JayP

It's ok bamagirl, I am sure that was the intention. I have read your posts in the past, and I have never seen you be disrespectful of anyone, so I am sure your intentions were just that. My apologies, I guess the comment should have been directed at the post in general, not just your comment, so I apologize if that is how it came across... if so, then I was in the wrong for that

And you said it perfectly right there.... challenge the topics, not the person's character.. at least not until you can prove that the person is definitively wrong or intentionally lied... This is taking aim at the person, not the topic or opinion....

In all fairness, did anyone ask the candidates of this vote if they minded being called out like this. I would find it offensive personally. If they absolutely believe that a redenomination is the only way that this can end, I may disagree with them, but I would not try to shame them, bash them, label them, or be so negative towards them without definitively being able to prove that they intentionally lied to take advantage of their fellow investors, or been able to absolutely prove them wrong first, like we have been able to do with some of the well known "gurus" out there. That is the key difference in my opinion. If one of them started a poll, and asked for a vote as to who the biggest pumper is on this site, and listed your name at the top, would you consider it just a friendly joke? Just a thought, but I am going to guess you would feel slightly offended if they used this site to try and discredit your name on the net as a pumper and a liar, or not having any clue as the only means to being able to make other investors believe only one point of view is correct.

I understand what you are saying, but what I am trying to explain, is that the article took the name of attendees from the Summit Agenda and Timetable. If you can show anything that explains what he talked about, or any quote from him, or any picture of him during the meeting, then we can definitively say that what A/C has stated is wrong, and that this list of names in fact did not come straight from the Agenda as I explained.

ok, I think that is definitely a very good argument, and I cannot disagree with you at all. I have been looking to see if there were any articles that actually stated Shabibi was really there, and with any quotes from what he said, or what he talked about in the meeting. I have not seen any, but if there really were some, then it would be great if we can produce those articles to be able to pass judgement that he was wrong, or lied. Until that point, I think that in all fairness, I need to remain open minded about his opinion until it is proven he was wrong or lied. Just my feeling on the topic that's all If you have any links with any quotes from him, or what he said during the meetings to show he was there, then please share, and in the meantime I will also continue to look for any as well. Thanks! This article you posted took the list of attendee names from the Agenda that I provided. This is where they got that name from. What I would like to see is anything that quotes, or explains what he discussed at the meeting...

Here is the document that I was referring to that was released. This is the 2010 Arab Banking Summit Agenda and Time Table that was released prior to the meeting, when Shabibi was originally scheduled as a speaker at the Summit. This is what the usual suspects of misinformation was using to claim that Shabibi was there, but this was planned well before the issues Shabibi was having in Iraq at the time of the meeting. http://wuabonline.com/WUAB/Resources/Files/ab78c204-1dcb-40af-af63-c094a13a57d8.pdf I have not seen anything to document, or any news to show that he actually ever attended, or that what A/C stated was not correct though...

That is correct. Shabibi was supposed to be there, and then there was a story that came out as well, that said he was not to leave the country during that time, and there was some issues with Shabibi and Maliki regarding the Gov't authority of the CBI as well. There was some question at the time though if Shabibi really did need to remain in Iraq, or if he attended the meeting in Italy, but that was because in the documents regarding the meeting, they had Shabibi listed as a scheduled attendee, so this is where some of the "gurus" were claiming that Shabibi really was there, and tried to make more of the meeting in Italy than what really was, but as you pointed out, the whole in the guru's stories, was that outside of the agenda that was pre-released prior to the event which included Shabibi's name, there was nothing that came out from during the event or after that documented that Shabibi actually attended the meeting. So just to be fair to A/C, I am not sure that we can fairly pass judgement that he was not correct about what he said in that situation, unlike how we can say for the many gurus out there that have been proven to have lied, or been dead wrong on their intel many, many times over the years, but are only followed because they tell people what they want to hear only, and omit some facts just because they know most will never listen to or follow/visit the sites of anyone that has anything to say that may be less than positive news.

Well, I think that this is an outcome that we would all be able to live with, that would still leave a handsome return by any investment standards, so I would be very excited with this type of some sort of a hybrid version of a redenomination!! We all win this way at least The only problem I find with this though, is that while it sounds real nice, what leads you to this conclusion? Is there any sort of evidence or some document that you have come across that would have given you these details to come to this determination? To be able to take this as anything more than a hopeful theory, or to take it into serious consideration, I think it would be good to see what you have that would make us think this was possible. Thanks!! I have long hoped for something like this, but there has just been a lack of evidence that I have seen thus far, so it would be great if you have something you may have found!!

The 27.6 Trillion does not include the notes that are exchanged 1:1 soiled though. In an earlier post I posted how the CBI defines the currency outside of the banks. Here is where they talk about the notes that are issued that makes up the total: "From December 2003, currency in circulation is the new currency issued by the CBI less redemption of old and damaged new currency notes." So while I understand what you are saying, and putting together a nice example with some hypotheticals to show the math, the problem there is that the currency outside of the banks is just that, new notes that they were adding to circulation, and they then take the redemption of old or damaged notes into account for the total issued circulation...

As far as what the rate was prior to the current notes being released, they already devalued the rate to a rate that is actually lower than it is today. By 2002 they already reached 2000:1, and by the end of quarter 1 2003 they were at 2400:1. http://treasury.un.org/operationalrates/Details.aspx?code=IQD&currency=Iraqi+Dinar&country=Iraq The value actually began to fall after the war with Iran, devaluing to around .30 by the time they invaded Kuwait. It was after the invasion that it really then plummeted due to the sanctions, to where the rate was when they exchanged the old Saddam notes and the Swiss Dinar notes for the current notes for a 1 to 1 exchange of Saddam to current, and 150 to 1 for Swiss Dinar to current. So during the time of high inflation, the value of the notes were devaluing. After the exchange, they still suffered from high inflation, and they were printing at a rate of 3 trillion dinars a year adding to circulation, creating the problem they have today with their dinars in circulation.

Anytime.. glad I can help!!

To answer your question quite specifically, the answer is actually not any. The 27.6 trillion in circulation outside the banks consist of the smallest note of the 50s, and nothing smaller. Please see page 17 of this document in this link: http://www.cbi.iq/documents/Annual_2010f.pdf This will show you exactly how many of each note was issued. The figures in this report are in the billions, so the total notes issued as of the end of 2010 was 27.5 Trillion (total column for issued currency). Using this document you can see exactly how many of each denomination was issued. Dividing the total of each denomination of currency issued by the denomination amount will then tell you how many of each note was issued in the billions as well. I hope this information helps answer the question. I am eagerly waiting to see the 2011 report published, so we will see what that report says when it is released. Based on the CBI key indicators, I would not expect to see much different, but I am always hopeful! mcjocky1.. the money outside of the banks actually does not include the cash in any vaults. Here is how the CBI defines currency outside the banks: a - Currency outside banks, i.e., the currency component of the money supply as shown in the Analytical Balance sheet (Item 8) which is derived from the following sources (currency put into circulation reported by Issuing Dept. less vault cash(item 8.1 of Analytical Balance Sheet) reported by Research & Statistics Dept.). From December 2003, currency in circulation is the new currency issued by the CBI less redemption of old and damaged new currency notes. Prior to October 2003, currency in circulation is all Iraqi Dinar (other than the 25 swiss Dinar notes) issued by the CBI (both Swiss and Saddam Dinar at face value) less redemption of old and damaged notes and issued currency in vaults of CBI. Page 2 of: http://www.cbi.iq/documents/Key_Financial_Indicators_Documentation.pdf Hope this was helpful...

!!!! That was a funny analogy, but spot on I think!! On another note though, this article is definitely something promising that is related to this budget topic that I did like to see though.. http://www.alsabaah.com/ArticleShow.aspx?ID=22263 "Today’s vote on the budget after the agreement on exchange of grants for pensioners and supporting the development of the regions of Baghdad – Alaa al-Tai government has allocated six trillion dinars for the launch of different loans, mostly without the benefit and the other away from the operations, “usury”, in a move aimed at supporting segments of society." That is definitely the type of thing I like to see! More money being allocated for loans is a wonderful thing, and is definitely a step in the right direction for their economy! This is the type of information I like to see coming out of the budgets!!

Well said... and moving forward is at least the right direction as opposed to backwards!!

Yes.. thank you. This is a good article, but the point being is that this does not mean that this automatically means that Shabibi will take advantage of this optional measure to curb inflation, although, regardless of the budget he certainly always has the option to do so. I think that it is important to put the article that you posted into perspective, and to not take it out of context. In the 2011 articles regarding the budget last year, they are discussing inflation, and measures they have to combat inflation, which as we know is the use of the exchange rate policies. The core inflation rate is only about 6% currently, and they have not discussed the concerns about rising inflation as they were last year, but it is still certainly something to consider. It is for this reason that I say we should not get ourselves over hyped about the annual budget trap these sites fall into, but rather look to inflation if we are going to go by these articles. Is inflation rising to a worrisome point where they would need to take corrective measures through the exchange rate policies to combat it? That should be the question and detail we should look to at this point rather than the budget approval in my opinion....

O ye, of little faith... well, I guess I can understand the concerns there at this point.. lol!

Thanks Tony... Is there a link for this article? As I read this, that is for 2011, not this years budget. What does this have to do with this year? They approved and implemented the budget last year with no exchange rate, but I think that to be able to give a fair analysis of this, I would need to see the actual article and link. Thanks!!

So, here is a question...and please do not get upset with me for asking and giving my opinion based on experience, because that is all that it is, and maybe I have missed something, but I have been watching for years now, and each year people get excited when the budget is approved, and each year it has no affect on the currency exchange rate, and I believe rightfully so because there is nothing to indicate that there is a direct correlation between the budget and a country going to RV. Is there something different about this budget that differentiates itself from previous budgets approved? Unfortunately from what I have been able to tell there has not been anything that would tell us that this budget is different. If this budget comes and goes just as it did in years past, I really hope that we will be able to put the annual budget hype to rest so that we can focus our excitement and attention on matters that we should be looking to for indications of what may be in store for our investment

Thanks for the post. This is good info. I do not see Iraq wanting to devalue their currency. If anything, any change that they make I do believe would be to increase the value, regardless if it slowly gains in value over time as the economy grows and strengthens, or if they redenominate, and then slowly grow the rate even further with the new rate for the newly released unit of currency. I just do not see any advantages for them to have a need to further devalue their currency again though, and that is a positive thing for our investment one way or the other.

More info on the Mexican banknotes from the 1992 change as well: http://www.banxico.org.mx/billetes-y-monedas/material-educativo/basico/%7B73BFFBA0-A0FD-EA40-4B0F-9F9938929289%7D.pdf Page 13 "In order to simplify the management of national currency amounts, by decree of June 18, 1992, it created a new monetary system unit of the United Mexican States, equivalent to one thousand dollars of the previous unit. Contrary to the previous currency, the new is temporarily placed before the adjective "new", which was eliminated after 1996. The Bank of Mexico issued during 1992, a new series of banknotes in denominations of 10, 20, 50, and 100 in which appears the word "new" prefixed to the name of the unit. These notes, known as Type B tickets are characterized by keeping the design of the previous bills."

In Mexico, they actually released the new currency in 1993, allowing for a 3 year exchange from 1/1/93 until 1/1/96. The new notes began printing in July 1992, and was released 1/1/93. The exchange was done by deleting 3 zeros from the currency, and exchanging 1000:1, 1000 old peso (MXP) for 1 new peso (the Nuevo Peso) (MXN). This was a redenomination. The new Pesos was initially the 1, 2, 5, and 10 I believe, and they also had a 5, 10, 20, centavos (cents). By 1996 they then released 2 additional denominations, a 20 and a 50, and after 1996, the word "NUEVO" was removed from the notes. This is the link for the Bank of Mexico: http://www.banxico.org.mx/billetes-y-monedas/billetes-monedas-material-edu.html Here is a link in the Bank of Mexico site that gives the history of the Mexican Currency: http://www.banxico.org.mx/billetes-y-monedas/material-educativo/basico/%7B2F8E3719-748C-0954-CCC7-DE85FC684035%7D.pdf Page 22 talks about the currency change in 1992. It is in Spanish so it would need to be translated. Here is what is says in English: By 1992, the design another series of coins in denominations of ten, five, two and a weight and cinuenta, twenty, ten and five cents, as a result of the creation of a new unit of the Monetary System of the United Mexican States equivalent to thousand dollars of the previous unit. The new unit I keep the name of "weight" and was adopted in order to facilitate the understanding and management of National Currency Converter quantities, so as to facilitate a more efficient use of computer systems and accounting records. Contrary to the previous currency, the new unit is the prefixed, temporarily, the adjective "new", whose use was eliminated after 1996. Subsequently, two other pieces minted with silver center in denominations of twenty with the effigy Hidalgo, and fifty new pesos, with the Children's Heroes. As far as the buying power in Iraq, a term I have commonly heard used to explain this, is that it takes about 1000 dinar currently to purchase 2 cans of soda, so they would need a 1000 dinar note for this, or about .86 to 1.00 USD based on the exchange rate. I hope this information is helpful.

Congrats Keepm!! No emotional ride or rewards will ever be able to equal to what growing as a father along with your daughter will bring you!!

".00086 [ current value ] becomes .86 [new value ] they have to do this so that the new small demon's have any purchasing power" I would be ok with this if it were the only change!!

Hello DAME1.. here are just a few quotes that would lead someone to say what hoopdog is saying. It is a fact that these quotes were said by representatives of the CBI, Govt, etc, but nothing is definite until the CBI officially states that they have made the final determination, and actually release new notes stating they are deleting the zeros and we need to exchange them for the new notes 1000:1 as stated quoted below.... "And delete the zeros, said the central bank adviser: The category Iraqi monetary deleted, including three zeros, viz (1,000) "thousand dinars," becomes "one dinar" only, as do other categories, and we will exchange large and small" http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dnahrain%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3Dbh9%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ar&u=http://xendan.org/arabic/drejaA.aspx%3F%3Dhewal%26jmara%3D2897%26Jor%3D2 "will be implemented after two years from now, adding that he will include the publication of three large groups: the (200 ) dinars, equivalent to (200) thousand dinars currently, and the category (100) dinars, equivalent to (100) thousand dinars, while the third category (50) dinars, equivalent to (50) thousand dinars, the currency of the current" http://www.iraqdirectory.com/DisplayNews.aspx?id=18126 "Saleh added that "the three categories include 200 dinars, which is equal to 200 thousand dinars at the present time and the category of 100 dinars, which is equal to 100 thousand dinars, and the category of 50 dinars, which is equal to 50 thousand dinars" http://alrayy.com/40302.htm "Iraq Said To Be Planning Currency Overhaul, Redenomination" "In the longer term, Saleh said a redenomination was needed wherein three zeros will be dropped so that the 25,000-dinar banknote -- currently the largest denomination -- becomes a 25-dinar note." http://www.rferl.org/content/iraq_said_planning_currency_overhaul_redenomination/24245867.html "And he said that it "will soon be a new currency through the issuance and cancellation of three zeros from the new currency." http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=&to=en&a=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aknews.com%2Far%2Faknews%2F2%2F273657%2F "Jubouri: "The process of switching the operation result of the deletion of zeros will cost approximately $ 150 million and Stsamar the switch for two years, including six months to provide the services necessary for the currency and a printer and a half years to change them gradually through the deal." "Adding that the purchasing power of the new currency will be as it is not undergone any change." http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dnahrain%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3Dbh9%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ar&twu=1&u=http://alrayy.com/30637.htm Saleh said that "the deletion of zeros and Exchange is the process of administrative reform of the Iraqi currency and therefore does not affect the value of things or change of per capita income," he said, adding that "the fear of people from deleting zeroes longer fearing psychologically, as the deletion of zeros and the currency switch applied in 53 countries including Turkey when removed six zeros from the currency and Romania which omitted four zeroes." http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?ref=Internal&from=&to=en&a=http://www.alsumarianews.com/ar/3/28598/news-details-Iraq%20business%20news.html

fair enough.. I can respect that at least, thanks for recognizing my point, and where we have some common ground