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What Social Ramifications does non-belief have on society?


Tiffany23
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The safest countries in the world are positively correlated with Atheism

Education & Intelligence is positively correlated with Non-Belief

Atheists are less likely to be criminals

Atheists have lower homicide rates

Atheists have lower poverty levels

Atheists have lower infant mortality rates

Atheists have low illiteracy rates

Atheists are less likely to divorce

Atheists have higher educational attainment

Atheists have higher gender equality

Majority (up to 93%) of our brightest individuals (scientist) don’t believe in God

Atheism is growing:

1990- 7.5% of US were nonreligious

2001= 13.2%

2008 – 16.1%

25% of Americans age 18-29 are not currently affiliated with any particular religion

48% of Europeans don’t believe in God

56% of Europeans age 15-24 don’t believe in a God

74% of Britain do not believe in a personal God

Peace

Tiff :)

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I could not help but notice that in all the statistics in which you gave an age range, that it is the younger, least life-experienced crowd that doesn't have a belief in God. Nobody listed over...29 years old!!! I guess it's a good thing that God gives us on the average over 70 years to figure it out. :)

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"My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? …Of course, I could have given up my idea of justice by saying that it was nothing but a private idea of my own [relativism]. But if I did that, then my argument against God collapsed too--for the argument depended on saying that the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my private fancies. Thus in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist--in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless [nihilism]--I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality--namely my idea of justice--was full of sense. Consequently atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be without meaning." (“Mere Christianity”, C.S. Lewis)

"The very impossibility in which I find myself to prove that God is not, discovers to me his existence." François-Marie (Voltaire) Arouet – 1694-1778

‎"To believe in God is impossible not to believe in Him is absurd." François-Marie(Voltaire) Arouet – 1694-1778

Edited by AoK
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Well. Tiff. You may not believe in God but He certainly believes in you. Fact is if you look at the prophesies of the old testament... I.e. Daniel....etc. And then you compare that with the emergence of Jesus. Who proclaimed himself to be the full representation of God. The likelyhood that someone could claim that and fulfill all of the prophesies (not just a couple) of the old testament and conquer death is Trillions, and trillions, and trillions and trillions and trillions....(need I go on) to one. Jesus came not to condemn but to seek and to save that which was lost. It takes more faith to believe in true athiesm than to believe in God.

Stephen Hawking (one of the most brilliant minds today) proclaimed that for the existence of the universe there didn't necessarily have to be a creator, because it could have come about by itself. I say to that then that I think that his published book should be free to me because based on that thinking it also could have just come together by itself.

Look around you. All nature proclaims the evidence of design. I think if everyone treated everyone else as they would like to be treated our world would be a lot better place. We must all face death and then? What, just blackness? Nothing? Then nothing really means anything. Only what society has taught you. Why then not throw off the restraints of society and live without morals? Get all for yourself that you can because when it's over it means nothing. But, in fact God does exist in each and every one of us. When someone does you wrong and you are offended or hurt. Why is that? If there are no rules then what does it matter? Fact is right and wrong are inherent to all of us. One of my best friends is an athiest. He remains like you said one of the better people that I know. Better than most christians that I know. It still does not change the fact that God exists. The good news is He is for us and not against us. God speed to you.

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Colt23, very well written. Dr. Roy B. Zuck wrote, "the Old Testament foretold 700 years BEFORE Jesus' birth everything about him. (If only 48 propecies about a person were fulfilled, the odds would be 1 in 10x157)---that's one followed by 157 zeroes. Jesus fulfilled over 300 prophecies. Tiff23, Psalm 14 says "the fool says in his heart there is no God."

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The safest countries in the world are positively correlated with Atheism

Education & Intelligence is positively correlated with Non-Belief

Atheists are less likely to be criminals

Atheists have lower homicide rates

Atheists have lower poverty levels

Atheists have lower infant mortality rates

Atheists have low illiteracy rates

Atheists are less likely to divorce

Atheists have higher educational attainment

Atheists have higher gender equality

Majority (up to 93%) of our brightest individuals (scientist) don’t believe in God

Atheism is growing:

1990- 7.5% of US were nonreligious

2001= 13.2%

2008 – 16.1%

25% of Americans age 18-29 are not currently affiliated with any particular religion

48% of Europeans don’t believe in God

56% of Europeans age 15-24 don’t believe in a God

74% of Britain do not believe in a personal God

Peace

Tiff :)

Tiffiney, I have a question to ask you if you are willing to make a stab at the answer. It is not one in which you need to study, have a degree of any kind, it is just one to ponder and then give me an answer. I’m going to tell a story and then ask the question. The question is based on the story so you will need to read that first.

A man in the neighborhood (any neighborhood) use to have the Boy Scouts come to his house for their weekly meetings. He was well known in the community for his service, his friendliness, and his kindness to strangers. When the man was 52 years old he was arrested for molesting and raping one of the boys. On further investigation it was discovered that some 200 boys over 25 years had been sexually molested or raped. After the encounters the man would threaten the boys that he would kill their family if they ever found out. This man showed no remorse in what he had done. His only regret is that he was caught.

Now the question, was what this man did wicked? Was this man wicked?(You don’t need to go to the Atheist websites for your answer.)

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Well. Tiff. You may not believe in God but He certainly believes in you. Fact is if you look at the prophesies of the old testament... I.e. Daniel....etc. And then you compare that with the emergence of Jesus. Who proclaimed himself to be the full representation of God. The likelyhood that someone could claim that and fulfill all of the prophesies (not just a couple) of the old testament and conquer death is Trillions, and trillions, and trillions and trillions and trillions....(need I go on) to one. Jesus came not to condemn but to seek and to save that which was lost. It takes more faith to believe in true athiesm than to believe in God.

Stephen Hawking (one of the most brilliant minds today) proclaimed that for the existence of the universe there didn't necessarily have to be a creator, because it could have come about by itself. I say to that then that I think that his published book should be free to me because based on that thinking it also could have just come together by itself.

Look around you. All nature proclaims the evidence of design. I think if everyone treated everyone else as they would like to be treated our world would be a lot better place. We must all face death and then? What, just blackness? Nothing? Then nothing really means anything. Only what society has taught you. Why then not throw off the restraints of society and live without morals? Get all for yourself that you can because when it's over it means nothing. But, in fact God does exist in each and every one of us. When someone does you wrong and you are offended or hurt. Why is that? If there are no rules then what does it matter? Fact is right and wrong are inherent to all of us. One of my best friends is an athiest. He remains like you said one of the better people that I know. Better than most christians that I know. It still does not change the fact that God exists. The good news is He is for us and not against us. God speed to you.

Intelligent and well said...I think everyone should be able worship/believe in whatever gives them comfort and peace, so long as it DOES NOT infringe upon others freedoms and beliefs, NO MATTER WHAT they choose to believe in, be it Atheism, or Christianity. We as human beings and especially as Americans, have FAR MORE in common than just ideology, and should focus on the positive aspects that bind us, to not only to strengthen, but advance our society as well.

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Tiffiney, I have a question to ask you if you are willing to make a stab at the answer. It is not one in which you need to study, have a degree of any kind, it is just one to ponder and then give me an answer. I’m going to tell a story and then ask the question. The question is based on the story so you will need to read that first.

A man in the neighborhood (any neighborhood) use to have the Boy Scouts come to his house for their weekly meetings. He was well known in the community for his service, his friendliness, and his kindness to strangers. When the man was 52 years old he was arrested for molesting and raping one of the boys. On further investigation it was discovered that some 200 boys over 25 years had been sexually molested or raped. After the encounters the man would threaten the boys that he would kill their family if they ever found out. This man showed no remorse in what he had done. His only regret is that he was caught.

Now the question, was what this man did wicked? Was this man wicked?(You don’t need to go to the Atheist websites for your answer.)

Nelg...before I answer your question, willing to answer mine first? If someone is personally responsible for killing up to 80 million people in just one year (many millions of those innocent children), is that person wicked? And furthermore, while he was killing those 80 million, he did not kill the one person that only 20 years later would be responsible for the Genocide of 6 million other people and the largest War in Human History?

Or say, instead it was a natural cause (say a pandemic) that was killing these people and that one person could instantly not only stop the killing but actually bring back the dead...and yet, did nothing. Would you consider that person to be wicked?

Don't go to google..but I will give you a hint: 1918

Kind of a bummer to spare with someone with a high IQ and knowledge of history ain't it, Sugar? :)

Edited by Tiffany23
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Colt23, very well written. Dr. Roy B. Zuck wrote, "the Old Testament foretold 700 years BEFORE Jesus' birth everything about him. (If only 48 propecies about a person were fulfilled, the odds would be 1 in 10x157)---that's one followed by 157 zeroes. Jesus fulfilled over 300 prophecies. Tiff23, Psalm 14 says "the fool says in his heart there is no God."

Thank you. The movie or book "case for Christ" is a good one. It is a true account of an athiest and his research into whether or not there is a God. He eventually, cannot refute the fact that it is true. Jesus... Is alive. He becomes a believer.

I find it incredibly Ironic....... today that more than 2000 years ago a man lived and died and people say that they don't believe in Him or in God. (which is the same thing) and yet what is the first thing out of their mouths when the get mad or want to cuss or whatever. They don't say Baal damn it, Or..... Budda damn it... or Lucifer.... or whatever. They say His name. :)

Think of this. The apostles were some of the first doubters. Jesus' brother thought he was nuts. They were all skeptical. Paul persecuted and killed christians.........And when Jesus died on the cross they scattered, were afraid, went into hiding. But, then what happened. It didn't die away. He rose again. He appeared to all of His apostles and to hundreds more. Then get this... these doubting followers suddenly stood up and had incredible faith. Proclaiming the gospel to anyone who would listen. They almost all died a martyrs death. Why would that be? If He had not rose again and appeared to them. What would make any of them do this? One day I will be able to see but now I only see dimly. God speed to you.

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Nelg...before I answer your question, willing to answer mine first? If someone is personally responsible for killing up to 80 million people in just one year (many millions of those innocent children), is that person wicked? And furthermore, while he was killing those 80 million, he did not kill the one person that only 20 years later would be responsible for the Genocide of 6 million other people and the largest War in Human History?

Or say, instead it was a natural cause (say a pandemic) that was killing these people and that one person could instantly not only stop the killing but actually bring back the dead...and yet, did nothing. Would you consider that person to be wicked?

Don't go to google..but I will give you a hint: 1918

Kind of a bummer to spare with someone with a high IQ and knowledge of history ain't it, Sugar? :)

It is wicked and now answer my question.

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Nelg...before I answer your question, willing to answer mine first? If someone is personally responsible for killing up to 80 million people in just one year (many millions of those innocent children), is that person wicked? And furthermore, while he was killing those 80 million, he did not kill the one person that only 20 years later would be responsible for the Genocide of 6 million other people and the largest War in Human History?

Or say, instead it was a natural cause (say a pandemic) that was killing these people and that one person could instantly not only stop the killing but actually bring back the dead...and yet, did nothing. Would you consider that person to be wicked?

Don't go to google..but I will give you a hint: 1918

Kind of a bummer to spare with someone with a high IQ and knowledge of history ain't it, Sugar? :)

Miss 23,

Are you just here to try to stir things up? I realize this is an off topic section, but this is a dinar site. Could you give us any of your "highly educated" insight on the dinar and Iraq? I have read some of your posts, and "Sugar" you just aren't that bright!!

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[

Don't go to google..but I will give you a hint: 1918

Kind of a bummer to spare with someone with a high IQ and knowledge of history ain't it, Sugar? :)

For having a HIGH IQ... I think the word your looking for is to spar... Not spare... Heads up before you talk about your intellectual abilities...

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What social Ramifications does non belief have on society??????

I would have to say many, You see most religions have their own ramifications, that is sin, the fear of breaking a said commandment or what have you, is in essence what helps to keep people on the straight and narrow, I believe if you took a poll of people in prison I would have to guess 90% of them have no religion, These are violent people, people you would never want to meet. I will not argue that scientist are non believers and are very smart, but that's cuz scientist look for absolute truth, they need to touch it, they need to see and smell it, so their belief is only altered by their own rational. I will not argue that almost all wars have religious under tones about them, and I cannot tell you why God lets good people die, And I will admit there have been times in my own life where I have posed the question, why? All I know is this, I see a baby laugh, I feel a warm breeze coming thru the tree's, I know God did this. Only someone greater than us can create you and cause you to feel the great emotions that we feel over a life time. Lets be realistic we can find stats for anything, and I'am sure your alot smarter than me,{ I'am not trying to be sarcastic either} But sometimes logic is a word that in my opinion should be left alone when it comes to somethings, and those somethings are Faith.... Ok, now can we get this fn Dinar thing to pop? Sorry, had to lighten it up... But come on already...... take care.

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Nelg...before I answer your question, willing to answer mine first? If someone is personally responsible for killing up to 80 million people in just one year (many millions of those innocent children), is that person wicked? And furthermore, while he was killing those 80 million, he did not kill the one person that only 20 years later would be responsible for the Genocide of 6 million other people and the largest War in Human History?

Or say, instead it was a natural cause (say a pandemic) that was killing these people and that one person could instantly not only stop the killing but actually bring back the dead...and yet, did nothing. Would you consider that person to be wicked?

Don't go to google..but I will give you a hint: 1918

Kind of a bummer to spare with someone with a high IQ and knowledge of history ain't it, Sugar? smile.gif

No He's Merciful. th_smiley_two_thumbs_up.gif

What happens to Infants and Children Who Die? Do Babies Go To Heaven?

by Rich Deem

Introduction

Do all babies who die go to heaven? Or has God predestined some for heaven, while the rest go to hell? Does the Bible address this issue at all or do we just hope that they go to heaven to comfort ourselves?

Judgment for all

First we must note that the Bible says God will judge all people,1 so this must include babies and young children. How does God judge between one baby and another? Does He judge by how much they cry or spit up? Since God is omniscient (all knowing),2 does He judge on the basis of what they would have done had they lived an entire life? This would seem to be a perplexing problem and the Bible does not describe anywhere how God would judge a baby. Or does it?

Babies are sinners

Making matters worse, is the fact that the Bible says all people are sinners.3 In fact, the Bible specifically states that people are sinners from their birth,4 so this obviously includes babies. The Bible also indicates that those who sin and don't accept Jesus as their Savior are judged5 and sentenced to death6 - the so-called "second death," which is hell.7 So, do all babies and children who haven't accepted Jesus as Savior go to hell?

Babies are innocent

The Bible makes it clear that people are condemned to hell on the basis of their sins8 and their rejection of Jesus Christ9 as the remedy for their sinful condition. However, infants and young children are incapable of fully understanding either their spiritual condition or God's requirements for salvation. Can God judge them even though they don't understand the basis of that judgment? The Bible does indicate that children are innocent, for example, when describing how some of the Israelites in the Valley of Benhinnom had become corrupt so as to sacrifice their own (innocent) children:

"Because they have forsaken Me and have made this an alien place and have burned sacrifices in it to other gods, that neither they nor their forefathers nor the kings of Judah had ever known, and because they have filled this place with the blood of the innocent and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, a thing which I never commanded or spoke of, nor did it ever enter My mind; (Jeremiah 19:4-5)

The Bible also indicates that children are regarded as being innocent because of their lack of ability to discern between good and evil:

Moreover, your little ones who you said would become a prey, and your sons, who this day have no knowledge of good or evil, shall enter there, and I will give it to them and they shall possess it. (Deuteronomy 1:39)

Other verses also indicate that young children are not fully capable of making moral choices.10 So, the Bible says that babies and children are innocent, based upon their inability to fully understand the difference between good and evil.

Do babies go to heaven?

So, since babies and children are considered innocent, one would assume that they would be excluded from judgment and get a pass to heaven. However, does the Bible explicitly state what happens to them? A verse from Job says that they enter into rest:

"Or like a miscarriage which is discarded, I would not be, As infants that never saw light. There the wicked cease from raging, And there the weary are at rest. (Job 3:16-17)

Likewise, another verse suggests that a person who is not satisfied with their life is worse off than one who is miscarried.11 Although it does not explicitly state what happens to the miscarried, the assumption would be that they went to heaven.

Children belong to God

Both the Old and New Testaments indicate that God has a special relationship with children. In the book of Ezekiel, God was very upset with His people as they were sacrificing their children to idols. However, God calls them "My children":

"Moreover, you took your sons and daughters whom you had borne to Me and sacrificed them to idols to be devoured. Were your harlotries so small a matter? You slaughtered My children and offered them up to idols by causing them to pass through the fire." (Ezekiel 16:20-21)

Jesus indicated that people who enter heaven are like children, implying that children go to heaven.

  • And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, and said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 18:2-3)
  • Then some children were brought to Him so that He might lay His hands on them and pray; and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, "Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." (Matthew 19:13-14)

So, the Bible indicates quite clearly that children who die go to heaven. However, the question remains at what age an individual ceases to be a child.

Age of accountability?

So, we know that babies and children go to heaven when they die. However, we don't know what the cutoff is for those who die young. Is it 5, or 8,or 12 years old? The Bible makes no mention of any kind of "age of accountability." So, it is quite likely that there is no specific age at which an individual become accountable. Our three sons all accepted Jesus as their Savior around five years old. However, they had been exposed to the gospel message since birth, and had gone to Sunday School, Bible studies, vacation Bible schools, and Awana in their early years. We never asked them if they wanted to be Christians, but allowed them to ask the question on their own. Five years old is probably not the average age at which children are capable of understanding the gospel and responding to it. Having taught vacation Bible school and Sunday school for many years, I recognize that the average first grader is not taking in the information and processing it for how it applies to him. However, when the time comes, one can see the light come on. In one of the vacation Bible school assemblies, I recall a group of boys (probably around 10 years old) who were in attendance as a gospel presentation was being made. One of the boys suddenly said to the others, "Did you hear what she said?," in an excited voice. An alter call had been made, and he dashed up to the front. His friends were left sitting in the pew. So, I have seen many children at many different levels of spiritual and physical development, which must be the basis by which God determines if they are accountable. For those with mental disabilities, it is possible that they never become morally accountable. However, we can be assured that God judges all people, including children, fairly.12

Does it matter if they're baptized?

Some denominations baptize their infants in the belief that such baptism prevents them from going to hell should they die before coming to faith in Christ. However, what about babies who are miscarried or die during childbirth? Are they condemned to hell? That is what the doctrine of infant baptism would imply. So, the doctrine of infant baptism changes salvation from one of grace to one of works, since infant baptism is a work of the parent, and not a work of God. As such, the practice of infant baptism displays a lack in trust of God as the bearer of salvation, so must be rejected as being an efficacious act. So, being baptized as an infant saves neither an infant nor an adult. Salvation is still a gift13 of God based upon the grace of God.14 Biblical baptism is the public confession of faith by an accountable individual.15 So, we reject infant baptism as being required for the salvation of babies and young children who die.

Conclusion up1.gif

Babies and young children who die go the heaven through the grace and righteous judgment of God. The Bible is clear that those who are not fully capable of making moral choices are declared to be innocent, and, therefore, worthy of heaven. The Bible does not mention any kind of "age of accountability," but bases accountability on the basis of the ability to make moral choices. Infant baptism, although it shows a commitment from the parent, is neither required nor efficacious in obtaining salvation for little ones. The salvation of babies and children is a gift of God, based upon His grace, and cannot be purchased through a work of a parent. If you have lost an infant or child, we pray that the Lord would comfort you with His grace, and that you would desire to join your child in heaven through a confession of faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. May God bless you.

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Kind of a bummer to spare with someone with a high IQ and knowledge of history ain't it, Sugar? :)

Seems to me that someone with SUCH a high IQ would know the difference between spare and spar.

And if you ever decide to get off of your high horse, and realize that not everyone on this site thinks that you are the genius you obviously believe you are, you might be better received.

Your condescending..............no one is better than me...............I know ALL attitude is your downfall.

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It seems to me that some times the hardest thing to do is put aside your personal beliefs and simply allow for anothers.

If we all practiced this act there would truely be world peace. We cling so tight to our view of this world that we dont allow others the same.

We are all in this world for a specific (and based on the time this world has already been here) short time, let's try to get along.

Peace...

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What social Ramifications does non belief have on society??????

I would have to say many, You see most religions have their own ramifications, that is sin, the fear of breaking a said commandment or what have you, is in essence what helps to keep people on the straight and narrow, I believe if you took a poll of people in prison I would have to guess 90% of them have no religion, These are violent people, people you would never want to meet. I will not argue that scientist are non believers and are very smart, but that's cuz scientist look for absolute truth, they need to touch it, they need to see and smell it, so their belief is only altered by their own rational. I will not argue that almost all wars have religious under tones about them, and I cannot tell you why God lets good people die, And I will admit there have been times in my own life where I have posed the question, why? All I know is this, I see a baby laugh, I feel a warm breeze coming thru the tree's, I know God did this. Only someone greater than us can create you and cause you to feel the great emotions that we feel over a life time. Lets be realistic we can find stats for anything, and I'am sure your alot smarter than me,{ I'am not trying to be sarcastic either} But sometimes logic is a word that in my opinion should be left alone when it comes to somethings, and those somethings are Faith.... Ok, now can we get this fn Dinar thing to pop? Sorry, had to lighten it up... But come on already...... take care.

The baby was created by to mammals, human beings, having sexual intercourse, no? The breeze was a breeze. Seabreeze? Baybreeze? Front coming through? I dig your faith. Nothing wrong with it. But in todays world, there are explanations for most everything except for proof of jesus ever walking the earth, and an invisible man in the sky. And what pisses me off the most, is that many christian/catholics STRONGLY believe that if you don't believe in jesus/god, etc; you're gonna be damned to hell. BS!!!! Those crazy, violent buddhists better convert if they only knew what's waiting for them at death. Not one shred of evidence that this magical man ever walked the earth. I don't mean to direct this all at you, but I just wanted to throw in my two cents. I'm gonna post this link. Have a look if you like. I'm sure i'll be negged off of this site in no time just cause most folks don't respect another angle unless it agrees with theirs. That is the most ignorant that one can be. The my way or the highway personality. Again, not putting you down, just wanted to argue my case. Cheers. My link

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The baby was created by to mammals, human beings, having sexual intercourse, no? The breeze was a breeze. Seabreeze? Baybreeze? Front coming through? I dig your faith. Nothing wrong with it. But in todays world, there are explanations for most everything except for proof of jesus ever walking the earth, and an invisible man in the sky. And what pisses me off the most, is that many christian/catholics STRONGLY believe that if you don't believe in jesus/god, etc; you're gonna be damned to hell. BS!!!! Those crazy, violent buddhists better convert if they only knew what's waiting for them at death. Not one shred of evidence that this magical man ever walked the earth. I don't mean to direct this all at you, but I just wanted to throw in my two cents. I'm gonna post this link. Have a look if you like. I'm sure i'll be negged off of this site in no time just cause most folks don't respect another angle unless it agrees with theirs. That is the most ignorant that one can be. The my way or the highway personality. Again, not putting you down, just wanted to argue my case. Cheers. My link

While I do respect your right to your own beliefs, if I as a Christian am wrong and you are right...then what? We are all destined to die and thats it. If I believe that by living as a Christian and obeying the Word of God will allow me eternal life in a place called Heaven, that is a hope of something better than what this world offers. If I am wrong what did I lose by living a clean, honest life? According to your belief I will end my life in the same state as you. If I am right, then your eternity will be very different than mine. Why does the Christian belief anger you? Because you can't do it your way? That attitude started in the garden of Eden. Some things never change, and God gives us a choice to serve him or to not serve him.

I notice all other forms of religions seem to get a free pass from so called atheists, for some reason Christianity inspires such anger and hostility from non-believers.

What kind of proof do you need of whether Jesus walked the earth, I have never heard anyone question his existence here on earth, just his deity.

Since when do we need to specifically see something to know it is true? You sit down on chairs everyday not knowing if they can support your weight yet you have "faith" that they will. We just happen to have faith in an invisible God.

The scriptures in the old Testament speak about our world being suspended on nothing. Not flat as was believed for many centuries after the old scriptures were written. Man did not come upon this wisdom all by himself. God spoke to man and gave wisdom and knowledge. The new testament speaks about how we know that things appear that are made by things that do not appear. How would the Apostles of the new Testament know this, without the use of a microscope to see the molecular structure of objects? God gives us knowledge, that is how.

The popular belief for so called atheists now days seems to be that we are our own Gods. We can control this planet we live on, ie...global warming...blah blah blah. That is a lie from the devil, who by the way thought himself to be a god.

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Bill,

I won't presume to answer for oneguy...but I can share my thoughts. What you are addressing is basically Pascal's wager . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

As a skeptic, I'll be honest, that line of rational kept me "humble" for a good many years. But, here are some thought on a counter argument:

1. PW does not address which God is the one and only true God. As mentioned in several of my postings, how can a Christian be so sure that he has the right God? The Hindu Gods are almost as prevalent (over 1 Billion believers). Jesus may be right for you, but is not right for others.

2. Your posting seems to indicate that non-believers can not live an equally good life. I think this postings and other's by Tiff show that non belief has little to do with how "well or honest" one lives. That is, non believers can live just as good of a life as believers.

3. This is my big one...I am more interested in finding out the Truth, regardless of what that Truth is. If there is a GOD, I want to know, if there is NOT a God, I want to know that as well. Can Christians honestly say the same, that is, does the Truth transcend your Faith? Are you open to hearing the evidence that support another religion and/or that no God exists. Or is your mind closed?

I'm leaning to the facts that support that one's beliefs are more of a product of one's surroundings. That is, how many Christians in America change over to Hinduism? How many Buddhist in China change over to Islam? Rarely.....I believe Tiffany quoted only 4% of people ever change Religion from what their society is.

Which leads to why you may feel that Christians are "picked on" by Atheist. I think that may be the case because Americans are predominately Christians, so the message is out to the biggest audience. Just my twocents.

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