on in each: In this first video the ISIS commander taking credit for an attack on a "secret" Iraqi police station in northern Baghdad. The commander says that the order to attack the police station came directly from the "ISIS military base," and vows to continue carrying out attacks "in support of Ahl al Sunna [sunni Muslims]." He says that the goals of such attacks are "liberation and the caliphate, with Allah's permission." The video goes on to show night footage from the attack on the police station, with a banner at the bottom reading "raiding a secret Savafid [shi'ite] police headquarters - north Baghdad." ISIS fighters are seen battling Iraqi police forces and then storming the headquarters and seizing weapons, ammunition, and other material from the station. Starting at 4:46, the video shows footage of "the Savafid [shi'ite] army's flight from their barracks fearing confrontation with the lions [of ISIS] - Ninewa." The video concludes with shots of the "loot of the apostates [ghana'im al murtadeen]," http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_uq8Fi8PJyg This next video, titled "The Islamic State Wilayat Ninewa Freeing the Detainees From The Savafid Prisons," purports to show a group of recently freed Iraqi prisoners who have joined or rejoined the ISIS ranks. A group of 30-50 prisoners is shown sitting in a mosque flanked by black ISIS flags. The banner at the bottom of the screen reads, "The freed prisoners from the rafida Savafid [shi'ite] prisons." The video concludes with images of freed prisoners taking up arms; a banner at the bottom of the screen reads, "The freed ISIS prisoners joining their brothers in the battlefield http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=f5jJ7HKesQk I did briefly look at this video... its a basic run down of the following principles and has no live engagement photos. Thought I would include in case there is interest... It is the doctrine of ISIS The third video is titled "The Doctrine of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Sham, may Allah keep it." The video presents a rundown of 18 core ISIS tenets, ostensibly in order to "respond to some lies" about ISIS circulating in the media. The 18 core tenets outlined in the video are as follows: 1) The requirement to destroy and remove all manifestations of polytheism and to proscribe its means. 2) The rafida [shi'ites] are a community of polytheism and apostasy who prevent the application of many obvious tenets of Islam. 3) The infidelity and apostasy of the sorcerer and the requirement to kill him and not accept his repentance. 4) We do not deem any Muslim commander/leader a kafir [infidel]. 5) The requirement of adjudicating according to Allah's law by way of bringing cases to Shar'iah courts. 6) The requirement to revere the Prophet, peace and blessings upon him. 7) Secularism, patriotism, nationalism, et cetera, are all outright infidelity that removes [a believer] from the religious community. 8) Aiding and assisting the occupier in any form is considered infidelity and apostasy. 9) Jihad in the cause of Allah is religious requirement since the fall of al Andalus [southern Spain]. 10) Civilians who have been defended by the "cannons of disbelief" and have triumphed are considered infidels. 11) The requirement to fight the police and military of the state of apostasy and idol-worship. 12) The jihadi groups working on the field are brothers to us in religion. 13) Any group or individual who enters into an agreement with the occupying invader is not seen as binding on us and instead [any such agreement] is seen as void. 14) The requirement to revere the pure clerics. 15) We recognize the right of those who preceded us in jihad, we take up their home and succeed them with goodness. 16) The requirement to rescue Muslim prisoners from the hands of the infidels and to take care of their families and the families of the martyrs. 17) The requirement that the ummah [Muslim nation] studies the issues of its religion as well as requiring that it learns what is necessary from "worldly knowledge." 18) The proscription of everything that calls for obscenity and we require from women the religious requirement of covering her face and maintain her purity. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sd3GYzyo0cc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd3GYzyo0cc

Latest map of Conflict: oops too big for DV posting I guess... I'll see if I can scale it down...

I'm not sure if this chart is a little dated, but it gives you an idea in terms of contrast regarding the differences in our government structures... Executive authority is unevenly divided between the Presidency Council - comprised of the president and two vice presidents - and the prime minister, deputy prime ministers, and the Council of Ministers, a deliberative body composed of about 40 heads of Iraq's ministries. The relatively powerless president is a Kurd, Jalal Talabani. The lion's share of influence lies with Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki, a Shia with the Dawa Party, and the Council of Ministers, which has its own powers, like debating proposed legislation before it's forwarded to the legislative branch. The various ministers are appointed by Maliki and must be approved by a majority of Parliament, which apportions the positions as political spoils after extensive haggling among members of the various parties that comprise the ruling coalition, or "government list." The process doesn't inevitably result in the most qualified administrators taking charge of the ministries, as priorities are placed on the distribution of political parties and approving candidates who are broadly acceptable. The result is an executive branch of variable competence that is radically divided among various ethnosectarian and political affiliations. Applied to American politics, such a scenario might look like a Republican president's cabinet divided among Republicans, Democrats, Independents, and Libertarians, roughly proportional to their prevalence in Congress. For instance, Iraq's Minister of Municipalities and Public Works is a Shia affiliated with the Supreme Islamic Iraqi Council, the Trade Minister is a Shia with Maliki's Dawa Party, the Defense Minister is an independent Sunni, the Foreign Minister is with the Kurdistan Democratic Party, and the Minister of the Interior is an independent Shia. This structure is designed to force representation from and interaction between Iraq's various religious sects and ethnicities. Ministers, representing various parties, are ostensibly granted great latitude in carrying out the function of their ministry, and have a practical say in overall executive decisions via their membership in the Council of Ministers. These features of the Iraqi Constitution that place a significant amount of power in a collective, rather than in one person, necessarily slow executive action, even as they prevent the dictatorial abuses of Iraq's past.

I got this Dinarian64... is that what you wanted posted:) TBomb, I went to youtube to get the comments from folks for ya... but there's really nothing to cut and paste... Its 3 people asking for a translation (on the video link I saw) If I have the wrong link, let me know and I'll grab it for ya

Have to check the timeline and see if they blamed Iraq first, or if this was in response to Iraq holding them and Saudi totally responsible for this...

Yeah I stared dancing as soon as I saw the title...

LOL LOL Nadita ^5.... though you're the one that really does the totally hard stuff in putting all that news together and distilling it down for us here on DV... day after day... That's the tough stuff...

Here is the link https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ar&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ihec.iq%2Far%2Findex.php%2Fnews-archive%2F6100.html&edit-text= Thanks again TD !!!! and Thank G-d for the NCO !!!! Thanks SnowGlobe... kitty hugs back at ya...

It was in the middle of the page... I actually wanted people to have it as its from the official Iraqi gov't site and has some great info.... Let me go check to make sure it is in there.... Thanks TD!!! BTW, did you climb the chain Oh wow its NOT there... I must have deleted it in my editing of colors to make things clear.... nice find and thanks!! I'll brb with it.

By the way, I'm not sure on any level why this was moved from Iraqi News.... to Opinions and Perspectives? It is not even remotely my opinion or perspective as to how the Iraqi government elects a Prime Minister...It is the exact process they follow as determined by them.. and correctly reflects what is actually happening... .. Which at this point appears to be NEWS to many of the Obi Wan Ka Dopees out there making claims to the contrary... I submit this should be put back in the News section where is belongs... if not indeed pinned in that section for the next month... in giving context to a lot of what we are reading and the discussions of various Iraqi officials in the various news sources we will be seeing in the next month.... And no, I'm not attached to that submission... though would suggest it is more technically correct.... and its all good... .

Well they are all sat except for the 4 who have to be cleared of the criminal charges.... :lol: And I think they are going to be jockeying into the 11th hour to get the necessary numbers to be declared Prime Minister.... Whether or not the ISIS insurrection genuinely impacts the outcome is really yet to be seen And in these early hours, its not real clear that Maliki is being quite as inclusive as the "world" would hope in meeting the challenges of this latest skirmish... However, There's so many moving pieces its hard to say that anyone other than those in the chair really knows what is informing his decisions... and, Its kind of hollow to be calling for inclusiveness at this specific juncture of the election process and within the context of civil warfare on top of it..... In any case, there are no robust people singing at this point.... . .