IQD backing

[dontlop]

Saddam did the majority of his printing from 1993 -1995

Here's a chart of Iraqis debt to GDP starting in 1989

https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/general-reports-1/iraq_wmd_2004/images/ch2_anxD_img07.jpg/image.jpg

[dontlop]

value of these stocks. Third, the stock size is defined in economic terms—

reserves are “that part of the reserve base which "(could be )"

economically

extracted or produced at the time of determination”—and, therefore, it is

dependent on the prevalent economic conditions, namely technology and price.

Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/92667-iqd-backing/page-8#ixzz2ipgX0LlX

Notice it says "(could be )"extracted ,,, not "(is extracted)"

Despite all these diffi culties, "(dollar values were assigned )"to the stocks

of the main energy resources (oil, gas, and coal7) and to the stocks of

10 metals and minerals (bauxite, copper, gold, iron ore, lead, nickel,

phosphate rock, silver, tin, and zinc) for all the countries that have

production figures.

http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTEEI/214578-1110886258964/20748034/All.pdf

Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/92667-iqd-backing/page-8#ixzz2iphlnlhp

In Iraq the oil could be extracted at time of determination economically and easily

It seems the reserves that "( could be extracted economically )" were "(assigned dollar values)"

Not can be assigned dollar values

They were assigned dollar values

In determining a country's wealth for the 21st century

According to the world bank article

Dollar values don't have to be assigned ( except )for determining a nations wealth of those commodities that are not yet extracted

The market already has dollar values assigned for oil after its extracted

This site lays it out for determining a nations wealth for the 21st century

http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTEEI/214578-1110886258964/20748034/All.pdf

Edited October 26, 2013 by dontlop

[investorman]

Canuklady.....great advice.  Yours could save a life, the rest of the info may just be helpful.  Thanks

[keepmwlknfny]

Your right dontlop.....im about as ignorant as they come! There is no way that the endless money he was printing off had anything to do with the dinars value. And now that they have no debt they can declare the dinar at whayever they wish. Hell terryk just might be right with his 7 dollar rate.....

[dinarbeleiver]

Your right dontlop.....im about as ignorant as they come! There is no way that the endless money he was printing off had anything to do with the dinars value. And now that they have no debt they can declare the dinar at whayever they wish. Hell terryk just might be right with his 7 dollar rate.....

there you go again with your sarcastic tone. Dontlop provided links to back up what he is saying. You come back with an ignorant tone keepem. I was starting to like you again and you go and let yourself down. If you are gonna come back provide links like dontlop to prove your point. Dontlop you rock!

[easyrider]

 

Jackson hole 2010

 

http://video.foxbusi...aylist_id=87089

 

Shabbibi states Iraq is RICH and they can be pumping 3.5 million barrels of oil each day by 2016.

Edited October 26, 2013 by easyrider

[handy]

Dontlop , dinarbeliever , easyrider ,Mr.Optimistic  thank-you very much .  Keep....

[dontlop]

It's funny how with fiat currency involved the world community can shut down a country

I guess they can work on reinstating that wealth

It looks like the debt to GDP is good

Which makes inflation good

Which makes their currency hold value

Nice

All they need now is more value to add to the dinar

Where do ya think Iraqis value could come from

The ground

It's in the ground

[keepmwlknfny]

there you go again with your sarcastic tone. Dontlop provided links to back up what he is saying. You come back with an ignorant tone keepem. I was starting to like you again and you go and let yourself down. If you are gonna come back provide links like dontlop to prove your point. Dontlop you rock!

His links didnt even prove his point. Did you even take the time to look at them? Or just figured since there was a link attached that it mustbbe true lol. I can talk about how the earth is flat and post a link to facebook, will you believe it then?

Yes he posted a graph showing the debt going up. Great....awesome....does not mean thats it is soley responsible for the dinars fall in value. No where on that CIA page does it even hint that because Iraqs debt was going up it made the dinar depreciate.

Not until it starts talking about the reserves being depleted down to two billion does it mention the dinar depreciating. Now was debt a problem? Sure.....but that does not mean thats what cause the depreciation. The IMF and worldbank help countries reschedule and restructure debt and payments. It doesnt automatically mean that should you start piling up debt your currencies value with drop.

Take a moment and search the history of the Iraqi dinar and its value. Practically everywhere you search it states because of Saddams overprinting of the dinar the value droppednin value. This is basic knowledge. ...its not difficult to understand....

[George Hayduke]

@ ONE - Good read, plausible but unlikely.  

 

On a lighter note, what brand coffee do you drink?  I'd like to try it out.

 

GH

[AmericaInc]

 

Australia has significant resources of gold, uranium, iron ore, coal and many other important and valuable commodities. They are in the ground, not in a central bank, but this is the nearest thing the world has to the old gold standard. That’s why the Australian currency is so strong.

The same is also true of currencies in Canada, South Africa and Russia. They are effectively backed by commodities in the ground.

 

Excellent point.

Consider in addition:  the US military ultimately backs the stability of Iraq. So investors know this, and that's why money is pouring in. There may always be some low-level attacks going on forever owver there, as the Islamists realize Iraq is Washington's client state. I don't think stability will hold up the RV - if it is going to happen.

[AmericaInc]

His links didnt even prove his point. Did you even take the time to look at them? Or just figured since there was a link attached that it mustbbe true lol. I can talk about how the earth is flat and post a link to facebook, will you believe it then?

Yes he posted a graph showing the debt going up. Great....awesome....does not mean thats it is soley responsible for the dinars fall in value. No where on that CIA page does it even hint that because Iraqs debt was going up it made the dinar depreciate.

Not until it starts talking about the reserves being depleted down to two billion does it mention the dinar depreciating. Now was debt a problem? Sure.....but that does not mean thats what cause the depreciation. The IMF and worldbank help countries reschedule and restructure debt and payments. It doesnt automatically mean that should you start piling up debt your currencies value with drop.

Take a moment and search the history of the Iraqi dinar and its value. Practically everywhere you search it states because of Saddams overprinting of the dinar the value droppednin value. This is basic knowledge. ...its not difficult to understand....

"Take a moment and search the history of the Iraqi dinar and its value. Practically everywhere you search it states because of Saddams overprinting of the dinar the value droppednin value. This is basic knowledge. ...its not difficult to understand...."

 

Keep - thanks for the reminder of overprinting. That is why I posted the topic, "New(ish) theory on curency exchange..."

We DO NOT, nor do YOU, know exactly how much physical dinar is out there.

NOR do we know how the electronic dinar will be handled if there is a currency change.

We do NOT know, despite what the CBI posts, what is in circulation.

We DO NOT know if hyperinflation was affected (diminished...) when the exchange to Bremmers took place. (see my topic post above)

 

And the fact that we do not know any of this, leaves the possibility of an RV, even a smallish one under a dollar, based on their resources, US backing, their international connection, help from UN and IMF/World Bank and fiat system.

 

Soooooo....when you sound so sure that you know overprinting leaves no room for a currency appreciation, and everyone else is not paying attention...well, it sounds a bit inflated on your part.

 

At the same time, love your analysis on the dinar, man.

Edited November 11, 2013 by AmericaInc

[dontlop]

Follow The Money

By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

Published: October 13, 1996

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/10/13/opinion/follow-the-money.html

A few days ago there was an intriguing article in Iraq's most influential newspaper, Babel, criticizing the Iraqi Government for lifting all the restrictions and roadblocks on trade between northern Iraq and the rest of the country. Why? Well, northern Iraq, when it was under U.S-allied control, had de facto open borders with the world and you could buy anything there. The rest of Iraq, though, was under U.N. economic embargo. So when Saddam Hussein's Kurds drove the pro-U.S. Kurds out of northern Iraq, and reintegrated it with the rest of the country, Iraqi traders went on a shopping spree. Suddenly, they could get all sorts of previously banned goods through northern Iraq. And how did they buy them? By selling their Iraqi dinars for dollars on the black market. And what happened to the Iraqi dinar? It dropped 30 percent, going from 1,150 to the dollar to 1,550.

Babel's front-page editorial thundered that while the recovery of northern Iraq has great ''nationalist and political meaning that Iraq's land is one,'' integrating it economically was a disaster. But the best part of the story is this: Guess who owns Babel? Saddam Hussein's evil son, Uday.

Think about that: The U.S. is bemoaning Saddam's great victory in northern Iraq, while Saddam's son is running editorials complaining that this ''victory'' is costing a fortune and probably undermining his own monopoly on the smuggling of goods through northern Iraq for resale at exorbitant prices.

Which brings us to the point: The only way to hurt Saddam is not by setting up a bigger ''no-fly zone,'' but by setting up a bigger ''no-buy zone.'' Forget his radar. Go for his wallet. His regime is built on two pillars: the Republican Guards and money. If we're not going to attack the Guards, let's at least attack his cash flow.

Here's an economic war plan:

1. Print dinars. The U.S. should flood Iraq with counterfeit Iraqi dinars. It would wreak havoc. Because the U.S. has blocked the sale of money-printing presses, ink and paper to Iraq, Washington can already print better Iraqi money than Baghdad can.

2. Many oil traders believe Saddam is funding himself by playing the oil futures market. The world oil market has very little surplus right now. The only way it could loosen up is if Iraq, with its capacity to pump three to four million barrels a day, were to comply with U.N. resolutions and get out from under the U.N. oil embargo. That's why it is relatively easy for Saddam to manipulate the market. If he hints that Iraq will comply with the U.N., he can send prices falling; if he hints that Iraq won't comply, he can send prices rising. And if he does it in a calculated way, he can make a fortune on oil futures.

Ironically, the best way to rob Saddam of that power is by going ahead with U.N. resolution 986, which would allow him to sell $2 billion worth of oil that could only be used to buy food and medicine for his people. That oil would certainly loosen the market. No one knows that better than Saddam, which is why every time it seems as if 986 is going to happen, he does something to scuttle it. Saddam also doesn't want so much food flooding into Iraq under independent U.N. auspices. He prefers being embargoed, because he and his supporters control most smuggling into Iraq, from which they reap much cash.

3. According to U.S. intelligence, Saddam has used $2 billion of his covert income to build 50 palaces, for himself, his family and close supporters, since the end of the gulf war. One of the largest, near Lake Tharthar, is five times the size of the White House. The next time the U.S. bombs Iraq it should destroy them all. It would cost Saddam a fortune to rebuild them -- and their existence would be exposed to every Iraqi.

4. Many oil traders believe Saddam is also earning a steady income by shipping oil on small boats from Umm Qasr to Iran, where it is sold on the market. U.S. divers should arrange for some ''accidents'' to happen to those ships.

The best way to trigger fighting in Saddam's family is by shrinking the pie they feast from. The only people in Saddam's family who have ever been killed are his two sons-in-law, who were murdered by Uday's forces in a dispute that originated over money. Rumor has it that when Saddam got mad at Uday last year and decided to punish him, he did so by personally dousing Uday's antique sports car collection with gasoline and torching it.

Saddam really knows how to hurt a guy. So should we. Follow the money.

[dontlop]

Fake-Money Flood Is Aimed At Crippling Iraq's Economy

By YOUSSEF M. IBRAHIM

Published: May 27, 1992

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/05/27/world/fake-money-flood-is-aimed-at-crippling-iraq-s-economy.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Iraq's economy is the target of an American-led destabilization campaign to pour vast amounts of counterfeit currency into the country, Arab and Western officials here say.

The fake dinar notes are being smuggled across the Jordanian, Saudi, Turkish and Iranian borders in an effort to undermine the Iraqi economy, said the officials here who closely monitor the situation inside Iraq. Those officials said counterfeit dollars are being smuggled into Iraq in smaller quantities to further confound the banking system. The officials, who insisted on not being identified, said the countries behind the separate counterfeiting operations included Western nations, Saudi Arabia, Iran and Israel.

The fake currency is openly discussed in the press and by the people in Iraq. The counterfeiting problem has become serious enough to be loudly denounced by the Government, which is taking measures to curb it, including instituting life sentences for cooperating in circulating counterfeit dollars or dinars and death sentences for those who smuggle them into the country. Efforts in High Gear

The fake currency has contributed to Iraq's severe inflation problem, which is aggravated by the fact that the Iraqi Government is printing money at uncontrolled speed to pay inflated salaries and cover the costs of reconstruction.

Over the last few months, the destabilization efforts seem to have shifted into high gear, officials here say, particularly after the United States was reported in February to have authorized full-fledged covert operations against Iraq.

[ In Washington, Mark Mansfield, a spokesman for the Central Intelligence Agency, declined to discuss the dumping of fake currency in Iraq. "As a matter of policy we don't comment on such allegations," he said. ] Pressure on Saddam Hussein

Along with international economic sanctions against Iraq, those measures have had mixed results since the Persian Gulf war ended in February 1991. They have clearly helped weaken the economy to the point where the local currency could become worthless, and they have loosened Mr. Hussein's grip on the people and forced his Government to respond with an intensified reconstruction program to curtail shortages and restore basic services.

On the other hand, the measures buttressed the assertion, shared by a rising number of Iraqi nationalists including Sunni Muslims and Christians, that the West and its allies will not be content with the removal of Saddam Hussein, but only with partitioning and destroying the country.

Further weakening the economy is the fact that legitimate Iraqi currency is not backed by any gold or hard currency because those are being used to import goods.

As a result, the dinar, which has a fixed rate of exchange equivalent to three United States dollars, has a real value of about 2 percent of that.

"You can get as much as 21 dinar to the dollar when things are really going badly but it does not get better than 16 dinars to the dollar," a diplomat said.

Some Iraqi travelers interviewed here, including businessmen, said they expected the currency value to plunge much farther soon.

Since Iraq stopped doing business with Brtiain during the gulf crisis and began printing its own money on lower-quality paper, counterfeiting has become much easier, various sources said. Entry Points for Fake Money

"People joke about it and some have become experts in telling which denominations are printed in Israel, the United States or in Saudi Arabia," said an Iraqi who insisted not being identified.

Iraq accused Washington of masterminding a campaign to smuggle counterfeit currency into Iraq "to sabotage the Iraqi economy in cooperation with Iran and Saudi Arabia," according to a May 6 letter to the United Nations Secretary General, Boutros Boutros-Ghali.

Counterfeit money was dropped by United States helicopters in the southern marshland areas, in Mandali and in al-Tib in the Maysan governorate, said the letter from the Iraqi Foreign Minister, Ahmad Hussein.

The letter, reported by the Iraqi press agency and reprinted in Iraqi newspapers, said counterfeit money was entering the country through the Turkish and Jordanian borders as well. Stiff Punishment Imposed

A Saudi official, who insisted on not being identified, concurred with the reports, saying that "all borders are being used."

Similarly, a senior Jordanian official agreed with the report, saying Jordan "does not approve of it, but we can do little to stop it".

The Israeli Government has made no public acknowledgement of any participation in such an operation.

On May 10, the Iraqi Revolutionary Command Council issued a decree withdrawing all 100 dinar bills. It said unless the larger bills were turned over to the banks in return for bills of different denominations, they would be worthless ""within 30 days".

On May 20, the Iraqi Ministry of Justice instructed the courts to hand down the stiff sentences for circulating the money.

Most stores in big Iraqi cities have acquired machines to detect fake currency, and many merchants have stopped accepting large-denomination bills. Insuring Basic Supplies

Despite wide-ranging efforts to undermine Mr. Hussein, Jordanian officials who are familiar with the power structure in Iraq say the Government is not about to fall, even though public discontent is widespread.

Western diplomats assigned here to keep watch on Iraq say Mr. Hussein has surrounded himself and the rest of the ruling establishment with some 45,000 men spread over four different security services and units of the Republican guards.

"He is looking like a big fish in small pond that keeps on getting smaller, but those who surround him are generously compensated and most of them know their fate is tied to his," a foreign diplomat who insisted on not being identified said.

Diplomats say Iraq has made sure that its reserve funds are used to insure the supply of basic foods to the population to avoid an outright revolt.

"It's not Somalia, where they haven't seen meat in ages," a Western diplomat said. "Government rations insure a minimum of 1,300 calories per person and in most cases, the subsistence level of 1,600 calories is available to most Iraqis." Circumventing Sanctions

"Basic goods are isolated from the market mechanism and remain available to most people under a rationing system regardless of the hyperinflation," said Fahd al-Fanek, a Jordanian economist who has visited Iraq recently.

Iraq's Minister of Education and Scientific Research, Abdelrazak al-Hashemi, said in a recent interview from Amman: "We are not going to stop living just because sanctions are maintained and we will not accept humiliating conditions to export oil. The Iraqi people realize that this campaign is aimed at our country, its purpose being to partition Iraq and destroy it as a nation, but these dreams will never happen."

Despite the stern sanctions imposed on the country's imports, the Iraqi Government appears able to obtain not only essential goods but forbidden imports of some spare parts for factories, using a vast cache of gold and hard currency.

The Iraqi Government has made great headway in its reconstruction program, reinstituting basic services that were destroyed or damaged by the gulf war in Baghdad and other major cities.

Iraqis and Jordanians say about 110 or 130 bridges destroyed during the war have been repaired. Electricity cutoffs have stopped in Baghdad and telephone service to the capital has largely resumed. Iraqi Funds Unfrozen

A Western diplomat said the crucial highway linking the Jordanian border to Baghdad, a vital connection with the outside world, has been resurfaced with abundant asphalt produced by Iraq's rejuvenated oil refineries and is "one of the best in the world."

Diplomats say Iraq finds some comfort also in dealing with countries on its borders within the limits of United Nations sanctions.

After Saudi Arabia cut oil supplies to Jordan during the gulf crisis, for example, Iraq began exporting 55,000 barrels of oil per day to Jordan, of which 33,000 barrels a day are free of charge, bringing much goodwill toward the Iraqis. The balance of the oil is sold at a fixed price of $16 a barrel in return for goods that Jordan exports that are permitted under the sanctions regime imposed on Iraq by the United Nations.

Elsewhere, as Iraqi funds are unfrozen slowly in various parts of the world, Iraq is able to continue to buy foods and permitted items, thus further alleviating shortages. Clandestine Radio

Furthermore, Jordanians and Iraqis say, Mr. Hussein is tolerating some discontent and petty corruption as measures to release some steam.

Iraqis who were not able to leave the country because they were blacklisted, for instance, have been able to obtain passports with bribes while the regime looks the other way.

But Mr. Fanek said that the policy of humiliating Iraq is backfiring as most Iraqis, and more Arabs, have come to look on the West not as a savior but as an oppressor.

On other fronts, the broad campaign to destabilize the Government of Mr. Hussein includes clandestine radio stations and dissident militias financed and organized by the United States, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Israel, Britain and France.

The stations broadcast in Arabic, Kurdish and Turkmen, inveighing the population to revolt, according to Western diplomats assigned to Amman, Iraqi travelers, and Jordanian officials, all of whom insisted that their names be withheld.

While part of the destabilization plan, like the counterfeit smuggling operations, is coordinated by Western allies separately with Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Israel, other efforts like Iran's and Saudi Arabia's arming and finanacing of dissidents reflect competition with Western allies rather than cooperation with their efforts.

Iran has steadily worked to bring down the Iraqi Government in favor of a Shiite Islamic republic fashioned on its own model, particularly in the oil-producing south around Basra.

Saudi Arabia, which does not want to see an Iranian-style government on its borders, is working on assembling and organizing exiled Iraqi dissidents who are former officers and officials of the ruling Baath party.

Edited January 9, 2014 by dontlop

[dontlop]

When faced with the prospect of a currency crisis, central bankers in a fixed exchange rate economy can try to maintain the current fixed exchange rate by eating into the country's foreign reserves, or letting the exchange rate fluctuate.

Why is tapping into foreign reserves a solution? When the market expects devaluation, downward pressure placed on the currency can really only be offset by an increase in the interest rate. In order to increase the rate, the central bank has to shrink the money supply, which in turn increases demand for the currency. (>>>>The bank can do this by selling off foreign reserves to create a capital outflow. When the bank sells a portion of its foreign reserves, it receives payment in the form of the domestic currency, which it holds out of circulation as an asset.<<<<)<<<<<currency auctions?

Propping up the exchange rate cannot last forever, both in terms of a decline in foreign reserves as well as political and economic factors, such as rising unemployment. Devaluing the currency by increasing the fixed exchange rate results in domestic goods being cheaper than foreign goods, which boosts demand for workers and increases output. In the short run devaluation also increases interest rates, which must be offset by the central bank through an increase in the money supply and an increase in foreign reserves. As mentioned earlier, propping up a fixed exchange rate can eat through a country's reserves quickly, and devaluing the currency can add back reserves.

Unfortunately for banks, but fortunately for you, investors are well aware that a devaluation strategy can be used, and can build this into their expectations. If the market expects the central bank to devalue the currency, which would increase the exchange rate, the possibility of boosting foreign reserves through an increase in aggregate demand is not realized. Instead, the central bank must use its reserves to shrink the money supply, which increases the domestic interest rate.

Edited January 9, 2014 by dontlop

[dontlop]

http://www.khanacademy.org/economics-finance-domain/core-finance/money-and-banking/banking-and-money/v/banking-13--open-market-operations

Utube 12 minutes

[JimH]

For all you citizens that believe the dollar is backed by gold and that Ft Knox is full of gold and that the Federal Reserve is owned and operated by the US government.... I have a really nice bridge for sale....Just bring all your silver certificate and gold certificate U. S. dollars in cash and I will make you a heck of a deal.  I'll even paint it for you any color you want......

 

May the Good Lord bless you in your total ignorance!!!!  How old are you anyway? 

[dontlop]

Hello. This is my first post. I've been lurking for quite some time, and registered as a member earlier this year and was a VIP for a short while.I have generally chosen not to post in the past given the disrespect shown to many self-professed gurus, who, although getting it wrong much of the time, have offered truthful insight in a number of ways and on a number of occasions. Much of their commentary is beyond the comprehension of the masses given that the majority of the world's populace is not equipped with the true facts as to how finance, commerce, and the law actually work (I could go further to include the universe here but that's another discussion), given that schools, universities and modern text books all omit huge issues that when known change one's perception of what was previously considered a common truth or accepted fact. The same can be said for the gurus, who, whilst are equipped with more facts than the majority, their version of "the truth" is still not the full pictue either, hence their continued perceived failure to date.Anyway, I wanted to respond to this thread given this appears to be a common issue of confusion. I apologise now for the length of post, however many basic assumptions must be overturned if one is to understand this investment.It is a fallacy that fiat currencies are not backed by anything. They are backed by the faith that a country is able to pay off it's "promises to pay" (which is all that your notes are); it doesn't matter how, so this naturally includes assets. Some background is needed to understand how this actually works in practice, and how it is accomplished administratively is nothing short of amazing in one's honest opinion.The current economic system is actually a world-wide bankruptcy system whereby all countries operate as if they were in bankruptcy as far as law is concerned, the US included (for confirmation regarding the USA, look up comments made by Jim Traficant). This is the only way in law that fiat currencies can be implemented. Accordingly, the economic system is an entity that is wholly owned and controlled (and often manipulated) by those creditors holding the banktruptcy liens; property rights dictate that they can do what they want with their property. People will naturally cry that this is a conspiracy theory here, however if they were to do the research they would find that the facts are out there and fully documented. Hence the current perceived meltdown is a controlled demolition, but from the highest levels, so even those corporations people deem as having been pulling the strings are subject to their creators, and in turn those are subject to the creators of the system. Fortunately, the system's creator is sorting things out and pulling the plug on many of these guys (scapegoating!), hence this is why it appears that at one level there is a battle for control going on; the truth is that there is only going to be one winner and this is predetermined by contractual obligation. That winner is all of us - eventually.This is why people feel their rights have been stolen. What has actually occurred is that you have given your consent to exchange these natural rights for privileges determined by those in charge.The larger commerical system of law that the bankruptcy economy sits within is where transactions of actual substance take place, and where gold and other substances are the currency, and this is the system within which creditors play. At this level, statutes of law are irrelevant, since their jurisdiction is limited to the debtors, ie all those people who do not realise the part they play in the world. This is the reason why it so often appears as there being "one law for them and one for us"; it is because that is the case! However all are in the position they are in via their own consent, hence it feels unjust that some are prosecuted for an offence that others will not be, however it is all about jurisdiction and contractual obligation and one's current place in the world; we all have the ability to rise up beyond it, however it is a philosophical journey to some extent that many don't have the will to pursue. In fact, this is largely why this has remained undiscoverd by the masses; people police themselves and the rest of society using ridicule and assertions that something is a conspiracy theory or people are nut-jobs etc. People would do well to remember: condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance (Einstein).One must also remember the legal adage of "he who has the gold must pays the bills"; it is the creditors are responsible for a countries well-being, or not. Any person who is not aware that this is the case, is lawfully a debtor to these creditors, no matter how much "money" one thinks they have, since this "money" is actually only a promise to pay the creditor in energy, in the future. In law, all have given their consent for this to be the case, through their tacit acceptance and use of the system, hence their current legal status of being subject to statutes etc whether they deem them unfair or unlawful or not. (There are many films serving as metaphors for this concept: creditors are oftern depicted as vampires... they suck your blood, or rather your life force, ie your energy).Democracy, has two faces. On one side and at face value, it is allowing the people control of their destiny. On the other, it is a tool to make people believe they have a say when really they do not. It is mob rule where the majority wins, however the majority can be manipulated as you see today with the press and its consolidated ownership by a few. The rule of law, and constitutions etc, were put in place to prevent this manipulation and safe guarding basic rights so one cannot be persecuted as a minortiy via new laws (really just rules you have agreed to)... (there is no protection today - some minorities are protected but others are not). However, these constitutions do not apply to debtors within the system since they have given up that right by their own consent! The next stage is either to remove this layer of illusory control via commerce and go back to the consitution etc, or raise the understanding of all so that full use can be made of the systems that have been invented for the benefit of all. This choice is not clear in the public eye therefore a return to constitutional rule is the common solution put forth due to people being ignorant that there are other solutions, however this will result in a situation of scarcity, and an uprising of people who are going without. All of it is only possible because neither side of the argument understands the facts of the matter.So, back to the point,. the faith in being able to repay, is a reflection of the assets that a country has, which whilst in many cases will include substances such as gold and oil etc which have themselves been monetised within the bankruptcy system through the creation of legal title against an entity (person) who themselves are assets of the country, the majority of a currency's value is backed by the assets known as... the people, and their propensity to work (to labour and create motion) and pay taxes. The people, via the process of birth registration (check your birth certificate, it is bank note paper) are technically the assets or chattels of the country (again, techincally this is on a temporary basis however because people don't realise or choose not to reject this it is effectively permanent), and therefore a country can secure loans etc against their collateral, ie people (hence there is no political will to reduce immigration - more people equals more collateral). Currencies work the same way, and assuming everyone realised this is what backs fiat currencies, said currencies would always have value as long as there are people prepared to work and can do, since currencies are a reflection of energy, and are a tool to control and direct the flow of energy (and largely here I mean labour), or even save it for a later date.This is why security, infrastructure and industry are so important and such a big focus before the revaluing of the Iraqi currency, since during the war years there has been no ability for people to effectively work and therefore be taxed (and consequently the currency had little or no value). The revaluing will effectively correspond to the monetisation of the people by creating conditions to allow them to operate in the same manner as other countries, thereby backing the currency by their energy for the most par. People themselves have a value to a country, and these values are calculated based on all manner of criteria including birth-weight, gender etc using an internationally agreed (or rather centrally set) algorithm within admiralty laws ; this enables countries to quantify the energy that it's populace can contribute to the economy for use in determining currency values etc.One must remember that oil is valuable because it is energy; but the people are also a form of energy, given that without them corporations would be worthless since nothing can happen without a pair of hands to do it, and in fact people have a greater value given that said energy is largely unlimited. This, coupled with their vast natural resources, is why Iraq's currency could be very strong. Largely their population is very young which is another bonus, as therefore they have considerable energy, many years of work ahead of them, and the older population that would rely on consuming the energy of others, is largely irrelevant due to their low numbers following the wars.Extra.All those who feel corporations should be taxed more fail to understand that corporations cannot be taxed since it is only the workers that put anything in; accordingly it is the workers who are actually being taxed. The word corporation is derived from cooperation. The idea of a corporation was to pool energy for the collective benefit, however they system has been perverted for the benefit of the handul at the top, and today we take this as standard despite it not being how things were meant to be. Some will say this was a necessity due to the lack of understanding by the majority, however I would argue that a better approach would have been to raise people's understanding instead so all work together for the benefit of all.The truth is, there is no need for tax at all. What it occurring is the division and conquering of the people so that you will submit to the forthcoming solution of a centralised top down led dictatorship; one side wants benefits etc for everyone and high tax on high earners, the other sees this as unfair that they are working hard and paying for others and therefore they want reduced taxes and less benefits. The truth is that we can have the best of both worlds.... and a centralised system would offer great advantages, but only if achieved with the masses having full understanding and consciously consenting. There is no need to give up sovereignty, boundaries or any of these other illusory things, provided everyone has full awareness - something the interent is helping to deliver. If a country authorises a centralised power to act on its behalf, it can withdraw that consent and authorisation at any time, provided it is represented by persons of honesty, integrity, and full awareness to the facts. The same holds true on an individual level - it is simply a case of understanding the correct administrative methods to adjust one's legal status. If you don't like something, step out of the jurisdiction - and this does not mean you actually have to move!The invention of double entry bookkeeping, together with the system of birth registration and therefore value quantifying of individuals could be used to provide all services we currently have without the need for taxation to pay for it. The money is already there, just held in trust because the people are unaware so they will not take it back. Far better would be for people to know, but still leave it there for the benefit of all - services could then be paid for using these trusts and money never needs to be repaid to anyone because it is only yourself that you would owe. Currently banks seemingly create money - what is actually occurring is that they are monetising a loan application, where people are promising to pay back $x via their labour (energy). This can work the same for benefits - money can be created for someone's unemployment cheque by the authorising the access of their personal trust (based on your birth certificate) and creation of money against their name, however as above, there is no need to repay yourself! The current push by many parties to return to substance backed currencies, ie precious metals etc, is a deception. It may however occur for a short while, effectively between banktruptcy terms. This is the end of the 70 years banktruptcy term within which countries find themselves, and therefore this is a major opportunity. Understandably many parties who have discovered they are being used as collateral are unhappy with this and are trying to break free, ie the conspiracy theory movement. What they fail to understand is that fiat currencies are an invention, an idea, to be used for the benefit of mankind. They have taken us a long way in developing the world, and although leverage is a dirty word, the progress that has been made would not have been without fiat currencies and leverage etc. The problem has been that the trustees of the national bankruptcy states have colluded to benefit themselves at the expense of the people (from one perspective - although from their own they are doing it for your benefit, to teach you). The current time is a time where these trustees can be changed due to the end of the term, and the system can be used for the benefit of all rather than just a few, if only everyone had full awareness of the issues. So the major piece still required to finish this puzzle, is for people to actually realise all this. The debts do not need to be repaid. Yes the debts have acted as a yoke round people's necks, however in the language of law, this has been via our own consent. Now is the time to wake up! There is never anyone to blame but one's self. All debts can be paid off instantly via the correct administrative process by a person with the correct status in law, and this is all going to occur anyway despite people not realising what the problem actually is (and therefore it being impossible for them to see a solution).Many people believe that they need to be freed from the current system. It should be considered that freedom comes in many forms. I would argue that people would be freer if thay understood and could use the system correctly and therefore remain in this effective bankruptcy situation but via choice and awareness rather than deception, as opposed to withdrawing from the system altogether and therefore not receiving any of the great benefits as a substance backed system would deliver. Because said substances are finite, this type of system creates a scenario of scarcity and fear (of not having enough!) and therefore hoarding, self-centred focus, and consequently war (often this feels out of duty to protect one's neighbour, however it is an illusion!). Fiat systems allow abundance due to the energy being unlimited and help reduce said fear, provided there is conscious consent and awareness of the true system mechanism. Freedom is having choice. Currently people think they have choice, but they largely do not - they are forced either via peer pressure, "laws" of society, and most importantly deceptive tactics of subliminial conditioning to make them think that a thought is there own, when it has simply been suggested to them.To touch on the universal level, it is fear that maintains the world's problems. Remove it, and the world would be a much happier place. All this can only be achieved via education as to the true mechanisms of the current systems. A good start would be the removal of tax! (Taxes go to the creditors, not on benefits for the debtors - these benefits are paid for using the exact method I suggest ie double entry book-keeping and trust accounts via your application for said benefits, however the deception is that you are told that your taxes pay for these benefits hence dividing you from your neighbour who is receiving the benefits of what you perceive to be your labour but in reality it is his own money, you're just both being conned).This may not make any sense to most, but I hope for some, it may strike a chord. I wrote this out quickly in one go so if it reads as disjointed I apologise... just offering a perspective. I happily accept criticism and abuse given I have chosen to post this with my eyes open. It is a difficult subject to write about given there are just so many angles and so many assumptions that must be broked and replaced with new ones.Have a good day guys. Please keep this in Rumours as it will not get read in Perspectives. And treat it as entertainment

Thanks

[dontlop]

It takes a smart person to write something like that

.

[George Hayduke]

I thought freedom was just another word for nothing left to lose...

 

[dontlop]

Hello. This is my first post. I've been lurking for quite some time, and registered as a member earlier this year and was a VIP for a short while.I have generally chosen not to post in the past given the disrespect shown to many self-professed gurus, who, although getting it wrong much of the time, have offered truthful insight in a number of ways and on a number of occasions. Much of their commentary is beyond the comprehension of the masses given that the majority of the world's populace is not equipped with the true facts as to how finance, commerce, and the law actually work (I could go further to include the universe here but that's another discussion), given that schools, universities and modern text books all omit huge issues that when known change one's perception of what was previously considered a common truth or accepted fact. The same can be said for the gurus, who, whilst are equipped with more facts than the majority, their version of "the truth" is still not the full pictue either, hence their continued perceived failure to date.Anyway, I wanted to respond to this thread given this appears to be a common issue of confusion. I apologise now for the length of post, however many basic assumptions must be overturned if one is to understand this investment.It is a fallacy that fiat currencies are not backed by anything. They are backed by the faith that a country is able to pay off it's "promises to pay" (which is all that your notes are); it doesn't matter how, so this naturally includes assets. Some background is needed to understand how this actually works in practice, and how it is accomplished administratively is nothing short of amazing in one's honest opinion.The current economic system is actually a world-wide bankruptcy system whereby all countries operate as if they were in bankruptcy as far as law is concerned, the US included (for confirmation regarding the USA, look up comments made by Jim Traficant). This is the only way in law that fiat currencies can be implemented. Accordingly, the economic system is an entity that is wholly owned and controlled (and often manipulated) by those creditors holding the banktruptcy liens; property rights dictate that they can do what they want with their property. People will naturally cry that this is a conspiracy theory here, however if they were to do the research they would find that the facts are out there and fully documented. Hence the current perceived meltdown is a controlled demolition, but from the highest levels, so even those corporations people deem as having been pulling the strings are subject to their creators, and in turn those are subject to the creators of the system. Fortunately, the system's creator is sorting things out and pulling the plug on many of these guys (scapegoating!), hence this is why it appears that at one level there is a battle for control going on; the truth is that there is only going to be one winner and this is predetermined by contractual obligation. That winner is all of us - eventually.This is why people feel their rights have been stolen. What has actually occurred is that you have given your consent to exchange these natural rights for privileges determined by those in charge.The larger commerical system of law that the bankruptcy economy sits within is where transactions of actual substance take place, and where gold and other substances are the currency, and this is the system within which creditors play. At this level, statutes of law are irrelevant, since their jurisdiction is limited to the debtors, ie all those people who do not realise the part they play in the world. This is the reason why it so often appears as there being "one law for them and one for us"; it is because that is the case! However all are in the position they are in via their own consent, hence it feels unjust that some are prosecuted for an offence that others will not be, however it is all about jurisdiction and contractual obligation and one's current place in the world; we all have the ability to rise up beyond it, however it is a philosophical journey to some extent that many don't have the will to pursue. In fact, this is largely why this has remained undiscoverd by the masses; people police themselves and the rest of society using ridicule and assertions that something is a conspiracy theory or people are nut-jobs etc. People would do well to remember: condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance (Einstein).One must also remember the legal adage of "he who has the gold must pays the bills"; it is the creditors are responsible for a countries well-being, or not. Any person who is not aware that this is the case, is lawfully a debtor to these creditors, no matter how much "money" one thinks they have, since this "money" is actually only a promise to pay the creditor in energy, in the future. In law, all have given their consent for this to be the case, through their tacit acceptance and use of the system, hence their current legal status of being subject to statutes etc whether they deem them unfair or unlawful or not. (There are many films serving as metaphors for this concept: creditors are oftern depicted as vampires... they suck your blood, or rather your life force, ie your energy).Democracy, has two faces. On one side and at face value, it is allowing the people control of their destiny. On the other, it is a tool to make people believe they have a say when really they do not. It is mob rule where the majority wins, however the majority can be manipulated as you see today with the press and its consolidated ownership by a few. The rule of law, and constitutions etc, were put in place to prevent this manipulation and safe guarding basic rights so one cannot be persecuted as a minortiy via new laws (really just rules you have agreed to)... (there is no protection today - some minorities are protected but others are not). However, these constitutions do not apply to debtors within the system since they have given up that right by their own consent! The next stage is either to remove this layer of illusory control via commerce and go back to the consitution etc, or raise the understanding of all so that full use can be made of the systems that have been invented for the benefit of all. This choice is not clear in the public eye therefore a return to constitutional rule is the common solution put forth due to people being ignorant that there are other solutions, however this will result in a situation of scarcity, and an uprising of people who are going without. All of it is only possible because neither side of the argument understands the facts of the matter.So, back to the point,. the faith in being able to repay, is a reflection of the assets that a country has, which whilst in many cases will include substances such as gold and oil etc which have themselves been monetised within the bankruptcy system through the creation of legal title against an entity (person) who themselves are assets of the country, the majority of a currency's value is backed by the assets known as... the people, and their propensity to work (to labour and create motion) and pay taxes. The people, via the process of birth registration (check your birth certificate, it is bank note paper) are technically the assets or chattels of the country (again, techincally this is on a temporary basis however because people don't realise or choose not to reject this it is effectively permanent), and therefore a country can secure loans etc against their collateral, ie people (hence there is no political will to reduce immigration - more people equals more collateral). Currencies work the same way, and assuming everyone realised this is what backs fiat currencies, said currencies would always have value as long as there are people prepared to work and can do, since currencies are a reflection of energy, and are a tool to control and direct the flow of energy (and largely here I mean labour), or even save it for a later date.This is why security, infrastructure and industry are so important and such a big focus before the revaluing of the Iraqi currency, since during the war years there has been no ability for people to effectively work and therefore be taxed (and consequently the currency had little or no value). The revaluing will effectively correspond to the monetisation of the people by creating conditions to allow them to operate in the same manner as other countries, thereby backing the currency by their energy for the most par. People themselves have a value to a country, and these values are calculated based on all manner of criteria including birth-weight, gender etc using an internationally agreed (or rather centrally set) algorithm within admiralty laws ; this enables countries to quantify the energy that it's populace can contribute to the economy for use in determining currency values etc.One must remember that oil is valuable because it is energy; but the people are also a form of energy, given that without them corporations would be worthless since nothing can happen without a pair of hands to do it, and in fact people have a greater value given that said energy is largely unlimited. This, coupled with their vast natural resources, is why Iraq's currency could be very strong. Largely their population is very young which is another bonus, as therefore they have considerable energy, many years of work ahead of them, and the older population that would rely on consuming the energy of others, is largely irrelevant due to their low numbers following the wars.Extra.All those who feel corporations should be taxed more fail to understand that corporations cannot be taxed since it is only the workers that put anything in; accordingly it is the workers who are actually being taxed. The word corporation is derived from cooperation. The idea of a corporation was to pool energy for the collective benefit, however they system has been perverted for the benefit of the handul at the top, and today we take this as standard despite it not being how things were meant to be. Some will say this was a necessity due to the lack of understanding by the majority, however I would argue that a better approach would have been to raise people's understanding instead so all work together for the benefit of all.The truth is, there is no need for tax at all. What it occurring is the division and conquering of the people so that you will submit to the forthcoming solution of a centralised top down led dictatorship; one side wants benefits etc for everyone and high tax on high earners, the other sees this as unfair that they are working hard and paying for others and therefore they want reduced taxes and less benefits. The truth is that we can have the best of both worlds.... and a centralised system would offer great advantages, but only if achieved with the masses having full understanding and consciously consenting. There is no need to give up sovereignty, boundaries or any of these other illusory things, provided everyone has full awareness - something the interent is helping to deliver. If a country authorises a centralised power to act on its behalf, it can withdraw that consent and authorisation at any time, provided it is represented by persons of honesty, integrity, and full awareness to the facts. The same holds true on an individual level - it is simply a case of understanding the correct administrative methods to adjust one's legal status. If you don't like something, step out of the jurisdiction - and this does not mean you actually have to move!The invention of double entry bookkeeping, together with the system of birth registration and therefore value quantifying of individuals could be used to provide all services we currently have without the need for taxation to pay for it. The money is already there, just held in trust because the people are unaware so they will not take it back. Far better would be for people to know, but still leave it there for the benefit of all - services could then be paid for using these trusts and money never needs to be repaid to anyone because it is only yourself that you would owe. Currently banks seemingly create money - what is actually occurring is that they are monetising a loan application, where people are promising to pay back $x via their labour (energy). This can work the same for benefits - money can be created for someone's unemployment cheque by the authorising the access of their personal trust (based on your birth certificate) and creation of money against their name, however as above, there is no need to repay yourself! The current push by many parties to return to substance backed currencies, ie precious metals etc, is a deception. It may however occur for a short while, effectively between banktruptcy terms. This is the end of the 70 years banktruptcy term within which countries find themselves, and therefore this is a major opportunity. Understandably many parties who have discovered they are being used as collateral are unhappy with this and are trying to break free, ie the conspiracy theory movement. What they fail to understand is that fiat currencies are an invention, an idea, to be used for the benefit of mankind. They have taken us a long way in developing the world, and although leverage is a dirty word, the progress that has been made would not have been without fiat currencies and leverage etc. The problem has been that the trustees of the national bankruptcy states have colluded to benefit themselves at the expense of the people (from one perspective - although from their own they are doing it for your benefit, to teach you). The current time is a time where these trustees can be changed due to the end of the term, and the system can be used for the benefit of all rather than just a few, if only everyone had full awareness of the issues. So the major piece still required to finish this puzzle, is for people to actually realise all this. The debts do not need to be repaid. Yes the debts have acted as a yoke round people's necks, however in the language of law, this has been via our own consent. Now is the time to wake up! There is never anyone to blame but one's self. All debts can be paid off instantly via the correct administrative process by a person with the correct status in law, and this is all going to occur anyway despite people not realising what the problem actually is (and therefore it being impossible for them to see a solution).Many people believe that they need to be freed from the current system. It should be considered that freedom comes in many forms. I would argue that people would be freer if thay understood and could use the system correctly and therefore remain in this effective bankruptcy situation but via choice and awareness rather than deception, as opposed to withdrawing from the system altogether and therefore not receiving any of the great benefits as a substance backed system would deliver. Because said substances are finite, this type of system creates a scenario of scarcity and fear (of not having enough!) and therefore hoarding, self-centred focus, and consequently war (often this feels out of duty to protect one's neighbour, however it is an illusion!). Fiat systems allow abundance due to the energy being unlimited and help reduce said fear, provided there is conscious consent and awareness of the true system mechanism. Freedom is having choice. Currently people think they have choice, but they largely do not - they are forced either via peer pressure, "laws" of society, and most importantly deceptive tactics of subliminial conditioning to make them think that a thought is there own, when it has simply been suggested to them.To touch on the universal level, it is fear that maintains the world's problems. Remove it, and the world would be a much happier place. All this can only be achieved via education as to the true mechanisms of the current systems. A good start would be the removal of tax! (Taxes go to the creditors, not on benefits for the debtors - these benefits are paid for using the exact method I suggest ie double entry book-keeping and trust accounts via your application for said benefits, however the deception is that you are told that your taxes pay for these benefits hence dividing you from your neighbour who is receiving the benefits of what you perceive to be your labour but in reality it is his own money, you're just both being conned).This may not make any sense to most, but I hope for some, it may strike a chord. I wrote this out quickly in one go so if it reads as disjointed I apologise... just offering a perspective. I happily accept criticism and abuse given I have chosen to post this with my eyes open. It is a difficult subject to write about given there are just so many angles and so many assumptions that must be broked and replaced with new ones.Have a good day guys. Please keep this in Rumours as it will not get read in Perspectives. And treat it as entertainment

Good stuff

You can go to page one to see it broken down A little

Between him and trinity exchange

There is a pile for speculator wisdom

[BradyBear]

We went off the Gold Standard either in the 1960s or early 1970s If I remember correctly.  Now all that backs it is the countries good name.

[AmericaInc]

There is roughly 150 billion proven reserves to date. Thats not gonna do them any better then the foreign reserves and gold they have now backing the currency. They have 15 trillion worth in oil......theCBIs liabilities are more then double that.....

Which is why it would do them no good to switch to commodity backed right now. And agaim that is still assuming they can use total reserves in the ground which would also lower the value of the currency the more that is pumped out and sold....

Keep, you have amazing stamina.

Like a factory pipe, you just "Keep" spewing out the pollution... I stand in awe, truly.

It's got to be related to a disorder.

Care to enlighten us on your diagnosis?

[mcjocky1]

Keep, you have amazing stamina.

Like a factory pipe, you just "Keep" spewing out the pollution... I stand in awe, truly.

It's got to be related to a disorder.

Care to enlighten us on your diagnosis?

 

   For stamina insert fortitude

 

   Pollution... your opinion differs from mine...that makes you wrong.

 

   You must be medically treatable ?

 

   Asking someone, who you think has a disorder, who doesn't know his arse from his elbow about the Dinar, to self diagnose his "condition" ... you are joking, yes.

 

   All joking aside, we all have our own ideas about Iraq and the Dinar situation, and give some respect for anyone elses opinion, which has stood up to some unnecassary vitriolic comments at times.

 

   We see daily on these threads, " No one knows when or what any change will be", but many castigate others for daring to put their thoughts into print... why ?.

 

   There are those on here who have posted thousands of times, yet when push comes to shove, they know not a jot more than you or I, if we are honest.

 

   Please take no offence from this piece, it is mainly in jest, (not all),

 

                                                                                                                   Dave.

[George Hayduke]

Keep, you have amazing stamina.

Like a factory pipe, you just "Keep" spewing out the pollution... I stand in awe, truly.

It's got to be related to a disorder.

Care to enlighten us on your diagnosis?

Are you bored?  You responded to a post dated Oct 2013.

 

Sheesh... and I thought I had the DV jones bad...