JayP

J769, I can respond in the same antagonistic manner as the pumpers since this is their only means to try and discredit those that say something different,, but I will not do so. Instead, I will take the high road and provide the details from other countries that spoke of the same, some of which is from nations that Iraq specifically pointed to. I do appreciate that Stryker in an earlier post took the time to at least break down his thought process, and I will give him credit for the efforts there at least... "Zimbabwe will re-denominate its dollar by removing 10 zeros from August 1, central bank Governor Gideon Gono said on Wednesday. " ""The Zimbabwe dollar will be redenominated by a factor of one to 10, which means we are removing ten zeros from our monetary value. Ten billion [Zimbabwean] dollars today [Wednesday] will be reduced to one dollar with effective from August 1," ""The new currency will co-circulate together with the family of bearer cheques ... which shall cease to be legal tender on the December 31 2008," Gono said." http://mg.co.za/article/2008-07-30-zim-to-lop-10-zeros-off-currency That article sounds quite familiar to those that we have been reading doesn't it? Maybe someone can break this article down for us to explain how the redenomination that occurred was a figment of our imagination, and what they are talking about here could not have possibly been a redenomination. They spoke about the notes co-existing, and about removing the zeros. Maybe a good explanation of how what they mean in this article is different than what we have been reading is in order. Here is the article from Romania: "1 July 2005 (RFE/RL) -- Romania today eliminates four zeros from its currency, the leu, as part of efforts to prepare the economy for European Union accession, expected in 2007." Here we can see they are saying eliminates, not removing as was quoted from the Zimbabwe article. Both used different verbiage, so does that mean that one of them did not happen? Maybe someone can explain to us how this is different than the Zimbabwe article. http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1059616.html Here, another line from the Romanian article above, a country that Iraq does point to as an example: "The new bills and coins will circulate in parallel with the old ones until the end of 2006" This is another statement quite similar to what we have heard in both the Zimbabwe and Iraqi articles. Maybe someone can explain away how this is different than Iraq and Zimbabwe stating that the notes would co-exist. In case someone tries to say that what Romania did is any different, here is a quote from the law that was passed for the redenomination in Iraq: "Art.4. (1) Starting 1 March 2005 up to 30 June 2006, the prices and tariffs of goods and services shall be displayed in both old and new currency. " This is what they mean by the notes co-existing, or circulating in parallel of each other. "Draft legislation to redenominate Indonesia's currency is expected to gain momentum this year as lawmakers and monetary authorities push to drop the last three zeros from the nominal value of the rupiah." Here Indonesia refers to their redenomination as dropping the zeros. Once again, a different word is used, but it is clear what they are referring to. Maybe someone can explain how this is different than what we have read in Iraq, Zimbabwe, and Romania so far. Was a redenomination there a figment of our imaginations, or is there something else we have missed? http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/NA20Ae01.html The article then also states: "The central bank, Bank Indonesia, has backed the move for various reasons, including the need to simplify accounting standards for transactions" Does this verbiage sound at all familiar to anyone here? Here is another statement made in the article above: "During the proposed transition period, prices of goods would be labelled with both the old and new rupiah rates." Once again, they talk about how the prices would be shown in both the old and the new currency. It then goes on to state: "Old notes would later be recalled and replaced by new notes where one rupiah would be equivalent to 1,000 of the old bills, according to the proposed plan." So you can see, the old notes are later going to be recalled, meaning that they old and the new notes would co-exist. Once again, something very familiar to those of us paying attention to what the CBI has really been saying, but maybe someone can explain how this verbiage in this instance means something different. Let me provide another quote that adds to the above thought, and it goes on to say: "It's not an overnight change. Bank Indonesia has planned to have a transition period that may run for years in which both currencies - existing rupiah and new rupiah - are accepted as legal tender. Consequently, the public will have time to accept the new currency," I think that it is abundantly clear what it means when a nation states that the old and new notes would co-exist, but I will let you guys make up your minds on that. Iraq has referred to Turkey as an example as well, so in case anyone may say that Indonesia is different, then here is another quote from the same article: "Martumpal notes that Turkey dropped five zeroes from the lira and had two currencies in circulation for four years before dropping the word "new" from the replacement currency in 2009. Turkey has often been cited as a success in using redenomination to fight inflation and simplify economic transactions that were previously denominated in terms of billions, trillions and even quadrillions, Martumpal notes. : Sounds quite familiar to the references that Iraq has made to Romania, Turkey, and Brazil in the article we are discussing, wouldn't you agree? Regarding the pumpers distorted information regarding a redenomination being a devaluation, here is another quote: "The key to avoiding a sudden currency devaluation during redenomination is public education, according to Johannes Ginting, a market analyst at Monex Investindo Futures. "Preparing the public to accept the new rupiah will take time. During the transition period, prices of goods have to be clearly marked with two currencies to ensure that psychologically people will understand that the value of their money has not dropped," he said." This is again another point that Iraq has discussed in the past, reassuring the citizens that this change would not affect their purchase power, and will allow for it to increase. Since I mentioned Turkey above, here is an article discussing Turkey: "That is when the government drops six zeros from the national currency" Here they use the term drops. Is this different than eliminates, removes, deletes, all of which we have seen by nations that have discussed their redenominations? http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2004/dec/31/turkey-will-lop-six-zeros-from-its-currency-at/ Here is a definition of what a redenomination is as per the central bank of Nigeria in discussing their plans: "What is currency redenomination? Currency redenomination is the process where a new unit of money replaces the old unit with a certain ratio. It is achieved by removing zeros from a currency or moving some decimal points to the left, with the aim of correcting perceived misalignment in the currency and pricing structure, and enhancing the credibility of the local currency. " Here they use the verbiage remove, so does this mean that the countries that used eliminate, or drop did not redenominate??? I think that history will tell us otherwise. http://www.cenbank.org/redenomination/newpolicy.asp Let me leave with this one as well. I think that this was a wonderful document to help those that truly wish to educate themselves on all possibilities, and what a redenomination is. I would recommend taking the time to read it: http://www.unc.edu/~lmosley/APSA%202005.pdf I would caution those that may listen to those that play word games, and try to distort details with word play, and trying to redefine what an article is saying, because we can clearly see based on this that the use of deleting, removing, eliminating, dropping, ALL refers to a redenomination. Let us not forget this article, that also speaks of Iraq's plans to delete zeros, and the very title of the document: "Iraq Said To Be Planning Currency Overhaul, Redenomination " http://www.rferl.org/content/iraq_said_planning_currency_overhaul_redenomination/24245867.html Are we to ignore this article??

Well, that is a great point. They state it in the quote you posted right there. "I think that the lifting of the zeroes from the currency will increase confidence in the currency, and will lead to increased purchasing power of citizens" This person believes that lifting the zeros will increase confidence, and 'WILL" lead to increased purchase power. This means that initially it may be a revenue neutral event, but by creating more confidence and use of the Dinar over the dollar in the markets, it will lead to a gain in value over time if not immediately at the same time as the implementation of the deletion of the zeros. So if they initially begin with .86, then it can eventually increase more over time, and eventually, if not right away make it's way to the dollar, if not higher. This is actually a very positive statement, as this person believes that it will have more purchasing power. This is what I am hoping for in this, that even if they were to redenominate, and the new currency having a rate of .86, that we will still stand to make a profit over time, even if we need to exchange our notes 1000 to 1 old for new. I will be happy with whatever gains I make on this investment, as long as it does not result in a loss in the end.

Do you have anything where he stated that as so? That would be great to see. There are plenty out there including today where they state that they currently have the strongest currency which is true since they are backed 100% by reserves... that is what they are referring to though when they say that..

See... there you go again with the insults and bashing rather than useful discussion. Let me ask, what do you have to gain by labeling people names just because you do not like hearing facts. The truth is, the things that YOU gave stated have all been heard as well by the likes of Okie, GET team, and the rest of the pumpers out there. You have yet to provide any useful feedback with any evidence oth evidence to support how I have been wrong in anything. I am here for information, and would appreciate some useful information and evidence to help us figure this all out one way or the other, minus the hype and pumping. That said... as I have asked previously, do you have any evidence to support that I am wrong in anything I have stated or is labeling people and name calling the only thing you have to discredit someone. Have you considered proving me wrong and if you cannot than maybe consider that there may be something to what I have been trying to tell you....

Well said.. thanks Bumper Thank you for the support Kimberlye... much appreciated.. it is a team effort of everyone of us taking the effort to help each other learn from one another..

Stryker.. now it is you that is egging on a debate that is not in good hearted in nature here. Please, either provide some facts, or please quit prodding, and then turning to Bumper to support you. When you start with the "lopster" name, childish name calling, it suggests to me that you seem to take it personal when someone is sharing facts that can be supported, and you need to resort to insults when you hear something you do not like. Let's just say we obviously agree to disagree, but both points are welcome, and I am welcome to accept all points that can be supported.

Understood, thank you. Let's just get back the topic at hand, rather than everyone taking things personally. The fact is, the article this post is about is regarding the rate going up, and they will delete the zeros to do so, and points out countries such as Brazil, Turkey, and Romania. This is not something that we should be excited about, but what we can be thankful for, is that they have not yet made a final decision to move forward with that plan, so in all reality, we at this point are still looking good. Let's just keep hoping it continues that way, and they decide not to delete the zeros.

Zig.. just to be clear, I got involved in this discussion when I saw people were excited to hear about them talking about deleting zeros. SO, you are saying that telling people what deleting zeros actually means, and what we should be looking for is actually not allowed, so this is not the place, as opposed to what, only pumping allowed here? I am sorry, but I fail to see the logic to that. Only posters allowed are those that pump and do not agree with misinformation. I provided my facts, and provided the details to explain my position on this matter, and have been open to accepting additional info from others that shows my definition is incorrect, and yet, you or anyone else that has told me I do not have a right to respond unless I am pumping, have yet to provide any proof of your position that I am wrong. I do apologize if you do not like my information if it is not what you want to hear though, and for those that have been open to a rationale discussion to get to the facts, I appreciate both your responses and your input. I like to think this site was here to help get to the facts

That is too bad. Someone that had every opportunity on this earth, and just squandered it all away with poor decisions. Way to young indeed..

Stryker.. relax, no need to get upset here. I only stated the facts that have happened, nothing more. Is there a reason that people should not be told about that? Is there a reason that you do not want to be put out there? I will however refrain from insults if you would do the same. You have insulted and called names to everyone that has stated facts that prove that the definition of deleting zeros is what it is. If you state I am wrong, please provide the information to show me how what I have stated is incorrect, and I would appreciate it, but no need for name calling, and bad feelings. Nothing wrong with sharing info back and forth and providing info to support it.

I am notsure who ridewithme38 is, nor ever heard of him, but if he had a problem with the gurus that have been less than truthful with people for personal gain by taking money from people, not telling them that services they are pumping is actually owned by the guru.. then I say.. good for that person for pointing it out. Yes, I do admit though, when I see a delete zero articles, and see people getting excited thinking this is a good thing, I do make it known that they are mistaken so that we can all better be educated about this, and we can then get the people that are less than truthful about this topic to not have the ability to do what they do. The more that are aware of these facts, the better off we are, so that we can start focusing more on the things that are more important to our investment, rather than getting excited over something that is not in our best interest. Nice easyrider.. Ignore the facts.. listen to the pumpers.. not the brightest investment strategy I have heard so far.... Show me one of the pumpers that have said that deleting the zeros is a good thing for us, and have provided any proof of it. Do you not find it odd that none of them have?? Rather bizarre I think...

Not sure zigmeister.. the funny thing, is that I was only responding to a post where other people were telling people to listen to pumpers that have been proven to lie to people to take advantage of them, so are you saying that only those that are here to be pumpers and to promote pumpers are allowed to tell people who is ok to listen to? Well, I think that if I know about someone that has lied, I feel a sense of responsibility to tell people about that when someone else is telling people to listen to this person. As far as other hobbies, guess what, you are here responding on this post for as long as I The other thing I would like to know.. since you are defending this person that has lied, and it has been a proven fact, what reason or rationale would you have to defend his actions, and then tell me I am wrong for pointing this fact out?

That is a real shame that you think that way. You speak of Breitling as being someone to listen to and trust, meanwhile, it was him that was partially responsible for people incurring higher costs of initial investment, based on his advice that smaller notes would be a safe insurance policy, meanwhile, it was proven, that if they redenominate, it would in fact apply to ALL notes, not just the larger, and he back pedaled on that whole thing. Then there was the ISX debacle.He would tell people to sign up for this service that he was recommending where people to buy an ISX Report. Well, what he failed to tell people, was that the company that people were sending the money to, was actually a company owned by.... none other than Breitling. He was giving advice, having people buy a product, and failed to mention that it was his company that was taking the money. I do believe that it was reported right here on DV as well. here is the link: Another thing he tried to tell people was that they already removed 70% of the dinar from circulation. He stated that for all of 2010. I waited to see the 2010 Annual Bulletin, and low and behold, it was not true, and the CBI reports showed no indication that was true at all. Unfortunately these people get caught in lie, after lie, and yet people follow blindly. People then often wonder and ask why these people do this, why they continually are able to do this over and over, and it is people that put folks like him and the others on a pedestal. My recommendation if you listen to his blogspot show, is that you write in to him, ask him about what transpired with the ISX thing after reading the DV post I provided. See if he is willing to address it, and if he ignores it, and does not even address it, then that should tell you enough right there. I think we need to wise up, and quit giving the people that are out to take advantage of others justification to continue doing what they do to people. It is all there to see what people like Breitling, another site, Okie, etc have been up to. When a person is caught in an outright lie to make money off of naive investors, why would we continue to follow him?

Stryker Well, if that were somehow to magically happen, I will be happy to do my fair share where it is needed, I am not a greedy man. In the meantime though, rather than telling me to sell lopster somewhere else, maybe you should consider pumping hype with Okie if you only want to view this investment as a guarantee, with no risks of redenomination. They LOVE that stuff over there, but I think that there are plenty here that love to learn the facts and truth here in this place. Yota691.. I am not sure I understand what it is that you are asking for here, but the quote came from the article that you posted. It is the 4th paragraph down in the article that this post is about: "And about the fears rigging of the new currency in the event were issued or it will affect negatively on the economic situation, responded in favor: that it reflects the look bleak, do not forget that there are other countries proceeded to switch its currency and dropped them zeros, such as Turkey, Romania and Brazil without being its economy to shocks and thus Iraq is not engaged in an unknown water or walking on the road did not knock him one before is likely to include the new currency for the population to the side of a coin paper." Read more: I hope that helps, or is what you were looking for....

Hi Mazzz! Yes, I heard about that as well. There was apparently and article that talked about the salaries and showed the Dinars and Dollars, and someone did the math saying that it came to 972:1. I would definitely love to see that, but I do withhold any excitement on that until I actually see a rate change on the CBI website though. We will definitely know by Monday if that is true, or just another thing that we see them do from time to time when talking about the current rate. I guess we will see come tomorrow or Monday, but it would definitely be a great step in the right direction.

Thanks FrecklesFuzz!! This is an old article, but it was a great one. I am hoping that the views and opinions of the author of that article are realized by the CBI as well. The govt seems to think along the lines of the author of this article, finding that the benefits are not enough to justify the efforts and risks in the process of implementing the deletion of the zeros from the currency. What we WANT to see, is more articles like this one come out, and maybe we will one day see something where the CBI will share the same sentiments as the Govt, and opt not to pursue this plan to redenominate any further. The other thing that is important to note about this article, is that they talk about redenomination, and then also talk in there about the exhcange of the old for new notes 1 new for 1000 old. This proves exactly what the definition of deleting, knocking off, eliminating, removing, etc. zeros means. This is also an Iraqi article, not an article from other nations, since others may have felt that the other nations that the CBI has been quoted as using as a reference of examples is not relevant. Here is another article where they discuss deleting zeros, and call it a redenomination when talking about Iraq: http://www.rferl.org/content/iraq_said_planning_currency_overhaul_redenomination/24245867.html

Fair enough caz1104.. I hope there are no ill feelings then, as I think that this is a very important discussion for all sides to think about. I know where you were going with the baseball analogy, so my apologies if I sounded like I was taking that point from you. You are right as well, this deletion of the zeros, is only something that MAY happen is what I am saying, they have definitely not settled on this being the final result of our investment, but, please remember the history of those countries are in fact critical points, because it is Iraq that has pointed out the history of what they did to explain what the CBI desires to do, and for that reason, the history of those nations they point to, is important to look at and discuss. That is all I have been trying to say. Deleting zeros is not good for us, but it would still not mean that we would lose completely in this investment though. Long term, there is potential regardless of how much can be made, or how long it would take to make the returns that is realistic.

Hence the reason that I point to the history of these nations, because they too also spoke of deleting zeros which they did, which was a redenomination. I was told that the history is not relevant, meanwhile, even they pointed out that Turkey, Brazil, and Romania is who they looked to as examples. In each case, these countries redenominated, which is what they were referring to when they talked about deleting zeros prior to implementing the project inn their respective nations.

That is not necessarily true, because some nations will examine the option, discuss, and take a decade after inflation has been mitigated before they take the step to redenominate. It does not always happen right away a year or so following the inflationary period.

Ah yes, the old fashioned, do you own dinar line.. Love that one.. For the record, yes, and I hope to break even on it. I do hope that as elixerbaby pointed out, maybe they will decide NOT to delete zeros, and maybe it will one day have some realistic chance of getting to .10 or even close to it, but in the meantime, I also did not buy into this with hopes of making this my lottery ticket, and think that doubling my money or tripling it one day even if they redenominated (which is possible I think), I would be perfectly happy with. I looked at this as any other currency, using common sense logic and realistic expectations.

hmmmm... "can someone give JayP a pill", then say "best to all"... And what I said was idiotic??? lol Look, I will not take it to your level on insults about analogies, but all I will say is that you cannot compare the definition of what "deletion of zeros" to a baseball team that changes every year. The fact is, deletion of zeros has a specific meaning, and that you cannot change regardless of what changes Iraq makes. Based on the changes in Iraq, they may or may not choose to delete the zeros, but it still does not change the meaning of that terminology. That is my point I am trying to make. When we see these articles about the deletion of zeros, because of pumpers that lie to people telling them that this is a good thing for us, people get excited, when the reality is, the definition of deleting zeros is in fact a redenomination, and you, and anyone else that chooses to take the liberty of changing that definition has yet to provide proof that your definition is correct. oh yeah.. Best to all

My apologies if I got you all wrong, I provided details to support my statements, and the history to prove what it means when a country uses the terminology "deletion of zeros", so it would be pumping if we are saying that these facts, and history that proves what deletion of zeros means is not allowed, or should be somewhere else because we want people to get pumped or hyped because there is a misconception about what deletion of zeros means.. well, that would be pumping. As far as my links, if they been here a hundred, they will be here a hundred more until one of the pumpers proves how they are wrong, and how deleting zeros terminology somehow can be redefined. As far as the resources, sure, there are a lot of resources of oil in Iraq, getting it out of the ground is entirely different. Addtionally, the GDP of Iraq is only around 3500.00 per capita, and that is a pretty important fact. All the resources does nothing, if it cannot help you. Also, even if they were to start pumping, and even got to a point some time down the road to equal the production of Saudi Arabia, I think that you need to look at the amount of money in circulation. There is no way that they can take 27.6 Trillion in circulation, or over 60 Trillion in M2, and magically give it a rate near a dollar (which is what they are talking about in this article) out of thin air. Name a single country in the world with a money supply equivalent to Iraq, that has a rate near a penny, no less a dollar. Look at Saudi Arabia, they too have Oil.. what is their money supply? So, if someone takes a cyanide pill and dies, without knowing the chemical compound, should we just ignore what happened to the guy behind us, and say that history belongs in the past, close our eyes, and pop the pill? I would think not, and should probably look at what the past results were when we try to figure out what cyanide is, and what it can do to a person. This is no different, I think that even if you do not know what deletion of zeros means, you should look at past history to tell you what other countries do when they "deleted zeros". I think that history is a very important thing to learn when looking to what the future may bring I agree with you about the pumpers or reverse pumping.. nobody is harmed in the opinions, and all opinions should be welcome, especially those that can be supported based on historical facts. I also welcome anyone to show how this definition of deleting zeros can be re-defined by Dinar Investor websites and forums as well.

Hi elixerbaby.. you are sort of right here, because the rate is because of sanctions, and wars over years. That did that not happen as a result of the current currency though, and the actions that they took put them in a position to want to delete the zeros in order to get back to a rate near a dollar. Here is a link that will give you the history of their rates, and you can see that the rate they have, is actually much higher than what it was well before we invaded Iraq and the current currency was put into place: http://treasury.un.org/operationalrates/Details.aspx?code=IQD&currency=Iraqi+Dinar&country=Iraq That will give you the rates for even well before we invaded. Their currency actually started the decline well before they invaded Kuwait in 1990, where their rate dropped to round .30, and then after 1990 Kuwaiti invasion, it was then pummeled by the sanctions, and suffered hyperinflation. Here is a chart that shows the history of the inflation in Iraq, and you can see they absolutely suffered hyperinflation, which is why they have the circulation they do today: http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=iz&v=71 As a result, they printed currency like crazy and added the zeros to the notes. Now that inflation has been mitigated, they still have the zeros, so in order to have a rate near the dollar again, they need to delete those zeros, which is what a redenomination is. Sure, maybe they will not Rd though, and maybe they will allow a slow climb making minor adjustements as necessary, and that would be ideal. I agree though, even at .10, that would be an amazing return, but they would still need to address the massive amount of currency in circulation now before they would even get to .10.

Sorry Yota.. but it belongs here. Unless your are trying to insinuate that the only people that should reply are pumpers and people who want to create hype? I think that a fair, balanced, realistic opinions that can be supported by facts, and historical references is relevant here. Now, if all you want is pumpers and lies... please take it to sites such as Okie's and the like where you will get fed nothing but lies where facts are never allowed. You can have all the lies until your heart desires there for you In the meantime, please see my comment, and if you can provide a definition that I asked for that contradicts what I said, I would not recommend bashing. If you can in fact provide a definition with historical facts or evidence to support what I stated is wrong, I will respectfully admit that what I stated is wrong, and say thank you for the clarification.

Well, unless that is if someone can provide for us a definition of what it means when a country "deletes zeros". Here are the examples of other counties that deleted zeros: http://mg.co.za/article/2008-07-30-zim-to-lop-10-zeros-off-currency http://www.cenbank.org/redenomination/newpolicy.asp http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1059616.html https://www.isdadocs.org/speeches/memopdf/Redenomination-Memo-061405.pdf http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2004/dec/31/turkey-will-lop-six-zeros-from-its-currency-at/ All of the nations in the articles above that deleted zeros redenominated. I have been looking to see if there is any precedence or history of a country that suffered years of hyperinflation and had to add the zeros, and were able to delete zeros from the rate without also the currency. If anyone can show this, or to show the deletion of zeros is anything other than a RD for us, then that would be greatly appreciated, and something worth getting excited about thinking that this is a good thing for us. Until then, I think we should stick with the facts, and what the definition of deletion of zeros is to stay grounded and realistic.