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Not to be coy but the elites who gave us the Federal Reserve are dead. But I do agree with the rest of your post

I don't believe you understand how an RD or RV work and the distinction between them. It does not matter what Iraq does to its currency as far as a lop or RD. The value against the dollar will not change nor the purchsaing power.

For an expert analysis of this go to the Dinar Perspectives forum under 'Great Debate' and read Brians' responses in this dialogue to Dinar enthusiasts. He is irrefutable and has the most logical and concise grasp on this issue than anyone. It's not even close.

I fully understand the logistic of how a R/D will work... I think you are merely missing my point. A sudden "run-on-the-banks" may occur upon a re-denomination. Foreign (Keyword here is Foreign) Speculators will run to cash out. Why?

We may only have a limited window. As the CBI may accept IQD for a predetermined amount of time, banks here may have a shorter deadline.

Things can change at a moments notice & the CBI could make it so as not to allow any IQD from outside their borders.

You are thinking only the locals from within the country. Yes, they're likely not going to create a "run-on-the-banks.."

However, they may fear this operation and turn to the USD.. Completely abandoning the IQD.

But, I think they're going to imply or use taxation to encourage people to rely on the new lower denoms... Using the older denoms would mean subject of extra taxes.

If the amount in circulation does truely exist.. It would make sense why the Economist with PhD's would say that they're not ready ready to R/D as of yet. Because they may not be able to make it through those foreign speculative IQD holders who will run to their local exchange station to get USD.

2004, when they brought in the IQD, they shut down the borders. I'm sure for those that re-invested, they do not care to go through that moment again and miss out.

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I fully understand the logistic of how a R/D will work... I think you are merely missing my point. A sudden "run-on-the-banks" may occur upon a re-denomination. Foreign (Keyword here is Foreign) Speculators will run to cash out. Why?

We may only have a limited window. As the CBI may accept IQD for a predetermined amount of time, banks here may have a shorter deadline.

Things can change at a moments notice & the CBI could make it so as not to allow any IQD from outside their borders.

You are thinking only the locals from within the country. Yes, they're likely not going to create a "run-on-the-banks.."

However, they may fear this operation and turn to the USD.. Completely abandoning the IQD.

But, I think they're going to imply or use taxation to encourage people to rely on the new lower denoms... Using the older denoms would mean subject of extra taxes.

If the amount in circulation does truely exist.. It would make sense why the Economist with PhD's would say that they're not ready ready to R/D as of yet. Because they may not be able to make it through those foreign speculative IQD holders who will run to their local exchange station to get USD.

2004, when they brought in the IQD, they shut down the borders. I'm sure for those that re-invested, they do not care to go through that moment again and miss out.

OK, don't understand why you say "a run on the bank". Why would there be a run on the banks from anyone inside or outside Iraq? The RD does not change the value of the Dinar which is what you are saying. An RD is simply for convenience sake and for the future growth of Iraq but the value will remain the same throughout. No RV of any kind!!

"redenomination" means they will remove 3 zeroes from notes. So your 25,000 notes will be exchanged for new 25 notes but at a new ratio of say 1.175:1 instead of 1175:1. You won't lose any money (value is retained minus the trading fees), and in the long run you may make some profit if the Dinar appreciates naturally vs the $, but all these "become a millionaire by changing up $1k worth of Dollars for $1k worth of Dinars" "Dinar pumpers" have been lying and scamming people all along with fake invented "intel", etc. A 99,900% profit has never, ever happened in any RV process. Take a look at what the Turkish Lira (6 zeroes removed), Venezuelan Bolivar (went from 2000:1 to 2:1), the pre-Euro (franc, pesetas, deutschemark, etc) to Euro currency changeover went through to understand the process better.

USA : There are $10.2 trillion (last M3 figures) from a country with a population of 310m people. This works out to approx $32,903 printed per American.

Euro : There are €8.5 trillion in existence (ECB M3 figures) from an entire continent with a Euro-using population of 327m people. This works out to approx €26,000 Euro's printed per European.

Iraq : There are 29 trillion Dinar's in existence from a country with a population of 31m (Iraq). This works out to 935,483 Dinar's printed per Iraqi (blatantly obvious hyperinflation).

If you remove 3 digits, yes you get 29bn Dinar but those Dinar will be valued at say 1.17:1 instead of 1,170:1. The dollar value will not change - just as the Iraq Central Bank have openly stated it won't back in April as reported on Iraqi Alsumaria TV. It's only a few vested interested conmen who just happen to sell Dinar who keep pumping the "instant millionaire" nonsense. If holding just $1k worth of Dinar will make you a millionaire, then by extension, you must believe every Iraqi who owns a house / car will be given between $50m-100m each if they sold it and changed the 50m-100m Dinars up at an FX outlet, and that the average $2k-$4k Iraqi income will become $2m-$4m. Um, no. That's not how it works at all.

Countries can't and don't just magic 99,990% more money into thin air through an RD (re-denomination). The "rumored" value of $3-4 you mention was the value of what were known as "Swiss Dinar's" under Saddam Hussein. They got their name from the Swiss printing plates used (which were of much higher standard than the 3rd hand ones Iraq otherwise had), and this was the currency used prior to the 1990 Gulf War (the first one) after which they ceased to be legal tender. Since the supply of Saddam notes increased while the supply of Swiss Dinar notes remained stagnant (even decreased because of torn / damaged notes without replacement), the Swiss Dinar appreciated against the Saddam Dinar notes (which is exactly what "inflation" is that some pumpers absurdly claim "doesn't affect Iraq and thus makes it 'different'"). In fact, the northern part of Iraq (Kurdish) which continued to use Swiss Dinars partly evaded inflation, which ran rampant throughout the rest of the nation. The old Dinar was $3.33 against the $ because it WASN'T inflated. The Saddam Dinar fell below 1100:1 against the $ due to inflation during the economic sanctions (if you can't borrow or trade then you can only print). The $3-4:1 from the 1980's also involved Saddam picking an arbitrary value to peg the Dinar to which is also not the case with the market valued NID today. The reason the Dinar is so weak is because it's overprinted. It really is that simple.

the Iraqi Central Bank have openly stated "re-denomination" multiple times, and "revaluation" not once. Only Dinar salesmen with vested interests are using "RV" over and over whilst the ICB are saying RD (lop) over and over. They do intend to appreciate the Dinar somewhat on top of the RD, yes, but not the 99,000% some people have got confused with (and it won't happen overnight either).

You're also seriously misunderstanding how redenomination works. It doesn't take 99% of wealth away from people, but nor does it magic 99,900% of wealth out of nothing. Purchasing power is retained so businesses don't lose anything. What happens when zero's are lopped is that prices are readjusted to match:-

For example, if current 25k Dinar notes are turned into 25 Dinar notes, prices are adjusted by same. So eg, a 75m Dinar house now becomes a 75k Dinar house. A 1,000 Dinar loaf of bread becomes a 1 Dinar loaf of bread, etc. Look at what happened to Turkey to understand the process better - they lopped 6 zeroes off. Of course Turkish bread was not still priced at 1,000,000 Lira when 1m Lira banknotes changed to 1 Lira, it was repriced down to 1 Lira along with the new banknotes. This is the whole point of a redenomination : get prices of thing (in terms of zeros) back to sanity and parity with other countries which boosts confidence in the currency & economy.

the 3 steps of a redenomination : A redenomination (RD) simply means taking the zeroes out of the economy. Three things are done:-

1. All old banknotes are swapped for new lower denom ones at a fixed ratio (usually 1,000 for ease of exchange) within a fixed time-frame (3 months for prior Iraq banknote swaps). Eg, 25,000 Dinar notes are swapped for 25 Dinars. Iraqi's will change their old for new notes at their banks. The below article explains what happened during Iraq's prior bank-note swap when the "Swiss Dinar" was taken out of circulation in the Kurdish region for good during 2003 and Saddam's face removed from notes. When the time-limit is up, any old notes not exchanged for new are demonetized and become worthless.

It also states in the final two questions : "Q:Can dollars also be exchanged for new Iraqi dinars What will be the conversion rate for dollars?

A:Dollars will not be converted directly into new dinars during the official exchange. Following the exchange, dollars will be convertible directly into new dinars at the market exchange rate" and "Q:Will it be possible to exchange currency outside of Iraq? A:No. The only official currency exchange locations will be located within Iraq":-http://www.exchangerate.com/iraq_currency_exchange.html

2. The currency is adjusted by the same factor for the *new notes only*. Eg, a 1170 vs the $ becomes 1.170 vs the $. You won't be paid $1m for handing in $1k worth of old notes, you'll just be given the equivalent in new notes (1k Dinars at 1.17 in place of 1m Dinars at 1170). This is what confuses many amateur Dinar speculators the most.3. Prices in Dinars are also adjusted by the same factor. Eg, a 75m Dinar house becomes a 75k Dinar house. A 1,000 Dinar loaf of bread becomes 1 Dinar. 250,000 Dinar average rent becomes 250 Dinar rent, etc.

This doesn't have to be in multiples of exactly 1,000, it could be anything. But the PP (Purchasing Power) of *current* notes doesn't change the same way some "pumpers" are hyping it. The Iraqi Central Bank have openly stated the Dinar RD will be "based on Turkey". For those who don't remember Turkey's RD / lop, here's the official brochure explaining it:-

http://www.tcmb.gov.tr/ytlkampanya/bro.php

People weren't given $1m in cash just for holding $1 worth of Old Turkish Lira during their 6-zero RD/lop. And likewise, people won't be given $1m in cash just for holding $1,000 worth of Iraqi Dinar during their 3-digit RD/lop. The Dinar may appreciate in time when their oil exports increase in time and demand for Dinar rises, but not by silly 10,000% figures purported by some dishonest Dinar salesmen preying on FX first-timers.

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.Pudge, You said....................

"If anyone is in any doubt as to what will happen, here are two of Iraq's recent announcements in plain English from the people who are in charge of the whole process"

There is no such thing as a translation of an Iraqi statement in plain english.

Edited by OnTheHorizon
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.Pudge, You said....................

"If anyone is in any doubt as to what will happen, here are two of Iraq's recent announcements in plain English from the people who are in charge of the whole process"

There is no such thing as a translation of an Iraqi statement in plain english.

Good point!! They do need to speak plainer English since everything they say is construed to be an impending RV

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Oops sorry. It is secret. I do most of my reading and typing on my ipad and end up these goofy mispellings. I'm referring to the book called The Secret. There's also a DVD of the same name. The book is basically about positive thoughts with positive actions create positive results. Thanks for asking.

Go RV

Excellent book!! Excellent movie!! I try to live my days like this, wrapped in good expections of a reality for my dreams. These ideas belong here. Thanks for mentioning them. I may rewatch the movie tonight. :)

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Sorry folks you are all waiting for a non event. It is economically and mathematically impossible to RV 1 to 1 against the US dollar. No RV has ever happened that way and that is not how the currency markets work.

The Dinar is more an emotional investment (like "Tulip Mania") than an economic one. People aren't buying because they've sat down and done the impossible maths - they're buying because others encourage them to "not miss out", who in turn are encouraged by others who say the same thing, all in a chain leading back to the pumpers who make their money not holding Dinar - but from getting rid of them!

Just out of curiosity Pudge, why are you hanging around this site and spending so much time/energy on a "non event"?

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I exchanged some emails with Tman today and he didn't answer my questions.

He said 3.68 in the call in show and that the Bushes were slated for a buck ten of it. He said the global settlements have to complete. He said he was a signatory on the settlements.

I know the lies the Bushes, Clintons, Cheneys, Obamas, Bernankes, Greenspans have handed out to the public...

And I don't choose to believe anything they say anymore.

I choose to believe the White Hats know what they are doing until proven otherwise.

Thus far I remain open minded, hopeful, optimistic and know one thing for sure...

the elite made their money by being corrupt and sending young men to die... not because they were brilliant businessmen.

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I exchanged some emails with Tman today and he didn't answer my questions.

He said 3.68 in the call in show and that the Bushes were slated for a buck ten of it. He said the global settlements have to complete. He said he was a signatory on the settlements.

I know the lies the Bushes, Clintons, Cheneys, Obamas, Bernankes, Greenspans have handed out to the public...

And I don't choose to believe anything they say anymore.

I choose to believe the White Hats know what they are doing until proven otherwise.

Thus far I remain open minded, hopeful, optimistic and know one thing for sure...

the elite made their money by being corrupt and sending young men to die... not because they were brilliant businessmen.

Thx for the update EGK. It's very appreciated. Been wondering what was happening

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I exchanged some emails with Tman today and he didn't answer my questions.

He said 3.68 in the call in show and that the Bushes were slated for a buck ten of it. He said the global settlements have to complete. He said he was a signatory on the settlements.

I know the lies the Bushes, Clintons, Cheneys, Obamas, Bernankes, Greenspans have handed out to the public...

And I don't choose to believe anything they say anymore.

I choose to believe the White Hats know what they are doing until proven otherwise.

Thus far I remain open minded, hopeful, optimistic and know one thing for sure...

the elite made their money by being corrupt and sending young men to die... not because they were brilliant businessmen.

3.68 would be fantastic ....it's fun to dream of the possibilities and happiness it would bring [who says money can't buy happiness? it sure can if you're riddled with debt] :rolleyes:

[is it coincidence that 368 is the ISO currency code for Iraq?]

But until some sort of credible evidence comes out [other than the WGS only being talked about/stated on conspiracy theory websites and blogs.. and how numbers got mutated along the way from initially being a $47T lien against the USA, I'm afraid it amounts to nothing more than a "urban legend"

But if, as you said,you exchanged emails and he didn't answer your questions, it leads one to think he's avoiding something.

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Ok thanks, and do these White Hats have any credibility? Correct me if I am wrong, but this sounds like a group of unemployed hippies/wall street protestors with nothing better to do. I cannot imagine Bush and Obama working behind the scenes together so I am not sure how seriously I can take the White Hats. Correct me if I am wrong...

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Wow, THREE DOLLARS AND SIXTY EIGHT CENTS ??????

Well I guess anything is possible!!!!

It's strange that the currency 'value' listed in this rumor and the numeric currency code assigned to it (368) are the same... :blink:

http://www.currency-iso.org/dl_iso_table_a1.xls (for those that have Excel or Excel Viewer)

or

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_4217

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OK, don't understand why you say "a run on the bank". Why would there be a run on the banks from anyone inside or outside Iraq? The RD does not change the value of the Dinar which is what you are saying. An RD is simply for convenience sake and for the future growth of Iraq but the value will remain the same throughout. No RV of any kind!!

"redenomination" means they will remove 3 zeroes from notes. So your 25,000 notes will be exchanged for new 25 notes but at a new ratio of say 1.175:1 instead of 1175:1. You won't lose any money (value is retained minus the trading fees), and in the long run you may make some profit if the Dinar appreciates naturally vs the $, but all these "become a millionaire by changing up $1k worth of Dollars for $1k worth of Dinars" "Dinar pumpers" have been lying and scamming people all along with fake invented "intel", etc. A 99,900% profit has never, ever happened in any RV process. Take a look at what the Turkish Lira (6 zeroes removed), Venezuelan Bolivar (went from 2000:1 to 2:1), the pre-Euro (franc, pesetas, deutschemark, etc) to Euro currency changeover went through to understand the process better.

USA : There are $10.2 trillion (last M3 figures) from a country with a population of 310m people. This works out to approx $32,903 printed per American.

Euro : There are €8.5 trillion in existence (ECB M3 figures) from an entire continent with a Euro-using population of 327m people. This works out to approx €26,000 Euro's printed per European.

Iraq : There are 29 trillion Dinar's in existence from a country with a population of 31m (Iraq). This works out to 935,483 Dinar's printed per Iraqi (blatantly obvious hyperinflation).

If you remove 3 digits, yes you get 29bn Dinar but those Dinar will be valued at say 1.17:1 instead of 1,170:1. The dollar value will not change - just as the Iraq Central Bank have openly stated it won't back in April as reported on Iraqi Alsumaria TV. It's only a few vested interested conmen who just happen to sell Dinar who keep pumping the "instant millionaire" nonsense. If holding just $1k worth of Dinar will make you a millionaire, then by extension, you must believe every Iraqi who owns a house / car will be given between $50m-100m each if they sold it and changed the 50m-100m Dinars up at an FX outlet, and that the average $2k-$4k Iraqi income will become $2m-$4m. Um, no. That's not how it works at all.

Countries can't and don't just magic 99,990% more money into thin air through an RD (re-denomination). The "rumored" value of $3-4 you mention was the value of what were known as "Swiss Dinar's" under Saddam Hussein. They got their name from the Swiss printing plates used (which were of much higher standard than the 3rd hand ones Iraq otherwise had), and this was the currency used prior to the 1990 Gulf War (the first one) after which they ceased to be legal tender. Since the supply of Saddam notes increased while the supply of Swiss Dinar notes remained stagnant (even decreased because of torn / damaged notes without replacement), the Swiss Dinar appreciated against the Saddam Dinar notes (which is exactly what "inflation" is that some pumpers absurdly claim "doesn't affect Iraq and thus makes it 'different'"). In fact, the northern part of Iraq (Kurdish) which continued to use Swiss Dinars partly evaded inflation, which ran rampant throughout the rest of the nation. The old Dinar was $3.33 against the $ because it WASN'T inflated. The Saddam Dinar fell below 1100:1 against the $ due to inflation during the economic sanctions (if you can't borrow or trade then you can only print). The $3-4:1 from the 1980's also involved Saddam picking an arbitrary value to peg the Dinar to which is also not the case with the market valued NID today. The reason the Dinar is so weak is because it's overprinted. It really is that simple.

the Iraqi Central Bank have openly stated "re-denomination" multiple times, and "revaluation" not once. Only Dinar salesmen with vested interests are using "RV" over and over whilst the ICB are saying RD (lop) over and over. They do intend to appreciate the Dinar somewhat on top of the RD, yes, but not the 99,000% some people have got confused with (and it won't happen overnight either).

You're also seriously misunderstanding how redenomination works. It doesn't take 99% of wealth away from people, but nor does it magic 99,900% of wealth out of nothing. Purchasing power is retained so businesses don't lose anything. What happens when zero's are lopped is that prices are readjusted to match:-

For example, if current 25k Dinar notes are turned into 25 Dinar notes, prices are adjusted by same. So eg, a 75m Dinar house now becomes a 75k Dinar house. A 1,000 Dinar loaf of bread becomes a 1 Dinar loaf of bread, etc. Look at what happened to Turkey to understand the process better - they lopped 6 zeroes off. Of course Turkish bread was not still priced at 1,000,000 Lira when 1m Lira banknotes changed to 1 Lira, it was repriced down to 1 Lira along with the new banknotes. This is the whole point of a redenomination : get prices of thing (in terms of zeros) back to sanity and parity with other countries which boosts confidence in the currency & economy.

the 3 steps of a redenomination : A redenomination (RD) simply means taking the zeroes out of the economy. Three things are done:-

1. All old banknotes are swapped for new lower denom ones at a fixed ratio (usually 1,000 for ease of exchange) within a fixed time-frame (3 months for prior Iraq banknote swaps). Eg, 25,000 Dinar notes are swapped for 25 Dinars. Iraqi's will change their old for new notes at their banks. The below article explains what happened during Iraq's prior bank-note swap when the "Swiss Dinar" was taken out of circulation in the Kurdish region for good during 2003 and Saddam's face removed from notes. When the time-limit is up, any old notes not exchanged for new are demonetized and become worthless.

It also states in the final two questions : "Q:Can dollars also be exchanged for new Iraqi dinars What will be the conversion rate for dollars?

A:Dollars will not be converted directly into new dinars during the official exchange. Following the exchange, dollars will be convertible directly into new dinars at the market exchange rate" and "Q:Will it be possible to exchange currency outside of Iraq? A:No. The only official currency exchange locations will be located within Iraq":-http://www.exchangerate.com/iraq_currency_exchange.html

2. The currency is adjusted by the same factor for the *new notes only*. Eg, a 1170 vs the $ becomes 1.170 vs the $. You won't be paid $1m for handing in $1k worth of old notes, you'll just be given the equivalent in new notes (1k Dinars at 1.17 in place of 1m Dinars at 1170). This is what confuses many amateur Dinar speculators the most.3. Prices in Dinars are also adjusted by the same factor. Eg, a 75m Dinar house becomes a 75k Dinar house. A 1,000 Dinar loaf of bread becomes 1 Dinar. 250,000 Dinar average rent becomes 250 Dinar rent, etc.

This doesn't have to be in multiples of exactly 1,000, it could be anything. But the PP (Purchasing Power) of *current* notes doesn't change the same way some "pumpers" are hyping it. The Iraqi Central Bank have openly stated the Dinar RD will be "based on Turkey". For those who don't remember Turkey's RD / lop, here's the official brochure explaining it:-

http://www.tcmb.gov.tr/ytlkampanya/bro.php

People weren't given $1m in cash just for holding $1 worth of Old Turkish Lira during their 6-zero RD/lop. And likewise, people won't be given $1m in cash just for holding $1,000 worth of Iraqi Dinar during their 3-digit RD/lop. The Dinar may appreciate in time when their oil exports increase in time and demand for Dinar rises, but not by silly 10,000% figures purported by some dishonest Dinar salesmen preying on FX first-timers.

Thanks

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Sorry folks you are all waiting for a non event. It is economically and mathematically impossible to RV 1 to 1 against the US dollar. No RV has ever happened that way and that is not how the currency markets work.

The Dinar is more an emotional investment (like "Tulip Mania") than an economic one. People aren't buying because they've sat down and done the impossible maths - they're buying because others encourage them to "not miss out", who in turn are encouraged by others who say the same thing, all in a chain leading back to the pumpers who make their money not holding Dinar - but from getting rid of them!

what do you mean it has never happened that way .......... have you forgotten Kuwait? <_<

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what do you mean it has never happened that way .......... have you forgotten Kuwait? <_<

Have you looked into Kuwait?....it didn't revalue...there has never been a change in currency value in excess of 50% that I can find....and almost all significant adjustments were made during a redenomination.

The complications of a 100,000% change in value are overwhelming and unsustainable.

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