This Is VERY interesting!!

[Rossenbos]

I wonder, if all the countries are broke, who owns the debt?

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We do! The people.

The only economical value that exists is OUR Value. Not a clump of iron ore. Or oil. Or fish. Or gold even.

It's all because of WHAT WE DO WITH IT.

So, every human being on Earth (if registered) has a bond behind his name, traded on the stock exchange by the IMF cabal.

Fiat money is backed by us.

Government serve US (well, they should).

It's

GOD

MEN

GOVERNMENTS

CORPORATIONS/INSTITUTIONS

In that order.

We are above the governments but we let them rule us, as they turned us into dead corporations.

[Nelg]

We can either choose to be a victim or responsible. Responsible = Response Able or the Ability to Respond

For example: With FOREX, you can profit when a currency rises, and you can also profit when a currency declines. I am not saying to go start "day trading" as you will probably lose all of your money if you don't know what you are doing. What I am saying is take responsibility, don't be a victim, and look for ways to profit from any situation that arises.

I believe the Dinar will RV but I won't let the potential RV be my one and only hope in life. It is not my savior, it is a speculative investment that required no work on my behalf. It is a "set it and forget it" type of transaction. All we can do is wait, in the meantime, it would be wise to keep looking for other investments, learn how to protect your money, keep your money, and make your money grow.

My post was not meant to be pessimistic. Just responding to what was in the post. I really have no desire to speculate in stocks, currency, or commodities to become wealthy. Once this ride is over when the RV occurs, I plan to give 1/4 the money away, put most into annuities that bear interest, and spend the rest. But what will I do for my retiring years?! I'm there. If I'm lucky I have about 15 years left. I'm 70 pushing 71 and money is not that important. My relationship with God and my family are. If I miss that, I've missed it all.

[20MillionDinar]

My post was not meant to be pessimistic. Just responding to what was in the post. I really have no desire to speculate in stocks, currency, or commodities to become wealthy. Once this ride is over when the RV occurs, I plan to give 1/4 the money away, put most into annuities that bear interest, and spend the rest. But what will I do for my retiring years?! I'm there. If I'm lucky I have about 15 years left. I'm 70 pushing 71 and money is not that important. My relationship with God and my family are. If I miss that, I've missed it all.

Nelg,

I completely understand what you are saying. Maybe what I posted above could benefit a few others. Have a great day!

[dtard]

I wonder, if all the countries are broke, who owns the debt?

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The People....

[Markinsa]

The People....

Dueteronomy 15: 1

1“At the end of every seventh year you must cancel the debts of everyone who owes you money.

[abby01]

Thank you 20milliondinar man! I appreciate your thoughts.

[leanonme]

The way I see it. Gold or silver sounds pretty good to hold in your hands instead of a printed picture of a dead president.

[uncirculd]

The two groups who own most of the debt are: 1) Private investors, many of whom are retired on fixed-incomes, just like Americans who own T-bills and savings bonds, 2) Other banks, both private and central. This is where the crunch comes. When Greece defaults, other large European banks, who are already hanging by a thread from a capital standpoint, lose billions, and then when they default, the American banks, who are already hanging by a thread from a capital standpoint, lost billions. And at some point, there's nobody left to bail anyone out. Elderly get hosed. Banks get hosed. People and businesses can't borrow so the economy can't grow. Tax revenues go down. Governments go broke. And the whole cycle starts over again. Apart from massive currency exchange rate adjustments and international forgiveness of debt, we're all in trouble. Sorry, but let's wake up and smell the money burning................

So true to the bone. It would be terrible bad if the RV came and we cashed in on worthless US Fed Reserve Currency. (Debt Currency). Funny huh, you pay debt with debt. You pay your mortage with

cash, and that cash you used is not paid for yet. They should have let the banks fail in the beginning. Let the fittest survive. But no, we could not have that. We have too much invested in those banks. I bet they all dumped their stocks after bailout. Losers. They will see in the end that they just crushed capitalism at it's best. All their money stashed over seas will do nothing for them. People will be able to manage in the wild, but them who have a silver spoon at birth will be lost.

Then watch our government. Desperate times calls for desperate measures. They will make laws that will be unpopular, because they only want one thing. Power and Money. They go hand in hand. In those times will it be horrible. Even our own leaders will be pulled from ditches. Well maybe not, but I don't see it getting any better any time soon..

[DinarBot]

October 23, 2011: The Next Big Day of Reckoning

Martin D. Weiss Ph.D. | Monday, October 17, 2011

This coming Sunday, October 23, will go down in history as one of the most important days of the 21st century.

On that day, the leaders of 27 European countries will meet. They will announce a new master plan to save Europe. And then they will pray.

If their plan is not good enough, U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner warns that Europe — and the entire world — could face “cascading default,” “bank runs,” and “catastrophic risk.”

Polish Finance Minister Jacek Rostowski says the euro-zone crisis is already suffering “a run on the sovereigns” — a mass exodus by investors from sovereign bonds.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy and German Chancellor Angela Merkel also openly admit the vast challenges they face. They know they have just six days left. And they know that before their time is up, they must find a way to …

• put Greece out of its misery with an “orderly default” …

• expand the firepower of Europe’s bailout fund for Spain, Italy and other European countries on a collision course with default, and …

• pump massive amounts of capital into European megabanks on the brink of collapse.

On October 23, Europe’s leaders hope they can do ALL this in one fell swoop.

But don’t be fooled!

Any New European Rescue Plan, No Matter How Big and Bold, Is Bound Cause an Even Greater Debt Catastrophe

Here’s why …

First, they’re running out of time! The crisis is already too far gone — Greek bonds trading at 40 cents on the dollar, Spain and Italy in a death spiral, and massive damage to the continent’s megabanks already done.

They can’t turn back the clock. And they’re nearly out of time.

Second, not enough money! The PIIGS countries alone have over $4 trillion in debts, much of which they’ll never be able to repay. And Europe’s troubled banks have far more.

This leaves a gaping hole that’s so large, even the richest countries in the world could not possibly fill it without gutting their own finances.

In fact, European leaders are trying so desperately to figure out where to get all that money, they’ve even asked emerging market countries to chip in.

Third, no way to stop a vicious cycle already in motion! Before they can get a dime of bailout money, the PIIGS countries must promise to drastically reduce their budget deficits.

Result: They’re forced to cut their government spending, crush their economy, kill their corporate profits, drive down their tax revenues, and, in the end, create even larger deficits.

This is why Greece is sinking so fast. And this is why, despite its Draconian austerity measures, Greece’s deficit for the first nine months of 2011 actually GREW to 19.2 billion euros, compared to 16.65 billion euros last year.

And this is also why we’re seeing similar vicious cycles in nearly every borrower that may need a bailout — not just banks but entire nations … not merely countries like Greece and Portugal, but also far larger economies like Spain and Italy … not just PIIGS countries, but also countries in Eastern Europe and elsewhere.

Fourth, expect many more credit downgrades!

As I showed you here last week, the countries and institutions downgraded by the major credit agencies in the last two weeks alone have $7.3 trillion in debts outstanding (see chart below).

Countries and Institutions Downgraded in

Past Two Weeks Alone Have At Least

$7.3 Trillion in Total Debts Outstanding

But the most shocking news about this crisis is not how often banks and governments have already been downgraded … it’s how many MORE deep downgrades are now on the way!

How do we know?

Because the credit agencies themselves have warned that most of the downgraded countries are now on the chopping block for still more rating cuts.

Because the government bonds of countries like Spain and Italy are already trading at prices that imply far lower ratings.

And because the cost of insuring those bonds against default has already surged to levels that also signal far lower ratings.

Moody’s itself admits that these kinds of market indicators can often warn you about coming troubles far sooner than their own ratings!

Hard to believe?

Then look at this chart from Moody’s Analytics (October 6) on the company’s sovereign debt ratings of Greece. (I’ve added the titles, but the underlying chart is from Moody’s.)

The analysts at Moody’s Analytics have plotted Greek bond prices on a scale that reflects the implied rating bond investors are assuming (the green line in the chart).

Plus, they’ve done the same for default insurance premiums on Greek debt (brown line).

Well, guess what! This chart shows that …

1.) Bond investors first “downgraded” Greek debt in a big way back in the fall of 2008.

2.) Default insurance traders followed with their big “downgrade” about a year later, toward the end of 2009.

3.) Moody’s itself didn’t announce its first major downgrade until the late summer of 2010 — nearly two years after the bond markets.

4.) And it wasn’t until this summer — nearly THREE YEARS after the first bond market signal — that Moody’s finally caught up with reality, downgrading Greece to Ca.

We’ve seen a similar pattern of falling behind reality at S&P and Fitch … with their ratings on countries, banks, big manufacturing companies, municipal bond insurers and many more. (For the evidence, see the case studies in my article of May 10, 2010.)

The lessons to be learned: When countries, banks, or any other borrower is in a death spiral …

• Moody’s and the other major rating agencies rarely give an advance warning. Instead, they lag far behind the markets.

• Eventually, they catch up with reality. Unfortunately, however, by that time, the debt is already a disaster zone and most investors have already suffered massive losses.

• If you see a country’s bond prices plunge in the open market, it can be a reliable early indicator of surging default risk.

• And if you see default insurance premiums following a similar pattern, it can be a very reliable confirming indicator. That’s why we report regularly on both here in Money and Markets.

Bottom line: These danger signs are exactly what we’ve been telling you about each week for countries like Spain, Italy, Belgium, France and EVEN GERMANY!

Why is this so important? For one simple reason:

The bigger the rescue package announced on October 23, the bigger the damage to the finances — and to the credit ratings — of the countries that must finance the rescue!

And the more their credit ratings fall, the more expensive it will be for them to raise the money.

Ultimately, even the rescuers will need a bailout of their own, but none will be forthcoming.

This is why the cost of default insurance for France and Germany is now indicating a far higher default risk than it did even during the debt crisis of 2008-2009.

This is why the bonds of most European governments have been plunging in spite — or even because — of the tall promises we’ve been hearing in recent days.

And this, my friend, is why even the “mother of all bailouts” — or whatever is announced on October 23 — cannot, I repeat CANNOT, save Europe or the euro!

Yes, politicians may persuade some folks that they’ve “finally put this crisis to rest,” as they’ve done so many times before.

And yes, Wall Street may rejoice temporarily, as they’ve also done many times before.

But that’s not the same as stability. It’s not even enough to kick the can down the road. Quite the contrary, with both Europe and the U.S. now caught in a great debt trap, all the evidence indicates that the fanfare and hoopla are nothing more than a set-up for the next major collapse.

My recommendations:

Step 1. Consider any stock market rally — in anticipation of, or in reaction to, the October 23 Europe rescue package — a trap to avoid.

Step 2. Use any such rallies as opportunities to SELL your most vulnerable shares.

Step 3. To help determine which of your stocks are likely to be the most vulnerable, use our Weiss Watchdog. You can access it from the menu bar at the top of www.moneyandmarkets.com or you can point your browser to www.weisswatchdog.com.

Step 4. Also use Weiss Watchdog to check the safety of your bank, credit union or insurance company.

Step 5. Once the bulk of your money is secure, think seriously about seeking the massive profit opportunities that can be created by precisely this kind of crisis.

Good luck and God bless!

Martin

Dr. Weiss founded Weiss Research in 1971 and has dedicated the past 40 years to helping millions of average investors find truly safe havens and investments.

He is president of Weiss Ratings, the nation’s leading independent rating agency accepting no fees from rated companies. And he is the chairman of the Sound Dollar Committee, originally founded by his father in 1959 to help President Dwight D. Eisenhower balance the federal budget. His last three books have all been New York Times Bestsellers and his most recent title is The Ultimate Money Guide for Bubbles, Busts, Recesssion and Depression.

http://www.moneyandmarkets.com/october-23-2011-the-next-big-day-of-reckoning-47690

DinarBot sees commodity (Gold Silver) prices dropping. The man at the top of the ladder knows something we don't. Follow the leader. All is well. Stabilization is upon us. Buy bargain stocks now.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/23/markets-precious-idUSL5E7KN1WZ20110923

[Markinsa]

DinarBot sees commodity (Gold Silver) prices dropping. The man at the top of the ladder knows something we don't. Follow the leader. All is well. Stabilization is upon us. Buy bargain stocks now.

http://www.reuters.c...E7KN1WZ20110923

The link is for an article dated September 23, 2011. And please don't reply and quote a long article, in its entirety, if you only have a one line comment about it.

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[WorkerBee]

The link is for an article dated September 23, 2011. And please don't reply and quote a long article, in its entirety, if you only have a one line comment about it.

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Just in case anyone missed it. Thanks Markinsa!

Edited October 23, 2011 by Markinsa
Reduced Font Size so I could read it.

[jakedog]

Nelg,,, Your last line answered your own question,, and with America broke and pulling out of Iraq , what do you think will happen to the RV,, Again ,your last sentice is your answer !!! Are world is in a mess and that is why Iraq is trading there a$$ off to survive and keep going on what they need !!! read the news,, Its all there plain and simple !!!