BOBBY ROMERO Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 THIS MAIL RECEIVED AGAI,I THOUGHT ID POST IT FOR PPL WHO HAVE NOT SEEN IT.. All, From the moment I've been in this investment even until now, the debate of LOP versus RV has been raging. That very argument is what drove me and thousands of others AWAY from Investors Iraq (IIF), as it appeared it was absolutely overrun by those who felt it was their mission to squash the hopes and dreams of other investors. I am sharing this with the permission of those who have helped bring me this concept to light, from several legitimate economists and very sharp minds, their perspective to help each of you understand this dilemma. I don't know about you, but I've been told time and again by those who are absolutely in a position to know that this will NOT be a LOP, but will be a straight-up RV, yet I found myself not being able to refute the arguments of those who brought only "part of the truth" forward, using the "numbers" to their advantage through logical focus on that which was clearly understood. This post of mine is dedicated to explaining how an RV will happen. CONCEPT EXPLAINED: First off, I'll use the exchange of a 10,000 IQD note as my example. To help explain the economics of this cash-in example, I will use a 1:1 cash-in ratio between the USD and IQD, that is given a two-tier payout, and a 2% bank spread. What You Will Receive: If you were to cash in your 10,000 IQD note with a bank that charges you a 2% spread, you would personally receive a net take-home of $9,800 credited to your bank account. What Your Bank Will Receive: Your Bank will receive a $10,000 credit to its Federal Reserve Account. They will also be able to add the $200 profit to their "capital account". If you don't understand the "Fractional Banking" concept that runs our country, you may want to, as that is what this is based on, and is what is behind this entire concept and plan. To learn more about this concept, I suggest you click HERE, and go to a video post I brought to the forum previously, and posted in my "Tidbits" section. Ultimately, the bank wins because they are able to gain $2,000 in lending power under the 10% "Fractional Banking" model. What the US Treasury Will Receive: First off, the US Treasury will receive $3,500 in estimated taxes in the quarter after the exchange, because you are now in the "rich" category and get to enjoy the 35% tax bracket. This lowers the "net cost" of the IQD exchange to the US financial system to $6,500 USD (i.e. $10,000 out - $3,500 in). Furthermore, the US Treasury's rate is higher than the banking rate (we will use in this example 1.25), thereby further reducing their "net cost" from $6,500 to $4,000. Oil Now Enters the Picture: At some point, a Fed-appointed agent orders $12,500 worth of oil from Iraq . Payment will consist of a $12,500 transfer from the Fed's foreign currency reserve IQD account to the IRAQ Oil payment account at the CBI in a form otherwise known as PetroDollars/PetroDinar. Even though the world spot price of oil is defined in terms of USD, the actual transaction may take place in any internationally recognized currency agreed to by the parties. For example, Iran only accepts Yen from Japan for their oil orders, because they don't want USD in their foreign currency reserves. How the CBI "RECAPTURES" the Money: The $12,500 order is filled with 250 barrels of oil based on the spot price on the date of the sale (for this example we used a $50 USD spot price). What does it cost Iraq to produce the oil to fill this order? Well they have negotiated productions agreements for approximately $1.50 USD/barrel. From that price $.50 USD goes to the national Iraqi oil company who is the partner in the field the oil came from. Out of the remaining $1.00 the other oil field partners have to pay the Iraq government a profit tax of $.35 USD (35%). The net cost to Iraq to produce a barrel of oil used in this scenario is $.65 USD. (i.e. $1.50 - .50 - .35) What does all that mean? It cost Iraq $162.50 to bring back a 10,000 IQD note! Can they afford that? I think so! So, instead of paying out $12,500 for a 10,000 IQD note, they only pay $162.50! That doesn't add to the money supply much at all does it! They receive their IQD back and place it in the CBI, or destroy it. The transaction is completed with the Federal Reserve exchanging foreign reserve credits which are equal to $12,500 USD (which had a net acquisition cost of $4,000 USD for the US) for 250 barrels of oil (which has a TOTAL COST to produce of $162.50 USD for Iraq. More completely explained, and simply put, it cost Iraq $162.50 USD from their foreign currency reserve accounts to redeem the value of 10,000 IQD, which goes into their operating accounts. At the same time the US got $12,500 worth of oil for a net cost of $4,000. That's how it was originally planned for Iraq to RV at 1 IQD = 1 USD, with the variable being the political element (i.e. UN Sanctions, GOI actions, IMF actions, World Bank actions etc.) Other Factors that Strengthen Iraq 's Position and Ability to RV: a.. DFI Funds Returned & Other Assets: $280+ Billion USD, plus other frozen assets (estimated at $100 billion) will be returned back to Iraq and added to their foreign currency reserve, bringing it up to $430+ billion USD. b.. CBI IQD Reserve Requirement Adjustment: The CBI will change the current fractional IQD reserve requirements from 100% to 15% at the appropriate time. As a result, the the total potential money supply will be raised in value to $2.8 Trillion (430 billion/15), while at the same time, the total physical IQD in circulation will be reduced by removing the large bills with the 3 zeros over a period of 2 years, as they have indicated. c.. Oil Production Increased: Iraq will also execute the plan they announced to increase oil production from 2+ million barrels/day to 10 million barrels/day with the resulting revenues flowing directly to the Iraq treasury. d.. Oil Futures & Forex Contracts Added: To further stir the pot, the CBI will continue to use it's sales window to market oil futures and forex contracts. They have shown they can generate significant cash flow in the private market. Think of their impact in public markets. There, my friends, is how this plan will be enacted and made possible. Taking NOTHING, and turning it into SOMETHING, then bringing it back to a "manageable and reasonable something" that is accepted and supported by seeming endless supplies of oil. This is how the world's ENTIRE NEW MONETARY SYSTEM will be regenerated and supported and backed, given, in essence, a re-birth and renewed for most governments and economic regions. even by "Black Gold". So, here's the summary for all the "players" involved, giving ballpark numbers, and not taking into account superfluous costs, fees, and other small details that don't really affect the larger picture: a.. Investor's Net Gain: $10,000 - $200 = $9,800 x .65 = 6,370 for an investment that cost $10 b.. Bank's Net Gain: $200 added to "capital account", plus $2,000 they can use to loan out. c.. US Treasury Net Gain: $2,500 from the .25 spread on top + $3,500 in quarterly taxes = $6,000 d.. CBI/GOI/Iraqi People Net Gain: $12,500 - $162.50 = $12,337.50 + Profits from "Other Factors" e.. Overall Net Gain for All Involved: $6,370+$200+$6,000+12,337.20 = $24,907.20 This is the wealth that was generated from a single 10,000 IQD note that was given an original value of approximately $10! Is that amazing or what?! You tell me. can Iraq afford NOT to RV?!!! Will the IMF allow them to NOT RV their currency, but simply replace their large denoms for smaller ones?!!! LOL!!! In this scenario, EVERYONE WINS. and the IQD is slowly (over 2 years) taken back in to the CBI. eventually destroyed, leaving a manageable M2 behind, having created HUGE WEALTH throughout the world to re-supply what was allowed to be destroyed in the "great bleed" over a period of just a few weeks a couple of years ago, even the greatest redistribution of wealth the world has ever seen. Believe it or not, it has happened for this very purpose, and it IS coming! Go Iraq . Go Understanding. Go RV. Go Dinar! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotsofdinar Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 (edited) "At some point, a Fed-appointed agent orders $12,500 worth of oil from Iraq ." Neither the FED nor the U.S. Government buy oil. Oil companies buy oil. I don't know why this concept is so hard to understand. Edited November 26, 2011 by lotsofdinar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 "At some point, a Fed-appointed agent orders $12,500 worth of oil from Iraq ." Neither the FED nor the U.S. Government buy oil. Oil companies buy oil. I don't know why this concept is so hard to understand. Then how does the Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines, Coast Guard and/or National Guard fuel their equipment? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneysoon Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Oh if it were this easy... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseroque Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 I understand what he is saying however he took too long to say! Also, he bases all his figures on a dinar that is worth $10.00, which right now looks out of the question. He should have used a rate like Kuwait's which is what everybody is expecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 By bids trough vendors just like they acquire anything else, do honestly think the U.S. Government buys and processes crude oil from other countries? If the Government bought Crude what would they do with it (besides what's stored in the reserves) since the Government does not own or run the refineries? Do you think the Government pays oil company owned refineries to process oil into fuel, etc for them or maybe you are thinking a F16 can fly on unrefined crude oil? LOL nice try. I love how you tried to elaborate on my question to make me look the fool but failed. The original statement was "Neither the FED nor the U.S. Government buy oil." Yes, the U.S. Government buys oil and fuel. You even said this yourself. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotsofdinar Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Roadie, they buy oil and gas from vendors, not from Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Roadie, they buy oil and gas from vendors, not from Iraq. Yes I know, they buy oil and fuel from vendors. They buy, err nevermind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBBY ROMERO Posted November 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 WOW,GREAT RESPONCES IM NOT A GURU BY ANY MEANS.GLAD FOR THE RESPONCES.I WAS TRYING TO GET A HANDLE ON IT..WENT OVER MY LIL CAJUN HEAD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Hayduke Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Then how does the Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines, Coast Guard and/or National Guard fuel their equipment? Cool avitar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 (edited) What does the Government buying oil and fuel for it's own use have to do with importing oil? Except for the strategic reserve what would the U.S. Government do with crude oil? The question was about the Government importing crude oil from Iraq and you replied with the question of how do the armed forces get fuel for their equipment? How else was I supposed to take what you said? You clearly were saying that the Government must be importing crud oil if they are to fuel their equipment whether that's what you meant or not! The fuel used by the Armed forces may come from Iraq or Texas or where-ever, it depends on where the oil company that bid the contract for it got it from. Nevermind Doug, the joke was clearly way over your head. Lets move on. Thanks George Edited November 26, 2011 by Roadie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawaii 50 Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Everyone is LIke, "Let me explain this!" and "Listen to that!" but They Don't really know WHAT"S GOING ON! Just let the cards fall AND CHILLOUT! Man you would think everyone here Is a Rocket scientist. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Joke? The only joke is you trying to cover for yourself. Ok big man you're right. Your door prize is waiting for you. Just have answer this yes or no question...does the U.S. government purchase oil? Can we move on now? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerstripes Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 You are on the right track but look at how many Dinar Iraq has in circulation vs the Kuwaiti Dinar, that's where people get so confused. Iraq could theoretically RV to even $10 IF, and ONLY IF, the currency circulation numbers were low enough but it would mean only a VERY tiny fraction of the amount they have now. There are many reasons they might not want it to be at those numbers however so I seriously doubt we will ever see a $10 Dollar figure but $3 is entirely possible, but NOT with 30 Trillion, or even just 1 Trillion Dinar in circulation! Hi Doug, Just wondering if you could explain the CBI financial statement figures to me. I've tried to work through the figures, but failed. They list the 27 trillion in circulation as a liability, which of course it is. But they also list "Cash and Balances at Central Banks" (8 trillion +) as an asset. A question I have on this figure is, is that 8 trillion + dinar value, in dinars, or in foreign currency. If it's actual dinars at other central banks, how can that be an asset? The other figure that confuses me on their liability register, is the deposits of local and government banks. It is listed as 30 trillion +. This is higher than the actual physical currency. If this is money that the central bank holds for the other banks.........well how did they get 30 trillion worth if they have only printed 27 trillion. We keep hearing about how Iraq is a cash based society, and I think the money supply figures holds all of the answers (good or bad) to our investment. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDN Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 "At some point, a Fed-appointed agent orders $12,500 worth of oil from Iraq ." Neither the FED nor the U.S. Government buy oil. Oil companies buy oil. I don't know why this concept is so hard to understand. What about the US strategic oil reserve? - Who buys the oil for that to replenish? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDN Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Does it take it rocket science to figure out that a small war torn middle eastern country that does not even have reliable electricity or other utilities for most of it's citizens can not just simply adjust it's currency exchange ratio into Trillions of Dollars of worth? That's Trillions of Dollars more than is even available in the world? Come on, this whole thing started as rumor after Hussein was thrown out and people started thinking it was going to do like Kuwait, which was a totally different situation and unrelated to the events that devalued Iraqi currency. Besides Kuwait had only a tiny fraction of the Trillions of Dinar that Iraq has and if the Kuwaiti Dinar had of been circulated to 30 Trillion like Iraq has now then Kuwaiti currency would also be so inflated it too would be worthless. This rumor has grown all out of proportions and the pumpers and gurus have been hard at work making sure it does not die, what stared with a few people telling themselves that Iraqi Dinar would soon be worth a much higher value has gotten so out of hand that now it's not just going to make a few investors rich but it's going to save entire countries and now it's even going to pull the world out of recession! People THINK about what we have been telling ourselves! There is no possible way Iraq can RV it's currency into more Dollars than are available in the entire world and it don't take rocket science to figure that out. This nonsense about turning a thousand Dollars into Millions is just absurd, with just 25 Trillion Dinar in circulation that $3 similar to Kuwait would 75 Trillion Dollars which is many times more than all the money in the entire world combined! How can these people write nonsense such as is the subject here or better yet how can anyone keep on believing this junk? Fellows you can neg me right off the site and it won't change a thing, we need to be rational about this thing and take a look at the real possibilities and how best to handle a modest RV or maybe how to best handle a less than desirable outcome. Rehashing all this pumper fairytale nonsense is not doing anybody any good but rational discussion could benefit all of us. DougsDinar: I appreciate your reality check: Can you elaborate further as to what you see the outcome being? - The fact that you are a Senior Member makes me assume you are "Pro" RV, so I would be very interested hear your perspective as to outcome scenario..Thanks - CDN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerstripes Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Sorry I honestly don't feel comfortable trying to answer because it's somewhat confusing to me also, there are a couple of members here that I am fairly certain could provide a meaning answer. Thanks for the honest reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDN Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 DougsDinar: Thanks for your reply...makes alot of sense: In view of what you said, Do you feel it is worthwhile to set up a Warka or other "in Country" bank account and convert to digital IQD and take a haircut now converting our physical IQD into $ and wiring those proceeds to Warka? Anybody else out there care to provide input on both these issues please? Thanks..CDN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDN Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 IMHO that's a lot less risky than holding onto physical notes, besides it can have other advantages as well. Have you gone ahead and done that yourself and can you advise me on the best way to do that.../ Thanks - CDN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blu Collar Guru Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Everyone is LIke, "Let me explain this!" and "Listen to that!" but They Don't really know WHAT"S GOING ON! Just let the cards fall AND CHILLOUT! Man you would think everyone here Is a Rocket scientist. WELL SAID ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell M Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 :) IF it involves the rich getting richer, the Powers that Be having more power and the survivors barely above surviving then the Government is definately involved in it....government and a handful of others who dont realize that without the working class all their walls will crumble...But Fortunately, Mans plans are not guaranteed, and GODs plans are: what will be...WILL BE...ENJOY THE RIDE... and Please, make sure youre on the winning team...Team Jesus. PayDay is right around the corner for Team Jesus. PS: Hey Bobbee! Hey mi cha Lesse Bon ton Roulet!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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