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I'm trying to understand why folks are selling. I believe they are afraid of a L0P. But why? Even it it does RD, we will (for the most part) break even. Yea there's the spread and taxes but so what? That's a nominal fee. If you spent $100 in Dinars and after a RD, you walk with $900, you lost $100 of which you can write off on your taxes.

This investment is an educated gamble, so the money one can lose if nill and worth the risk.

Even if one was to sell their Dinars now, you wouldn't get back 100% of what you paid, so there's that loss right there.

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listen, you have folks who won't tell on themselves that had no business buying dinars because of the financial situation they were in. They gambled and lost for the most part. Those of us, like myself who could afford to lose this investment, take this for granted. Some folks are on their last dime right now and their backs are against the wall and they may have to sell. Combine this with all of the negativity and they just get fed up with it all.

So, don't jump to conclusions my friend unless you are in one of the people's shoes.

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listen, you have folks who won't tell on themselves that had no business buying dinars because of the financial situation they were in. They gambled and lost for the most part. Those of us, like myself who could afford to lose this investment, take this for granted. Some folks are on their last dime right now and their backs are against the wall and they may have to sell. Combine this with all of the negativity and they just get fed up with it all.

So, don't jump to conclusions my friend unless you are in one of the people's shoes.

cbs71...I tend to believe you hit the nail on the head...lot of folks were hoping for an overnight financial windfall and may have gambled too much, some may have put themselves over the limit perhaps hoping to help others etc...guess most of us were certainly hoping for a better and speedier closure but I still think the odds of a decent return on our investment outweighs the risk...beats the lottery by 8 million to 1 or more... 7 card stud not so sure :P

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I hate that people are having to sell due to financial problems, but I will not be selling mine until the word is out, and verified if it takes a few more years. I wish these people could hold on, because I feel that it could be worthwhile to do so.

I really want to try and hold on but sincerely don't know for how much longer I'll be able to.....It's been 8 long years for me and I'd need the money urgently... As I said... I'll try.

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I really want to try and hold on but sincerely don't know for how much longer I'll be able to.....It's been 8 long years for me and I'd need the money urgently... As I said... I'll try.

Yea i hope you can too but honestly how are u gonna feel when you let them go being in tis for 8 years and it does finally RV i would be very very depressed if that happened to me.

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Yea i hope you can too but honestly how are u gonna feel when you let them go being in tis for 8 years and it does finally RV i would be very very depressed if that happened to me.

Of course it would be depressing... But I didn't say I would get rid of ALL of my Dinars......Just the necessary in order for me to get by for awhile....Let's hope.

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I think your numbers are a little off. A lot of people paid around $1200 per million. That's a 40% spread. If there's an RD and they get hit with another similar spread, they're not going to lose a hundred per thousand, they're going to end up losing about $570 per thousand. Losing 57% doesnt seem like breaking even to me .

But if they were to eBay, right now, they'd probably only lose about 100 per thousand, if even that much. That's a big difference, especially for anyone that bought more than they should have.

My point was missed. I apologize. Let me frame my intentions so it's better understood. The point of the post was under the auspices of people selling due to frustration. So now we have the dynamic of the:

Frustrated Investor vs. the investor who fell upon hard times and needs money.

I have always been a strong proponent of not investing what one cannot afford to lose. That said, let me go back to the subject of the thread, the 'frustrated investor.'

We entered this bet (yes I said BET) with high hopes. Between the GOI's lackadaisical attitude, the guru's BS, slow progress, etc etc it is easy to see why some have become disenchanted with this investment.

Now assuming one invested in the IQD with EXTRA money they had under the mattress (after the mortgage was paid, groceries bought, bills paid, etc) the potential return is so great that it obviously justifies the risk. Now being frustrated and entertaining the notion of a RD, some folks might sell their Dinars. Sure they will recoup some or most of the money, but the loss is still negligible compared to the return

JAnderson, I'm not sure where your math comes in, however as you said many folks paid around $1200 per million. Last I checked we can get about $850 per million by selling back (TD Bank's buy back rate). So yes that's a $350 loss you are correct.

Even if there is a RV at one penny, someone who holds 4 million Dinar will still make a $40,000 profit before the spread and taxes. Still a hell of a profit for a $4,800 investment.

Also you are assuming a RD at a .01 rate and a 40% spread. That is highly unlikely. That's more like Al Gore's fuzzy math Check the L0P section as there are numerous discussions on the subject. Common wisdom dictates that if they do L0P, our initial investment would be the same. Our 4 million dinars (which cost $4,800) will now be 4,000 IQD (and STILL worth $4,800). Now figure a 30% spread (more realistic) which is $1,440 you will take home $3,360.

If one goes to TD right now and sells 4 million back at $850/million they will walk with $3,400...$40 less than if they Lopped with a 30% spread. So what is one truly gaining by selling right now and not waiting it out? If one doesn't have a dire need for the immediate cash, one would actually lose $40 more than if there was an actual L0P!!! You would be $40 ahead if they Lopped versus if you sold back to the bank today!

My point here folks is that assuming the person does not immediately NEED the funds and must sell their Dinars to put food on the table, why not just hang on to them? Put them in the sock drawer, delete the DV & CBI.iq bookmarks we have and forget about them. If they RV, you will be flabbergasted. If they RD, you take a mitigated loss from the initial capitol (deductible from taxes) and recuperate 75% of the initial investment.

Hell, if we're not desperate for immediate cash it doesn't make sense to sell them. By selling, you are not going to spite Dr.Shabibi--he couldn't care less.

I hope that clarifies the point of the thread a little bit more.

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Your math is still wrong. Not sure where you're getting .01 rate and 40% spread, I'm figuring 1,000 old dinar at 0.00086 becomes 1 new dinar at 0.86. A normal 3 zero RD. And your 4 million dinar isn't worth 4800. That's what you paid including the SPREAD. The exchange rate is 1170 to 1, divide 4,000,000 by 1170 and your 4 million dinar is worth 3418 with zero spread. Subtract your 30% spread, (not sure why they'd charge a smaller spread, when they've got you over a barrel, but whatever) and it's worth 2392, not the 3360 you claim. 40% spread and it's $2051. 50% spread and it's $1709.

If they lop, your 1,000,000 dinar, that many people paid about 1200 USD for, is only worth $854, with no spread. TD buys dinar back for $850 right now because it's easier than getting it from Iraq and they're just going to resell it. They, very obviously, would not continue to buy old dinar at 850 if there was a lop, because there's no hope of reselling it, all they can do is ferry it back to Iraq and exchange it, which is a pain and costs them money. So if they charge a 40% spread for this (why wouldn't they, that's what they were charging in the first place, on the other end of the transaction), then your 854 USD worth of dinar, which you paid 1200 for, becomes 512 USD worth of dinar. You lost almost 700 USD, almost 60%.

Whereas if you took your dinar right now, and sold it on eBay (or even on this forum), you could get 1100 USD for it, pretty easily. If you're willing to take some time and break it up into small lots you could probably do even better. I'm looking at a few auctions for 50k dinar (2x25,000) that have sold for 66 USD. That would actually be a 100 USD or so PROFIT if they sold right now.

And who knows for sure what will happen if they lop. Could they close the borders? Possibly. I wouldn't put it past them, would you? If that happens, instead of losing 400 bucks on your 4 million dinar, you just lost all of it. $4800. Even if they don't close the borders, I don't think it's guaranteed there'll be an easy to get your money back out. Almost all real banks don't deal with the dinar now, they're certainly not going to want to deal with the old currency if it lops. You'll almost certainly be stuck with the dinar dealers, who are going to charge you a huge spread (they charged you 40% when they didn't have you over a barrel, how much are they going to charge when they do? 50 or 60% or more wouldn't surprise me). And are those dinar dealers going to be able to handle the traffic? The dinar that is in the US has been slowly sold over the last 8 years. Are they going to have the manpower to deal with all those people that bought over 8 years cashing in all at once? Sounds like a mess to me. There would probably be dinar lost, and dinar miscounted, and dinar stolen.

If you were the Iraqi government, or the Iraqi banks, and these people kept coming in with millions and millions of dinar and exchanging them, wouldn't you get a little curious? Think maybe they're terrorists? There's trillions of dinar in the US, on that everyone seems to agree. That's billions of USD worth of dinar that's going to need to get shipped over to Iraq and cashed in. It's going to create problems. Exchanging USD for dinar right now in Iraq is easy. The Iraqi banks love having USD, it adds to their foreign reserves. Are they going to love handing out their foreign reserves in huge chunks after a lop? I doubt it. Like I said, it's going to create a lot of problems, and problems means $, in the way of a big spread.

So no, if you've stopped drinking the koolaid and have realized that a 10,000% RV isn't possible, and that a 1,000% RV is extremely unlikely (if not impossible) and that it's quite possible that they will lop, it doesn't make sense to stick your dinar in a drawer and forget about it. For someone that has 4 million dinar, doing that could mean the difference between breaking even (at most losing 400 bucks, but maybe even making a small profit if they put some effort into it), and losing about 2800 USD, or even losing it all.

Wow this thread really jumped the shark! We go from selling Dinars to closing the boarders. WOW! Very creative!

First off you are 100% wrong about TD Bank. They are no longer (at least for now) in the business of SELLING Dinars. They will buy them back but not sell them. The $850/mil figure if THEIR rate and has less than nothing to do with the notion of reselling them.

Sadly, there is no Kool-Aid in my fridge.

Try this on for size, you might like it...How about Iraq milks this out until 2013 (satisfying the 10 year rule) and completely changes the currency and declares OUR IQD is null and void. Then our 'imported toilet paper' can the flushed. You wanna sell your stuff, go for it. If you really need the money--got for it. I don't. I can wait it out and if I lose my $4 grand so be it. Won't affect my life one bit! That's why I got into this deal. If it hits, great for me. If not...oh well. I've lost more over a weekend at AC.

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I believe that the folks who are selling their IQD now, have gotten themselves a little overextended. The Holidays are upon us and folks need money to buy ingredients for meals and gifts for Christmas. There's always a money crunch in Nov.-Dec.......plus, the economy is tight . Just my take on things I've noticed happening like clockwork for many, many moons...................

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It appears from the developments of the last 6 months that dinar holders will have to wait until sometime in 2013 (at the very earliest) to see an RV. Unlike the 'opinion' that the owner of this site is advancing, there is NO evidence that we'll see something this Thanksgiving (or by next Thanksgiving for that matter). The owner of this site has given no supporting evidence of this claim. If I were speaking with him personally, I'd ask him to cite two sources that show any indication that the IQD will RV this year. There is no evidence, just ginned up hope.

The withdrawal of US Troops should bode well for the IQD investment as it will require the Iraqis to put up or shut up (or be overrun by Iran, if possible). I expect Iraq to stand well on her own with the US still heavily participating behind the curtain. Once/If it appears that Iraq can stand on her own, then you may be able to speculate about the strengthening of the currency. Realistically, it's hard to imagine that any stability can really be gauged in less than 12 months. Therefore, the idea that -- at the earliest -- we are looking at 2013. Even then, the speculated amount, by the owner of this site, of a dime or more is probably generous. You can forget your fantasies of $3 anytime soon (soon meaning at least 10 years), especially if you mix in the forthcoming worldwide depression (some say we are already in that depression). A full scale world wide depression means LESS economic activity and MORE uncertainty. Energy prices fall dramatically when serious recession hits, let alone depression.

So ... the possible answer to the question of the original poster is that there is SO much secondhand dinar out there held by people that are in over their head that if one wants to divest of IQD now, there will be ample opportunity to get back in during the next 12-18 months (or longer). For those holding thousands to tens of thousands of dollars worth of IQD, what's the difference? One can put that money somewhere else for the near to medium term, then get back in ... pretty simple. Simple supply and demand. The future will have ample supply of reasonably or cheaply priced IQD if anyone wants it. Yes, I'm still holding some and will continue to do so, even though I've lightened up a bit.

My personal point of view is that there will be no increase in the value of the IQD until 2014 -2015 -- a gut feeling you might say, based on watching the machinations of this adventure for almost two years now.

Ask yourself what your gut feeling is as to why the owner of this site would advance his 'rate talk' NOW? Yes, you are probably correct on that 'read' ...

Best wishes for great health and prosperity for everyone,

TS

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