Ron Paul “wouldn’t have risked American lives to end the Holocaust"

[Markinsa]

I hate to be the master of the obvious....but....The USA DID NOT enter the war to save the holocaust victims.

In fact we did NOT want to enter the war....and tried playing arm chair quarterback UNTIL Pearl Harbor was attacked..

just saying....

This really wasn't supposed to be a history lesson. The point of the article was, that even if Ron Paul KNEW about the Holocaust, he wouldn't have sent our troops to war. So, if Ron Paul were President during WWII, we'd be speaking German and Japanese instead of English.

-

[therichman]

This really wasn't supposed to be a history lesson. The point of the article was, that even if Ron Paul KNEW about the Holocaust, he wouldn't have sent our troops to war. So, if Ron Paul were President during WWII, we'd be speaking German and Japanese instead of English.

-

That is exactly the point.....Those who do NOT know history are DOOMED TO REPEAT IT.

[kevnutz]

SNIP

"Not for nothin' but", we're all fortunate that no one here has to rely on YOUR judgement.

What makes you say that champ?

[AoK]

"Whenthe tyrant has disposed of foreign enemies by conquest or treaty, and there is nothing to fear from them, then he is always stirring up some war or other, in order that the people may require a leader." The Republic, 566-E, Plato

"“If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. “

James Madison

4th POTUS 1751-1836

"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."-

Thomas Jefferson 3rd POTUS April 13, 1743 – July 4, 1826

“This will be the behavior of the king who will reign over you: He will take...He will take ...And he will take ...He will take ... And he will take... He will take... And you will be his servants. And you will cry out in that day because of your king whom you have chosen for yourselves, and the LORD will not hear you in that day.” 1Sam.8:11-8 NKJ

[TPSprayduster]

I offer my opinion when people like you offer yours.

We are on a site that words are typed and read by others. May i add by choice, so Question: how can you force a opinion on others? I have been thru everything that misinformed people have been thru. Denial, remorse, hate, fear, rejection of the truth, all of it. However when you type words that i have typed myself or have said myself that is infact a state of denial hate fear and rejection of truth. I have proven all to myself and that is all i have to do. When you first started to comment on my posts, may i add TPSprayduster, "He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone",you were the one who started all of this hatred of my posts. However many here enjoy and are dually informed and have open there eyes of what is reality in the US. So what you can do is keep doing what you feel like doing, that is why we have freedom in the US, so you can do what you want and i can do what i want. Seems like you want to take that away from me and all the people who are benefiting from my posts. Is that what it is?

Again using words of hate and fear; key words to scare people into the belief of the opinions you post. Not everyone buys the opinions you find and post here. I don't recall calling people names that do not agree or disagree with your post. I posted the names i have been called and folks who did not fall in line. Yes some folks do enjoy the opinions and fairy tales you post. Yes i can post as i want as long as i am staying within the rules of the forum. Not taking nothing away from you scrum and your other handles. I never change nor do i quote the scriptures to add validity to my opinion. My thought on those who use religions to justify killing yourself to forward the message of some who tend to keep people in the dark, uneducated and to able to send them on a one way mission to further there cause. Now this is an opinion and nor did i call you a terrorist either. Just trying to prove a point on how some of these messages can be twisted. Keep on posting sir/ma'am when you post a dozzie of a story you might as well prepare to be questioned Scrum. Don't try and put on the victim tag and saying Spray duster is turning folks against your post into a hate thread. People can think for themselves, they don't need me telling them what to think. You do a pretty good job of it already

Edited December 30, 2011 by TPSprayduster

[divemaster5734]

Ron Paul “wouldn’t have risked American lives to end the Holocaust”

Posted on December 28, 2011 by admin

From reading your posts and responses I understand you to be a deeply spiritual Christian.

I can relate to that, because I am also.

You have come to know religion has nothing to do with knowing God.

That was why it took me some time to wrap my mind around individual rights and sovereignty.

While I also have misgivings about Ron Paul's foreign policy, I also realized I have been lied to by every presidential administration active in my life.

I, like most other Americans, have been taught it is incumbent upon us to be the worlds umpire, police force, country builder, referee, and savior.

The truth is, our government has had a role in either financing or instigating almost every conflict since before WW1.

The bank of England financed Hitler and helped facilitate WWII, and the village idiot's grandpa, Prescott Bush had millions of dollars of Nazi money seized by the feds in 1942.

So, the truth is, had we not helped start the war, we wouldn't have had to jump into it, but that was probably the plan the whole time.

While I agree it would have been unconscionable to ignore the holocaust, I don't think Ron Paul would have done that.

First, he would never just declare war on his own. he believes in the powers granted congress, and the senate, and would let them declare any wars, and would then support it with all his powers.

Second, he has been the maverick for 40 years.

Almost everything he warned about that would happen has happened.

Every other president has been elected by controlling their party, then appealing to just enough voters from the "other side" to win.

Every single one has been polarized from the start, in effect, not caring about All Americans.

Ron Paul's message is to each and every individual human.

We were not created just as a sovereign nation, but a sovereign nation of sovereigns.

There's a HUGE difference.

Just like we are not a democracy, but a democratic republic.

How can we justify expecting to be left alone to prosper if we don't leave other nations alone to prosper?

When RP says free trade, he means just that, not the crony capitalism like favored nation tariff specials, HR visa allocations, tax breaks and subsidies for manufacturing in foreign countries, or any of the other common practices that our corrupted politicians have allowed their good friend lobbyists employers.

After much research I have come to believe Ron Paul would be more receptive to public opinion than any other president we have had since JFK.

If you read his bio you will see he is Christian, but holds his spirituality as a personal relationship between himself and God, and will not use that as a tool for popularity.

I can relate to that, I am a business owner, and a follower of Christ, but I would never advertise in a secular directory.

While my logo does have a small cross, you have to know where to look to see it, it is a discrete declaration, and not an advertising tool.

I am not expecting you or anyone else to suddenly convert by anything I am saying, I would hope it might be enough to cause people to take a moment to reflect on the meaning of our individuality.

To me, each of us is an individual, with rights granted by God at birth, and then understanding it is only with the respect, and willing participation of other individuals that makes this country the greatest on this earth.

For the federal government to continue to oppress and coerce the population into submission is to abuse the rights of every single American.

Honestly, I don't see a prefect candidate, but I do believe Ron Paul will help get us on track to become what we were meant to be.

Even if we started now, it would take at least another generation, the department of uneducation has to be abolished first.

[kevnutz]

Well said divemaster5734.

[GPCarter]

If we minded our own business you Aussie's would be speaking Japanese.

-

Not true.

There is a ton of proof, proof coming from OUR country (declassified info and documents from the US / Washington), that shows Pearl Harbor was NOT an unprovoked attacked. This proof has been out for decades yet many of us Americans still refuse to acknowledge it. Spend 5 minutes searching about the proof on how FDR and people from his administration purposely provoked the attack. There is all sorts of information, documentation and disclosures. As a veteran, it sickens me that our own country provoked the attack (which no one can dispute) and then lied making it seem as though we were innocent. I am patriotic and love this country BUT God loves the truth and the truth about what happened should be told and NOT lied about, ignored or covered up. It was because of things like this that I decided not to re enlist when I was in the Army.

[divemaster5734]

Not true.

There is a ton of proof, proof coming from OUR country (declassified info and documents from the US / Washington), that shows Pearl Harbor was NOT an unprovoked attacked. This proof has been out for decades yet many of us Americans still refuse to acknowledge it. Spend 5 minutes searching about the proof on how FDR and people from his administration purposely provoked the attack. There is all sorts of information, documentation and disclosures. As a veteran, it sickens me that our own country provoked the attack (which no one can dispute) and then lied making it seem as though we were innocent. I am patriotic and love this country BUT God loves the truth and the truth about what happened should be told and NOT lied about, ignored or covered up. It was because of things like this that I decided not to re enlist when I was in the Army.

You nailed it.

Matthew 7:7 is what started my journey.

That and the thirst I have for the truth.

From one God fearing vet to another, thank you for your service, and welcome to the "awakened".

All anybody has to do is ask God for the truth, and He will lead them to it.

[TPSprayduster]

Not true.

There is a ton of proof, proof coming from OUR country (declassified info and documents from the US / Washington), that shows Pearl Harbor was NOT an unprovoked attacked. This proof has been out for decades yet many of us Americans still refuse to acknowledge it. Spend 5 minutes searching about the proof on how FDR and people from his administration purposely provoked the attack. There is all sorts of information, documentation and disclosures. As a veteran, it sickens me that our own country provoked the attack (which no one can dispute) and then lied making it seem as though we were innocent. I am patriotic and love this country BUT God loves the truth and the truth about what happened should be told and NOT lied about, ignored or covered up. It was because of things like this that I decided not to re enlist when I was in the Army.

Mr Carter can you please provide us with that link so we are not only looking pro opinion facts. So we can further understand your opinion. Not sure how we could have provoke Japan when they were running wild in indochina invading and using the raw materials to fuel there war machine.

You nailed it.

Matthew 7:7 is what started my journey.

That and the thirst I have for the truth.

From one God fearing vet to another, thank you for your service, and welcome to the "awakened".

All anybody has to do is ask God for the truth, and He will lead them to it.

I am a Vet as well, and i do fear God so that must make me different because i don't agree with the awakened?

[CrappieShark]

I believe that Ron Paul may be the best choice that is being presented. However we have been suckered by a group of people in the shadows and only people they have vetted can even run for election. What if Ron Paul is Lying. What if he is like all the rest of these politicians who have taken the presidential oath. They just do not do what they promise when they get the office of president.. I will vote for him as Obama is intolerable. To allow Obama to stay in office is to make us a Muslim State. Muslims hate Americans and they hate Israel. They are a warmongering people. We already have so many freedoms on the line that you can feel the anger and the fear rising in America. In a recent caucas they found that America feared their own Government much more than the did an Terrorist attack. I just do not think Ron Paul is being honest about his agenda. We need to get the shadow folks out of our government and get more choices from good men who are just common folk. Get rid of all these career politicians and you get rid of the evil influence. About the time they sink their hooks into the politicians they will no longer be able to be in office. To allow justices to have lifelong jobs is crazy rediculous. We need to go back to terms on how long these folks can be in office if it is a government position. Any government position. All federal positions. When someone is allowed to make a career out of politics they have way too much power and can be influenced by wicked people. Face it folks we all have weaknesses and these men are no different. But by putting terms on how long they can be in office will stop a lot of that. Ron Paul is the best choice when it comes to our liberties if he is being honest. He is not the best choice when it comes to our military. He is way too overbalanced in that area. We need our military to be stronger now than ever. We are facing a reemerging Russia who have teamed up with China. China has the largest army that has ever been known in the history of man. When you are facing the ill will of all the countries in the world because of past performance it is not the time to strip away the power of the Military. To stop being the agressor yes to stop policing the world yes but to withdraw from our bases and our Allies NO emphatically NO. We would for certain be facing a lot of agression if we do. So many reasons. We have wealth, Our poorest is better off than most third world middle class. They look at us with envy and hatred and fear. We do not want to downsize our military. Ron Paul needs to either clarify his foreign policy or he needs to rethink it.

[stargazer55]

What makes you say that champ?

You passed judgment on the Christianity of a lot folks in that list that laid everything on the line for their fellow countrymen. I'm curious as to what your qualifications are to pass such judgment on these people.

Other than Christ himself, there's never been a person to live a perfect life. Thus, you can point one's sins and scream hypocrisy until you're blue in the face. All you're doing is pointing out that we all have flaws. All we can do is pray for guidance and endeavor to improve ourselves toward the high calling of God. When that final judgment day comes, there will be a lot of surprises as to those who are accepted and those who are not.

[JUNKANOO]

...bless his soul...anywayz...GO RV!!!

[divemaster5734]

I am a Vet as well, and i do fear God so that must make me different because i don't agree with the awakened?

It is not for me to judge you, that isn't what this is even about.

I have asked you to Google the Golf of Tonkin, and then let me know if you still think our government has always been honest and forthcoming to Americans.

To date, you have not bothered to respond to that request.

How then am I supposed to address your question?

If you refuse to even acknowledge established and proved actions taken by our government that intentionally murdered American citizens in order to deceive and control, then we are not able to discuss any other possible deceptions.

If all you are intent on doing is promoting your own opinion without bothering to even confirm anybody else's that is your right, but don't expect to be taken seriously if you only want a one way conversation.

When I run into someone's conflicting opinion, I take the time to research their claim, and if proven correct, I will acknowledge that, but when you are supplied with either links, or topics to research, you refuse, it that because you are afraid to face the truth?

I did not even mention you, or anybody else in my response to Carter, yet you were happy to initiate a conflict with me while still not bothering to prove anything you say, only condemning anything you don't agree with.

How is that a conversation?

Please prove to me the government didn't lie about anything, show me how the fast and furious scandal is a hoax, prove politicians haven't corrupted themselves, how the Iran contra "scandal" was just media hoax, because i would love to live in your la la land of daises and rainbows.

If you are going to jump into one of my conversations with another person, please be prepared to face the truth, I am really getting tired of you firing off at me and talking out the side of your neck,

[TPSprayduster]

It is not for me to judge you, that isn't what this is even about.

I have asked you to Google the Golf of Tonkin, and then let me know if you still think our government has always been honest and forthcoming to Americans.

To date, you have not bothered to respond to that request.

How then am I supposed to address your question?

If you refuse to even acknowledge established and proved actions taken by our government that intentionally murdered American citizens in order to deceive and control, then we are not able to discuss any other possible deceptions.

If all you are intent on doing is promoting your own opinion without bothering to even confirm anybody else's that is your right, but don't expect to be taken seriously if you only want a one way conversation.

When I run into someone's conflicting opinion, I take the time to research their claim, and if proven correct, I will acknowledge that, but when you are supplied with either links, or topics to research, you refuse, it that because you are afraid to face the truth?

I did not even mention you, or anybody else in my response to Carter, yet you were happy to initiate a conflict with me while still not bothering to prove anything you say, only condemning anything you don't agree with.

How is that a conversation?

Please prove to me the government didn't lie about anything, show me how the fast and furious scandal is a hoax, prove politicians haven't corrupted themselves, how the Iran contra "scandal" was just media hoax, because i would love to live in your la la land of daises and rainbows.

If you are going to jump into one of my conversations with another person, please be prepared to face the truth, I am really getting tired of you firing off at me and talking out the side of your neck,

Well sir, it is my opinoin and apparently i don't buy your gulf of tonkin incident before my time, i am focusing on the present. Iran Contra was sham, Ollie North was the fall guy for that mess. Do you think a Lt Col would have that much authority? Hell no, he didn't. I will jump into your conversation if you are posting your opinions and if don't agree with you well tough. Don't post in the off topics. I face the truth daily sir and if you are tired of me firing off at you then sorry tough talk does not bother me. This forum is nothing but opinions and if you don't like my opinion as the mods say DON'T READ THEM. You can research any issues they have in off topics you have the pro media and con media. You will choose whatever promotes your opinion. So please sir, i am not here to google anything you ask me to google. I could google gulf of tonkin and find a website that said the viet cong fired first and that is what started the conflict. The internet is full of conspiracy theorist so why go looking for the article that will support my opinion!!!

Edited December 30, 2011 by TPSprayduster

[divemaster5734]

Well sir, it is my opinoin and apparently i don't buy your gulf of tonkin incident before my time, i am focusing on the present. Iran Contra was sham, Ollie North was the fall guy for that mess. Do you think a Lt Col would have that much authority? Hell no, he didn't. I will jump into your conversation if you are posting your opinions and if don't agree with you well tough. Don't post in the off topics. I face the truth daily sir and if you are tired of me firing off at you then sorry tough talk does not bother me. This forum is nothing but opinions and if you don't like my opinion as the mods say DON'T READ THEM. You can research any issues they have in off topics you have the pro media and con media. You will choose whatever promotes your opinion. So please sir, i am not here to google anything you ask me to google. I could google gulf of tonkin and find a website that said the viet cong fired first and that is what started the conflict. The internet is full of conspiracy theorist so why go looking for the article that will support my opinion!!!

And you are how old?

You talk like your 12.

If ignorance is bliss you must be one happy fella.

Obama claimed to be a Christian, Bush did too, but they are pretty obviously liars about that, could the same be said for you?

You are making yourself into a joke.

You refuse to look up a historically proven fact, which had you bothered to you would have read about how the government even had to admit they lied, and just brush it off as "opinion".

You throw around words like "Christian" and "truth", but it is obvious you are oblivious to either.

I would love to stay and chat, but i have a company to run.

Edited December 30, 2011 by divemaster5734

[Scrumdiddles]

And you are how old?

You talk like your 12.

If ignorance is bliss you must be one happy fella.

Obama claimed to be a Christian, Bush did too, but they are pretty obviously liars about that, could the same be said for you?

You are making yourself into a joke.

You refuse to look up a historically proven fact, which had you bothered to you would have read about how the government even had to admit they lied, and just brush it off as "opinion".

You throw around words like "Christian" and "truth", but it is obvious you are oblivious to either.

I would love to stay and chat, but i have a company to run.

It is really useless to talk to someone with that type of personality, he has told me that he will not let it go. Divemaster. Better to ignore.

[TPSprayduster]

And you are how old?

You talk like your 12.

If ignorance is bliss you must be one happy fella.

Obama claimed to be a Christian, Bush did too, but they are pretty obviously liars about that, could the same be said for you?

You are making yourself into a joke.

You refuse to look up a historically proven fact, which had you bothered to you would have read about how the government even had to admit they lied, and just brush it off as "opinion".

You throw around words like "Christian" and "truth", but it is obvious you are oblivious to either.

I would love to stay and chat, but i have a company to run.

Sir, i don't really care what you think about me. I am making myself i joke because i do not follow the stuff that is posted in off topic? Why should i look up a historical fact when you have already told me that it was a set-up. So why Google it!!! Iran Contra happen the wrong people went down because of it. Well run your company sir, and have a nice day. I am sure on your lunch break you will again belittle me.

[smee2]

I'm close to fifty years old and I resent you talking to me like I'm some punk kid just out of high school. I'm educated and I'm a Christian. I can read. Obviously, you would rather have a President in the White House that would overlook the mass murder of a particular people because he felt it wasn't any of our business. IMO, I feel the United States stands for something other than being selfish. There are going to be bullies in this world and if no one stands up to them, they're going to feel free to do whatever they please. I don't like bullies.

-

BRAVO

WELL SAID

I'm with you brother, if the powerful in this world are not going to stand up for the little guy, no one else will. I too don't like bullies! I am soooo glad you said that! Way to go! WOW!

smee2

[TPSprayduster]

It is really useless to talk to someone with that type of personality, he has told me that he will not let it go. Divemaster. Better to ignore.

I guess it is better to ignore me because i won't fall in line Scrum. If you keep posting articles and not expect a response that does not agree with you post then i am sorry sir. I don't name call like you do and i don't belittle people as well. If you had some respect for folks who disagree with you then you would have some many negative comments from people.

[AoK]

“Let me issue and control a nation’s money, and I care not who writes its laws.” - Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild (1773-1855),London financier, one of the founders of the international Rothschild bankingdynasty, 1838.

"Money and politics is the root of all politial evil. It is corruption at its worst. And until we step up and kick that out of the park, it's going to be the same system all over again." Jimmy Williams

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country." Thomas Jefferson 3rd POTUS 1743 –1826

‎"If the American people ever allow private banks to control theissue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent theirfathers conquered." (Thomas Jefferson, 1743-1826)

“The fact is that there is a serious danger of this country becoming a Pluto-democracy; that is, a sham republic with the real government in the hands of a small clique of enormously wealthy men, who speak through their money, and whose influence, even today, radiates to every corner of the United States.” - William McAdoo (1863-1941), US Senator (D-CA), Secretary of Treasury

“When the President signs this act [FederalReserve Act of 1913], the invisible government by the money power — proven toexist by the Monetary Trust Investigation — will be legalized. The new law will create inflation whenever the trusts want inflation. From now on, depressions will be scientifically created.” - Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr. (1859-1924),Congressman (R-MN)

“It is no coincidence that the century of total war coincided with the century of central banking.” Rep. Ron Paul, R-TX

[Scrumdiddles]

“Let me issue and control a nation’s money, and I care not who writes its laws.” - Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild (1773-1855),London financier, one of the founders of the international Rothschild bankingdynasty, 1838.

Thank you for that post AoK. Right on.

[AoK]

"The fractional reserve system of monetary expansion is inherently inflationary. The act of expanding the money supply without there being a proportional expansion of goods and services in the economy will always debase a currency." (fr. video)

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=VBRZYrblZ24

"The best way to destroy the capitalist system is to debauch the currency." Vladimir Lenin 1870 –1924

"All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise, not from defects in their Constitution or Confederation, not from want of honor or virtue, so much as from the downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and circulation." John Adams, 1735-1826

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832

"...the borrower is servant to the lender." Pr.22:7

[brandon2222]

I'm close to fifty years old and I resent you talking to me like I'm some punk kid just out of high school. I'm educated and I'm a Christian. I can read. Obviously, you would rather have a President in the White House that would overlook the mass murder of a particular people because he felt it wasn't any of our business. IMO, I feel the United States stands for something other than being selfish. There are going to be bullies in this world and if no one stands up to them, they're going to feel free to do whatever they please. I don't like bullies.

-

So your going to take money away from your children and your children's futures to fund endless wars? I'm sorry, but I've known people who have died in Iraq and Vietnam. We need our troops home to protect our borders period. Leave Foreign aid and being the world police to someone else, I want my kids to be free!

[kliklok00]

Following this thread is making me a bit dizzy...we seem to be getting off point!

The original post was about NOT VOTING for RP due to his foreign policy beliefs. More specific, due to what he said he wouldn't do if he were president 70 years ago. If you are a believer in a sovereign God....the same God who proclaims that the Jews are His chosen people---His favorite people---then I suppose God allowed Hitler to come into power and kill the 6 million Jews. Why? No clue...but could it have been stopped? I think not---and I think that because I truly believe God is sovereign. Do I enjoy the fact all those people died? No way...it is gut wrenching to think about all of that death. But again, I am off point! This post is about potential leadership of America in 2012...

Regardless of who, what, where, when, if you are an American citizen you have to realize America is in trouble. I have found that when faced with a problem, the first thing one ought to do is search for a solution. Bitching about problems without offering solutions is pointless.

So...let's try this! Read this book: Republic, Lost: How Money Corrupts Congress--and a Plan to Stop It by Lawrence Lessig.

It reveals a huge problem within our government, AND, it offers a solution.

Like Ron Paul, the author's solution to the problem may not be the best...but it is a start. Every other person running for election doesn't want to fix anything in America...they want the position and the power and the money at the expense of the citizens who elect them. Give the book a read, implement the solution into your life, and get behind a leader who truly wants to help America (like Ron Paul).

Go RV!!!!! :D