Statement made by Kaperoni to address JayP's attacks on his no LOP list

[dhardage]

WOW DUDES ! HEAVY DEBATES! DAMN GLAD I GET (THE BIGGER PICTURE). THE DINAR WILL BE WORTH MORE THAN THE MEASLY TENTH OF A PENNY WE ALL PAID FOR IT! WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO COMPREHEND?! WE'LL ALL MAKE "$" ON OUR INVESTMENT NO MATTER WHAT FLAVOR IT IS OR HOW MUCH OF THE PIE GETS EATEN BECAUSE WE'RE ALL GETTING A PIECE ! IT'S A BIG PIE N TAKES TIME TO BAKE IS ALL........

good! I'm hungry!! Now where's my piece? I'll trade ya for some chocolate wine!!

[keepmwlknfny]

If you haven't figured it out by now, LouG is Kaperoni. Go back to the first post, where LouG signs his name "Kap" at the bottom. That same post is on another site....word for word. Pretttttyyy sneaky .....using another name Kaperoni.

Figures!!

Maybe he came under another name to actually learn something??? Hahaha but he has to play nice for progressive discussion to continue......

[MrDinarman]

keep, keep on keepin it real, got your back here.....

I second that!! I'm so sick of these NEWBIE wanna be gurus coming in here like they own the place.

[dhardage]

Just got an email from Robin (dhardage) and she asked me PLEASE

send out one of her *Famous Group* hug ....

I have a feeling she's gonna be missing US on her cruise!

I know I'll be missing her witty humor

Go>>>>RV

THX Dah-Kota!! OMG, was watching the other JayP/Kap thread in email digest on my phone and all of a sudden it got TOO quiet!! Didn't know the conversation had been moved! You people are making me sea sick and I'm not even on the boat yet!! LOVE YOU ALL! WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER!!

I tried to talk about how it could happen and LouG told me to get off my crack pipe.

AWWWW sorry poke!!

Funny how you can continually bash everyone in every single post and no one kicks your ass off the site. I guess it says what this site is really about. Not facts, or discussion, but obnoxious jerks with little weenies.

I am grateful that you have maintained some sense of maturity in this discussion. Ummmmmmmmmmmm or not......

[Dah-kota]

THX Dah-Kota!! OMG, was watching the other JayP/Kap thread in email digest on my phone and all of a sudden it got TOO quiet!! Didn't know the conversation had been moved! You people are making me sea sick and I'm not even on the boat yet!! LOVE YOU ALL! WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER!!

AWWWW sorry poke!!

You're welcome

Glad to see you can Post..so far.

Have 2 much fun and drink lots for me

but, don't get sea sick

[dhardage]

thats not what your mom said pal!

lou g i apologize to you i didnt look at who posted the littel weinine comment i thought it was keep walking i meant it for him my apologies bud!

What difference does it make who said it?? It was IMO a comment made by a 5 year old!

[billio0]

I want to thank you Kaperoni for providing me the proper insight into all of this.

Although I DID comment favorably to the the response of tenmillion, your rebuttal is by far the best I have ever seen on this or any other site on the web.

Congratulations for being immediately forthright and succinct.

I shall continue to support your views and opinions. I have no contacts anywhere with this investment. The folks who talked me into it constantly try to feed me the B.S., which led me here in the first place.

I too occasionally present contrary ideas and speculation on the IQD, and as a result I too get bashed and criticized. I learned that this crowd is mostly made up of crybabies expecting microwave results, or consistent natsayers just for the sake of being so; at least with regard to the shallow thinkers. The deep thinkers like you generally say little and keep a low profile. Thus, I laud you for your courage.

Thanks once again, Kaperoni.

[dhardage]

LouG-I agree with your opinions

However you have fallen into the same trap that alot of us have.

Arguing or playing *** for tat with DV's resident "Juvenile Delinquent" is a serious waist of time.

If negatives - got you booted he would have been gone along time ago.

Just my two bits

GO RV

Yes, absolutely.............let's follow someone who can only contribute about the size of a man's "weenie"!!

I second that!! I'm so sick of these NEWBIE wanna be gurus coming in here like they own the place.

I'm in!

You're welcome

Glad to see you can Post..so far.

Have 2 much fun and drink lots for me

but, don't get sea sick

yep! the miracle of bad hotel internet. Was on my phone when I sent you the email, now I have my puter! Yippie!! Hey bump, any idea why I keep getting an error message when I try to log in using my phone?

[Scrumdiddles]

It is a devaluation because in your example your changing the printed face value of the note. And that will not happen. Do you honestly think, the worlds banks, are going to have a pile of Iraqi Dinar (they state they will as a foreign currency reserve) and have the printed face value devalued? Put the bong away pal. They have already reduced the money supply by collecting the majority of the 3 zero notes in Iraq. That is a fact. And your own statement is just the opposite of what is happening in Iraq. Iraq does not have severe inflation and if you look up that scenario you mention - it states, it is done as a last resort. Shabibi has stated that his inflation is around 7% and its called import inflation which can easily be controlled by adjusting the exchange rate. If you want to throw out BS, call it that. Don't try to argue to argue when you don't know what your saying.

Thank you, I have been saying that all along. These retards think it is no devaluation because they restrike the note without the 000 on it. Sorry, taking away 24,775 from the 25k note is devaluation. Duh.

[keepmwlknfny]

Thank you, I have been saying that all along. These retards think it is no devaluation because they restrike the note without the 000 on it. Sorry, taking away 24,775 from the 25k note is devaluation. Duh.

Devaluing is lowering the exchange rate.....

Thats not what happens in a RD....

You would probly enjoy Kaps site better.......they like forum facts just as much as you....

[dhardage]

Thank you, I have been saying that all along. These retards think it is no devaluation because they restrike the note without the 000 on it. Sorry, taking away 24,775 from the 25k note is devaluation. Duh.

The maturity level in this thread astounds me...............seriously?? Can't anyone disagree without reverting back to grade school?? Just asking!

[MrDinarman]

The maturity level in this thread astounds me...............seriously?? Can't anyone disagree without reverting back to grade school?? Just asking!

IMHO there are some seriously desperate people on this site. They are most likely out of work and struggling to survive, so they turn their anger to people who tell them they aren't going to be overnight millionaires. This is what happens when you deal with low costs, low risk investments: they attract the guppies not the whales.

[pocono]

The maturity level in this thread astounds me...............seriously?? Can't anyone disagree without reverting back to grade school?? Just asking!

Gave you a +1 to help with the uncalled for negs.

[Scrumdiddles]

IMHO there are some seriously desperate people on this site. They are most likely out of work and struggling to survive, so they turn their anger to people who tell them they aren't going to be overnight millionaires. This is what happens when you deal with low costs, low risk investments: they attract the guppies not the whales.

Dont switch the argument, none of them said they were going to be overnight millionaires, they argued no lop no rd. See that is the kind of crap alway gets brought up to defend your lop theory. Ahhh it going to lop because we are not going to be millionaires overnight, Iraq cant afford it, ahhhh.

That is a fantastically irrational statement that is unduly imposed on all Rv believers. NO LOP

[keepmwlknfny]

Dont switch the argument, none of them said they were going to be overnight millionaires, they argued no lop no rd. See that is the kind of crap alway gets brought up to defend your lop theory. Ahhh it going to lop because we are not going to be millionaires overnight, Iraq cant afford it, ahhhh.

That is a fantastically irrational statement that is unduly imposed on all Rv believers. NO LOP

You must be related to Kap....unless YOU are his super secret translator.....

[Scrumdiddles]

You must be related to Kap....unless YOU are his super secret translator.....

Do i need to conditionally accept your offer again, Keep? :lol:

[HopefulTxn]

Dont switch the argument, none of them said they were going to be overnight millionaires, they argued no lop no rd. See that is the kind of crap alway gets brought up to defend your lop theory. Ahhh it going to lop because we are not going to be millionaires overnight, Iraq cant afford it, ahhhh.

That is a fantastically irrational statement that is unduly imposed on all Rv believers. NO LOP

Sorry, but Kap has repeatedly stated no RD and he pushes his view of a 1 dinar to $1 rate. How is that not pushing the overnight millionaire aspect of the speculation?

[Hawkeye64]

Where did Kap say he never studied Redonomination? You are taking some other posters word for it? That goes to show you too have no clue. Bring facts baby, bring fact to the table to argue. How do you know I am a man? Maybe Lou is a nickname. If you saw me, you might drop your drawers and expose yourself. Then I would laugh at that tiny little thing hangin there. HAHA

Are you serious? What ever credibility you may have had is gone with ridiculous comments like this. Why so defensive anyway?

[PTguy]

You must be related to Kap....unless YOU are his super secret translator.....

Hahahahahahahahah...............................................hahahahahahahahaha.................................................hahahahahahah.........................................hahhahahahahahhahaha..................................

hahahah.......................................LOL..................................hahahahahahahahahahahahahha....................................................................ahhahahahah,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,bond lady i challenge you...............................hahhahahahahahaha.............................

Im a key board Ninja........................hahahahahahhahahaha............................whats wrong with an alternative lifestyle...................................hahahahahhahahaha.........................lets play dungeons and dragons.............................hahahahahahaha.

then we can play .....................................................halo ..................................................................hahahahahahahaha...........................................................bond lady prove it.....................................hahahahahaha

..................LOL.....................................hahahahahahahah.

Any body else see something wrong with this format. anybody?

[armondtoth]

JayP,

I don't need to discredit you, you do it yourself with your own statements that are contradictory. What you do is interpret statements the way you think they should be interpreted rather than what the correct interpretation is. You forget, I have an Arabic translator friend. Not some software off the internet. The truth is...The CBI is is making a comparison to the purchasing power to explain to the citizens what it will be like post RV, not telling them their currency is devaluing. That is where you try to sit and convince the masses there is LOP or re-denomination. And that is where you are wrong. They could or would never take the wealth from the people after they already took it in 2003. Your common sense lacks common sense.

Dr. Fedel is also a friend of mine. Yes, he actually is as we correspond. And once again, you are wrong. He, like others, have made reference to Turkey, etc as to the procedures of a currency change, never has he referred to the actual event. Again, you twist it to your liking to imply your results.

As well, when or where have I guaranteed results on the dinar? Again more lies by you. I simply clarify the many articles and documents out to give factual evidence. You don't, yours is nothing but a theory, full of holes, misguide information and lack of fact....and bad at that. And if you must know, I am more worried about the GOI failing (hence a collapse of polices) than the notes ever devaluing.

You must be confusing me with some other gurus. Never once do i talk about contracts in dinars. In fact, If asked, often state that all contracts are written in USD as well as the Budget, and employee pay. Their main source of income is USD, therefore it makes sense to price accordingly. Again, your creating lies.

Oh by the way, you should clarify that you did not come into another site chat room to discuss this matter with me, to learn the facts, you came in with a fake name to disrupt the room directly after a chat to cause as much trouble you and Tenmillion (also using a fake name) could, with with as many people as you could. Big difference pal. Why did you do that? Because you were already banned by the site admin for doing it before. Therefore, you hold me responsible for your behavior? Laughable. Or how about the little emails you send around? Like to my friend at Douchebag site? Is that your way of trying to talk directly with me and learn? You see i know a bullchitter when i see one....and your full of it.

My advise, get yourself a good Arabic translator to give you the correct interpretation of what the CBI is teaching the people of Iraq. That way, you can come on your little site and educate people rather than scare or misguide them. Oh that's right, that's why you put this nonsense on other sites, cause you have no one who wants to hear it on Tens? What she got 200 members? How is that peeps come to my site after posting a response on your site only to find it has been deleted because it was not to your liking? That does not seem like your educating anyone..but spoon force feeding them BS and non-sense.

Oh btw, I don't own chit on DinarAlert, I simply agreed to come and teach people (for free in might add). You might want to get that fact correct as well before you tell others more lies. How much money have you and Ten made of her little site with them ads? What a joke.

Kap

Well now I don't think JayP ever said there would be a LOP he just stated that there was no such term in the financial world which he is correct. As for a redenomination I think that it is a very strong possibility.

[LouG]

If you haven't figured it out by now, LouG is Kaperoni. Go back to the first post, where LouG signs his name "Kap" at the bottom. That same post is on another site....word for word. Pretttttyyy sneaky .....using another name Kaperoni.

sorry, I not kap. I just posted what he had which had his name on it.

JayP Responds to Kaperoni's "10 Reasons"

10 reasons why the IQD will not LOP

1.Monetary policy was a success talking inflation from 35% or higher to around 7% currently.

2.Any type of currency devaluation (LOP) is considered a failure of monetary policy. Dr. Shabibi has not failed.

3.Lesser value notes in circulation such as 50, 250, 500. Devaluing the larger 3 zero notes would make them worth less than these lesser notes.

4.Iraq wants the dinar to be an international reserve currency. Cannot devalue the notes in reserve (25,000), circulate them as payment, or traded amongst countries.

5.Iraq holds arguable the second largest oil reserves and is mineral rich. They are too wealthy to not honor the value stated on the notes.

6.Iraq has stated..They want the “strongest currency in the Middle East” Any such type of LOP would be a devaluation and therefore not considered strong.

7.US holds dinar as a result if funding the CBI initial reserves. This dinar will eventually payoff the war debt.

8.One of the authors of the currency exchange plan - Assistant Professor Dr. Fadel states in his documentation, “We must emphasize the extremely important issue is that if you remove three zeroes from the currency should not affect the actual value thereof to be trading in the old currency…

9.In 2003 when the NID was introduced at it’s initial rate, the previous currency was in essence devalued taking all wealth from the country to prevent funding of terrorism. Raising the currencies value will in essence, return that wealth now that the GOI is stable and economic conditions have improved.

10.The CBI has stated “both currencies will co-exist” and the process will not change the “monetary value” of the dinar.

You don't have to be an expert on the IQD to see through these arguments. I don't know JayP. I don't even know if it's a man or a woman. But the response is just about perfect.

Response to Kaperoni's 10 reason post

There was a post that was made by Kaperoni that I would like to address. I am not sure why he would post the things that he did here, as all of the reasons he posted just have no merit, and can easily be proved as false. I understand that it is important to keep site traffic in order to sell products to make money, but not at the expense of misinforming people about this investment, which can put a new investor that may not know better at financial risk.

I have posted a response for each of the reasons he provided. Please see my responses in Blue. I sincerely hope that I can clarify some of the misunderstandings that his post may have caused.

10 reasons why the IQD will not LOP

1. Monetary policy was a success talking inflation from 35% or higher to around 7% currently.

This is true, that the policies have in fact reduced inflation, so I will give Kap a nod on that one, but what is not true, is that this is a reason it will not redenominate. Let’s first make a distinction here, that there is no such thing as a “lop”, and it is just a made up word. The correct terminology is a redenomination, and a lop is NOT a devaluation, nor is a redenomination a devaluation.

That being said, historically, when a country redenominates, it is usually done as a sign that the inflationary period has ended, and why they usually will redenominate after hyper-inflation, not generally during that hyper inflationary period. In fact, it is more of a psychological thing than anything, as well as to ease the cash transactions with the smaller numbers. Now the important thing to keep in mind, is that this does not mean that high inflation cannot occur after a redenomination also, because it could, as it has happened in prior redenominations as well. A redenomination is not meant to resolve inflation, therefore this reason simply does not prove what he is trying to say.

JayP is mistaken here. Google "redenomination" and look at the Wikipedia article. There you will see that out of some 50 redenominations posted all but 7 of them were for severe inflation or hyperinflation. This situation does NOT exist in Iraq. While there is inflation, this is not the primary reason for changing the value of the dinar, according to both Shabibi and Al-Zubaidi, who have had a plan for over 5 years.

2. Any type of currency devaluation (LOP) is considered a failure of monetary policy. Dr. Shabibi has not failed.

As stated in response to #1, a redenomination does not mean a devaluation. This is a statement that is simply NOT true. In fact, once a redenomination has occurred, the consolidated value of the Dinar could very well be just under, equal to, or over the dollar. For example, if a Dinar is currently .00086:1, then a 25K note is worth about 21.5 USD, and then in a case of a redenomination, if they were to move the decimal over 3 places, it would apply to all things the same, prices, rates, accounts, etc, therefore the new rate can potentially be .86, therefore after the decimal is moved over 3 places, 25 new dinars, would still be worth 21.5 USD. This shows NO devaluation has occurred, and the strength of the new currency has not changed once the zeros are deleted, just as they have stated in those articles we read.

In a redenomination, it would not mean Shabibi has failed, only succeeded in his plans that he has been saying he wanted to do all along. It is the govt right now that does not want him to follow through on his plans to redenominate at this point for reasons they gave of fears of corruption or counterfeiting in the process.

See the following link:

http://www.rferl.org/content/Iraq_Pl...n/1950504.html

”Saleh said by the end of 2010 the new banknotes will be fully introduced while the old banknotes will be gradually removed from circulation.”

Now, if the old banknotes will be gradually removed from circulation, rather than "lopped" then Saleh's statement makes sense. It does NOT make sense if there is a lop, because the "new banknotes" would be worthless while the "old banknotes" remain in circulation. The only way in which Shabibi's plan can be considered a success is with a raise in the value of the dinar.

3. Lesser value notes in circulation such as 50, 250, 500. Devaluing the larger 3 zero notes would make them worth less than these lesser notes.

This is an interesting one, one that had me thinking when Kap started with this theory almost a year ago. Unfortunately, this holds no water, as in a redenomination, they do not just redenominate some notes, and not others. When they talk about the 3 zeros, what this actually means is the movement of the decimal point over 3 places. This would apply to all notes, accounts, prices alike. Please look up the terminology for a Homogenous function. You will see the definition of this there. You will also find that this is a term that is used in these 3 zero articles explaining the process as well. Please see the link below and you will see where it uses this term in the explanation of the process:

http://iraqdinar.us/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=28096

I followed this link and found this statement in the article: "Under such circumstances, the deterioration of the value of the currency increased the coin most of the 25 dinars to 25,000 dinars, which means that inflation is added, these zeros *. _____________________________ * do not fit categories of existing currency with the current economic situation and the next. For example, and before the outbreak of the Iran-Iraq war was category of 25 dinars equivalent to $ 75 purchasing power of the time or the equivalent in the present 300 thousand dinars."

This clearly states that before the Iran-Iraq war the dinar was worth $3 per dinar. Saleh is indicating that the plan is to return the value to that level, or higher.

Now, here is a definition of Homogenous:

1: of the same or a similar kind or nature

2: of uniform structure or composition throughout homogeneous neighborhood>

3: having the property that if each variable is replaced by a constant times that variable the constant can be factored out : having each term of the same degree if all variables are considered homogeneous equation>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homogeneous

Here is another good explanation:

http://www.economics.utoronto.ca/osborne/MathTutorial/HOMF.HTM

4. Iraq wants the dinar to be an international reserve currency. Cannot devalue the notes in reserve (25,000), circulate them as payment, or traded amongst countries.

First, in this response, please see my response to #2. If the CBI were to redenominate, that does NOT mean a devaluation. That is 2 different things, but something those that want to distort the facts do not want you to realize.

2nd, the rate does not determine tradeability. Last I checked, the Vietnam Dong at 21,000:1 is as good as any other currency, just takes a whole lot more Dong to do business with it. So I have to say, this reason, holds as much value as the Dinar or the Dong does right now!

Your point remains valid irrespective of what JayP just wrote. The simple fact is that Maliki and Shabibi are on record stating that the IQD will become the strongest currency in the Middle East. This can only happen if the VALUE of the IQD is the strongest in the Middle East. There is no other meaning for the term "strongest" that I am aware of.

5. Iraq holds arguable the second largest oil reserves and is mineral rich. They are too wealthy to not honor the value stated on the notes.

Are they wealthy with the Oil reserves, and mineral rich, sure, I will give him a nod on this one as well, but that does not mean that they would not redenominate. The determination to redenominate is not based on Oil reserves, and even if so, having the oil, and getting the oil out of the ground is 2 different things. In either case though, I disagree that there is so much Oil that they can just revalue 1000x the amount or more than they are at right now, not without reducing the money supply first, and this was even stated by the CBI themselves.

JayP just stepped on his own foot here with the statement "not without reducing the money supply first". In fact this is just what Shabibi has been doing by drawing down the money supply from 25 trillion dinars to 25 billion dinars. He is on record that this is his plan since December of 2009. I can find the quote if necessary. With nearly $75 billion in reserves, plus the pile of Saddam's gold found in Kurdistan, plus the return of bank funds around the world, as well as other things like their ships, Iraq will have enough wealth in CASH to afford 100% coverage of its currency at $3.00 per dinar. Add to that the oil reserves, whether out of the ground or not, and Iraq can definitely afford a 1000x increase in the value of the dinar.

6. Iraq has stated..They want the “strongest currency in the Middle East” Any such type of LOP would be a devaluation and therefore not considered strong.

This again goes back to #2. A redenomination is NOT a devaluation. Prove that they are the same thing, and then this is something to consider, until then, I think that we should be a little more realistic.

This kind of answer is what is called "obfuscation". Instead of answering the question he comes up with a statement that is not related to he question. Your point is well made, namely that Iraq is on record to have the strongest currency in the Middle East. Whether a redenomination is a devaluation or not isn't relevant. Why? Because a redenomination will NOT make the dinar the strongest currency. This is the question he failed to answer. You do not have to prove that redeominating is the same as devaluing, only that it won't make the currency strong.

7. US holds dinar as a result if funding the CBI initial reserves. This dinar will eventually payoff the war debt.

All I can say about this, is show the proof. I will be willing to entertain this idea, if someone, anyone can show any shred of evidence of this to be true.

Let me provide the link below:

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Documents/mfh.txt

This is from the US Treasury website showing the US Foreign Reserves. You will see that it does not indicate anywhere in here that is shows IQD holdings. There is a group called Oil Exporters. If you notice the 3/ next to the name that refers to the #3 at the bottom and it reads:

“3/ Oil exporters include Ecuador, Venezuela, Indonesia, Bahrain, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar,

Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Algeria, Gabon, Libya, and Nigeria.”

This means that the amount shown in the row for Oil Exporter nations consist of the combined holdings of all of those nations currency. So unless proof can be given that we hold as much Dinar as some would like to say, this is speculation at the very best, and nothing more. Using this as a basis as to why they would not redenominate would simply be wrong, and I hardly think that a guess at something should ever be used as proof of something, especially when the proof itself is not verifiable. I challenge everyone to ask Kap this question, and I would be willing to bet you would get banned for even asking the question. I know, because I did.. lol!!

The other point I would like to make on this is that, even if we did hold Dinar, if they were to redenominate, as I stated in prior responses, this would not be a devaluation, therefore it would not mean any loss for the US reserves, but it would also mean that it would not be paying for any wars, and for those that may have heard of the wars will pay for themselves rumors, this is not true, and Bush never said those words. I would challenge anyone to provide proof of the quote if they do believe this. In fact, I can provide you with precisely where I believe that rumor came from. It was actually a statement made by Wolfowitz in 2003 talking about Iraq using Oil to pay for their own reconstruction, and I believe some guru out there twisted this quote to what the rumor has become today, like a tall tale over the years. Here is the quote:

Wolfowitz: "We're dealing with a country that could really finance its own reconstruction." As Think Progress noted, then-Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz testified before Congress on March 27, 2003, that "the oil revenues of that country [iraq] could bring between 50 and 100 billion dollars over the course of the next two or three years. Now, there are a lot of claims on that money, but that's --- we're not dealing with Afghanistan that's a permanent ward of the international community. We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction and relatively soon."

I agree that no one has yet found Bush's supposed statement that Iraq would pay for the war. I looked for it myself at one time and found Wolfowitz's statement quoted above. Therefore we should not base our argument on this point (Bush's supposed statement). However, and this is important, your statement didn't mention Bush! DUH! So, this is the point and it is well made: even if the US has NO dinars in reserve at this point (which I seriously doubt), when we all cash in they will be FAT with dinars at the UST. Therefore our reserve position will be enhanced by the RV'd dinar, and that will pay for the war.

8. One of the authors of the currency exchange plan - Assistant Professor Dr. Fadel states in his documentation, “We must emphasize the extremely important issue is that if you remove three zeroes from the currency should not affect the actual value thereof to be trading in the old currency…

Yes this was said, but please note what I stated in response to #2, in a redenomination, there is no affect on the purchase power, so I believe this to be accurate. In other words a 25K note worth .00086, and a 25 dinar note worth .86, they BOTH equal 21.5 USD, so a redenomination does NOT affect the actual value of their wealth, so this is no proof at all that they will not redenominate.

I would also like to mention a point about this author and what was said in this plan that Kap posted and spoke about:

2 - experiences of other countries: Moved from other countries suffered hyperinflation a similar course, particularly in Russia in the nineties of the last century. Turkey has also withdrawn (6) zeros from its currency without prejudice to the true value. Providing Treasury Secretary Turkish then Ali Babacan, Minister of Foreign Affairs the current bill to get rid of zeros six in the Turkish lira and by 2005, and resulted in inflation witnessed in Turkey that the price of one euro to one million and 7,820,333 Turkish liras,and Turkey has witnessed discussions on the adoption of such a wage-earners in the removal of six zeroes from the currency. And seem to rein in high inflation in Turkey is not only through the removal of zeros six of the Turkish currency for the first time succeeded the Turkish government in reducing the rate of inflation to the target set for the current year and of 19.3% and although this rate is high compared to other countries and the bill was introduced to the Prime Minister's Office to the application and began the application where it began trading currencies for a specified period after which the old currency was withdrawn and replaced the new currency.

http://dinaralert.webs.com/apps/forums/topics/show/6612064-assistant-professor-dr-fadel-punitive-a-special-article-economic-forum-uae-

So as you can see, even in this plan that Kap talked about, he failed to mention this part where they even talk about a redenomination, and mention Turkey and what they did.

I will also add from this post:

3 - the possible effects of this procedure The phenomenon of rising prices in the world is caused mainly by the decline in currency values ​​and thus lower the purchasing value. And your conception that the best remedy for these reflections on the psychology of the Iraqi individual and the market is in the drafting of a new Iraqi currency prices are back with the logical relationship between the cost of the real item and the selling price based on the market. The write-off three zeros from the Iraqi currency is tantamount to re-price their nature and reduce the size of the introduction of inflation growing, and perhaps the best example of the Turkish experience.The written off after six zeros to become with him a million pounds and the only one and the same purchasing power for the previous million, it became possible to purchase Blairh one was in the past one million pounds.

The abolition of the zeros from the currency, which inevitably suffer from inflation will limit the negative effects of the current world of hyperbole in the prices of goods and services and will return for the currency balance and weight.

That such a decision, if adopted by the Iraqi government, he would not return to the Iraqi currency value based upon, but will reflect as well as the flexibility of the economy and his movement in the right direction for that from our analysts economists to look seriously for this phenomenon by holding seminars and conferences to form through which the views of access to rein in inflation and a rise in prices and the return of the Iraqi currency to the value of real and normal.

Please read this for yourselves, and you will see what this plan is really sayng.

The omission of three zeroes of the Iraqi currency to achieve the following objectives: 1 - to fight inflation, 2 - support the banking system

3 - help to know the size of the wealth distribution and how 4 - banking system's ability to control liquidity, 5 - create financial surpluses are used in financing 6 - to increase awareness of the banking system.

Unfortunately, this contradicts Kaps own theory.

Please note the following quote from the article above (2 paragraphs up): "the return of the Iraqi currency to the value of real and normal. " Clearly this statement indicates that the current value is not "real" and not "normal". The question, then, is this: "What is real and normal?" The answer comes from the Ministry of Finance itself:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=ar&tl=en&u=http://www.aknews.com/ar/aknews/2/112476&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1

Here is the quote: "It is worth mentioning that the Central Bank of Iraq said in a statement issued on February 6 this year, announced a plan to delete the zeros of the Iraqi currency before the end of the year 2010, and has completed 50% of the preparations for the work according to this strategy. ومن المؤمل ان ينتهي العمل بهذه السياسية المالية نهاية العام الحالي. It is hoped to be completed this fiscal policy later this year. "

Now, notice that the process of deleting the three zeros BEGAN in February of 2010. JayP says that the term "delete the 3 zeros" means moving the decimal point. So, have they been moving the decimal point since February of 2010? Of course not! And the process was 50% completed at the end of 2010. So does that mean that they've moved the decimal 1.5 places thus far? Of course not!

This statement ALONE is enough to prove that "remove the three zeros" has to do with reducing the money supply by removing the NOTES with 3 zeros, and has NOTHING to do with moving a decimal point.

”9. In 2003 when the NID was introduced at it’s initial rate, the previous currency was in essence devalued taking all wealth from the country to prevent funding of terrorism. Raising the currencies value will in essence, return that wealth now that the GOI is stable and economic conditions have improved.

I am sorry, but this one really is laughable. The fact of the matter, is that this one, is absolutely untrue and inaccurate. In fact, let me provide some proof that I have that proves this one to be untrue. Please see the below link:

http://treasury.un.org/operationalrates/Details.aspx?code=IQD&currency=Iraqi+Dinar&country=Iraq

This goes back to Dec 2001. Please see the rate as of Dec 2001: 2023:1 .. yep, that is Dec 2001, well before the NID was introduced, or before we even ever invaded Iraq. The fact and reality is that the currency was being devalued years prior to the NID. In fact, the rate right now is almost twice as high as it was back then PRIOR to the new notes being changed. This was due to inflation, and why the amount of dinars that were being printed were printed. So it would be very wrong to use this as any proof that they would not redenominate, and in fact, only further provide proof that they need to reduce the money supply by redenominating.

Sorry, but he is incorrect here as well. The rate of the IQD in Dec of 2001 was not a real rate at all. It was an artificial rate created by the Saddam regime, which also at one point had created a rate of $3.50 (and which also wasn't real). Therefore, he cannot use these numbers to make his argument. The simple fact is that the UN devalued the currency to a REAL number when they entered the country. It has grown from roughly 4000:1 to the current 1170:1 during the last 7 years. Now they are ready to remove the large notes and take it back to the early 1980s value of $3.50, or more.

10. The CBI has stated “both currencies will co-exist” and the process will not change the “monetary value” of the dinar.

This is entirely possible depending on the exchange process. Romania for example did the same thing, and Iraq even used Romania as one of the examples or models to their plans. There was a time, for about 18 months, where during the exchange period people would be able to use either the old or the new currency for a period of time, and prices were adjusted based on if they paid with the old or new currency, moving the decimal over on the price. Please see the link below that shows an example of a price tag in Romania based on the ROL (old currency) or the RON (new currency).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Romania_revalue_tag.jpg

The CBI themselves used Romania as an example of what they intend to do. NO, THEY DID NOT!

If the intent here is to prove that a redenomination cannot happen, then unfortunately, I think that there will need to be a better attempt at it than this, and a bit more solid proof than this that is for sure.

I do believe that maybe they can just revalue without needing to redenominate, and that is what I hope for in this as everyone else, I am in this to gain just like everyone. While I do hope for the very best though, I also need to be honest with myself, and everyone else. I think giving hope is a wonderful thing, but distorting the facts, or the truths to give hope is not the way to go about it though.

Kap's intentions may be sincere, and I truly hope that is the case, but I think that in order to be fair, and to be honest with his members, he should either show some real proof that a redenomination cannot happen, proof much stronger than this, or openly admit that it really is a very strong possibility that we all should keep under consideration, and think about.

Both currencies (large and small notes) can co-exist with a revaluation. However, with a redenomination that is not possible unless the value of the 3 zero notes is reduced, which Iraq is on records stating will NOT happen. If you redenominate then a 50 dinar note would be worthless. If you revalue, then a 50 dinar note will be worth $150 and a 25,000 dinar note will be worth $75,000, which means that the"monetary value" will not change. They will remain at parity to each other (in the same proportion) except revalued. This would NOT be the case in a redenomination.

[LouG]

Ran out of time above are comments from Enorrste on this matter if you see them. Hard to follow.

[JayP]

10. The CBI has stated “both currencies will co-exist” and the process will not change the “monetary value” of the dinar.

This is entirely possible depending on the exchange process. Romania for example did the same thing, and Iraq even used Romania as one of the examples or models to their plans. There was a time, for about 18 months, where during the exchange period people would be able to use either the old or the new currency for a period of time, and prices were adjusted based on if they paid with the old or new currency, moving the decimal over on the price. Please see the link below that shows an example of a price tag in Romania based on the ROL (old currency) or the RON (new currency).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Romania_revalue_tag.jpg

The CBI themselves used Romania as an example of what they intend to do. NO, THEY DID NOT!

I will be happy to respond, but just in a quick glance, I right away saw that you stated here "NO, THEY DID NOT!" about the Romania comparison.. Please see the below link:

http://www.daraddustour.com/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA%D9%81%D8%A7%D8%B5%D9%8A%D9%84/tabid/94/smid/433/ArticleID/57344/reftab/61/Default.aspx

" Saleh indicated that the currency current Iraqi formed a cluster of large cash and up to 30 trillion Iraqi dinars while the number of securities traded in the market to four trillion paper after it was cash block is 25 billion dinars in 1980, explaining that the largest currency in Iraq at the present time is equal to $ 21 and is unable to cover the payments large. He emphasized that the process of deleting the zeros and the currency exchange is the process of administrative reform of the currency, the Iraqi monetary and therefore does not affect the lifting of the value of things or change the income Iraqi individual, adding that people's fear of deleting the zeros is the psychological fear, as the process of deleting the zeros and the currency exchange applied in 53 countries, including Turkey, when you delete six zeros from its currency and Romania, which deleted four zeroes."

So I appreciate your attempt and response but yes, comparisons to Romania HAVE been made, and there are plenty others as well like this. I will be happy to respond to all of the others as well though if necessary I do not want them to do like Romania, and hope that does not happen, but we cannot just deny that comparisons were made when explaining their intentions, but I do hope that they decide to go with a low RV, or do something instead of this.

Edited November 27, 2011 by JayP

[JayP]

sorry, I not kap. I just posted what he had which had his name on it.

JayP Responds to Kaperoni's "10 Reasons"

10 reasons why the IQD will not LOP

1.Monetary policy was a success talking inflation from 35% or higher to around 7% currently.

2.Any type of currency devaluation (LOP) is considered a failure of monetary policy. Dr. Shabibi has not failed.

3.Lesser value notes in circulation such as 50, 250, 500. Devaluing the larger 3 zero notes would make them worth less than these lesser notes.

4.Iraq wants the dinar to be an international reserve currency. Cannot devalue the notes in reserve (25,000), circulate them as payment, or traded amongst countries.

5.Iraq holds arguable the second largest oil reserves and is mineral rich. They are too wealthy to not honor the value stated on the notes.

6.Iraq has stated..They want the “strongest currency in the Middle East” Any such type of LOP would be a devaluation and therefore not considered strong.

7.US holds dinar as a result if funding the CBI initial reserves. This dinar will eventually payoff the war debt.

8.One of the authors of the currency exchange plan - Assistant Professor Dr. Fadel states in his documentation, “We must emphasize the extremely important issue is that if you remove three zeroes from the currency should not affect the actual value thereof to be trading in the old currency…

9.In 2003 when the NID was introduced at it’s initial rate, the previous currency was in essence devalued taking all wealth from the country to prevent funding of terrorism. Raising the currencies value will in essence, return that wealth now that the GOI is stable and economic conditions have improved.

10.The CBI has stated “both currencies will co-exist” and the process will not change the “monetary value” of the dinar.

You don't have to be an expert on the IQD to see through these arguments. I don't know JayP. I don't even know if it's a man or a woman. But the response is just about perfect.

Response to Kaperoni's 10 reason post

There was a post that was made by Kaperoni that I would like to address. I am not sure why he would post the things that he did here, as all of the reasons he posted just have no merit, and can easily be proved as false. I understand that it is important to keep site traffic in order to sell products to make money, but not at the expense of misinforming people about this investment, which can put a new investor that may not know better at financial risk.

I have posted a response for each of the reasons he provided. Please see my responses in Blue. I sincerely hope that I can clarify some of the misunderstandings that his post may have caused.

10 reasons why the IQD will not LOP

1. Monetary policy was a success talking inflation from 35% or higher to around 7% currently.

This is true, that the policies have in fact reduced inflation, so I will give Kap a nod on that one, but what is not true, is that this is a reason it will not redenominate. Let’s first make a distinction here, that there is no such thing as a “lop”, and it is just a made up word. The correct terminology is a redenomination, and a lop is NOT a devaluation, nor is a redenomination a devaluation.

That being said, historically, when a country redenominates, it is usually done as a sign that the inflationary period has ended, and why they usually will redenominate after hyper-inflation, not generally during that hyper inflationary period. In fact, it is more of a psychological thing than anything, as well as to ease the cash transactions with the smaller numbers. Now the important thing to keep in mind, is that this does not mean that high inflation cannot occur after a redenomination also, because it could, as it has happened in prior redenominations as well. A redenomination is not meant to resolve inflation, therefore this reason simply does not prove what he is trying to say.

JayP is mistaken here. Google "redenomination" and look at the Wikipedia article. There you will see that out of some 50 redenominations posted all but 7 of them were for severe inflation or hyperinflation. This situation does NOT exist in Iraq. While there is inflation, this is not the primary reason for changing the value of the dinar, according to both Shabibi and Al-Zubaidi, who have had a plan for over 5 years.

2. Any type of currency devaluation (LOP) is considered a failure of monetary policy. Dr. Shabibi has not failed.

As stated in response to #1, a redenomination does not mean a devaluation. This is a statement that is simply NOT true. In fact, once a redenomination has occurred, the consolidated value of the Dinar could very well be just under, equal to, or over the dollar. For example, if a Dinar is currently .00086:1, then a 25K note is worth about 21.5 USD, and then in a case of a redenomination, if they were to move the decimal over 3 places, it would apply to all things the same, prices, rates, accounts, etc, therefore the new rate can potentially be .86, therefore after the decimal is moved over 3 places, 25 new dinars, would still be worth 21.5 USD. This shows NO devaluation has occurred, and the strength of the new currency has not changed once the zeros are deleted, just as they have stated in those articles we read.

In a redenomination, it would not mean Shabibi has failed, only succeeded in his plans that he has been saying he wanted to do all along. It is the govt right now that does not want him to follow through on his plans to redenominate at this point for reasons they gave of fears of corruption or counterfeiting in the process.

See the following link:

http://www.rferl.org/content/Iraq_Pl...n/1950504.html

”Saleh said by the end of 2010 the new banknotes will be fully introduced while the old banknotes will be gradually removed from circulation.”

Now, if the old banknotes will be gradually removed from circulation, rather than "lopped" then Saleh's statement makes sense. It does NOT make sense if there is a lop, because the "new banknotes" would be worthless while the "old banknotes" remain in circulation. The only way in which Shabibi's plan can be considered a success is with a raise in the value of the dinar.

3. Lesser value notes in circulation such as 50, 250, 500. Devaluing the larger 3 zero notes would make them worth less than these lesser notes.

This is an interesting one, one that had me thinking when Kap started with this theory almost a year ago. Unfortunately, this holds no water, as in a redenomination, they do not just redenominate some notes, and not others. When they talk about the 3 zeros, what this actually means is the movement of the decimal point over 3 places. This would apply to all notes, accounts, prices alike. Please look up the terminology for a Homogenous function. You will see the definition of this there. You will also find that this is a term that is used in these 3 zero articles explaining the process as well. Please see the link below and you will see where it uses this term in the explanation of the process:

http://iraqdinar.us/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=28096

I followed this link and found this statement in the article: "Under such circumstances, the deterioration of the value of the currency increased the coin most of the 25 dinars to 25,000 dinars, which means that inflation is added, these zeros *. _____________________________ * do not fit categories of existing currency with the current economic situation and the next. For example, and before the outbreak of the Iran-Iraq war was category of 25 dinars equivalent to $ 75 purchasing power of the time or the equivalent in the present 300 thousand dinars."

This clearly states that before the Iran-Iraq war the dinar was worth $3 per dinar. Saleh is indicating that the plan is to return the value to that level, or higher.

Now, here is a definition of Homogenous:

1: of the same or a similar kind or nature

2: of uniform structure or composition throughout homogeneous neighborhood>

3: having the property that if each variable is replaced by a constant times that variable the constant can be factored out : having each term of the same degree if all variables are considered homogeneous equation>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homogeneous

Here is another good explanation:

http://www.economics.utoronto.ca/osborne/MathTutorial/HOMF.HTM

4. Iraq wants the dinar to be an international reserve currency. Cannot devalue the notes in reserve (25,000), circulate them as payment, or traded amongst countries.

First, in this response, please see my response to #2. If the CBI were to redenominate, that does NOT mean a devaluation. That is 2 different things, but something those that want to distort the facts do not want you to realize.

2nd, the rate does not determine tradeability. Last I checked, the Vietnam Dong at 21,000:1 is as good as any other currency, just takes a whole lot more Dong to do business with it. So I have to say, this reason, holds as much value as the Dinar or the Dong does right now!

Your point remains valid irrespective of what JayP just wrote. The simple fact is that Maliki and Shabibi are on record stating that the IQD will become the strongest currency in the Middle East. This can only happen if the VALUE of the IQD is the strongest in the Middle East. There is no other meaning for the term "strongest" that I am aware of.

5. Iraq holds arguable the second largest oil reserves and is mineral rich. They are too wealthy to not honor the value stated on the notes.

Are they wealthy with the Oil reserves, and mineral rich, sure, I will give him a nod on this one as well, but that does not mean that they would not redenominate. The determination to redenominate is not based on Oil reserves, and even if so, having the oil, and getting the oil out of the ground is 2 different things. In either case though, I disagree that there is so much Oil that they can just revalue 1000x the amount or more than they are at right now, not without reducing the money supply first, and this was even stated by the CBI themselves.

JayP just stepped on his own foot here with the statement "not without reducing the money supply first". In fact this is just what Shabibi has been doing by drawing down the money supply from 25 trillion dinars to 25 billion dinars. He is on record that this is his plan since December of 2009. I can find the quote if necessary. With nearly $75 billion in reserves, plus the pile of Saddam's gold found in Kurdistan, plus the return of bank funds around the world, as well as other things like their ships, Iraq will have enough wealth in CASH to afford 100% coverage of its currency at $3.00 per dinar. Add to that the oil reserves, whether out of the ground or not, and Iraq can definitely afford a 1000x increase in the value of the dinar.

6. Iraq has stated..They want the “strongest currency in the Middle East” Any such type of LOP would be a devaluation and therefore not considered strong.

This again goes back to #2. A redenomination is NOT a devaluation. Prove that they are the same thing, and then this is something to consider, until then, I think that we should be a little more realistic.

This kind of answer is what is called "obfuscation". Instead of answering the question he comes up with a statement that is not related to he question. Your point is well made, namely that Iraq is on record to have the strongest currency in the Middle East. Whether a redenomination is a devaluation or not isn't relevant. Why? Because a redenomination will NOT make the dinar the strongest currency. This is the question he failed to answer. You do not have to prove that redeominating is the same as devaluing, only that it won't make the currency strong.

7. US holds dinar as a result if funding the CBI initial reserves. This dinar will eventually payoff the war debt.

All I can say about this, is show the proof. I will be willing to entertain this idea, if someone, anyone can show any shred of evidence of this to be true.

Let me provide the link below:

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Documents/mfh.txt

This is from the US Treasury website showing the US Foreign Reserves. You will see that it does not indicate anywhere in here that is shows IQD holdings. There is a group called Oil Exporters. If you notice the 3/ next to the name that refers to the #3 at the bottom and it reads:

“3/ Oil exporters include Ecuador, Venezuela, Indonesia, Bahrain, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar,

Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Algeria, Gabon, Libya, and Nigeria.”

This means that the amount shown in the row for Oil Exporter nations consist of the combined holdings of all of those nations currency. So unless proof can be given that we hold as much Dinar as some would like to say, this is speculation at the very best, and nothing more. Using this as a basis as to why they would not redenominate would simply be wrong, and I hardly think that a guess at something should ever be used as proof of something, especially when the proof itself is not verifiable. I challenge everyone to ask Kap this question, and I would be willing to bet you would get banned for even asking the question. I know, because I did.. lol!!

The other point I would like to make on this is that, even if we did hold Dinar, if they were to redenominate, as I stated in prior responses, this would not be a devaluation, therefore it would not mean any loss for the US reserves, but it would also mean that it would not be paying for any wars, and for those that may have heard of the wars will pay for themselves rumors, this is not true, and Bush never said those words. I would challenge anyone to provide proof of the quote if they do believe this. In fact, I can provide you with precisely where I believe that rumor came from. It was actually a statement made by Wolfowitz in 2003 talking about Iraq using Oil to pay for their own reconstruction, and I believe some guru out there twisted this quote to what the rumor has become today, like a tall tale over the years. Here is the quote:

Wolfowitz: "We're dealing with a country that could really finance its own reconstruction." As Think Progress noted, then-Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz testified before Congress on March 27, 2003, that "the oil revenues of that country [iraq] could bring between 50 and 100 billion dollars over the course of the next two or three years. Now, there are a lot of claims on that money, but that's --- we're not dealing with Afghanistan that's a permanent ward of the international community. We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction and relatively soon."

I agree that no one has yet found Bush's supposed statement that Iraq would pay for the war. I looked for it myself at one time and found Wolfowitz's statement quoted above. Therefore we should not base our argument on this point (Bush's supposed statement). However, and this is important, your statement didn't mention Bush! DUH! So, this is the point and it is well made: even if the US has NO dinars in reserve at this point (which I seriously doubt), when we all cash in they will be FAT with dinars at the UST. Therefore our reserve position will be enhanced by the RV'd dinar, and that will pay for the war.

8. One of the authors of the currency exchange plan - Assistant Professor Dr. Fadel states in his documentation, “We must emphasize the extremely important issue is that if you remove three zeroes from the currency should not affect the actual value thereof to be trading in the old currency…

Yes this was said, but please note what I stated in response to #2, in a redenomination, there is no affect on the purchase power, so I believe this to be accurate. In other words a 25K note worth .00086, and a 25 dinar note worth .86, they BOTH equal 21.5 USD, so a redenomination does NOT affect the actual value of their wealth, so this is no proof at all that they will not redenominate.

I would also like to mention a point about this author and what was said in this plan that Kap posted and spoke about:

2 - experiences of other countries: Moved from other countries suffered hyperinflation a similar course, particularly in Russia in the nineties of the last century. Turkey has also withdrawn (6) zeros from its currency without prejudice to the true value. Providing Treasury Secretary Turkish then Ali Babacan, Minister of Foreign Affairs the current bill to get rid of zeros six in the Turkish lira and by 2005, and resulted in inflation witnessed in Turkey that the price of one euro to one million and 7,820,333 Turkish liras,and Turkey has witnessed discussions on the adoption of such a wage-earners in the removal of six zeroes from the currency. And seem to rein in high inflation in Turkey is not only through the removal of zeros six of the Turkish currency for the first time succeeded the Turkish government in reducing the rate of inflation to the target set for the current year and of 19.3% and although this rate is high compared to other countries and the bill was introduced to the Prime Minister's Office to the application and began the application where it began trading currencies for a specified period after which the old currency was withdrawn and replaced the new currency.

http://dinaralert.webs.com/apps/forums/topics/show/6612064-assistant-professor-dr-fadel-punitive-a-special-article-economic-forum-uae-

So as you can see, even in this plan that Kap talked about, he failed to mention this part where they even talk about a redenomination, and mention Turkey and what they did.

I will also add from this post:

3 - the possible effects of this procedure The phenomenon of rising prices in the world is caused mainly by the decline in currency values ​​and thus lower the purchasing value. And your conception that the best remedy for these reflections on the psychology of the Iraqi individual and the market is in the drafting of a new Iraqi currency prices are back with the logical relationship between the cost of the real item and the selling price based on the market. The write-off three zeros from the Iraqi currency is tantamount to re-price their nature and reduce the size of the introduction of inflation growing, and perhaps the best example of the Turkish experience.The written off after six zeros to become with him a million pounds and the only one and the same purchasing power for the previous million, it became possible to purchase Blairh one was in the past one million pounds.

The abolition of the zeros from the currency, which inevitably suffer from inflation will limit the negative effects of the current world of hyperbole in the prices of goods and services and will return for the currency balance and weight.

That such a decision, if adopted by the Iraqi government, he would not return to the Iraqi currency value based upon, but will reflect as well as the flexibility of the economy and his movement in the right direction for that from our analysts economists to look seriously for this phenomenon by holding seminars and conferences to form through which the views of access to rein in inflation and a rise in prices and the return of the Iraqi currency to the value of real and normal.

Please read this for yourselves, and you will see what this plan is really sayng.

The omission of three zeroes of the Iraqi currency to achieve the following objectives: 1 - to fight inflation, 2 - support the banking system

3 - help to know the size of the wealth distribution and how 4 - banking system's ability to control liquidity, 5 - create financial surpluses are used in financing 6 - to increase awareness of the banking system.

Unfortunately, this contradicts Kaps own theory.

Please note the following quote from the article above (2 paragraphs up): "the return of the Iraqi currency to the value of real and normal. " Clearly this statement indicates that the current value is not "real" and not "normal". The question, then, is this: "What is real and normal?" The answer comes from the Ministry of Finance itself:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=ar&tl=en&u=http://www.aknews.com/ar/aknews/2/112476&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1

Here is the quote: "It is worth mentioning that the Central Bank of Iraq said in a statement issued on February 6 this year, announced a plan to delete the zeros of the Iraqi currency before the end of the year 2010, and has completed 50% of the preparations for the work according to this strategy. ومن المؤمل ان ينتهي العمل بهذه السياسية المالية نهاية العام الحالي. It is hoped to be completed this fiscal policy later this year. "

Now, notice that the process of deleting the three zeros BEGAN in February of 2010. JayP says that the term "delete the 3 zeros" means moving the decimal point. So, have they been moving the decimal point since February of 2010? Of course not! And the process was 50% completed at the end of 2010. So does that mean that they've moved the decimal 1.5 places thus far? Of course not!

This statement ALONE is enough to prove that "remove the three zeros" has to do with reducing the money supply by removing the NOTES with 3 zeros, and has NOTHING to do with moving a decimal point.

”9. In 2003 when the NID was introduced at it’s initial rate, the previous currency was in essence devalued taking all wealth from the country to prevent funding of terrorism. Raising the currencies value will in essence, return that wealth now that the GOI is stable and economic conditions have improved.

I am sorry, but this one really is laughable. The fact of the matter, is that this one, is absolutely untrue and inaccurate. In fact, let me provide some proof that I have that proves this one to be untrue. Please see the below link:

http://treasury.un.org/operationalrates/Details.aspx?code=IQD&currency=Iraqi+Dinar&country=Iraq

This goes back to Dec 2001. Please see the rate as of Dec 2001: 2023:1 .. yep, that is Dec 2001, well before the NID was introduced, or before we even ever invaded Iraq. The fact and reality is that the currency was being devalued years prior to the NID. In fact, the rate right now is almost twice as high as it was back then PRIOR to the new notes being changed. This was due to inflation, and why the amount of dinars that were being printed were printed. So it would be very wrong to use this as any proof that they would not redenominate, and in fact, only further provide proof that they need to reduce the money supply by redenominating.

Sorry, but he is incorrect here as well. The rate of the IQD in Dec of 2001 was not a real rate at all. It was an artificial rate created by the Saddam regime, which also at one point had created a rate of $3.50 (and which also wasn't real). Therefore, he cannot use these numbers to make his argument. The simple fact is that the UN devalued the currency to a REAL number when they entered the country. It has grown from roughly 4000:1 to the current 1170:1 during the last 7 years. Now they are ready to remove the large notes and take it back to the early 1980s value of $3.50, or more.

10. The CBI has stated “both currencies will co-exist” and the process will not change the “monetary value” of the dinar.

This is entirely possible depending on the exchange process. Romania for example did the same thing, and Iraq even used Romania as one of the examples or models to their plans. There was a time, for about 18 months, where during the exchange period people would be able to use either the old or the new currency for a period of time, and prices were adjusted based on if they paid with the old or new currency, moving the decimal over on the price. Please see the link below that shows an example of a price tag in Romania based on the ROL (old currency) or the RON (new currency).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Romania_revalue_tag.jpg

The CBI themselves used Romania as an example of what they intend to do. NO, THEY DID NOT!

If the intent here is to prove that a redenomination cannot happen, then unfortunately, I think that there will need to be a better attempt at it than this, and a bit more solid proof than this that is for sure.

I do believe that maybe they can just revalue without needing to redenominate, and that is what I hope for in this as everyone else, I am in this to gain just like everyone. While I do hope for the very best though, I also need to be honest with myself, and everyone else. I think giving hope is a wonderful thing, but distorting the facts, or the truths to give hope is not the way to go about it though.

Kap's intentions may be sincere, and I truly hope that is the case, but I think that in order to be fair, and to be honest with his members, he should either show some real proof that a redenomination cannot happen, proof much stronger than this, or openly admit that it really is a very strong possibility that we all should keep under consideration, and think about.

Both currencies (large and small notes) can co-exist with a revaluation. However, with a redenomination that is not possible unless the value of the 3 zero notes is reduced, which Iraq is on records stating will NOT happen. If you redenominate then a 50 dinar note would be worthless. If you revalue, then a 50 dinar note will be worth $150 and a 25,000 dinar note will be worth $75,000, which means that the"monetary value" will not change. They will remain at parity to each other (in the same proportion) except revalued. This would NOT be the case in a redenomination.

1. Iraq did suffer from inflation. In fact, in 1999, their inflation was nearly 135%, and I would consider that a serious inflation problem. Inflation gradually went down, until they finally were able to get it under control around 2007, and maintained it since. Once inflation was brought under control, then they began discussing plans to redenominate their currency. So the reality is, that this situation did apply in Iraq as it did the other nations that redenominated.

2. In this response, I want to clarify, I never said the word LOP, I said they want to redenominate. Now, in your response to my response for #2, enorrste provides the following link:

http://www.rferl.org/content/Iraq_Planning_Currency_Redenomination/1950504.html

Let's take a look at the title of the article:

"Iraq Planning Currency Redenomination" .. so, yes, this very article is specifically about a redenomination, just as I stated. The following 1st 2 paragraphs:

BAGHDAD -- The Iraqi Central Bank is planning to redenominate the national currency in an effort to ease transactions and allow people to carry less paper money, RFE/RL's Radio Free Iraq (RFI) reports.

Mudhhir Muhammad Salih, a member of a Central Bank advisory panel, told RFI that a plan has been made to remove three zeros from the currency and phase out the current banknotes late this year.

So, this article actually supports my point that the definition of the 3 zero articles is a redenomination, and the very article that you provided even supports just that. In a redenomination, there would be a gradual removed as they are exchanged over an 18 month period of time, so that would happen gradually.

3.The response here does not make any sense, and is clearly taking the paragraph he posted out of context. The fact of the matter, regardless if they revalue to get to 3, or if they redenominate and revalue to get to that, it does not prove that this means that they plan to revalue vs redenominate.

4. Enorrste is making a distinction that Maliki and Shabibi is saying that Iraq will have the strongest currency in the middle east to mean the highest value in the middle east, but if you look at the articles where it shows that being said, we have even seen where they stated they HAVE the strongest currency in the middle east, and the fact is, we know they do not have the highest currency value in the middle east. What they mean by the strongest in the middle east is that they have a currency that is backed 100% by their reserves, not 80%,50%, 20%, etc, but fully backed 100%, which is why they needed to get the reserves to the 60B that they are at now. If you look at their total money supply, you will find that the value, is within that 60B. This is what makes a currency "strong", so this is why they can say that they HAVE the strongest currency in the middle east, because they do!

5. I did not step on my own foot in this one as Enorrste states in my opinion. All I can say on this one, is that you even stated that this is what Shabibi has been doing by drawing in the notes to get from 25T to 25B dinars. The fact of the matter, is if you removed every single note with 3 zeros on it, you will have no more than 72 million dinars in total circulation left. This is not even a fraction of the 25B you are stating they need to reduce it to. If they redenominated though, then dropping three zeros from 25 trillion would make it 25 billion. The fact of the matter is that your math does not work out here, while what I have stated matches exactly the numbers that they say they want to get to.

Please see the link below:

http://cbi.iq/documents/Annual_2010f.pdf

This will show you the exact numbers of the currency issued for each denomination as of 12/31/2010 in their annual bulletin. Based on your theory here, if you define this as removing the notes with 3 zeros from circulation, that will only leave you with the following notes in circulation (in millions):

55,572 - 500 Dinar Notes (55,572 million x 500 = 27,786,000)

174,752 - 250 dinar notes (174,752 million x 250 = 43,688,000)

10,003 - 50 dinar notes (10,003 million x 50 = 500,150)

So if we do the math, based on your theory, if they removed the 3 zero notes that were issued based on your definition, they are left with only 71,974,150 dinars left issued. This is a far stretch from the 25B that you even stated they said they need to get to. If they have 25T, and you redenominate though, that leaves you with 25 billion, just as they stated. Unfortunately, I do not think I stepped on my own feet here in this one, and I provided the proof to support that at least

6. You stated I did not answer this, but that is inaccurate, as the original statement was that any such lop would be a devaluation. The fact is, it would not be a devaluation, therefore this statement is false just based on that. Secondly, the redenomination would not be intended to make it the strongest currency in the region, and in fact, at the current rate, they have even stated that they have the strongest currency now. I explained that in number 4 above as well what htey mean by when they say strong.

7. This response by enorrste did not make much sense. They will be FAT with dinar... hmmmm... ok, so even if that was the case, and the UST gets all that dinar from us cashing in, it is not like they profited in it from the supposed RV. In fact, they would have had to pay for those dinars at the price that our banks dealer's etc, paid us for them, so essentially, this does not make sense, because if that were the case, then they could just pay for the war with that money that they would pay for the dinar with post rv

8. Enorrste's response is saying that he read where they stated the return of the iraqi currency to the real and normal. Well, sure, even if that is the case, they can change the rate to whatever that real and normal is, regardless if they get there by way of straight up rv, or a redenomination and rv, so this does not prove anything either. In the following response, and the CBI stating that they have completed 50% of the preperations, that is 50% of the preperations, but nowhere does it read that they already removed notes from circulation. They are talking about the plans, and and the analysis of the impact of changes, etc. You have not proven that they have actually removed anything. In fact, once again, I point you to the chart on page 18 of the annual bulletin for year ending 12/31/2010. There is nothing there that supports this to mean that they are drawing any notes in.

9. I am not sure how you can say that the rate that is published in the UN Operational Rates of Exchange is not a "real" rate, but ok, we will just have to agree to disagree then. The fact is though, this is not even what was stated in the original post. This is what was said:

In 2003 when the NID was introduced at it’s initial rate, the previous currency was in essence devalued taking all wealth from the country to prevent funding of terrorism. Raising the currencies value will in essence, return that wealth now that the GOI is stable and economic conditions have improved.

I was correct in stating that the rate was NOT devalued in 2003, and this was NOT done to prevent funding to terrorism. In fact, since that time, the rate has INCREASED in value, so this just not a correct statement no matter how you try to defend that it was a correct statement, and that was the point I was making.

10. I responded to this in my previous post.

[Adam Montana]

Closing thread, stop the petty bickering. Also stop mentioning other dinar sites. You are free to go to other sites, but you're not allowed to drag their drama onto this site.

That goes for everyone.

Have a nice day.