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Bambino3

Chapter VII -

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We have heard that Iraq is still under Chap VII - This is one of the 4 blockades to an RV. The other 3 are 1. HCL law 2. Erbil Agreement 3. Security Minister

Let's just talk about Chap VII. Can anyone answer the following, and can we dispense with the non-sensical sarcastic answers that really provide no one with anything worthwhile.

1. Why is Iraq in Chap VII

2. Does that preclude them from having a tradeable currency

3. Who is keeping them in Chap VII - It can not be Kuwait. That makes no sense. That invasion by Saddam was 20 years ago.

We read all the supposed facts and questions about Iraq and we are told about Chap VII, but there should be a link somewhere that explains it. Maybe it is all rumor and assumptions. But, up until now, I see no more specific data that relates the release of Iraq's Chap VII to be a Quid pro quo for the revaluation of their currency. The whole concept is no better than Okie's prediction that "Today is different" because I'll bet that 90% of us know nothing of the specifics. So, this is intended for the ten percenters that have solid knowledge and want to inform the multitude of the uninformed dinarians.

My take - the revaluation has to do with politics - greed - timing - logistics. All the other issues are smoke screens.

Edited by Bambino3
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my take....for what its worth....kinda like a test.... 1 they were released from most of chapter 7 how it works im not sure But the outstanding issues were kuwait border demarcations...kuwait missing persons and artifacts...could be more!!!! 2 some say yes some say no.....Some say Shabibi can do it cuz hes not underGOI jurisdiction...3 the UN

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We have heard that Iraq is still under Chap VII - This is one of the 4 blockades to an RV. The other 3 are 1. HCL law 2. Erbil Agreement 3. Security Minister

Let's just talk about Chap VII. Can anyone answer the following, and can we dispense with the non-sensical sarcastic answers that really provide no one with anything worthwhile.

1. Why is Iraq in Chap VII

2. Does that preclude them from having a tradeable currency

3. Who is keeping them in Chap VII - It can not be Kuwait. That makes no sense. That invasion by Saddam was 20 years ago.

We read all the supposed facts and questions about Iraq and we are told about Chap VII, but there should be a link somewhere that explains it. Maybe it is all rumor and assumptions. But, up until now, I see no more specific data that relates the release of Iraq's Chap VII to be a Quid pro quo for the revaluation of their currency. The whole concept is no better than Okie's prediction that "Today is different" because I'll bet that 90% of us know nothing of the specifics. So, this is intended for the ten percenters that have solid knowledge and want to inform the multitude of the uninformed dinarians.

My take - the revaluation has to do with politics - greed - timing - logistics. All the other issues are smoke screens.

I also feel with the amount spent on this from the U.S. side another and I feel more important issue is that they all get along somewhat for a extended period of time before this will actually take place. I cant imagine and RV and losing everything all have worked for if they are able to fall into civil war and more killings. Just my thoughts.

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IF Shabibi and the CBI are NOT under the dictatorship of the GOI - then in MMHO - I believe they can RV at any time now. I feel that this can't go on much longer with a 1170 rate. If it goes on too much longer (months) - I don't think it will EVER come to fruition. This is just my take on it. With all the money other countries are investing in Iraq, I can't believe it hasn't happened already... I mean I CAN believe it --- cause it hasn't happened yet -- but.. well.. you know what I mean :unsure:

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We have heard that Iraq is still under Chap VII - This is one of the 4 blockades to an RV. The other 3 are 1. HCL law 2. Erbil Agreement 3. Security Minister

Let's just talk about Chap VII. Can anyone answer the following, and can we dispense with the non-sensical sarcastic answers that really provide no one with anything worthwhile.

1. Why is Iraq in Chap VII

2. Does that preclude them from having a tradeable currency

3. Who is keeping them in Chap VII - It can not be Kuwait. That makes no sense. That invasion by Saddam was 20 years ago.

We read all the supposed facts and questions about Iraq and we are told about Chap VII, but there should be a link somewhere that explains it. Maybe it is all rumor and assumptions. But, up until now, I see no more specific data that relates the release of Iraq's Chap VII to be a Quid pro quo for the revaluation of their currency. The whole concept is no better than Okie's prediction that "Today is different" because I'll bet that 90% of us know nothing of the specifics. So, this is intended for the ten percenters that have solid knowledge and want to inform the multitude of the uninformed dinarians.

My take - the revaluation has to do with politics - greed - timing - logistics. All the other issues are smoke screens.

Hello and thank you for your post. I might be speaking through my teeth here, with no direction nor relevance, however, I googled "Chapter 8" and this is what I received:

http://www.un-documents.net/ch-08.htm

I hope this helps and does not just open another bottleneck here. :) GLTY and all. Go RV.

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Think about it like a person on welfare that doesn't want to work.Does Iraq really want to be out of chapter 7 when they benefit from all of the freebee programs and the rebuilding programs.Loan programs.And they aren't really restricted from trading except when it comes to weapons.If I were Iraq I would stay in chapter 7 until it was beneficial for me to be out.

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Let's play nice for a moment......

Cause I'm sure a lot of us have had the same questions pop in our heads!

I couldn't find any specifics on restricting the value of the currency, I mean hell its been able to drop and rise all during the sanction period no problem....so why wouldn't it be restricting it now?

I mean the whole program rate of 1170 is probly a whole different story that also doesn't have any relation with the sanctions placed on them but hey I could be wrong.....

I always thought that the program rate was set and can be released from that through the CBI.....I can't quite recall where I saw that though....

The whole thing about kuwait and ch7 is about them finishing one of the requirements before they can fully exit CH7 which is about the border agreements between the two so I guess its really Iraq and Kuwait that are holding up ch7.....

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my take....for what its worth....kinda like a test.... 1 they were released from most of chapter 7 how it works im not sure But the outstanding issues were kuwait border demarcations...kuwait missing persons and artifacts...could be more!!!! 2 some say yes some say no.....Some say Shabibi can do it cuz hes not underGOI jurisdiction...3 the UN

I have not done original research on this, so I could easily be wrong, but my understanding is that Ch7 was imposed by the UN when Saddam invaded Kuwait. That issue has not been entirely resolved, but the UN let Iraq out of all of the CH7 except that they cannot have WMDs, so they can't protect themselves. And the UN intends to keep this part of CH7 in force until Iraq pays off everything it owes to Kuwait. Iraq needs WMDs because, without them, they can't protect themselves from Iran, the bully next door who is drooling to get into Iraq and take over their oil and other natural wealth, and who does have WMDs. Not to mention that Iran would love to yank this fledgling democracy, Iraq, back into the 7th century.

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Actually you almost or partly got it right! There's a dispute between IRAQ and Kuwait over the port! that is a stickey wicked that needs to be resolved....................! B)

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I have not done original research on this, so I could easily be wrong, but my understanding is that Ch7 was imposed by the UN when Saddam invaded Kuwait. That issue has not been entirely resolved, but the UN let Iraq out of all of the CH7 except that they cannot have WMDs, so they can't protect themselves. And the UN intends to keep this part of CH7 in force until Iraq pays off everything it owes to Kuwait. Iraq needs WMDs because, without them, they can't protect themselves from Iran, the bully next door who is drooling to get into Iraq and take over their oil and other natural wealth, and who does have WMDs. Not to mention that Iran would love to yank this fledgling democracy, Iraq, back into the 7th century.

It is an interesting argument don't you think Francie that if indeed the US leaves only 3,000 military in Iraq soon they can appeal to the UN they need to protect themselves. In that the UN might release them to enable them to buy the necessary military equipment to do so. Iran is breathing down their backs and the UN and all countries to invest in Iraq do not want Iran to come to town. It is rather ironic when I think about it. Perhaps this reducing the US troops is a round about way to give them release from Chpt 7.

However, HCL is vital because oil is going to pay their bills imo.

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We have heard that Iraq is still under Chap VII - This is one of the 4 blockades to an RV. The other 3 are 1. HCL law 2. Erbil Agreement 3. Security Minister

Let's just talk about Chap VII. Can anyone answer the following, and can we dispense with the non-sensical sarcastic answers that really provide no one with anything worthwhile.

1. Why is Iraq in Chap VII

The sanctions were imposed against Baghdad after executed Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein's army

invaded Kuwait in 1990. The United Nations then banned Iraq from importing chemical and nuclear technology.

The original stated purposes of the sanctions were to compel Iraq to withdraw from Kuwait, to pay reparations and to disclose and eliminate any weapons of mass destruction.

Initially the UN Security Council imposed stringent economic sanctions on Iraq through by adopting and enforcing United Nations Security Council Resolution 661.[4]

After the end of the 1991 Gulf War, those sanctions were extended and elaborated on, including linkage to removal of weapons of mass destruction (WMD), by

Resolution 687.[5][6] The sanctions banned all trade and financial resources except for medicine and "in humanitarian circumstances" foodstuffs.[4]

All the sanctions list

From Dec. 2010 article

Additional article from Dec. 2010: UNSC lifts remaining sanctions on Iraq

"In a statement read out on behalf of the 15 members, Council President US Vice-President Joe Biden, called on Iraq to "quickly fulfill its remaining obligations under the relevant

Chapter VII Security Council resolutions pertaining to the situation between Iraq and Kuwait.

The Council also welcomed progress made by the Governments of the two countries towards the resolution of the outstanding issues, and encouraged their further cooperation."

2. Does that preclude them from having a tradeable currency

As far as I am aware, they do not need a tradeable currency although certainly it would be

beneficial to Iraqs growth. Here is a few links worth review: The Benefits of the New Iraqi Dinar

Old article, still relevant when compared to current conditions and questions:

Should Iraq Dollarize, Adopt a Currency Board or Let Its Currency Float?

3. Who is keeping them in Chap VII - It can not be Kuwait. That makes no sense. That invasion by Saddam was 20 years ago.

IRAQ: U.N. Sanctions

The above is a summation from 2003 via the CFR

Current Iraq regional info.

Although the UNSC has brought to an end a number of measures adopted during the Saddam Hussein era, it has not removed all sanctions in relation to Iraq.

It would appear the remaining issues do largely involve Kuwait and it is Iraq dragging their feet or desiring extensions, which is mostly political games.

We read all the supposed facts and questions about Iraq and we are told about Chap VII, but there should be a link somewhere that explains it. Maybe it is all rumor and assumptions. But, up until now, I see no more specific data that relates the release of Iraq's Chap VII to be a Quid pro quo for the revaluation of their currency. The whole concept is no better than Okie's prediction that "Today is different" because I'll bet that 90% of us know nothing of the specifics. So, this is intended for the ten percenters that have solid knowledge and want to inform the multitude of the uninformed dinarians.

My take - the revaluation has to do with politics - greed - timing - logistics. All the other issues are smoke screens.

Hi Bambino3 :)

All good questions, I reviewed a few links that may help a little. My eyes are tired,

it has been a long day, but I wanted to try and help, although very insufficient, at least

it is verifiable data and not bogus details. Some current , some old, all relevant.

There has been good progress, truth is, Iraq is not ready, in my opinion, and *must* focus

on infrastructure rebuilding, LESS imports and a much larger GDP in order to even consider

any form of a substantial revaluation. These are basic economics, but somehow Iraq has been

hyped into something it isn't, claims somehow this one country will solve the worlds financial

problems which is not possible, but it has become the mantra within the dinar cult.

They need more time, and I sincerely hope they find their way before they implode within the

remainder of a very tense and fragile middle east. I would like to see them actually reach a

point that their citizens have reliable electricity! Personally, I find so much of what is claimed

regarding Iraq to be simply sad and fiction that has become accepted as fact, but to even say

such things starts such a childish banter and battle, it is not worth trying to discuss.

I apologize for not going into more detail, the brain is not up to it at this time, and I have NO desire to

engage in hype, as I am sure you do not either, but it will most likely end that way. :(

All my best!

Jim

---

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From what I understand, as far as the monetary aspect, in order for Iraq to move into chapter VIII, they must have an internationally traded currence and that currency should be the primary currency of the country.

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I have not done original research on this, so I could easily be wrong, but my understanding is that Ch7 was imposed by the UN when Saddam invaded Kuwait. That issue has not been entirely resolved, but the UN let Iraq out of all of the CH7 except that they cannot have WMDs, so they can't protect themselves. And the UN intends to keep this part of CH7 in force until Iraq pays off everything it owes to Kuwait. Iraq needs WMDs because, without them, they can't protect themselves from Iran, the bully next door who is drooling to get into Iraq and take over their oil and other natural wealth, and who does have WMDs. Not to mention that Iran would love to yank this fledgling democracy, Iraq, back into the 7th century.

Hello and thank you for your post.

I dissagree. Iraq will never have WMD, ever, since we, America, will never go through this again with Iraq. IMMHO, Iraq will become a commercial state and nation but never a fighting power. I believe that they will become something similar to Costa Rica, with their own national guard but with Zillions more in value. The US, UK, Spain (The big 3 of the Iraqi Freedom War) and others will protect their interests and perhaps values that have been implemented in Iraq. GLTY and all. Go RV.

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It is an interesting argument don't you think Francie that if indeed the US leaves only 3,000 military in Iraq soon they can appeal to the UN they need to protect themselves. In that the UN might release them to enable them to buy the necessary military equipment to do so. Iran is breathing down their backs and the UN and all countries to invest in Iraq do not want Iran to come to town. It is rather ironic when I think about it. Perhaps this reducing the US troops is a round about way to give them release from Chpt 7.

However, HCL is vital because oil is going to pay their bills imo.

JMO, but I am not sure the US or UN are too worried about Iran at the moment. As long as Iraq remains under Chapter 7 protection, the US forces of the Fifth Fleet will most likely be a constant reminder to Iran that anything other than their petty border skirmishes would probably constitute a very bad idea.

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Hi bambino

I thought I read in one of the reports that it would not be in Iraq's best interest to revalue their currency until their debts are paid or forgiven....if they owe Kuwait say 20 billion dinars it would make more sense to pay 20 billion dinars @1170 value as opposed to 20 billion dinars @ say 1 dollar or even 3.62 per dinar value.....this was my take from one of the reports of the CBI or IMF.....their debts must be cleared especially chapter 7 before they RV.....this is the main reason or proof for my investment....we will see an RV :D

Dame

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It is an interesting argument don't you think Francie that if indeed the US leaves only 3,000 military in Iraq soon they can appeal to the UN they need to protect themselves. In that the UN might release them to enable them to buy the necessary military equipment to do so. Iran is breathing down their backs and the UN and all countries to invest in Iraq do not want Iran to come to town. It is rather ironic when I think about it. Perhaps this reducing the US troops is a round about way to give them release from Chpt 7.

However, HCL is vital because oil is going to pay their bills imo.

Yes, actually that's a very interesting argument. I tend to look at the minutiae however, and I would also be concerned about the gap--the time after we leave, but before the UN took action, when Iran could make their move. I can't believe Iran wouldn't be ready for such a moment since they've been preparing to get into Iraq and take over for years now. And I think we may be underestimating Syria at such a moment as well. Also I don't trust the UN to provide timely "action" either. There is no guarantee the UN would do anything at all just because we left Iraq and basically left them exposed. The US recently sold Iraq 30+ military jet aircraft (I think it was 36), but I haven't heard of tanks, military Humvees, or other ground vehicles or any ground weaponry sold or given to Iraq. An Iraqi military needs to be properly trained and armed before we leave, which we have been doing for quite a long time now, but I haven't heard of whether or not they are actually ready to defend their country from an enemy like Iran. Also Iran has nukes, and so far, Iraq has none. I would think Iraq would need to be armed in this way as well, if for no other reason than the fear factor, the deterrent it would provide. That would also require a lot of highly specialized training, a huge step into this century for some Iraqis. But first, it would also require a release from the UN. This has, thus, become a circular discussion, and we are back at where we began.

Another point--I hope Shabibi is in good health. His words sounded confused and garbled when I read what he said in the radio (or was that television?) interview in Iraq yesterday. At this point, Shabibi has become the "essential man" in Iraq. Somebody has to stand up to Maliki, and it looks like it will have to be Shabibi.

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I think the consensus here is clear and I thank everyone for their response. To me, it is very likely that Iraq does not need to be out of Chap VII to revalue their currency. It may actually be the other way around. If it is a border issue, a GPS could resolve that and a big piece of chalk. Then, everyone moves their camels to the right side of the line. It is not the Port of Mubarek as that is a recent development. WMD - no WMD's and if they had them, they would need a big sling shot.

Conclusion: Chapter VII is not a factor in the RV process. Now, maybe somebody could look into the remaining roadblocks, like HCL, etc.. Thanks for some great input.

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I think the consensus here is clear and I thank everyone for their response. To me, it is very likely that Iraq does not need to be out of Chap VII to revalue their currency. It may actually be the other way around. If it is a border issue, a GPS could resolve that and a big piece of chalk. Then, everyone moves their camels to the right side of the line. It is not the Port of Mubarek as that is a recent development. WMD - no WMD's and if they had them, they would need a big sling shot.

Conclusion: Chapter VII is not a factor in the RV process. Now, maybe somebody could look into the remaining roadblocks, like HCL, etc.. Thanks for some great input.

There is some indication (posted on this site) that the HLC law passed in Iraq today.

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I think the consensus here is clear and I thank everyone for their response. To me, it is very likely that Iraq does not need to be out of Chap VII to revalue their currency. It may actually be the other way around. If it is a border issue, a GPS could resolve that and a big piece of chalk. Then, everyone moves their camels to the right side of the line. It is not the Port of Mubarek as that is a recent development. WMD - no WMD's and if they had them, they would need a big sling shot.

Conclusion: Chapter VII is not a factor in the RV process. Now, maybe somebody could look into the remaining roadblocks, like HCL, etc.. Thanks for some great input.

Bambino, I hear what you are saying about the border; frustrating.

The lines of demarcation are already fairly well defined by the U NSC.

What is needed is for Maliki to send them an official communicae acknowledging them.

If I remember correctly, this is all the UNSC has been waiting on for the last four months.

The UNAMI is still funding the search for remains, and artifacts, and is still making progress. It is not known if they will renew the funding, but that seems to be a separate and contained issue.

It all falls back on Maliki, and he thinks they can bluster their way out of acknowledging Kuwait's borders, just like he feels he can continue to ignore the Kurdish requirements; which originated from the previous dictator refusing to acknowledge that Kirkuk belonged to Kurdistan.

I am not big on dictatorships, but at least Saddam kept his people fed..

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I am not big on dictatorships, but at least Saddam kept his people fed..

And what he could not feed and keep under his thumb he gassed or shot and buried!

There is no benefits to the people when their leader is a dictator.

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Yes, actually that's a very interesting argument. I tend to look at the minutiae however, and I would also be concerned about the gap--the time after we leave, but before the UN took action, when Iran could make their move. I can't believe Iran wouldn't be ready for such a moment since they've been preparing to get into Iraq and take over for years now. And I think we may be underestimating Syria at such a moment as well. Also I don't trust the UN to provide timely "action" either. There is no guarantee the UN would do anything at all just because we left Iraq and basically left them exposed. The US recently sold Iraq 30+ military jet aircraft (I think it was 36), but I haven't heard of tanks, military Humvees, or other ground vehicles or any ground weaponry sold or given to Iraq. An Iraqi military needs to be properly trained and armed before we leave, which we have been doing for quite a long time now, but I haven't heard of whether or not they are actually ready to defend their country from an enemy like Iran. Also Iran has nukes, and so far, Iraq has none. I would think Iraq would need to be armed in this way as well, if for no other reason than the fear factor, the deterrent it would provide. That would also require a lot of highly specialized training, a huge step into this century for some Iraqis. But first, it would also require a release from the UN. This has, thus, become a circular discussion, and we are back at where we began.

Another point--I hope Shabibi is in good health. His words sounded confused and garbled when I read what he said in the radio (or was that television?) interview in Iraq yesterday. At this point, Shabibi has become the "essential man" in Iraq. Somebody has to stand up to Maliki, and it looks like it will have to be Shabibi.

I could have missed something, but I have not heard of Iran having nukes. They have instituted a nuclear power program, which the spent fuel rods used could be used to make nuclear weapons. There was a lot of concern over that for a period of time. From what I remember reading there were supposedly some agreements, procedures or something for all the spent fuel rods to be returned to Russia. Whether that is actually happening, we will have to just keep watching.

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The fact that Iran has or does not have WMD's (nukes) is irrelevant. The United States has nukes in Turkey and Iran is easily hit from there. Iraq will never be allowed to arm themselves with nukes. It just won't happen. Iran, unless they completely lose their minds, will not invade Iraq. The US will never allow this. Now, is it possible that the US is pulling troops from Iraq in hopes that Iran will do something stupid which will give the US and UN reason to take them out? Ummm....maybe. Nothing, including civil war, will be allowed to threaten our new shining democracy in the ME.

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The fact that Iran has or does not have WMD's (nukes) is irrelevant. The United States has nukes in Turkey and Iran is easily hit from there. Iraq will never be allowed to arm themselves with nukes. It just won't happen. Iran, unless they completely lose their minds, will not invade Iraq. The US will never allow this. Now, is it possible that the US is pulling troops from Iraq in hopes that Iran will do something stupid which will give the US and UN reason to take them out? Ummm....maybe. Nothing, including civil war, will be allowed to threaten our new shining democracy in the ME.

I agree with you completely!

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Hi everyone. One of the misunderstandings of Chapter 7, from the very beginning, is that most Americans hear chapter 7 and they think of bankruptcy. This is not that kind of chapter 7 folks. The United Nations has a list of sanctions that they use to keep countries in line. These "sanctions" are referred to as "chapters" with a number attached to them. Iraq was under the control of a number of sanctions that were imposed by the U.N. Chapter 7 Sanctions was only a part of these sanctions. If you go to the U.N.'s website, you can navigate to a section that describes each sanction by chapter and number. For the longest time, I was confused by this also until I realized that Bankruptcy is a priveledge bestowed upon American Citizens when they get into financial trouble. It is a federal section of American law. Iraq doesn't have that priveledge. So I started doing research and found my mistake. It certainly sounds like bankruptcy, but it is not. Hope this helps to clear things up.

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