Guest views are now limited to 12 pages. If you get an "Error" message, just sign in! If you need to create an account, click here.

Jump to content
  • CRYPTO REWARDS!

    Full endorsement on this opportunity - but it's limited, so get in while you can!

Russian Move Against US Called “First Shot” Of World War III


suzieQ
 Share

Recommended Posts

Poke Salad Annie, you asked why it is a bad idea to protect Israel from an anti-humanist government in Iran. Our media does not show what Israel does to the non-Jew in the West Bank and in Israel. We are fed that it is a democracy. I have visited there many times and spent time with the Jews who are trying to raise the issues of discrimination against the Bedouins who have been shoved onto a toxic dump in the Negev south of Jerusalem. There are Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem that are being bulldozed. 25% of children, women, adult men in the West Bank are imprisoned in their lifetime and can be taken off the street for nothing. In the West Bank roads are built that only Jews can travel on with white license plates....apartheid. Palestinian Christians and Muslims are cut off from their water, land, homes, jobs, schools, hospitals, families by the Wall and these roads. Arabs in Israel are given water once per week to store in tanks on top of their houses while Jews in settlements have water for pools, bushes and gardens 24/7 in the West Bank. Over 20,000 buildings including hospitals and schools were bombed in Gaza and now there is a blockade by Israel on medical and building supplies stopping all boats from bringing them in to Gaza. Americans need to look deeper. This is NOT a DEMOCRACY that we say we are supporting. Do not be tricked into supporting another war on behalf of Israel. It is not in Israel's best interest to support her behaviors that get her hated in her neighborhood. The best protection for the Jews there is to encourage that government to act with justice toward its citizens and the Palestinians. That means cutting off our funding of this government until it acts in just ways. We provide billions per year to Israel that supports the military acting in these ways and building the Wall. You must think what that does to the neighbors around Israel as they see us talk about bringing democracy to the region. It is bringing an Occupation to people who used to live in the full area of the land in 1948

I do hear you. It is not my intention to reopen the whole who did what to whom since 1948 on the West bank. Israel is so far outnumbered that of course her only hope for survival is to make peace with her neighbors. But those same neighbors know that they don't have to make peace at all. They can just bury her. And they have repeatedly stated that that is their intention. Let's understand Israel in contet. Of course Israel is behaving in paranoid ways. She really has enemies. But all of Israel's significant, internal social problems, that must be solved, do not change the fact that Iran is a deadly threat to THIS country. And Israel is our strongest ally in THAT region. And, hey Maggie, I support THIS country!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry, but the US and Russia would never go to war with one another. That is a fact! There is something called "mutually assured destruction" that would have to factor into the equation, you know. Iran is the only variable in this equation that could spark another world war, but the US and Russia would never be against each other. That is commons sense.

And somewhere in the US and/or Russia and/or any other country with even one nuclear bomb, there is a place where maybe like a triple set of keys and a double set of buttons will trigger THE switch that launches ONE missile. And it doesn't matter which country that missile comes from or goes to. The opposite number in this "mutually assured destruction equation you mention will access another part of the equation ... retaliation.

From there ... you know what it will be.

Now, will there be that initial missile launch? Can you find, in the ranks of those people with such sensitive access, a minimum of one, but more likely two or even three if needed, persons who might just react crazy enough to make that initial launch. We believe the US and Russia are smart enough to have so much redundancy built in that it could not happen. But what about one African, or Middle Eastern, or Asian country that has that one missile, and one totally crazy (not politically correct but screw pc) leader or top echelon person who believes war would get rid of the US and Russia and give his country the opportunity to take over? of make him the dictator of the planet?

There are crazies out there. You do not know, and we cannot even guess, how many times someone in the right place at the right time could push the button.

:blink:

smee2

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And somewhere in the US and/or Russia and/or any other country with even one nuclear bomb, there is a place where maybe like a triple set of keys and a double set of buttons will trigger THE switch that launches ONE missile. And it doesn't matter which country that missile comes from or goes to. The opposite number in this "mutually assured destruction equation you mention will access another part of the equation ... retaliation.

From there ... you know what it will be.

Now, will there be that initial missile launch? Can you find, in the ranks of those people with such sensitive access, a minimum of one, but more likely two or even three if needed, persons who might just react crazy enough to make that initial launch. We believe the US and Russia are smart enough to have so much redundancy built in that it could not happen. But what about one African, or Middle Eastern, or Asian country that has that one missile, and one totally crazy (not politically correct but screw pc) leader or top echelon person who believes war would get rid of the US and Russia and give his country the opportunity to take over? of make him the dictator of the planet?

There are crazies out there. You do not know, and we cannot even guess, how many times someone in the right place at the right time could push the button.

:blink:

smee2

Yes indeed! Very worrying. By attacking the dollar Iran is only making it more likely that some moron will decide it's possible to 'win.' The whole world has changed. It is now possible for a couple of people to end it! But by the same token, maybe we can use our clever tools to help make peace instead. You'd think we would have learned something in the past several thousand years. Like what is and is not worth fighting for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do hear you. It is not my intention to reopen the whole who did what to whom since 1948 on the West bank. Israel is so far outnumbered that of course her only hope for survival is to make peace with her neighbors. But those same neighbors know that they don't have to make peace at all. They can just bury her. And they have repeatedly stated that that is their intention. Let's understand Israel in contet. Of course Israel is behaving in paranoid ways. She really has enemies. But all of Israel's significant, internal social problems, that must be solved, do not change the fact that Iran is a deadly threat to THIS country. And Israel is our strongest ally in THAT region. And, hey Maggie, I support THIS country!

Yes, lets understand Israel behaviour in context. The Palestinians did not harm one Jew hair during the Holocaust. They had absolutely NOTHING to do with it. In what context should they have to suffer persecution from Israel now, and greatly suffer they do, as Hope pointed out.

And as for your assertion that Iran is a deadly threat to America. How? Iran has not played the role of aggressor in the last 3000 years!

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, lets understand Israel behaviour in context. The Palestinians did not harm one Jew hair during the Holocaust. They had absolutely NOTHING to do with it. In what context should they have to suffer persecution from Israel now, and greatly suffer they do, as Hope pointed out.

And as for your assertion that Iran is a deadly threat to America. How? Iran has not played the role of aggressor in the last 3000 years!

I agree that the situation in Israel is untenable. It is not my intention to get into who's right after an endless chain of wrongs. We may never agree on that. But I know we agree that it was Europe's legacy of hate that led to the Jewish holocaust, not any legacy of hatred on the part of the Muslims. Their hatred came after Europe decided it was too ashamed to look at the surviving Jews and dumped them in the mideast. The current situation is not because of what happened last century. It is happening now.

But how can you not understand the hostile intent of an Iranian attack on the dollar? I have to repeat that an imperfect ally that shares our beliefs and goals is worth having as an ally in a part of the world that hates our culture. We're not perfect either. But I'm certain that we're preferable to Iran at this time.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree that the situation in Israel is untenable. It is not my intention to get into who's right after an endless chain of wrongs. We may never agree on that. But I know we agree that it was Europe's legacy of hate that led to the Jewish holocaust, not any legacy of hatred on the part of the Muslims. Their hatred came after Europe decided it was too ashamed to look at the surviving Jews and dumped them in the mideast. The current situation is not because of what happened last century. It is happening now.

But how can you not understand the hostile intent of an Iranian attack on the dollar? I have to repeat that an imperfect ally that shares our beliefs and goals is worth having as an ally in a part of the world that hates our culture. We're not perfect either. But I'm certain that we're preferable to Iran at this time.

Annie, it is not Iran that has attacked the dollar, it is the West that has attacked Iran's ability to sell it oil through the new sanctions passed. What is Iran supposed to do if it cannot sell its oil?

In fact, the entire Iran has nuclear weapon scenario is a mask our leaders wear so they can rape and pillage and slaughter with impunity. I urge you to read the full article, but here is a small excerpt that proves that even America's Defence Secretary, Leon Panetta admits Iran simply does not have nuclear weapons.

"Panetta says: “Are they [iran] trying to develop a nuclear weapon? No.”

That Panetta finally admits what many people around the world know to be true, including American intelligence agencies in at least two US National Intelligence Estimates in 2007 and 2010 – that is, that Iran is not attempting to develop a nuclear weapon, should be a front-page headline. Especially when taken together with the US General Dempsey’s disclosure that war plans are afoot. From its own admission, therefore, the US government is pushing the world into possibly a World War III scenario on the basis of a totally spurious claim that even its own top brass do not believe."

Read more at: http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=28560

One more thing Annie. Iranians do not hate Jews they have existed peacefully for thousands of years. Here is Rabbi Dovid Weiss's take on Iran's leader.

http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2006/02/rabbi-dovid-weiss-on-iran-hamas-and.html

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, lets understand Israel behaviour in context. The Palestinians did not harm one Jew hair during the Holocaust. They had absolutely NOTHING to do with it. In what context should they have to suffer persecution from Israel now, and greatly suffer they do, as Hope pointed out.

And as for your assertion that Iran is a deadly threat to America. How? Iran has not played the role of aggressor in the last 3000 years!

Aggressor? Implicit or complicit? They supply weapons and intell to the enemies of our allies and friends. This has resulted in the deaths of thousands of Iraqi's and Americans.

Is there an armed insurgency within Iran that is supplied by Iraq or the US????

GH

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Annie, it is not Iran that has attacked the dollar, it is the West that has attacked Iran's ability to sell it oil through the new sanctions passed. What is Iran supposed to do if it cannot sell its oil?

In fact, the entire Iran has nuclear weapon scenario is a mask our leaders wear so they can rape and pillage and slaughter with impunity. I urge you to read the full article, but here is a small excerpt that proves that even America's Defence Secretary, Leon Panetta admits Iran simply does not have nuclear weapons.

"Panetta says: “Are they [iran] trying to develop a nuclear weapon? No.”

That Panetta finally admits what many people around the world know to be true, including American intelligence agencies in at least two US National Intelligence Estimates in 2007 and 2010 – that is, that Iran is not attempting to develop a nuclear weapon, should be a front-page headline. Especially when taken together with the US General Dempsey’s disclosure that war plans are afoot. From its own admission, therefore, the US government is pushing the world into possibly a World War III scenario on the basis of a totally spurious claim that even its own top brass do not believe."

Read more at: http://globalresearc...xt=va&aid=28560

One more thing Annie. Iranians do not hate Jews they have existed peacefully for thousands of years. Here is Rabbi Dovid Weiss's take on Iran's leader.

http://wakeupfromyou...-hamas-and.html

I gave you a plus on that one Tyron! And I do know that Muslims and Jews are siblings with one Father. It is not right that there be anything but love between us. But we obviously need to work on that!

As regards the political rat's nest,I'm certainly willing to consider your links and information. But you seem to have overemphasized the importance of my post on weapons to my reasons for my opinions. An individual or a faction or a sect or a country might be our enemies without having nuclear weapons. In fact I think 'real' countries might be more loathe to use such MAD weapons than an extremist fringe. I will follow your lead and learn more. For now, please consider that an attack on the dollar will potentially lead to more human deprivation and suffering on a global scale than the Iraqi wars to date. After all we feed a lot of the world. What will happen as OUR infrastructure collapses. Do you think our agricultural system will be making shipping wheat to Africa a priority when our own people are hungry in the streets? This tiger has a long tail!

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aggressor? Implicit or complicit? They supply weapons and intell to the enemies of our allies and friends. This has resulted in the deaths of thousands of Iraqi's and Americans.

Is there an armed insurgency within Iran that is supplied by Iraq or the US????

GH

Ah yes, the supply of weapons and intel that results in the death of thousands...

One strange but instructive example comes to mind, a studied, if disingenuous, effort to blame all the troubles in southern Iraq on the "malignant" influence of Iran.

On April 25, 2008, Joint Chiefs Chairman, Adm. Mike Mullen, told reporters that Gen. Petraeus in Baghdad would give a briefing "in the next couple of weeks" providing detailed evidence of "just how far Iran is reaching into Iraq to foment instability." Petraeus’s staff alerted U.S. media to a major news event in which captured Iranian arms in Karbala would be displayed and then destroyed.

Oops. Small problem. When American munitions experts went to Karbala to inspect the alleged cache of Iranian weapons, they found nothing that could be credibly linked to Iran.

At that point, adding insult to injury, the Iraqis announced that Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki had formed his own Cabinet committee to investigate the U.S. claims and attempt to "find tangible information and not information based on speculation." Ouch!

Read more http://original.antiwar.com/mcgovern/2011/10/13/petraeuss-cia-fuels-iran-murder-plot/

There is a good lead in that link on the real story in case of the 'implausible Iranian attack on the Saudi Arabia Ambassador' too.

Anyway HD, an agressor is someone who initiates hostile action against someone else, usually in a grab for power, land, or resources. It is not American, British or Israel scientists who are dying like flies. It is not an Iranian drone that America found in its air space. It is not Iran but Iraq that invaded Iran. Iraq has not coveted one centimeter of its neighbours' lands. It does not even need anybody's else oil. When Wikileaks revealed the alleged Saudi Arabian missives urging America to attack Iran, Iran did not threaten war. It simply put it down to mischief. That earned my respect.

Can we truly call ourselves civilised nations if we are always calling for war, a thing that can indiscriminately extinguishes millions of innocent lives?

I gave you a plus on that one Tyron! And I do know that Muslims and Jews are siblings with one Father. It is not right that there be anything but love between us. But we obviously need to work on that!

As regards the political rat's nest,I'm certainly willing to consider your links and information. But you seem to have overemphasized the importance of my post on weapons to my reasons for my opinions. An individual or a faction or a sect or a country might be our enemies without having nuclear weapons. In fact I think 'real' countries might be more loathe to use such MAD weapons than an extremist fringe. I will follow your lead and learn more. For now, please consider that an attack on the dollar will potentially lead to more human deprivation and suffering on a global scale than the Iraqi wars to date. After all we feed a lot of the world. What will happen as OUR infrastructure collapses. Do you think our agricultural system will be making shipping wheat to Africa a priority when our own people are hungry in the streets? This tiger has a long tail!

Thank you Annie. All divisions of religion, race, colour, culture are external differences that we are brainwashed into believing. Underneath our skin we are all the same - human.

Unfortunately, Annie the dollar cannot be saved and it has nothing to do with the Iranian, Russians or Chinese. The dollar is being imploded as part of an agenda to usher in an asset backed currency and eventually a one world digital currency. It will be a sad day when that happens but it is on the cards as surely as I sit here at my computer.

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

World War III has already started and it's all about economics. This is just a distraction from what really is occurring. You see above it mentions US Treasury, Timmy, oil, etc. If you haven't seen the movie "Thrive", I urge you to see it immediately at http://thrivemovement.com. Yes, WWIII is happening NOW and the revolution has started. The only difference is that we must have a PEACEFUL revolution. There are action steps that we can all take right now that will change the America and the world. Watch the movie... get involved. Take the steps and feel empowered. I'm sure this movie has been posted before, but it needs to be talked about more and more and more. This is not a time to put you head in the sand... this is a time to take action steps. Thrive ON!

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Israel reminds me of that special drinking buddy. Your both sitting in a bar, he gets in a verbal argument but you end up in the fight.

Yes Ziggie :-) We are dinar veterans and we will have a bond forever! I would go to the "Wall" for you! cool.gif

Hey you gotta do what you gotta do, huh? rolleyes.gif

NOPE! Sorry Ziggie sad.gif not if it is going to mean World War III...

Just Kidding unsure.gif well not really... nothing personal Ziggie smile.gif

I gave you a plus on that one Tyron! And I do know that Muslims and Jews are siblings with one Father. It is not right that there be anything but love between us. But we obviously need to work on that!

As regards the political rat's nest,I'm certainly willing to consider your links and information. But you seem to have overemphasized the importance of my post on weapons to my reasons for my opinions. An individual or a faction or a sect or a country might be our enemies without having nuclear weapons. In fact I think 'real' countries might be more loathe to use such MAD weapons than an extremist fringe. I will follow your lead and learn more. For now, please consider that an attack on the dollar will potentially lead to more human deprivation and suffering on a global scale than the Iraqi wars to date. After all we feed a lot of the world. What will happen as OUR infrastructure collapses. Do you think our agricultural system will be making shipping wheat to Africa a priority when our own people are hungry in the streets? This tiger has a long tail!

Annie I appologize for what may have seemed like an attack on you, Sorry. I am just as passionate about this as you are. Sometimes my words fail me... I hope you will understand.

What I hear you talking about with so much poise and articulation is that Iran is waging..."an attack on the dollar (that) will potentially lead to more human deprivation and suffering on a global scale".

Ok you said it... yet I wonder about this... WHO has attacked our dollar more than "Our Own Banks and Politicians" angry.gif You don't think we have contributed to "human deprivation" not only here but also on a global scale? Shall we wage war against ourselves? unsure.gif

Oh Yeah and I almost forgot China is going to drop us like a "hot potatoe" that will not be good for our dollar either. Shall we go wage war on them? unsure.gif

Annie you are talking about a dollar compared to human lives. There must be a better way to solving this condition other than what you and others are proposing. Peace Dear smile.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have a plan. A good plan. One that incorporates your entire family. Buy seed to plant, grow trees, be ready to can foods. Be ready for no electricity. No public water. Radios that run on batteries. Communication abilities that run on batteries. Live like we have forever, plan as though we are in war tomorrow. This war could be civil and world wide. Be ready be vigilant because your adversary will come in a time when you think not. If it does happen it will happen at a moments notice. If it does not then be Thankful. All I will say as everything is being watched and recorded. Be ready!

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes Ziggie :-) We are dinar veterans and we will have a bond forever! I would go to the "Wall" for you! cool.gif

Hey you gotta do what you gotta do, huh? rolleyes.gif

NOPE! Sorry Ziggie sad.gif not if it is going to mean World War III...

Just Kidding unsure.gif well not really... nothing personal Ziggie smile.gif

Annie I appologize for what may have seemed like an attack on you, Sorry. I am just as passionate about this as you are. Sometimes my words fail me... I hope you will understand.

What I hear you talking about with so much poise and articulation is that Iran is waging..."an attack on the dollar (that) will potentially lead to more human deprivation and suffering on a global scale".

Ok you said it... yet I wonder about this... WHO has attacked our dollar more than "Our Own Banks and Politicians" angry.gif You don't think we have contributed to "human deprivation" not only here but also on a global scale? Shall we wage war against ourselves? unsure.gif

Oh Yeah and I almost forgot China is going to drop us like a "hot potatoe" that will not be good for our dollar either. Shall we go wage war on them? unsure.gif

Annie you are talking about a dollar compared to human lives. There must be a better way to solving this condition other than what you and others are proposing. Peace Dear smile.gif

Thanks Maggie!

But I'm saying countless human lives, on an international scale, DEPEND on the dollar! The reason why China dropping us is so crucial is because they buy so much of our debt. So many DOLLARS. But they use lots of those dollars to buy OIL! It is Iran's policy that will make the dollar undesirable to China etc... Don't underestimate the global interconnections.

As regards our own banking system, I agree. Nixon should have never taken us off the gold standard. But I have enough faith in this country to believe that any process involving a return to asset backed dollars will result in our again having one of the strongest currencies on earth. Oil is valuable to the extent it's irreplaceable. MMMMMM We'll see about that. America will wind up helping the whole world (again) and remain strong!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did anyone bother to follow the link to see where this "news" came from? No, and you just believed it. It is a blog. Please go there so you can make a donation and click thru on Google ads.

This is an opinion piece and should be moved to the appropriate area.

And by the way, would any of the believers like to expound on the condition of Russia currently, and how ready they are for WWIII. Anybody?

Geez, I miss Dalite.

Totally agree, just one persons opinion...why is it people get so riled up with a blog????

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Totally agree, just one persons opinion...why is it people get so riled up with a blog????

Not sure Hamels. But if this rumor or opinion is true, it's of major, global importance. If it's not true, it's obviously intended as a demoralizing and strong arming effort to make us afraid. Either way, this opinion piece raises some interesting questions about our addiction to Arab petro products. They can use oil to bankrupt us completely (we haven't seen the worst of that!), but maybe articles like this will wake more Americans up to our life and death need to find alternatives to oil!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why it is a bad idea to protect Israel from an anti-humanist government in Iran? Our media does not show what Israel does to the non-Jew in the West Bank and in Israel. We are fed that it is a democracy. I have visited there many times and spent time with the Jews who are trying to raise the issues of discrimination against the Bedouins who have been shoved onto a toxic dump in the Negev south of Jerusalem. There are Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem that are being bulldozed. 25% of children, women, adult men in the West Bank are imprisoned in their lifetime and can be taken off the street for nothing. In the West Bank roads are built that only Jews can travel on with white license plates....apartheid. Palestinian Christians and Muslims are cut off from their water, land, homes, jobs, schools, hospitals, families by the Wall and these roads. Arabs in Israel are given water once per week to store in tanks on top of their houses while Jews in settlements have water for pools, bushes and gardens 24/7 in the West Bank. Over 20,000 buildings including hospitals and schools were bombed in Gaza and now there is a blockade by Israel on medical and building supplies stopping all boats from bringing them in to Gaza. Americans need to look deeper. This is NOT a DEMOCRACY that we say we are supporting. Do not be tricked into supporting another war on behalf of Israel. It is not in Israel's best interest to support her behaviors that get her hated in her neighborhood. The best protection for the Jews there is to encourage that government to act with justice toward its citizens and the Palestinians. That means cutting off our funding of this government until it acts in just ways. We provide billions per year to Israel that supports the military acting in these ways and building the Wall. You must think what that does to the neighbors around Israel as they see us talk about bringing democracy to the region. It is bringing an Occupation to people who used to live in the full area of the land in 1948

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah yes, the supply of weapons and intel that results in the death of thousands...

One strange but instructive example comes to mind, a studied, if disingenuous, effort to blame all the troubles in southern Iraq on the "malignant" influence of Iran.

On April 25, 2008, Joint Chiefs Chairman, Adm. Mike Mullen, told reporters that Gen. Petraeus in Baghdad would give a briefing "in the next couple of weeks" providing detailed evidence of "just how far Iran is reaching into Iraq to foment instability." Petraeus’s staff alerted U.S. media to a major news event in which captured Iranian arms in Karbala would be displayed and then destroyed.

Oops. Small problem. When American munitions experts went to Karbala to inspect the alleged cache of Iranian weapons, they found nothing that could be credibly linked to Iran.

At that point, adding insult to injury, the Iraqis announced that Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki had formed his own Cabinet committee to investigate the U.S. claims and attempt to "find tangible information and not information based on speculation." Ouch!

Read more http://original.antiwar.com/mcgovern/2011/10/13/petraeuss-cia-fuels-iran-murder-plot/

There is a good lead in that link on the real story in case of the 'implausible Iranian attack on the Saudi Arabia Ambassador' too.

Anyway HD, an agressor is someone who initiates hostile action against someone else, usually in a grab for power, land, or resources. It is not American, British or Israel scientists who are dying like flies. It is not an Iranian drone that America found in its air space. It is not Iran but Iraq that invaded Iran. Iraq has not coveted one centimeter of its neighbours' lands. It does not even need anybody's else oil. When Wikileaks revealed the alleged Saudi Arabian missives urging America to attack Iran, Iran did not threaten war. It simply put it down to mischief. That earned my respect.

Can we truly call ourselves civilised nations if we are always calling for war, a thing that can indiscriminately extinguishes millions of innocent lives?.

Hmmm, where to start? I think I’ll start at the end by answering your last question in order to qualify my position before addressing your other points: “Can we truly call ourselves civilised nations if we are always calling for war, a thing that can indiscriminately extinguishes millions of innocent lives?” You and I probably disagree on the definition of war. However, the general understood definition of war is the use of force necessary for one nation to remain unfettered or destroyed by another. Is there a time when it is appropriate for civilized nations to ‘always’ be calling for war? Yes. If the un-civilized nations have gathered together and are ‘always’ calling for the annihilation of the civilized then the appropriate response of the civilized is to ensure that does not occur. Who then are the innocents you speak of? Those persons of uncivilized nations, who refuse to counter, correct and rebuff those that call for annihilation? They are cowards who are complicit in the threat and would be complicit if the threat of annihilation were to occur. That is the hard truth of the matter.

However, todays civilized nations are not ‘always’ calling for war just as un-civilized nations are not ‘always’ calling for annihilation of the civilized. I mean, after all, everybody now understands the importance and comfort of toilet paper. So somewhere between the extreme call for total war and annihilation with all its emotion and flag waving/burning and a clean, rash free tush, lie the rub and conflict of the ideology of the civilized and the un-civilized. Metal against metal, flare-ups, hot spots, name calling, disinformation, loss of life etc. etc. are all part of the shoving back and forth between the civilized and the un-civilized. But, let’s not be naïve; there are moral values underlying the actions of both sides and, I am not talking about religion. I am talking about the foundation of humanity. There is good and there is bad. There is wrong and there is right. All persons have a right to live and all persons have a right to their lawful possessions. All persons also have the right to resist attempts to deprive them of those rights… using whatever force is necessary.

Now, more to the point of Iran’s supplying weapons and intel to the insurgency in Iraq. I read the article you referenced. It is an obvious anti-US-war article posted on an anti-war web page authored by a CIA analyst of 27 years. It is hard to fathom why someone would express such a view point counter to the nation he made an oath with. I suppose he enjoyed the US taxpayer provided salary and perhaps now even a pension. Regardless how he pays for his printer ink, he should know his stuff right? And being a former analyst he should also know how to write objectively, right? It’s a little hard to see those attributes when he writes: On April 25, 2008, Joint Chiefs Chairman, Adm. Mike Mullen, told reporters that Gen. Petraeus in Baghdad would give a briefing "in the next couple of weeks" providing detailed evidence of "just how far Iran is reaching into Iraq to foment instability." Petraeus’s staff alerted U.S. media to a major news event in which captured Iranian arms in Karbala would be displayed and then destroyed. OK, there is nothing here that states the briefing did not occur nor that detailed evidence was not provided. Did the major news event occur and were the weapons destroyed?

Oops. Small problem. When American munitions experts went to Karbala to inspect the alleged cache of Iranian weapons, they found nothing that could be credibly linked to Iran. Oops, small problem alright; no reference to the ‘experts’ report and no reference to what level of credibility they were using.

At that point, adding insult to injury, the Iraqis announced that Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki had formed his own Cabinet committee to investigate the U.S. claims and attempt to "find tangible information and not information based on speculation." Ouch! Ok, what became of that finding?

Oops and Ouch!?? This reads more like something Rachael Maddow would exclaim.

You have presented this article regarding an event that occurred on April 25, 2008. Initially, I thought you had written the body of the post until I realized you had overlooked quotation marks and reference to the author. No biggy, just sayin’…

Anyway, I’m going back in time too; http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2007/09/mil-070928-rferl01.htm

U.S. Building Military Base Near Iraqi-Iranian Border

By Ron Synovitz

“September 28, 2007 (RFE/RL) -- The U.S. military is launching an intensified effort to stop what it says is Iranian support for insurgents in Iraq.

U.S. forces are building a forward-operations base in Iraq just a few kilometers from the border with Iran. The $5-million project is aimed at improving border security and is part of a broader U.S. effort to stop alleged Iranian support for Iraqi insurgents.

The plan is similar to the U.S. strategy elsewhere in Iraq. It calls for U.S.-led coalition troops to help build up Iraq's border infrastructure as well to train Iraqi forces that eventually would take over border-security operations.

But the task is a difficult one. The 1,500 kilometer border between Iraq and Iran is crisscrossed with ancient smuggling routes. And supplying Shi'ite militias in Iraq is now thought to be a major source of income for some tribes along the border.

Iranian Influence

The top U.S. military commander In Iraq, General David Petraeus, said on September 12 that he has solid evidence -- including statements from alleged Iranian agents that have been captured -- proving that Iran has been involved in lethal attacks in Iraq. Petraeus warned the U.S. Congress that the United States already is fighting what he called a "proxy war" with Iran.

He accused Iran of helping Iraqi insurgents by providing them with weapons -- including armor piercing technology for roadside bombs known as "explosively formed projectiles" (EFPs).

"I'm not blaming Iran for all that is going wrong in Iraq," Petraeus said in his congressional testimony. "What I stated is, in fact, what we have learned about Iranian activity. And it certainly has contributed to a sophistication of attacks that would by no means be possible without Iranian support when it comes to the explosively formed projectiles -- a signature item provided by the Iranians."

U.S. Brigadier General Kevin Bergner has accused the Quds Force of Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps of providing special combat training to Iraqi insurgents in Iran.

"[The] Quds Force, along with Hizballah instructors, train approximately 20 to 60 Iraqis at a time, sending them back to Iraq organized into these special groups," Bergner said recently. "They were being taught how to use EFPs, mortars, rockets, as well as intelligence, sniper, and kidnapping operations."

U.S. military officials say they are particularly concerned about a 150-kilometer stretch of border to the southeast of Baghdad in the mostly Shi'ite governorate of Wasit.

There, near the town of Zurbatiya, the U.S. is constructing the centerpiece of its new border-control strategy -- a forward-operations base called "Combat Outpost Shocker." The facility is being built just seven kilometers from the Iranian border -- which would make it the closest U.S. military facility to Iran. It is scheduled to become operational in November.”

There is more to the article if you are interested but it deals with Georgian troops patrolling the area.

COP Shocker did become operational up and until June 29, 2011. It was the main but small hub where US Force’s frustrated Iran’s smuggling attempts and the closest US Military installation to Iran.

On July 1st, 2011, Iraq was to take over the border patrol duties and inhabit COP Shocker. On June 29th, 2011, less than an hour after the change of command ceremonies took place and, after the local Iraqi VIP’s left the compound, four IRAM rockets were launched by the Islamic resistance in Iraq; Hezbollah brigades (Kataib Hezbollah). Kataib Hezbollah claimed in their press/video release of the attack that KARRAR rockets were used. KARRAR rockets are manufactured by Iran and are a UAV capable of 1000 km from ground to target. It is unlikely KARRAR’s were actually used because the video footage of the attack reveals the rockets were launched just outside the perimeter of COP Shocker. However, IRAM rockets (Improvised Rocket Assisted Munitions) are powered by Iranian produced rocket charges. “What is clear is that the devices are using 107mm rocket charges. The US military said these charges are "of Iranian-manufacture." The lot numbers and dates of manufacture show the rocket casings have been manufactured within the past three years.” http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2008/06/mahdi_army_uses_flyi.php#ixzz1jCm87j99

So… on June 29th, 2011, one day before US Troops were to leave COP Shocker, IRAM rockets powered by Iranian rocket charges rained in killing the Garrison Commander and two others, seriously injuring others and destroying COP Shocker. http://www.kataibhizbollah.org/ar/wmv/A10.wmv and, http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=175_1309636208

Now, what was it you were saying about innocent Iran and aggressors…?

GH

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmmm, where to start? I think I’ll start at the end by answering your last question in order to qualify my position before addressing your other points: “Can we truly call ourselves civilised nations if we are always calling for war, a thing that can indiscriminately extinguishes millions of innocent lives?” You and I probably disagree on the definition of war. However, the general understood definition of war is the use of force necessary for one nation to remain unfettered or destroyed by another. Is there a time when it is appropriate for civilized nations to ‘always’ be calling for war? Yes. If the un-civilized nations have gathered together and are ‘always’ calling for the annihilation of the civilized then the appropriate response of the civilized is to ensure that does not occur. Who then are the innocents you speak of? Those persons of uncivilized nations, who refuse to counter, correct and rebuff those that call for annihilation? They are cowards who are complicit in the threat and would be complicit if the threat of annihilation were to occur. That is the hard truth of the matter.

However, todays civilized nations are not ‘always’ calling for war just as un-civilized nations are not ‘always’ calling for annihilation of the civilized. I mean, after all, everybody now understands the importance and comfort of toilet paper. So somewhere between the extreme call for total war and annihilation with all its emotion and flag waving/burning and a clean, rash free tush, lie the rub and conflict of the ideology of the civilized and the un-civilized. Metal against metal, flare-ups, hot spots, name calling, disinformation, loss of life etc. etc. are all part of the shoving back and forth between the civilized and the un-civilized. But, let’s not be naïve; there are moral values underlying the actions of both sides and, I am not talking about religion. I am talking about the foundation of humanity. There is good and there is bad. There is wrong and there is right. All persons have a right to live and all persons have a right to their lawful possessions. All persons also have the right to resist attempts to deprive them of those rights… using whatever force is necessary.

Now, more to the point of Iran’s supplying weapons and intel to the insurgency in Iraq. I read the article you referenced. It is an obvious anti-US-war article posted on an anti-war web page authored by a CIA analyst of 27 years. It is hard to fathom why someone would express such a view point counter to the nation he made an oath with. I suppose he enjoyed the US taxpayer provided salary and perhaps now even a pension. Regardless how he pays for his printer ink, he should know his stuff right? And being a former analyst he should also know how to write objectively, right? It’s a little hard to see those attributes when he writes: On April 25, 2008, Joint Chiefs Chairman, Adm. Mike Mullen, told reporters that Gen. Petraeus in Baghdad would give a briefing "in the next couple of weeks" providing detailed evidence of "just how far Iran is reaching into Iraq to foment instability." Petraeus’s staff alerted U.S. media to a major news event in which captured Iranian arms in Karbala would be displayed and then destroyed. OK, there is nothing here that states the briefing did not occur nor that detailed evidence was not provided. Did the major news event occur and were the weapons destroyed?

Oops. Small problem. When American munitions experts went to Karbala to inspect the alleged cache of Iranian weapons, they found nothing that could be credibly linked to Iran. Oops, small problem alright; no reference to the ‘experts’ report and no reference to what level of credibility they were using.

At that point, adding insult to injury, the Iraqis announced that Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki had formed his own Cabinet committee to investigate the U.S. claims and attempt to "find tangible information and not information based on speculation." Ouch! Ok, what became of that finding?

Oops and Ouch!?? This reads more like something Rachael Maddow would exclaim.

You have presented this article regarding an event that occurred on April 25, 2008. Initially, I thought you had written the body of the post until I realized you had overlooked quotation marks and reference to the author. No biggy, just sayin’…

Anyway, I’m going back in time too; http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2007/09/mil-070928-rferl01.htm

U.S. Building Military Base Near Iraqi-Iranian Border

By Ron Synovitz

“September 28, 2007 (RFE/RL) -- The U.S. military is launching an intensified effort to stop what it says is Iranian support for insurgents in Iraq.

U.S. forces are building a forward-operations base in Iraq just a few kilometers from the border with Iran. The $5-million project is aimed at improving border security and is part of a broader U.S. effort to stop alleged Iranian support for Iraqi insurgents.

The plan is similar to the U.S. strategy elsewhere in Iraq. It calls for U.S.-led coalition troops to help build up Iraq's border infrastructure as well to train Iraqi forces that eventually would take over border-security operations.

But the task is a difficult one. The 1,500 kilometer border between Iraq and Iran is crisscrossed with ancient smuggling routes. And supplying Shi'ite militias in Iraq is now thought to be a major source of income for some tribes along the border.

Iranian Influence

The top U.S. military commander In Iraq, General David Petraeus, said on September 12 that he has solid evidence -- including statements from alleged Iranian agents that have been captured -- proving that Iran has been involved in lethal attacks in Iraq. Petraeus warned the U.S. Congress that the United States already is fighting what he called a "proxy war" with Iran.

He accused Iran of helping Iraqi insurgents by providing them with weapons -- including armor piercing technology for roadside bombs known as "explosively formed projectiles" (EFPs).

"I'm not blaming Iran for all that is going wrong in Iraq," Petraeus said in his congressional testimony. "What I stated is, in fact, what we have learned about Iranian activity. And it certainly has contributed to a sophistication of attacks that would by no means be possible without Iranian support when it comes to the explosively formed projectiles -- a signature item provided by the Iranians."

U.S. Brigadier General Kevin Bergner has accused the Quds Force of Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps of providing special combat training to Iraqi insurgents in Iran.

"[The] Quds Force, along with Hizballah instructors, train approximately 20 to 60 Iraqis at a time, sending them back to Iraq organized into these special groups," Bergner said recently. "They were being taught how to use EFPs, mortars, rockets, as well as intelligence, sniper, and kidnapping operations."

U.S. military officials say they are particularly concerned about a 150-kilometer stretch of border to the southeast of Baghdad in the mostly Shi'ite governorate of Wasit.

There, near the town of Zurbatiya, the U.S. is constructing the centerpiece of its new border-control strategy -- a forward-operations base called "Combat Outpost Shocker." The facility is being built just seven kilometers from the Iranian border -- which would make it the closest U.S. military facility to Iran. It is scheduled to become operational in November.”

There is more to the article if you are interested but it deals with Georgian troops patrolling the area.

COP Shocker did become operational up and until June 29, 2011. It was the main but small hub where US Force’s frustrated Iran’s smuggling attempts and the closest US Military installation to Iran.

On July 1st, 2011, Iraq was to take over the border patrol duties and inhabit COP Shocker. On June 29th, 2011, less than an hour after the change of command ceremonies took place and, after the local Iraqi VIP’s left the compound, four IRAM rockets were launched by the Islamic resistance in Iraq; Hezbollah brigades (Kataib Hezbollah). Kataib Hezbollah claimed in their press/video release of the attack that KARRAR rockets were used. KARRAR rockets are manufactured by Iran and are a UAV capable of 1000 km from ground to target. It is unlikely KARRAR’s were actually used because the video footage of the attack reveals the rockets were launched just outside the perimeter of COP Shocker. However, IRAM rockets (Improvised Rocket Assisted Munitions) are powered by Iranian produced rocket charges. “What is clear is that the devices are using 107mm rocket charges. The US military said these charges are "of Iranian-manufacture." The lot numbers and dates of manufacture show the rocket casings have been manufactured within the past three years.” http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2008/06/mahdi_army_uses_flyi.php#ixzz1jCm87j99

So… on June 29th, 2011, one day before US Troops were to leave COP Shocker, IRAM rockets powered by Iranian rocket charges rained in killing the Garrison Commander and two others, seriously injuring others and destroying COP Shocker. http://www.kataibhizbollah.org/ar/wmv/A10.wmv and, http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=175_1309636208

Now, what was it you were saying about innocent Iran and aggressors…?

GH

Well, well - here we have the crux of the matter. You think that Iran is an uncivilised nation! Why on earth would you think that? Is it REALLY possible that you think using toilet paper distinguishes the civilised from the uncivilised? I have been to tiny villages in Asia where I found the people more civilised than those I found in the streets of Britain!

What is true civilisation? Men wearing expensive dark suits sitting in a room and arbitrarily deciding to bomb out of existence millions because their currency (which they themselves have printed trillions of and so has already lost more than 90% of its value since its inception) is threatened - first Iraq then Libya and next target Iran? Soldiers sitting in a room full of TV screens and shooting people from the sky with drones? You'll hit some that are totally innocent, but don't worry, we don't call that murder, its just collateral damage. Is civilisation the Patriot's Act or the NDAA or Sopa or perhaps it is mercury in the teeth, fluoride in drinking water or GMOs in the diet or perhaps it is stuffing your face with fast food while sitting in trance in front of a TV screen, or having prisons full to bursting with all manner of undesirables or have 40% of your population dependant on psychotic drugs simply get through their day.

Or is civilisation people who are kind and help to each other, who protect their young to the best of their ability, care for the environment and laugh easily and often. I don't know what they used in lieu of toilet paper, perhaps leaves or water, but I never heard one complain of bum rashes. And this is what I saw and experienced. They did not lock their doors at night - no robbers, they had no prisons, they could not have conceived of the idea of a paedophile. Their children ran free and unworried. They treated the earth as it it was their mother - with the greatest respect.

Before you jump on my case, I am not advocating we throw away our toilet paper and join them in jungles. I am just saying that lets not be so quick to call others who are different from us uncivilised.

A note about the innocents whom I speak of. Lets put it this way. If tomorrow Russia decides they want to bomb America because they consider Obama to be a mad dictator. Does that make you an innocent that they would be killing or a 'complicit coward'! Exactly. You would be an innocent as so many millions who happen to be born in Iran are today.

Sorry I did not put quotation marks. I thought it would be obvious when I finished the excerpt with the words. Read more at + link.

So you have questions about that article. Good. Go find the answers without jumping to your own biased conclusions. That is what these articles are supposed to do. Free us from getting all our news from a single source - Associated Press/Reuters.

Finally, Iraq and Iran have a great deal of bad blood. Saddam did after all invade Iran unprovoked. A million men perished needlessly in that war. So it is hardly surprising to hear Iran might be supporting insurgents in Iraq. Israeli spies have been found in Britain and America and once they even used British passports in one of MOSSAD's assassination coups, and we are all supposed to alies! Are we going to go to war with Israel for that? No. That's what diplomatic relations are for. And that is the method that should be employed by ALL sovereign countries in their relations to ALL other sovereign countries.

You have not given me a SINGLE valid reason that would warrant a military attack on Iran which could very well lead to the start of WW3.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, well - here we have the crux of the matter. You think that Iran is an uncivilised nation! Why on earth would you think that? Is it REALLY possible that you think using toilet paper distinguishes the civilised from the uncivilised? I have been to tiny villages in Asia where I found the people more civilised than those I found in the streets of Britain!

What is true civilisation? Men wearing expensive dark suits sitting in a room and arbitrarily deciding to bomb out of existence millions because their currency (which they themselves have printed trillions of and so has already lost more than 90% of its value since its inception) is threatened - first Iraq then Libya and next target Iran? Soldiers sitting in a room full of TV screens and shooting people from the sky with drones? You'll hit some that are totally innocent, but don't worry, we don't call that murder, its just collateral damage. Is civilisation the Patriot's Act or the NDAA or Sopa or perhaps it is mercury in the teeth, fluoride in drinking water or GMOs in the diet or perhaps it is stuffing your face with fast food while sitting in trance in front of a TV screen, or having prisons full to bursting with all manner of undesirables or have 40% of your population dependant on psychotic drugs simply get through their day.

Or is civilisation people who are kind and help to each other, who protect their young to the best of their ability, care for the environment and laugh easily and often. I don't know what they used in lieu of toilet paper, perhaps leaves or water, but I never heard one complain of bum rashes. And this is what I saw and experienced. They did not lock their doors at night - no robbers, they had no prisons, they could not have conceived of the idea of a paedophile. Their children ran free and unworried. They treated the earth as it it was their mother - with the greatest respect.

Before you jump on my case, I am not advocating we throw away our toilet paper and join them in jungles. I am just saying that lets not be so quick to call others who are different from us uncivilised.

A note about the innocents whom I speak of. Lets put it this way. If tomorrow Russia decides they want to bomb America because they consider Obama to be a mad dictator. Does that make you an innocent that they would be killing or a 'complicit coward'! Exactly. You would be an innocent as so many millions who happen to be born in Iran are today.

Sorry I did not put quotation marks. I thought it would be obvious when I finished the excerpt with the words. Read more at + link.

So you have questions about that article. Good. Go find the answers without jumping to your own biased conclusions. That is what these articles are supposed to do. Free us from getting all our news from a single source - Associated Press/Reuters.

Finally, Iraq and Iran have a great deal of bad blood. Saddam did after all invade Iran unprovoked. A million men perished needlessly in that war. So it is hardly surprising to hear Iran might be supporting insurgents in Iraq. Israeli spies have been found in Britain and America and once they even used British passports in one of MOSSAD's assassination coups, and we are all supposed to alies! Are we going to go to war with Israel for that? No. That's what diplomatic relations are for. And that is the method that should be employed by ALL sovereign countries in their relations to ALL other sovereign countries.

You have not given me a SINGLE valid reason that would warrant a military attack on Iran which could very well lead to the start of WW3.

I’ll start this retort as I did with the last one; addressing your last comment and question. “You have not given me a SINGLE valid reason that would warrant a military attack on Iran which could very well lead to the start of WW3.” Absolutely true, I never asserted that in the first place. If you recall, my first response was to your question to another poster, “And as for your assertion that Iran is a deadly threat to America. How? Iran has not played the role of aggressor in the last 3000 years!” I provided a simple illustration of Iran’s proxy war in Iraq and asked you to define aggressor as you meant it. I was truly baffled by your statement that Iran has not played the role of aggressor in the last 3000 years. That is why I asked what you meant as ‘aggressor’ because anybody who has a basic understanding of Middle East history full well knows how aggressive the ancient Iranian people were throughout the Assyrian, Mede and Persian empires conquering people and land from what is now known as India to Egypt to Cyprus to Asia Minor to the Caspian Sea. Yes, that includes the destruction of the Babylonian army by the Persians at Opis on the Tigris River in 539 BC leading to all of Babylon falling under the rule of Cyrus. Assyrians, Medes and Persians; all peaceful Iranian people.

If by chance, you are referring to the Islamic Republic of Iran from 1979 to present day, the ADL has this to say: “Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism, providing financial support and training for organizations such as Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad and others, and is believed to be behind many Shiite insurgents in Iraq. Iran is responsible for the bombings of the Israeli Embassy (1992) and the Jewish community center (1994) in Buenos Aires, Argentina, which killed over 200 people and wounded hundreds more. Its leaders have repeatedly called for Israel's demise and have propagated base anti-Semitism, including the denial of the Holocaust.” ADL

On November 8, 2011, the IAEA released their most comprehensive and damning report to date on Iran's nuclear program. The report is based on intelligence received from more than 10 different countries; interviews with foreign scientists who helped Iran develop their program, and the IAEA's own investigations and analyses. In unambiguous terms, the report states that Iran is engaged in "activities relevant to the development of a nuclear device." These activities include:

Research on uranium cores and detonators for nuclear weapons

Acquiring nuclear weapons development information and documentation from a clandestine supply network

Developing an indigenous nuclear weapons design and testing of the components

Computer modeling of nuclear explosions and logistics for nuclear testing

Engineering studies to adapt missiles for nuclear warheads

This latest report unequivocally confirms Iran's intentions to develop the capacity to build nuclear weapons and notes that Iran currently has enough low-enriched uranium to produce weapons-grade uranium for at least four nuclear bombs. IAEA

In the President of Iran’s own words:

“Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury,” President of Iran

In a public address on IRINN TV on June 2, 2008, Ahmadinejad stated:

"The Zionist regime has lost its raison d'être. Today, the Palestinians identify with your name Khomeini, your memory, and in your path. They are walking in your illuminated path and the Zionist regime has reached a total dead end. Thanks to God, your wish will soon be realized, and this germ of corruption will be wiped off."

Are you sure you want to believe Iran is not an aggressor in the face of three thousand years of history that illustrates otherwise?

Now onto the issue of civilization, you wrote:

Well, well - here we have the crux of the matter. You think that Iran is an uncivilised nation! Why on earth would you think that? Is it REALLY possible that you think using toilet paper distinguishes the civilised from the uncivilised? I have been to tiny villages in Asia where I found the people more civilised than those I found in the streets of Britain!

I never said or thought Iran is an uncivilized nation. You, Tyron, are putting a meaning into my text that does not exist. Go back and read what I actually wrote regarding civilized and un-civilized and the basic human right to exist. Like you, I have not only been to villages in Asia I have actually lived in the jungle for a considerable period of time. Asia is not the only remote place I have been my friend. As Johnny Cash said, “I have been everywhere, man.” And, being an American I don’t find it hard to believe you found less than civilized people in Britain… But back to the more important issue of TP. You, once again, missed the point; and that is, regardless of whether or not we are civilized or un-civilized we share a common daily duty and it is much more comfortable with toilet paper. When we share that common understanding we are less likely to destroy that comfort.

What is true civilisation? Men wearing expensive dark suits sitting in a room and arbitrarily deciding to bomb out of existence millions because their currency (which they themselves have printed trillions of and so has already lost more than 90% of its value since its inception) is threatened - first Iraq then Libya and next target Iran? Soldiers sitting in a room full of TV screens and shooting people from the sky with drones? You'll hit some that are totally innocent, but don't worry, we don't call that murder, its just collateral damage. Is civilisation the Patriot's Act or the NDAA or Sopa or perhaps it is mercury in the teeth, fluoride in drinking water or GMOs in the diet or perhaps it is stuffing your face with fast food while sitting in trance in front of a TV screen, or having prisons full to bursting with all manner of undesirables or have 40% of your population dependant on psychotic drugs simply get through their day.

You certainly are passionate Tyron. Civilized people do not desire the destruction of civilized people and, it follows, they would make no effort to destroy civilized people. If they do desire the destruction and made an effort to destroy civilized people they would, therefore by definition, be uncivilized. Pretty simple really, it has nothing to do with unlocked doors, lack of pedophiles or loving mother earth with the greatest respect. It all comes down to this: Tyron has the right to live and I have no right to take that away from him. If I try, Tyron has every right to use whatever force is necessary to remain alive, including killing me. Get it? Now, just expand that understanding to include nations of individual persons and you should get the point.

Now to address your analogy:

A note about the innocents whom I speak of. Lets put it this way. If tomorrow Russia decides they want to bomb America because they consider Obama to be a mad dictator. Does that make you an innocent that they would be killing or a 'complicit coward'! Exactly. You would be an innocent as so many millions who happen to be born in Iran are today.

The first consideration is, does Russia know or believe Obama to be a mad dictator. If Obama is, in fact a mad dictator, who is he a mad dictator over; the US? If so, what business is it of Russia? If Obama decides the US isn’t enough for him and tries to invade and conquer Canada then there are two immediate groups of people who must stop him; Canadians and good ‘ol American patriots. But what if we fail and Obama has a plan to drive forward across the Bearing Sea, burning and pillaging straightaway headed for Moscow and the only way to stop him and his nuclear madness is to bomb America? That is exactly what Russia should do and, that is why it is imperative that free men, women and children understand their moral obligation to resist tyranny and rise up against a mad dictator at all costs before someone else decides to take everyone out. Those that rise up would be patriots and those that didn’t would be ‘complicit cowards’ worthy of their demise. Again, that is the hard truth of the matter; it’s a big boy world with big boy rules. It’s best to get your game face on.

With regard to diplomacy, you are absolutely correct; it is the best route. The US and other nations have shown a great deal of understanding, tolerance and patience toward Iran. Nobody is pushing Iran for a fight but we are all collectively holding them accountable for their words and actions.

I hope they listen.

GH

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good I am very pleased to see that it was simple misunderstanding. You do NOT consider the Iranians uncivilised and you do NOT condone any pre-emptive military attack on them.

Unfortunately, these silly sanctions that the West is trying to force the whole world to impose on Iran will only benefit the Oil Companies and the Bankers that own them. Iran will not suffer since the reduction will be compensated for by the price hike. The greatest losers will be you and I and those who will starve due to the inevitable increase in food prices. But we are of no importance to the men in dark suits, and there it lies George...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good I am very pleased to see that it was simple misunderstanding. You do NOT consider the Iranians uncivilised and you do NOT condone any pre-emptive military attack on them.

Unfortunately, these silly sanctions that the West is trying to force the whole world to impose on Iran will only benefit the Oil Companies and the Bankers that own them. Iran will not suffer since the reduction will be compensated for by the price hike. The greatest losers will be you and I and those who will starve due to the inevitable increase in food prices. But we are of no importance to the men in dark suits, and there it lies George...

Well, sorta... I'll make it very clear; I do not consider Iranians uncivilized but I do condone a pre-emptive attack on any nation (or person) who states: #1. Tyron (or any other person or nation) does not have a right to live; #2. Has the means, ability and expresses intention to destroy Tyron (or any other person or nation; and #3. Makes any effort whatsoever to initiate the death of Tyron (or any other person or nation).

And that is why Tyron, that even if you and I disagree on a World View we can live in peace with each other as long as neither one of us attempts to deny the other the right to live. It also means that even though we disagree on a World View that if a third party makes it known they are going to deny Tryon the right to live and I become aware of those intentions; I have a moral obligation to assist you so that you may continue to live. Believe me Tyron, if I heard a hooligan down at the local pub make noise about how he was going to break into your flat and smash your head with a bat and steal your telley, I would do everything to dissuade him and to warn you. And if that wasn't enough, I would intervene with a preemptive strike to the nose.

As for being inconsequential to the men in dark suits; they are terrified of free men, especially men with the 2nd Amendment behind them.

And so Tyron, enjoy your day, I've got your back...

GH

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, sorta... I'll make it very clear; I do not consider Iranians uncivilized but I do condone a pre-emptive attack on any nation (or person) who states: #1. Tyron (or any other person or nation) does not have a right to live; #2. Has the means, ability and expresses intention to destroy Tyron (or any other person or nation; and #3. Makes any effort whatsoever to initiate the death of Tyron (or any other person or nation).

And that is why Tyron, that even if you and I disagree on a World View we can live in peace with each other as long as neither one of us attempts to deny the other the right to live. It also means that even though we disagree on a World View that if a third party makes it known they are going to deny Tryon the right to live and I become aware of those intentions; I have a moral obligation to assist you so that you may continue to live. Believe me Tyron, if I heard a hooligan down at the local pub make noise about how he was going to break into your flat and smash your head with a bat and steal your telley, I would do everything to dissuade him and to warn you. And if that wasn't enough, I would intervene with a preemptive strike to the nose.

As for being inconsequential to the men in dark suits; they are terrified of free men, especially men with the 2nd Amendment behind them.

And so Tyron, enjoy your day, I've got your back...

GH

Hi George. This is the problem I have with this whole thing. Iran has not threatened to wipe out Israel at all. Iran, understandably deplores what is happening to the Palestinians, their brothers, and therefore condemns the actions of the Zionist state of Israel and wants to see the end of its existence, but it does NOT condemn the Jews or plan for their annihilation. Here you will find the actual words spoken by Iranian leader. http://antiwar.com/orig/norouzi.php?articleid=11025

It might surprise to learn that Torah-True Jews also desire the end of the Zionist state. This is how they feel:

The Zionists have no right of any sovereignty over even one inch of the Holy Land. They do not represent the Jewish people in any way whatsoever. They have no right to speak in the name of the Jewish people. Therefore, their words, declarations and actions are not in any way representative of the Jewish people. This is because the Zionists' seizing of power over the Holy Land is antithetical to Jewish law, and also because the Zionists do not behave like Jews at all rather, they desecrate the sanctity of the land.

We once again clarify that it is our desire to live in peace with our Arab and Palestinian neighbors, as we did before the Zionist revolution, and as Jews all over the world till today live, accepting the yoke of rulership of their host nation, with complete loyalty. Our sole desire is to serve our G-d and to fulfill His commandments with a perfect heart and to delight in the radiance of the sanctity of the Land.

Read more at: http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/notjews.cfm

What do you propose to do with these people, George?

Anyway, this is an interesting opinion from a source you might respect.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/04/world/middleeast/04mossad.html

And also bear this quote in mind

Israelis Defense minister, Ehud Barak, responded to PBS's Charlie Rose's question "If you were Iran wouldn't you want a nuclear weapon?" with these words:

"Probably, probably. I don't delude myself that they are doing it just because of Israel. They have their history of 4,000 years. They look around and they see the Indians are nuclear. The Chinese are nuclear, Pakistan is nuclear as well as North Korea, not to mention the Russians."

Oh! when you see that hooligan down the pub, tell him to come around mine for a cup of tea, and that he's welcome to my telly. Never use the damn thing, anyway. Take care, George - I actually like you - you're kinda sweet. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.