JJ7

It didn't happen overnight. It happened over the period of time it took for Saddam to print trillions of dinar and spend all the reserves on his war with Kuwait. That didn't happen overnight. And those trillions of dinar are why it can't RV. 65 trillion in M1 IIRC. For someone that talks about history and research it appears you haven't even bothered to read the history of the dinar on the CBIs website. In 1989 they say the black market (street rate) dinar was only worth about 54 cents. It took until 1995 for it to drop all the way to 3000 to 1.

I don't "believe" they're going to lop. They might, they might not. But what I KNOW is that a large RV is impossible. The tens of trillions in dinar in circulation completely prevents it.

Forget about M2. Just look at M1. Does the difference between the two change anything I've said? Does it make an appreciable difference in Iraqs ability to RV? NOPE. Try again.

Vault cash is never considered part of M1. Period. You're completely wrong. Do some research. And SOMO just markets Iraqis oil. The government is who ultimately receives the money. How do you think they pay the budget? You're wrong again. If they go out and print 10 trillion more dinar, does it add to their M2? Why yes, it does. You're very confused. You're also arguing a completely moot point, unless you're going to be so foolish as to argue that there AREN'T tens of trillions of dinar in circulation. Are you?

Uh, no. Even if half their M2 was foreign currency, which it isnt, it still means over 35 trillion of it is dinar, which means no RV. Lol, massive M2 is a good thing. That's a new one. One question. Who gets the proceeds from oil sales in Iraq? Ill give you a hint: it's the government. Now read your definition of M2 again. Particularly this part: excluding central government

IF? Are you honestly saying there might not be trillions of IQD in circulation? Dinar trade sold over 500 billion dinar in 2011 alone. That's one company, in one year. There are hundreds of millions of IQD for sale on eBay each and every day. They've printed massive amounts of 25,000 dinar bills. All these things are facts. There ARE trillions of IQD in circulation, there's no ifs ands or buts, it's a fact. Many gurus say it, when have they been right about anything? Let's do some basic math here: There are 75 trillion IQD in circulation. Say that five trillion are outside the country. Iraq uses over half their reserves (reserves it took them 10 years to build up) and buys back 40 trillion dinar. Is this possible? No. It'd mean there wasn't a single solitary paper dinar in Iraq, plus it'd mean they'd have to make people denominate some digital dinar (i.e. bank balances) in a currency other than dinar as well, because there aren't 40 trillion paper dinar in Iraq to even buy back. It simply is NOT POSSIBLE. But let's pretend for a second it is. Now there's 35 trillion dinar in circulation, 5 trillion of it outside the country. Let's pretend another impossible thing happened, and that they didn't spend any of their reserves to buy these back, so they still have 75 billion in reserves. 75 billion in reserves, M2 of 35 trillion, = they can RV to a whopping 467 to 1. About half a cent per IQD. Whoop de doo. But here's the kicker, since they took IQD OUT of the hands of their own citizens, it means they're putting the extra value INTO the hands of foreigners. Right now, in the above scenario, Iraq has 70 trillion of their IQD in country, at 1166 per, = 60 billion USD worth of their own currency, in their own hands. After your proposed dinar buy back program, they end up with 30 trillion dinar in country, worth 467 per, = 64 billion. BUT, they spent 34 billion buying the dinar off the streets, so the end result is that they end up with 30 billion in their own currency inside Iraq. They just lost 10 billion dollars, and for what? So that foreign currency speculators can make a few dollars. The entire notion of "rounding up dinar in country" MAKES NO SENSE. Iraq would never do it, because it LOSES THEM MONEY. Complete nonsense put out their by gurus that are either liars or enormously ignorant. How many hundreds of billions or trillions of different foreign currencies does the UST currently hold? Not a single one. And they're gonna start with the dinar? The currency of a violent third world toilet with nothing to offer the world except oil and pipe bombs? Why not the CAD? Why not the AUD? Why not the Yuan? Why not gold? Why not silver? Why not virtually ANYTHING but the hyperinflated currency of an unstable and violent country? The entire notion is completely silly, and makes no sense. They can't even sustain 1166 in their own country, the notion that they could sustain a massively higher rate internationally is silly. Look at the M2s and GDPs of Iraqs neighbors. They've been posted on this site numerous times, and are easily Googleable. Iraqs currency is worth exactly what it should be. It isn't undervalued. Your 1 to 1 rate would result in them having a thousand times more currency value than similar countries. Makes no sense. More guru lies. Turkey was far less violent, far less unstable, had a government that actually got things done (unlike Iraq), had inflation under control, and had TEN TIMES the economy of Iraq, and they lopped. China lopped, twice. You going to say that China is a mess now? They're an economic powerhouse. Iceland lopped. France lopped. Taiwan lopped. The notion that every country that lops is a mess like Zimbabwe is nothing more than a guru lie, one that's easily proven false by five minutes of research. Lol, you're right, there AREN'T tens of trillions of dinar in circulation, despite the mountain of proof to the contrary, and instead of spending oil sale proceeds on running the country and, oh, I dunno, food and electricity, they're saving it all so they can make money for foreign currency speculators. You figured it all out. You're going to be a millionaire any day now. You've convinced me.

Sounds like the US should print a few quadrillion dollars, which would mean they could hand out 10 million USD to every man woman and child in the country, and then when the global realignment happens, we're all rich.

What do you think would happen to the value of the USD if the Fed started printing 100 billion USD a day in 10,000 dollar bills? Go down, go up, or stay the same?

No, my math isn't wrong. I didn't say that 750 billion is what they'd need in foreign reserves, I said that's what they'd need to reduce their M2 to. So, 7.5 trillion in reserves. If, tomorrow, they magically created non oil industries exporting 100 billion USD worth of goods a year, and spent NONE of that money on imports, just let it build up in their reserves, it'd take 75 years to hit your .10 value. Is that the kind of timeframe you're looking for?

Why do you think it's undervalued?

1126 to 1. M2 measuring in the quadrillions.

Why would there be a massive amount of foreign demand for the currency of a third world mess with an unstable government and a third rate economy based on nothing but oil? Does this foreign demand exist for any of the other oil countries? If no, then why would it for Iraq? If yes, then why don't they have trillions and trillions of dollars worth of currency in circulation? If they amend their monetary policies to include a lop its "probable." Otherwise it's about as far from probable as you can get. In order for their currency to be worth 10 cents they'd have to have an M2 of around 750 billion dinar. Obviously that is not only not probable, it's not POSSIBLE (without a lop).

Fiat currencies with high values are currencies that are in high demand, from countries with strong economies and stable governments. None of those apply to Iraq. Iraq can't even maintain the 1166 rate inside their own country. They can't even convince their own people that its worth 1166 when it's NOT a fiat currency, How on earth could they convince the entire planet it's worth 10 cents? The answer is simple: they can't. No way, no how. Fractional banking is done by commercial/retail banks. It has nothing to do with central banks and the reserves used to back a currency. Virtually everything written about fractional banking on dinar sites is completely false, information put out there by gurus that are either lying or just ignorant, and then dinarians repeat the lies so many times everyone starts believing them. They really don't have very much gold reserves. And as far as oil, there isn't a single country on the planet that backs their currency with oil in the ground, and for good reason. If Iraq can do it, why isn't anyone else? Why not Saudi? Or Venezuela? There's no IMF support for increasing the IQDs value by 100x, and never will be, because it would result in Iraq having a ludicrous amount of currency value. It just doesn't make any sense.

How much you want to bet I can find posts on this forum made within the last week that say the dinar HAS to RV, and that the worst that can happen is you sell and break even? You're wrong, many investors DO NOT know the downside. And hardly any investors have a realistic grasp on the upside. An RV to even one cent makes no sense and will not happen.

Interesting that you consider trying to help people a waste of time. Says a lot.

I didn't call anyone an idiot, merely asked a question.

Attacking the motives and character of the lobsters is one thing, but if you're not capable of attacking their arguments, you're doing little more than name calling (and committing a logical fallacy). Given that, Darin, what rate are you looking for and what mechanism do you propose can make that rate attainable? Surely you're not here hoping to make 100% over the next decade or two. From what I've seen 99.9% of dinarians think a 10,000% return is "low", and the expected return is more like 100,000%. Are those realistic expectations? Is someone that expects to make 100,000% off of AAPL over the next year or two just being optimistic, or is he an idiot? Is someone that says that's not going to happen being pessimistic? A Debbie downer? Someone that shouldn't be trusted, and should be attacked and derided?

A rumor may or may not be true. A lie is not true. These are examples of lies, not rumors.

As far as you know, eh? Blaming everything on the PTB and Bilderburgs, he's not far off in my opinion. Saying PTB is a cop out. It's a way to justify what has happened or what you want to happen without actually having to use reason or logic or evidence. Why is X happening even though it doesn't make any sense economically? Oh, the PTB will make it happen, and they're the PTB so it doesn't matter if it makes any sense. Why didn't what I said happened actually happen? Oh, the PTB stepped in and stopped it. Saying that the dinar will RV because the PTB want it to is saying NOTHING of value.

Waiting for the Rothschild, prosperity package, and global settlement references that will no doubt be present in Part Two.

http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/bookmarks/fact-checking-and-debunking/curved-print-straight-background/

Not really any point in debating Okie. It wouldn't make a difference to the people that already know he's full of it (except entertainment value), and the people that do believe him are so far gone there's nothing you could say that would change their view one iota.

I checked and it looks like 4 years ago it was .74, and now it's .81. Maybe it's a different currency you're thinking of?

I wonder if Maliki is still trying to get his hands on the reserves.

How much gold did Iraq mine in 2012?