Holidays ruined and tradition being lost..

[Francie26]

I have an idea. I admit it wasn't mine originally, but I am going to do this in a week or two, when I feel better, and I think it can be adapted to any place that does a "bah humbug" on Christmas. I'm going in several stores and if they try to get people to do their Christmas shopping there without trees, santas, christmas music playing, or other items of Christmas, I am going to ask a salesperson to call a manager. When he/she gets there, I intend to be standing near several other shoppers, and I will ask why those items are missing. I will do this in a voice just loud enough to be head by as many others as possible, without yetlling. When I get his/her answer, I intend to reply, "I'm doing my Christmas shopping today. I won't spend my Christmas money in a store that insists on being so "correct:" that they refuse to allow my holiday in their doors." and then I will walk out.

You could set up where they have insisted on putting you, and then walk up and down their mall or in front of their store with signs directing other customers where you are located, and you can even say on your sign that mall moved you because they were afraid of offending Islamists by having your site where it used to be. The worst thing they can do is to ask you to leave again, and as long as you do what they ask, you can then take it to another level, and just go outside the mall doorways and do your marching there. If they have already given you permission to be there, and if you have that in writing, then they may be legally bound to follow through because it may legally "be too late for you to make other arrangements."

A local attorney might do this pro bono for your organization as a deductable Christmas gift. As I see it, the Occupy Our Cities and Stores group is trying to do something far less kind or worthy, so you may be entitiled to take this to a new level as well. I would sure try. What harm can it do? But it might change some minds.

[brbrlocke]

And I am suppose to not be offended by being hated for celebrating Christmas and loving Christ.....I don't think so...

[Francie26]

Trooper....was this reported in the local media? If you could send us the link, that would be great.

On a quick review of your postings, especially your topics, it shows a vast majority are anti-Government and specifically anti-Obama. That's not necessarily rare on this site, but it does raise an eyebrow on possible motivation why this would be posted. Seems to me, someone like yourself would be the first one to bring it to the local press and you would actually relish in bring it to national attention. Even now you could call up Fox News and remain anoynmous.

So...can I pls ask for evidence...let's just pretend I'm from Missouri..the Show me State.

Personally, I would think that this could quickly be resolved by the parties willing to celebrate all religious holidays...

I'm from Missouri. I know Missourians. Tiffiny, you are NOT a Missourian!! Even if you live here, which I pray you don't, you are not one of us!! Period!! So don't even pretend to use our "Show Me" motto.

[desimo]

If these people keep pushing us they might receive an education they do not expect. If you come to America then you accept our cultures and customs. If you do not like them, stay where you are and don't come here.

[Francie26]

I have an idea. I admit it wasn't mine originally, but I am going to do this in a week or two, when I feel better, and I think it can be adapted to any place that does a "bah humbug" on Christmas. I'm going in several stores and if they try to get people to do their Christmas shopping there without trees, santas, christmas music playing, or other items of Christmas, I am going to ask a salesperson to call a manager. When he/she gets there, I intend to be standing near several other shoppers, and I will ask why those items are missing. I will do this in a voice just loud enough to be heard by as many others as possible, but without yetlling. When I get his/her answer, I intend to reply, "I'm doing my Christmas shopping today. I won't spend my Christmas money in a store that insists on being so "correct:" that they refuse to allow "my holiday traditions and music in their store." and then I will walk out.

You could set up where they have insisted on putting you, and then walk up and down their mall or in front of their store with signs directing other customers where you are located, and you can even say on your sign that mall moved you because they were afraid of offending Islamists by having your site where it used to be. The worst thing they can do is to ask you to leave again, and as long as you do what they ask, you can then take it to another level, and just go outside the mall doorways and do your marching there. If they have already given you permission to be there, and if you have that in writing, then they may be legally bound to follow through because it may legally "be too late for you to make other arrangements."

A local attorney might do this pro bono for your organization as a deductable Christmas gift. As I see it, the Occupy Our Cities and Stores group is trying to do something far less kind or worthy, so you may be entitiled to take this to a new level as well. I would sure try. What harm can it do? But it might change some minds.

[Francie26]

I have an idea. I admit it wasn't mine originally, but I am going to do this in a week or two, when I feel better, and I think it can be adapted to any place that does a "bah humbug" on Christmas. I'm going in several stores and if they try to get people to do their Christmas shopping there without trees, santas, christmas music playing, or other items of Christmas, I am going to ask a salesperson to call a manager. When he/she gets there, I intend to be standing near several other shoppers, and I will ask why those items are missing. I will do this in a voice just loud enough to be head by as many others as possible, without yelling. When I get his/her answer, I intend to reply, "I'm doing my Christmas shopping today. I won't spend my Christmas money in a store that insists on being so "correct:" that they refuse to allow my holiday in their doors." and then I will walk out.

You could set up where they have insisted on putting you, and then walk up and down their mall or in front of their store with signs directing other customers where you are located, and you can even say on your sign that mall moved you because they were afraid of offending Islamists by having your site where it used to be. The worst thing they can do is to ask you to leave again, and as long as you do what they ask, you can then take it to another level, and just go outside the mall doorways and do your marching there. If they have already given you permission to be there, and if you have that in writing, then they may be legally bound to follow through because it may legally "be too late for you to make other arrangements."

A local attorney might do this pro bono for your organization as a deductable Christmas gift. As I see it, the Occupy Our Cities and Stores group is trying to do something far less kind or worthy, so you may be entitiled to take this to a new level as well. I would sure try. What harm can it do? But it might change some minds.

Oops. I'm sorry, trooper. This is just plain wrong. But I understand your concern about not wanting to create a problem for the charity you help, even if you have to manage on less money. It isn't right. But it isn't alone in not being right, and one day soon, we will turn all this around so we are back to being our real America!!

[BradyBear]

WE Christians do not have to sit down in the back of the bus and be quite!

There are many legal organizations across the country who will fight for us,

fairly easy to find 0nline.

WE are still the quite majority, but why? WE have as many rights to stand up for our Beliefs as the Others and should not allow them to be stomped on any more than WE would on their rights.

The only reason they get away it, Atheist and other Religions is because they speak out and seek legal representation; WE must take our stand!

Christian does not mean floor mat!

[Francie26]

I'm from Missouri. I know Missourians. Tiffiny, you are NOT a Missourian!! Even if you live here, which I pray you don't, you are not one of us!! Period!! So don't even pretend to use our "Show Me" motto.

And by the way, I do not respect your so-called "right" to show tremendous disrespect to one of my religious icons, a woman in history whom I believe was the Mother of God, and is therefore, Holy. You have shown tremendous disrespect to all of us who share this belief. You owe every one of us a sincere apology. You would not tolerate this high level of disrespect from anyone regarding what you believe, so why would you think it's OK for you to malign our beliefs?

[BrokeNoMore]

Yes, it's always easy to make up something to prove your point.........

Wow. That's all I can say. I just love the way you come in, pretend to be all nice while you stir the pot and twist things around.

Twisting things and accusing people of making stuff up is the easy part. You're an expert.

[bamagirl]

Wow. That's all I can say.

Yeah, that one crossed the line a bit...

[BrokeNoMore]

Yeah, that one crossed the line a bit...

After I thought about it, I realized I had a bit more to say!

[Luigi1]

We had a similar incident in our workplace two years ago. Christmas party cancelled. No office gift exchanging. No more decorations allowed. No nothing. All it took was one person to be offended.

Even Obama cancelled the WH Christmas so not to offend a few people. Never mind offending the nation.

[BrokeNoMore]

I think that acts that are offensive are part of the liberal mentality. Some people go around looking for ways to be offensive (what exactly was Tiffany23's motive for choosing the Immaculate Conception of Christ as an example to make fun of?).

We're supposed to be sensitive and cater to every whim of offense for carrying on our traditions that have been alive and healthy in our communities for more than a hundred years, while putting up with constant slaps in the face.

What a double standard.

[Tiffany23]

Ok, let's see if I get this straight. I'm accused of stirring the pot. Hmmm…a person puts up a post which borders on a hate crime*(see below)...stereotyping and repeating items that he KNOWS will get this Conservative Christian Crowd up in arms against Muslims...and when I simply ask for evidence...it is I that gets accused of string the pot? Hmmm...I'm sure there is some logic in there but unfortunately my "sheltered' mind can't quiet grasp it. By the way, I've been accurse of some things in my day, but sheltered isn't one of them.

Next, I get the if you don't love America, then leave it. Ok, I think you mean, if I don't agree with the majority, then leave it. Seems there was once a man that made a speech and in that speech he said the Truth shall set us free. Truth is not what the majority agrees that it is. If that WAS the way of America, then we would still have black people doing our house chores.

Then there is the speech about the forefathers of America spoke English and were Christians...so you should be too. Well, that's not true. America was settled by the Native American hundreds of years before the English settlers arrived. Believe me, they didn’t speak English and their “Great Spirit” was much different than Christ. He loved his people, but he also loved the land. The real first American were force to give up their languages and force to live on reservations by guess who? Come on...it's an easy answer...the MAJORITY...and that majority just happen to be White Christians.

And OBTW those same English settlers LEFT England due to Religious prosecution.

Then we have the good ole melting pot, which..I agree there is some validity to that…that the more we get to know each other, the more we understand and can relate. But, keep in mind, all theose nationalities that were listed like Irish, Polish, Chinese…it usually took them 2 generations to fully integrate with the American lifestyle. In all the major cities, and many of the smaller towns, you had the different ethic areas such as little Italy, China town etc. The point is, it takes a while for these different nationality to learn to accept their new ways.

As far as Missouri, got me there….you win on that one!

*in crime and law, hate crimes (also known as bias-motivated crimes) occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her perceived membership in a certain social group, usually defined by racial group, religion, sexual orientation, disability, class, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, social status or political affiliation.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crime

[umbertino]

This is not right - This has got to end.

I agree. Not only it's not right.. It just sounds plainly absurd and besides.. It's really masochistic of them to do so, creating tensions, rage etc....It makes zero sense...It's gong to enrage even the most well-disposed people.

And why should just one person have the power to have the tree removed anyway? I sincerely would like to understand this.

I'm a very pacific anti-racist and very much believing in integration kind of Person....I experienced something similar here in Italy once..

I was on the line with my at the time GF, then wife ( from Cuba) who had just arrived here in Italy and we were waiting for the permit visa office to open and there were lots of folks waiting and it was also damn cold at 6:00 AM in January staying on the sidewalk....

Most folks were from North Africa ( Morocco and Tunisia mainly)... I was talking with my GF and from behind embracing her cos she was freezing literally ( used to Cuban weather)... Then I started hearing a kind of rumbling...Once.. Then again...There were 2 men standing in line before us....One was looking at us less than benevolently... So I asked ( still with well-mannered tone, I swear) what was the problem, if any....The other man said to me , in italian that his friend was bothered by the fact that I was embracing my GF cos they were in Ramadan and also because right on the curb there was his car parked with wife and daughters and it was the wife who had told her husband to call us on this....

Now his friend-translator was visibly embarrassed in telling me all that ....I looked at him and his intolerant friend ( and wife in the car) and told them..

1) I'm an Italian Citizen and this is my Country.

2) Italy is not a Muslim Country and I am not ( nor is my GF) a Muslim

3) I have always respected foreign Workers..I'm all pro giving them respect and everything.. So he was doing a terrible job in pushing me to the intolerant and racist side. I had nothing against Arabs until that very moment ( btw..I still do not have anything against them.. it's just an individual matter case by case...) That was just plain STUPID of them .....

4) Told them to leave us alone and to use their brains... You can't claim to commnd in my house...

I then embraced my GF even more and we kissed long and intensely a few times...

Edited November 26, 2011 by umbertino

[David68]

For what it's worth, I live in the UK and it;s happening here too.

If I owned the store where the Christmas tree was and a worker objected I would call all the staff together and inform them that someone has objected to the Christmas tree being there.

I would then inform them that it would be staying there and if this person persisted and pushed the complaint further the store would close and all staff would be laid off until after Christmas.

I wonder if the staff wold talk to this person and inform him of his rights to leave?

[bamagirl]

Good for you Umbertino!!

[Midx1]

I think that acts that are offensive are part of the liberal mentality. Some people go around looking for ways to be offensive (what exactly was Tiffany23's motive for choosing the Immaculate Conception of Christ as an example to make fun of?).

We're supposed to be sensitive and cater to every whim of offense for carrying on our traditions that have been alive and healthy in our communities for more than a hundred years, while putting up with constant slaps in the face.

What a double standard.

Kind of a slap in the face for all Americans and what the founding fathers really wanted to prevent.

Big government,,freedom of religion etc.

I have been abroad for a few years ,,my return to the USA has really shocked me, not the same place like before.

Where does the government come up with this madness,,this is the USA we are a Christian Nation founded on christian values.

I was in Jakarta Indonesia about 5 years ago during Christmas,,now thats the biggest Muslim country in the world.

All the malls were decorated with lights and trees.

So why here in the USA do we think that we have to respect hurting other religious values by our decorations,trees and lights?

This is America in case anyone has forgot ,,not some 3rd world country like the current presidents homeland.

I did not vote for him,,but I will smile at the fact that i told you so.

Thank God that we are only less than one year away from elections and can stop this ludicrous administration before we become 3rd world ones.

[trooper]

Tiff for as smart as you think are about history... I would seriously see if i could get a refund.. You are always touting the slaves from the civil war era.. Let me give a lesson.. The African kings sold their own to the dutch.. So on and so forth.. If I'm not mistaken 99% percent of the servants prior to that were white.. The English or Columbus weren't the first here... The Vikings were first in the 1300's followed by the Knights Templar which made it to Minnesota late 1300's... If you want to get real technical the Egyption were here first. Google it.. Egyption in Arizona.. The Native Americans migrated across the Bering sea just like we migrated across the Atlantic.. Whats the difference, we both were following food and land explorations..

Your the type that is looking for any cause to fight for as long as you can get attention and a shock value out of.. Which to me doesn't have merit cause that tells me you need a label to get by in life... So worried about injustices of the past 1000 years up to 1960's your not realizing you along with the rest of us are becoming the minority..

Edited November 26, 2011 by trooper

[CrappieShark]

Silence is the biggest crime against humanity. I have a real problem with Obama cancelling Christmas for the WH in the name of not being offensive. His particular brand of religion has him bowing before a Arab King even though he is the president of the USA. He does not have to have Christmas but to cancel Christmas for the White House means nobody else has a voice. This is not a totalatarian type govt nor is it despotic. You stay home and let others enjoy the rights all Americans are supposed to enjoy. If you are of a different religious persuasion than me then practice your religion but do not interfere with mine. Why am I supposed to allow any person to dictate away my inalienable right to practice my religion and freedom of speech just because they have a different opinion. I do not know or care how they promote what they believe but when they sell flowers on street corners or stop at different times to put out prayer rugs I respectfully allow them the right of every American to practice their religion. If you want to count rosaries or whatever as long as you are not being violent celebrate your particular brand of religion. We have all types here and I only feel as though there is one way to please one true God and that is to be obedient to Him and His word. I do not however go to a mosque and scream for muslims to convert to Christianity nor do I agree with them. I allow them their American given right to worship by their own choice. So many religious people are intolerant and violent and I do not care if they are offended at me if I worship Jesus. I will worship God anywhere and in any way I want. If I went to a third world Muslim country and worshipped they would be very violent towards me. I refuse to allow them to be violent towards me in my own country. I will worship my God whether they like it or not. You give up your freedoms and you never get them back. You have to take them back. These people are getting key spots in our governements state and fed and are destroying the very reason our country was formed to begin with. We all have a family member that at one time or another settled here. They were escaping taxation and religious opression and tyrants and Kings and laws that kept them from ever being able to rise above debt. Sound familiar? You bet it does. We better elect some ever more Americans in all of our elections and quit feeling sorry for these folks that are Anti-American in their beliefs. Quit electing these folks and demand for more choices if we are not given men and women that are American through and through. We can do that you know. It is still a govt of the people for the people and by the people or are we goiving that up too. The Anti-American political figures have been the ones taking away rights and our basic foundations get them out of govt. To say I can pray or be in obeiscence to my belief but you cannot pray to ypur belief is ANTI American. To take the Pledge of Allegience and the Ten Commandments and IN GOD WE TRUST away from the majority is ridiculous and has to end. We allow them their preference LEAVE MINE ALONE. This is my country and I will fight for it lay down my life for it and it is being taken away from us in an arena we need to put a stop to and that is the law passing arena that is choking the freedom out of our country. If we enforced every law that has been passed in the last ten years you would be afraid to go outside. Quit shutting your eyes ears and mouths or we will be the socialist country of the North American continent and revolution will be springing up everywhere with all kinds of countries wanting their piece of the North American Continent. We are a divided nation as it is. The bad part is the loss of freedom because of the division. Republicans, Democrats, Independents, left, right, middle ground, and all becoming more agressive and passing more laws. It has to stop.

[uncirculd]

Trooper did not put this up to get a rise out of Christians. He put it up because once again in this politically correct society, Good is being pushed off as EVIL.

The US has been infiltrated by Christian haters. No other religion is hated more than Christians. Ask yourself why???

All these little cry babies that get so offended can go to wambi bambi land and get some self confidence. While they are there they can get some respect. I really don't like that we have to remind people that freedom of religion means for Christians too.

[magawatt]

Generations of Americans died defending your right to express yourself. I'd guess a decent lawyer could build a good case that your right to that freedom has been impinged- not by the Muslim who is free to express his opinion, but by your employer. Freedom of expression should be inclusive not exclusive. So even if you might not appreciate Chanukah, Ramadan or Quanza displays you must respect their freedom of expression- as other must respect yours.

The question of whether the workplace is the proper place for employee sponsored charitable efforts is one for your employer to decide- with the knowledge that his decision will be made known to potential shoppers at the time he as the most to gain- or lose financially.

[Tiffany23]

Your the type that is looking for any cause to fight for as long as you can get attention and a shock value out of.. Which to me doesn't have merit cause that tells me you need a label to get by in life... So worried about injustices of the past 1000 years up to 1960's your not realizing you along with the rest of us are becoming the minority..

"You're (sic) the type"...hmmm...as RR would say...there you go again. Did you see what I said about hate crimes and sterotyping?

Say what??? Ok, African Kings sold their own people to the Dutch. So that makes it right? And last time I checked, the Netherlands are a bit far from America. So you are saying that American's never own slaves? Pls see this on where American slaves came from: http://wysinger.homestead.com/mapofafricadiaspora.html

So why where slaves brought to America? Mostly to tender crops. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_United_States

Prior to coming to America, yes, white indentured serfs were servants to those Europeans who could afford them...what that has to do with this topic beats me.

What does it matter who discovered America, whether it was the Vikings or the Chinese....the fact is that when the European settlers got here...it was Native Americans that they had to deal with...who they slaughtered, imprisoned and took away their native tongue and taught English to their young...hey, kind of sounds like this:

You and I, Trooper, have blood on our hands for those Americans in the past (Indian and Black Salves) that weren’t give equal rights that the Constitution now guarantees. I personally am trying to make amends for this by safe guarding minority rights from people that refuse to give up their preceived rights, because they think a majority rules. Sound familar?

It’s kind of like hear me now or hear me later. Any law that the majority votes in, will be held up to the Constitution to see if it supports the Bill of Rights. If it doesn’t, the SC will kick it out.

[uncirculd]

Wow, am I behind in News. That dictator canceled Christmas??? Hello....where are we???? He had Ramadan at the WH. Sounds very prejudice to me. So, are we a muslim nation then?? He did say we were not a Christian nation. So much for Tradition. There is no values left here, we have been taken over by ideology and haters at the highest levels.

Tiffany

"Any law that the majority votes in, will be held up to the Constitution to see if it supports the Bill of Rights. If it doesn’t, the SC will kick it out"

Really, nahhh, you got money you be president and you appeal to congress if that don't work, executive order. Communism or Dictatorship at it's best. And what right does "o" have to preach democracy around the world. He should practice what he preaches.

Edited November 26, 2011 by uncirculd

[bamagirl]

Tiffany, it sounds like you expect us to pay for the sins of our ancestors...what a sad world if we all spent our whole lives paying retribution for things we personally had no part in. I can't think of a culture one that has a totally spot clean heritage. I have enough to answer for when all is said and done, I refuse to be held responsible for something that happened 50, 100 or 200 yrs ago....