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Central Bank reveals details of the Iraq Currency


Aqua Dude
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xyzzy, you are right. That is true as far as it goes. However, the subject was not whether his investment comments were correct or were based on correct data. That was his topic, true, but it wasn't my topic when I posted my response to him. His brash rudeness was the reason for my reply. The question is why would some absolute stranger who says he has not purchased a single dinar feel he can slam in here and lecture those of us who do own this currency? Having never met us, nor even spoken to us prior to this moment, why would he assume that we have not analyzed this investment? Or didn't know that it might have some risk attached? Why would he think we need his brusk, rude analysis and his expressed opinion that we have made a foolish mistake in buying dinar?

If you were sitting in your financial advisor's office and some strange guy from an office down the street suddenly burst through the door and began telling you that your investments were all wrong, would you not feel that he was out of order? This man claimed that he did not own dinar as though his "wise investment decision" gave him the right to advise those of us who do own it. He blithley ignored the fact that those of us whose knowledge about dinar may have been initially limited have had the good fortune to be able to gather information regarding the dinar from some of the wisest men and women whose words I have ever read. They are the well-informed dinar owners who have chosen to come here and inform the rest of us. And to me, personally, their greatest credential is that they do own dinar. So on this score, actually owning dinar most certainly is relevant.

I agree and I gave your post a plus. The forum is called "DinarVets." "Dinar" because its members are interested in the Iraqi dinar, and "Vets" because of the assumption that the better part of its members actually hold Iraqi dinar. The Colonel has admitted to holding no dinar, so that makes him a veteran of nothing as it pertains to this forum.

Edited by Sanssouci
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I'm not telling anyone what to do with their dinar, I'm just asking people to do their own research and for the pumpers to quit spewing lies that for some reason, many believe. I would argue it's much more like telling someone to be careful buying a car, and to research it thoroughly before their purchase, even though I don't own a car. Is that bad advice?

As I asked before, how does owning dinar make you more of an expert? I clearly stated why I had an interest in this issue and what my motives were for joining this forum.

But back to the issue at hand. Can anyone besides Aqua Dude actually tell me this article is about an RV? The reason I chose this thread to start talking is because I think it's a disservice to twist articles to fit your point of view. Maybe some objectivity will help non-dinar holders to decide whether or not to actually buy. That is my motivation, not to troll, not to anger, not to tell you how to drive, I'm just looking for objectivity so that interested parties are not deceived by the lies or delusions of Aqua Dude and others.

Unfortunately, you have no credibility here, while Aqua Dude does. But he has spent the time here earning his crediblity, while until you burst in here just now trying to tell us all that we were none too bright to be in this investment (rather like your parents, I presume), no one here had ever even heard of you. So I suggest that you not point fingers at someone we all know and respect. You haven't earned the right to do that, either.

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if someone wishes to tell the pumpers to quit spewing lies...perhaps it would be best to go to the pumpers sites and tell them...as Francie and the rest of the gang said...we kinda have enough marbles in place to decide whether we desire to do a little speculating, it is in fact our decision, our money, our responsibility and we may be a little more informed than someone trying to give us uninvited advice...cheers

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I reckon its not smart to go to an anti-meat rally and yell about the beneficial proteins and enzymes the body gets from eating meat....just because the information may or may not be correct, doesn't mean its the right time or place to discuss it

I's thinking thats whats happening here, correct information, but the wrong time/place

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if someone wishes to tell the pumpers to quit spewing lies...perhaps it would be best to go to the pumpers sites and tell them...as Francie and the rest of the gang said...we kinda have enough marbles in place to decide whether we desire to do a little speculating, it is in fact our decision, our money, our responsibility and we may be a little more informed than someone trying to give us uninvited advice...cheers

You're right Tandy! Beside it's fun to speculate, watching this forum is more fun than any television programming. Real characters, real life drama, mystery, action, debates, sex here and there, great food, (lots of bacon) great plot....hmmm and the best part there is a cliffhanger every week.

Did someone say donnydoright is back? ~sigh~ (See... now we even have the makings of a zombie flick, they keep coming back)

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Carrello, there are currently 29 trillion dinars in circulation. There is 10.2 trillion US dollars according to the last M3 figures. This means that an RV of 1.00 would make the Iraqi money supply worth almost 3 times the United States money supply. With roughly %10 of the population of the United States, and an economy 150x smaller, do you believe the Iraqi currency as a whole should be the most powerful currency in the world? As a FIAT currency that is not backed by oil, the oil reserves of the country make no difference to the currency value, remember.

Please explain to me how these numbers would allow Iraq to claim themselves 1,000x more wealthy than they currently are and why any other country would be happy to deal with this change in exchange rate. And I will return your challenge in kind, can you show me hard data that would allow Iraq to support a significant RV? Clearly the currency numbers are more than enough to prove this impossible...

I would suggest the burden of proof that an RV isn't going to happen is on you. When all the evidence suggest that Iraq is going to revalue (RV) its currency. How are you going to feel when this does pay off and you have to tell all those people who you persuaded not to invest in it that you were wrong? Actually, who cares how you feel, how are you going to explain you were wrong to someone that had some cash to spare to invest, and you persuaded them not to? Who are YOU to come in here and crap all over my hopes and dreams because you think its for my own good? I think you just need to be quiet.

-

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I would suggest the burden of proof that an RV isn't going to happen is on you. When all the evidence suggest that Iraq is going to revalue (RV) its currency. How are you going to feel when this does pay off and you have to tell all those people who you persuaded not to invest in it that you were wrong? Actually, who cares how you feel, how are you going to explain you were wrong to someone that had some cash to spare to invest, and you persuaded them not to? Who are YOU to come in here and crap all over my hopes and dreams because you think its for my own good? I think you just need to be quiet.

Reckon if this guy is Donnydoright or Ridewithme38 or Dinarhunter, shouldn't he have already been banned?

Edited by DinarRedneck
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Awesome.

Now, they are adding 3 zeros to your 25,000 dinar notes to make them 25,000,000 notes, while deleting 3 zeros from the exchange rate to make it $.86.

That would make each 25,000 dinar note worth $21,500,000.

'Nuffi said; it just doesn't get any better than this.....

THAT'S FUNNY. I LOVE THE TRANSLATION OF SOME OF THESE ARTICLES. YOU CAN JUST ABOUT TURN IT ANYWAY YOU WANT. I AM GIVING YOU KUDOS BECAUSE THE ARTICLE CAN BE READ LIKE THAT. I AM LAUGHING BEAUSE IT COULD BE READ LIKE THAT. AND NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE HELL IT WILL COME OUT TO BE IN THE END UNTIL THE END HAS COME. GO RV

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Thank you xyzzy for your posts again.

Betty, you are responding with more attacks and not an actual discussion. You start your post claiming I wasn't being attacked, and end it by telling me I have a personality disorder. Apparently I need to have invested in dinar, and now regret my investment to discuss this logically. I clearly stated my intentions of being here, mainly to thank the posters who discuss things with respect and common sense. I do not have to own dinar to know others who have invested, to research this matter, or to discuss it civilly.

Also, I would love to hear who you and others "suspect i am," considering this is the first time I have ever entered the dinar world at all.

Again, I feel I have openly expressed my intentions here but to clarify... I am not trying to dissuade anyone who owns dinar from holding hope in their dream. I'm not here to start arguments or flame wars. I am here to thank the members who post logically, and to point out what I see as obvious fallacies in logic. I do not do this to be a "saint" as someone claimed, I am doing this because I know this site is heavily trafficked, and feel that potential investors should see something other than Aqua Dude claiming every RD article is for an RV. I do this because I can see the trouble blind faith has caused in many lives, and know that some people will invest more than they can afford.

Again, I am not trying to dissuade any dinar holders. My posts are meant to encourage non-investors to research the dinar objectively before spending money on it. I'm sorry if that seems preachy to you, but shouldn't there be a balance on this forum for the many (thousands? more?) people who choose to visit this site before investing? What is the motivation for the alleged "loppers" on this forum?

To Sansoucci: My interest in dinar investment has been going on for many months since I was first introduced to the idea. I find the faith vs. facts argument very interesting. Again, I am not here to discourage current holders, only to level the playing field so that possible future investors aren't tricked by the clear lies and/or delusions of posters such as Aqua Dude

laugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.gif I AM RESPONDING WITH MORE ATTACKS!!!.laugh.giflaugh.gif .....Oh granted you are right.....i didn't discuss, but that was my intention, I expressed an opinion ......oh.....yeah that's that thing you claimed to be doing here.......I did understand that properly...didn't i???? However, After having supposedly trying to level the playing field you then make a personal attack on Aqua Dude.......FAB!! claim you are new ..only 5 posts, and never been here before but right off the bat you attack a respected member of our dinar family. Do you not think that anyone who visits this site or any other would not read all the articles about an R.V. R.D. or LOP? Anybody with even a small amount of common sense would research any investment before entering into the said investment and anyone who doesn't.....more fool them. Now you can claim i have attacked you. But i again have also told you what i think. None of us , as far as i am aware need to have anyone who claims to be a none investor to come here and try to tell us what we should or shouldn't do. As i stated in a previous post....nobody held a gun to our heads and if we feel at any point that we no longer wish to be part of this then i am quite certain there are more than just a few members on this site who would buy our dinar from us. As for the P. D....? everyone has these traits ....even me, but the problem is when the individual shows no remorse for the misery , distress or harm that they cause others.

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how do i put people on ignore?

Go up and click on settings, then click profile, then manage ignored users.

Keep do you believe those news articles are fact, and that Iraq would not lie and deceive people to believe they are going to lop, when in reality they are going to RV, but do not want all these speculators? Do you believe they are being honest when they state they are going to RD and not RV? If you believe those Muslims are being truthful, then you and the rest of these people believing that are very gullible.

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Awesome.

Now, they are adding 3 zeros to your 25,000 dinar notes to make them 25,000,000 notes, while deleting 3 zeros from the exchange rate to make it $.86.

That would make each 25,000 dinar note worth $21,500,000.

'Nuffi said; it just doesn't get any better than this.....

hahaha

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Go up and click on settings, then click profile, then manage ignored users.

Keep do you believe those news articles are fact, and that Iraq would not lie and deceive people to believe they are going to lop, when in reality they are going to RV, but do not want all these speculators? Do you believe they are being honest when they state they are going to RD and not RV? If you believe those Muslims are being truthful, then you and the rest of these people believing that are very gullible.

I don't even trust our news here in the states so how can I trust Iraqs news.

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Go up and click on settings, then click profile, then manage ignored users.

Keep do you believe those news articles are fact, and that Iraq would not lie and deceive people to believe they are going to lop, when in reality they are going to RV, but do not want all these speculators? Do you believe they are being honest when they state they are going to RD and not RV? If you believe those Muslims are being truthful, then you and the rest of these people believing that are very gullible.

Here's what i reckon, if you can't believe any news that comes out of Iraq, how do you believe that it will RV so strongly, i'm towin behind the trailer with this one, i know i'm not smart or educated enough to know either way what they're tryin to say

But yall seem to know it will RV and i reckon i missed the information on why

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Go up and click on settings, then click profile, then manage ignored users.

Keep do you believe those news articles are fact, and that Iraq would not lie and deceive people to believe they are going to lop, when in reality they are going to RV, but do not want all these speculators? Do you believe they are being honest when they state they are going to RD and not RV? If you believe those Muslims are being truthful, then you and the rest of these people believing that are very gullible.

Im not saying they are fact and its the only direction they plan on taking, please understand that....

Only that 1, Im not gonna ignore what they are in fact saying (whether they plan on doing it or not) that they will redenominate aka lop

and 2, that A LOT of the evidence that has been gathered matches what all these articles are reporting...

People say well they arent going to come right out and announce they will RV (which is true) but then turn around and talk about these 000 articles as if its saying that they are going to RV because there is no way to increase the value and purchasing power by redenominating (lop) only with a RV which is false and contradicting. You see where I am going with it? So yes I do chime in a lot on those topics because there is so much confusion as to what its really saying and after being here awhile, and seeing countless statements being made that are complete opposite from the facts, there is a need to try and keep things straightened out. And believe it or not, we have had some of the most informative debates/conversations on threads talking about "deleting the zeros" and redenominating. Much more so then silly rumors that fly across the boards all day. Im here the same reason you are, hoping that we came across a once in a lifetime opportunity and Im hanging on till the bitter end no matter what. I just wont lie to myself, nor tell others simply what they want to hear.

What worries me most about them, since they do stress dislike in regards to currency speculation on the dinar, is that they shut out any outside exchange and close the borders. Do I think thats gonna happen? No....I at least hope not, but that is something I wouldnt put past them.

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So you've been waiting all this time to double, triple your money?

You are here on this website trying to prove your point all because you are invested to hopefully make double your money.....

you SOUND like you have some intelligence, being so, you would know of other options where doubling your money is very easy and you don't have to wait YEARS

this investment wouldn't be concidered diversifying for you, if it was, you wouldn't be posting on a message board, thats for sure, coming from an investor.....im here because im ALL IN, not diversified, call me what you will, i know a good investment when i see one....and im not here looking for 200% and posting info trying to push my point in public view with the frame of mind im gonna make 200% in a couple years

you're funny

I don't think that's fair, Aqua. No one can say absolutely what this will do. We hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. (In all things) For people to say that people who believe a LOP is POSSIBLE should get out, is simply not right IMO. I don't care if you have 25,000 Dinar or 25,000,000. Everyone has a right to decide the time, effort and money that something is worth to THEM.

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I was feeling obligated to respond to Colonel Kurtz, considering I requested his data and analysis, but admittedly not being one that could fully analysis it. But the more I read, I wished I hadn't. As usual it has turned into a pissing contest between the "boys", a contest that no one has won, as of yet.

I can't even read these posts anymore. No wonder we have lost so many good people. And people, like myself, that are not experts on world economics or are currency experts, can only listen and try to figure out who knows what they are talking about. But the rhetoric is so caustic (not by all) that you cannot listen any longer.

We will keep devouring ourselves until we are nothing but a IQD skeleton and nonconsequential. Everybody will ask "where's the beef?" But it left the body and went to another site. Systems typically work best as a whole.

Thanks for responding Kurtz. You have offered up the nourishment this site thrives on. Cannibalism.

We should all be grateful for an investment that fell into our laps and all we did was make a wire transfer to change our lives.

Grace. Grateful. Thanks.

Got to go. I am watching the Martin Luther King, Jr. speeches, and it reminds me of what real struggle and sacrifice is all about.

Edited by Carrello
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Carrello, there are currently 29 trillion dinars in circulation. There is 10.2 trillion US dollars according to the last M3 figures. This means that an RV of 1.00 would make the Iraqi money supply worth almost 3 times the United States money supply. With roughly %10 of the population of the United States, and an economy 150x smaller, do you believe the Iraqi currency as a whole should be the most powerful currency in the world? As a FIAT currency that is not backed by oil, the oil reserves of the country make no difference to the currency value, remember.

Please explain to me how these numbers would allow Iraq to claim themselves 1,000x more wealthy than they currently are and why any other country would be happy to deal with this change in exchange rate.

I would suggest the burden of proof that an RV isn't going to happen is on you. When all the evidence suggest that Iraq is going to revalue (RV) its currency. How are you going to feel when this does pay off and you have to tell all those people who you persuaded not to invest in it that you were wrong? Actually, who cares how you feel, how are you going to explain you were wrong to someone that had some cash to spare to invest, and you persuaded them not to? Who are YOU to come in here and crap all over my hopes and dreams because you think its for my own good? I think you just need to be quiet.

So first you quote CK offering why a huge RV can not happen. Secondly "all evidence suggest that Iraq is going to revalue (RV) its currency"? Really? How many articles have there been that mention 30T dinars becoming 30B? An RV can not accomplish that.

The presumption or default case should I think be that they will do nothing out of the ordinary. A RV of the size contemplated (i.e. even to a dime) would be unprecedented in the history of the world so taking that as the assumed course for the purposes of debate seems rather one sided. An RD is also certainly not an ordinary event, but they have at least been done many times so its a well known and understood process. The burden of proof is on anyone making a claim of something out of the ordinary happening.

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I don't think that's fair, Aqua. No one can say absolutely what this will do. We hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. (In all things) For people to say that people who believe a LOP is POSSIBLE should get out, is simply not right IMO. I don't care if you have 25,000 Dinar or 25,000,000. Everyone has a right to decide the time, effort and money that something is worth to THEM.

There is a world of difference between hoping for the best while admitting that a lop could occur and talking about nothing but a lop. The latter, I believe, is what defines a "lopster."

Edited by Sanssouci
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There is a world of difference between hoping for the best while admitting that a lop could occur and talking about nothing but a lop. The latter, I believe, is what defines a "lopster."

You might be right, from your perspective. I remember reading a post once where someone said that a LOPster was someone who WANTED to see a LOP, which is just silly.

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You might be right, from your perspective. I remember reading a post once where someone said that a LOPster was someone who WANTED to see a LOP, which is just silly.

No, that is either a masochist or an avid fan of schadenfreude.

Edited by Sanssouci
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Im not saying they are fact and its the only direction they plan on taking, please understand that....

Only that 1, Im not gonna ignore what they are in fact saying (whether they plan on doing it or not) that they will redenominate aka lop

and 2, that A LOT of the evidence that has been gathered matches what all these articles are reporting...

People say well they arent going to come right out and announce they will RV (which is true) but then turn around and talk about these 000 articles as if its saying that they are going to RV because there is no way to increase the value and purchasing power by redenominating (lop) only with a RV which is false and contradicting. You see where I am going with it? So yes I do chime in a lot on those topics because there is so much confusion as to what its really saying and after being here awhile, and seeing countless statements being made that are complete opposite from the facts, there is a need to try and keep things straightened out. And believe it or not, we have had some of the most informative debates/conversations on threads talking about "deleting the zeros" and redenominating. Much more so then silly rumors that fly across the boards all day. Im here the same reason you are, hoping that we came across a once in a lifetime opportunity and Im hanging on till the bitter end no matter what. I just wont lie to myself, nor tell others simply what they want to hear.

What worries me most about them, since they do stress dislike in regards to currency speculation on the dinar, is that they shut out any outside exchange and close the borders. Do I think thats gonna happen? No....I at least hope not, but that is something I wouldnt put past them.

Will a re-denomination (lop) increase value or purchasing power? Yes... Because "One dinar" will buy more items in the market post re-denomination rather than prior. But, will the average Iraqi be able to go out and buy more items at the market with their 25,000 dinar note post re-denomination in comparison to prior? No.... They'll buy the 'same' items... And right there, is the problem. How is a re-denomination going to help a local economy if people are still poor, can not buy more products in the market, and if anything adds stress to locals with dealing with multiple currencies & prices? A re-denomination is not going to help bring back wealth to the people. If anything, it'll put an end to people speculating on their currency. It will really keep a status quo situation to their country & economy with the addition of adding a new currency with lower denominations and other stressful issues to overcome by every citizen.

To correctly view how a re-denomination works in the terms we fear will happen. You have to imagine that their money is like a very large PIE. Each slice represents an amount of dinar. To simplify it, lets say a pie represents 200,000 dinar. The pie is sliced up into 8 individual slices of equal size. Each slice is a 25,000 note. A re-denomination has it so the numerical face value of the pie is reduced to 200. Each slice becomes 25 instead of 25,000. If you hold one slice, it still feeds you the same whether it has a 25,000 value or a 25 value. So, if your struggling to survive off of one slice of pie, after a re-denomination your going to continue to struggle to survive off of that one piece of pie after a re-denomination. Your still being fed exactly the same amount.

What are some advantages of the re-denomination? Well, it brings down the monetary face value of all bills in circulation (including digital currency). It makes accounting easier. It makes the exchange rate more appealing on a psychological level. This may push foreign investors to believe their economy is stronger. But, we're simply talking about a MONETARY ILLUSION.

All of us here know that their exchange rate is not going to be stronger, just that a re-denomination is the result of it. Now, some people would claim it would be easier for the average Iraqi to use in the market as they'll be able to count, add, subtract numbers without the zeros. Which would make sense, for those that use the smaller notes (i.e., 50, 250).. So, it may reduce dollarization to a 'degree.' I would argue it won't eliminate it unless the dinar become internationally recognized & traded. Why? Because a Dollar can be used nearly anywhere.. Using a dinar outside of Iraq requires exchange.

Does this mean we need to see a huge R/V, like we all hope & dream? No, it means one thing the CBI should do is look to do 2 things... 1.) Create an incentive to use the IQD over the USD. This should help pull USD from their economy which should help back the IQD and create a higher demand. 2.) Help put wealth back into the pockets of the Iraqi citizen... This will help them become more patriotic, have faith in both the CBI & GOI, and may reduce the following: Unemployment, terrorism, poverty... While increasing the following: Private sector, available jobs, stability, & security.

Reducing what I mentioned above & also increasing what I mentioned above will make their region more appealing to foreign investors... The numbers they decide to go with (i.e., rate, dates) will impact on how their economy will move forward. Zero additional wealth to the people will be more status quo while a large portion of additional wealth to the people will draw in more foreign investors.

So, if they R/D, other investment opportunities in that area may take a much longer time than anticipated to pull any returns.... A R/V (whether small, modest, or large) will have a faster impact & return.

Just my $0.02

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Will a re-denomination (lop) increase value or purchasing power? Yes... Because "One dinar" will buy more items in the market post re-denomination rather than prior. But, will the average Iraqi be able to go out and buy more items at the market with their 25,000 dinar note post re-denomination in comparison to prior? No.... They'll buy the 'same' items... And right there, is the problem. How is a re-denomination going to help a local economy if people are still poor, can not buy more products in the market, and if anything adds stress to locals with dealing with multiple currencies & prices? A re-denomination is not going to help bring back wealth to the people. If anything, it'll put an end to people speculating on their currency. It will really keep a status quo situation to their country & economy with the addition of adding a new currency with lower denominations and other stressful issues to overcome by every citizen.

I am sure you realize this, but unfortunately the article does not state that the change will have an immediate effect of increased purchasing power. It states that the change will 'lead to' increased purchasing power.

We can all imagine that the Iraqi citizens would like to see it happen that way. But given the manner of how the GOI has acted towards their people and their welfare, do we really think that they give enough of a squat about them to make such a change?

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I don't think that's fair, Aqua. No one can say absolutely what this will do. We hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. (In all things) For people to say that people who believe a LOP is POSSIBLE should get out, is simply not right IMO. I don't care if you have 25,000 Dinar or 25,000,000. Everyone has a right to decide the time, effort and money that something is worth to THEM.

i never told anyone to get out of their position, don't read into things and assume what im talking about, take for face value what i say

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